2021 Bills ST coach Heath Farwell joins the Jags

[Rubes]

So glad to be able to rehash the final kickoff again.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

At some point you need fresh perspectives and it's almost like McDermott lives in his own little bubble and looking for mindless lackeys to do as their told.

 

There's a whole other world in the NFL landscape besides Orchard Park and the Carolina Panthers organization in terms of finding player and coaching talent.

What are you talking about? At some point when? I don't even know if you're serious or joking.

 

Put names out there if you're serious. Don't complain just to complain. Add some insight.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[par73]

Don't know if this was a firing, or if he left. He had nothing to do with the 13 second defense, and if the kickoff call somehow got mixed-up, that wasn't an execution issue, as we've been told, but rather one of communication (lack thereof).

[Warcodered]

44 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Seems like a weak move by McDermott to promote from within when you are trying to fix a problem.

and just like that it has the @FilthyBeast seal of approval.

[Coach Tuesday]

23 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

You really feel this way? If anything I think he favors special teams too much with some of his roster decisions (both 53 and game day). If you mean from a coaching perspective, hard to disagree. Some of the ST coaches haven’t been of the highest pedigree. 

I’m not super optimistic about their communication issues being fixed with first-time coordinators at OC and ST.  Could they work out?  Sure.

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I’m not super optimistic about their communication issues being fixed with first-time coordinators at OC and ST.  Could they work out?  Sure.

 

It should be addressed by McD.  He might have assumed Farwell knew enough to tell Bass.

[YoloinOhio]

37 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I mean he's been an assistant for years. What were your choices?

Yeah he’s been with McDermott since 2017 

[Back2Buff]

Didn't someone post a rumor about this like right after the loss?

 

There was some other stuff in that post and want to read the other stuff now, lol

[stevewin]

51 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Congrats Matt.  Please use the "Doctor's Creed" in your ST coaching.

"First do no harm".  I mean this not only from the squib kick controversy.

 

I have always believed in solid, safe, ST play trumps trying to have big plays on STs.

There is way too much turnover of players on ST so teach them to be smart first.

One thing is likely - before every kickoff Matt Smiley will make damn sure that the kicker knows where to kick the ball

[colin]

two losses on special teams super blunders.  blocked punt vs pittz, 13 second massacre vs KC.  he gotta go!

[BillsVet]

3 hours ago, Process said:

Was his contract up or did they fire him?

 

Both

[DCbillsfan]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

When everyone Immediately went silent the next day I figured no one is going to be "outed". On a kickoff that critical,  Sean should've done what Belichick would do. Gather your entire ST including Bass at the sidelines and tell them yourself exactly what you wanted. Not rely on someone screwing up a communication to Farwell. And yes McD should've told Frazier exactly what coverage he wanted.  

I honestly believe McD will be more involved going forward.  He'll do what Belichick does as you mentioned.  He'll become the absolute focal point inside 2 minutes of halftime and end of game.

[Blank Stare]

34 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I’m not super optimistic about their communication issues being fixed with first-time coordinators at OC and ST.  Could they work out?  Sure.

Fair concern.  

[DCbillsfan]

25 minutes ago, stevewin said:

One thing is likely - before every kickoff Matt Smiley will make damn sure that the kicker knows where to kick the ball

Yep.  Right up there with death and taxes.

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Rubes said:

So glad to be able to rehash the final kickoff again.

 

At least he probably won’t be in that situation anytime soon with the Jags 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

I mean why wouldn't the BIlls call timeout in that situation then to make sure they were on the same page??  Unless they cannot call a TO before the kickoff

I don’t know the rules around timeouts and kickoffs, but if McD thought they had the communication worked out in advance, he would have no reason to believe he needed to call one

[MWK]

3 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

At some point you need fresh perspectives and it's almost like McDermott lives in his own little bubble and looking for mindless lackeys to do as their told.

 

There's a whole other world in the NFL landscape besides Orchard Park and the Carolina Panthers organization in terms of finding player and coaching talent.

 

Exactly! We already passed over this guy once when we hired Farwell, what makes him such a good candidate now?

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Didn't someone post a rumor about this like right after the loss?

 

There was some other stuff in that post and want to read the other stuff now, lol

Yes it said farwell was “resigning” - which i took to mean he was being told to explore his options 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Process said:

Was his contract up or did they fire him?

 

My guess is the latter, but that he was told to "explore your other options"

 

That's how Andy Reid fired McDermott - he told him he was going to be "relieved of his duties" but they kept it quiet while  McD got the job with the Panthers

 

3 hours ago, par73 said:

Don't know if this was a firing, or if he left. He had nothing to do with the 13 second defense, and if the kickoff call somehow got mixed-up, that wasn't an execution issue, as we've been told, but rather one of communication (lack thereof).

 

I think McDermott would consider communication part of "execution", it's just a little bit scummy to leave it there as many people interpret "execution" as pointing at the players

[34-78-83]

4 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Here's proof that the speculation regarding Bass not getting the squib memo was likely true. 

 

That proof has existed since Cover1 created the youtube all-22 Film review a day or 2 after the game and pointed out the kick coverage players reaction as the ball sailed over their heads and into the endzone.

[bubba2018]

Can we all just remember the glorious mess that was Isaiah McKenzie’s fumble vs the Colts.

[Stuartjohn]

7 hours ago, TheProcess said:

That Chiefs kick off cost him. You aren’t cutting Bass to make a point (nor should they), so the ST coach is the fall guy. As long as they don’t drag Danny Crossman back here, I’m good with it. 

He cost us the Super Bowl%! Let him bleed in Jax good for him!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

I mean why wouldn't the BIlls call timeout in that situation then to make sure they were on the same page??  Unless they cannot call a TO before the kickoff

 

Likely the assumption was it's a pretty routine thing, everyone knows what to do, not like you need to take a look at what the other team is showing you.  You have maybe two minutes after the extra point before you kickoff, more than enough time to discuss everything needed.

 

But....  Something somewhere went wrong with all that, either Bass not properly told what to do, Bass had a mental breakdown and forgot what he was told to do, or adrenaline kicked in and he thought he let up on it or the wind took it, whatever, but it went much further than he planned for??

[Sierra Foothills]

Is there any doubt that McDermott told Farwell to "find another job as soon as you can because you're not coming back?"

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, TheProcess said:

That Chiefs kick off cost him. You aren’t cutting Bass to make a point (nor should they), so the ST coach is the fall guy. As long as they don’t drag Danny Crossman back here, I’m good with it. 

 

This is probably not a popular POV here, but I think it went deeper than the Chiefs kickoff.  “To whom much is given, much is expected”

1. Blocked punt for 7 points - best assessment I saw pointed to communication failure in blocking.  We put a lot into ST.  Unacceptable

2. Brought in 4 candidates for KR/PR yet wound up with our starting safety Micah Hyde fielding punts.  Meanwhile one of the candidates we cut, Brandon Powell, is about to return kicks and punts for the NFC Super Bowl Team.  Oopsie.

3. McKenzie had a number of good PR and KR called back for holds, including if I remember correctly at least one TD

4. Farwell spoke highly of Stevenson and how he was always asking to watch film etc - he must have signed off that he was ready to take over from McKenzie or even pushed for him, but that was an “egg on your face” move with “Speedy” running into people and muffing punts, that kind of wound up with McDermott looking a bit foolish after he cited “ball security” as a reason to prefer him to McK. (See point 2 above)

5. I don’t think they hold Haack against him

 

Essentially, the ST story has been a mixed bag all season - not a disaster like GB, but probably “did not meet expectations”.  I think point 4 as well as the kickoff probably were the strong factors in suggesting he pursue other options (assuming that was the suggestion).  McDermott got rid of Dennison when he allegedly pushed for Peterman to start and it became clear he was So Not Up To It, thus causing McDermott to look foolish.

 

It’s unclear what input Farwell had into the personnel decisions of course, or what it was

 

24 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

Is there any doubt that McDermott told Farwell to "find another job as soon as you can because you're not coming back?"

 

I don’t think there is

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, Process said:

Disagree very strongly about this. The defense was much worse then any kick decision. 

 

I think there are pros and cons to all three options on the kickoff.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree.  The way that game was going the ‘85 Bears defense wasn’t stopping them.  We pay good money to have one of the best coverage units in the NFL.  Give Mahomes/Kelce/Hill as little time as possible.

[Richard Noggin]

9 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

At some point you need fresh perspectives and it's almost like McDermott lives in his own little bubble and looking for mindless lackeys to do as their told.

 

There's a whole other world in the NFL landscape besides Orchard Park and the Carolina Panthers organization in terms of finding player and coaching talent.

You're being obtuse here to prove a point, yeah?

 

Because otherwise, wtf? Look at the offensive coaching moves, for example, especially with QB coach and OL coach. Those are ego-less, progressive hires. 

[Boatdrinks]

12 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

But then what do you do about players being out of position on defense during the final 13 seconds?

Sacrifice a ST coach...

[BobbyC81]

12 hours ago, london_bills said:

Wow! So he did leave

I don’t think any coach in his right mind would voluntarily leave a Super Bowl contender to take the same job with the Jags.

[stuvian]

I hear his plays look well from far and far from well

[Nextmanup]

15 hours ago, TheProcess said:

That Chiefs kick off cost him. You aren’t cutting Bass to make a point (nor should they), so the ST coach is the fall guy. As long as they don’t drag Danny Crossman back here, I’m good with it. 

He might be a fall guy, he might be the single reason why we lost the game! 

 

McDermott would never talk and let the fans know what went wrong.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that the kick we got is not the kick that was ordered.

 

Maybe the chain of communication broke with Farwell.

 

It's GOOD to know there is some accountability for a mistake that severe.

 

 

[Ray Finkel]

17 hours ago, JohnNord said:

 

Depends what happened.  I don’t think Bass went rogue.  He didn’t know what the call was and it’s been speculated that Farwell couldn’t or didn’t get it to him for whatever reason.  I think the coach is more accountable than the player in that situation 

You are exactly right.  The call didn’t get to Bass.  That is the true story from the inside.  I still think McDermott has blood on his hands also.  He should have got the defense out of that prevent.  Maybe he over ruled Leslie and that is why he is still here.

[YoloinOhio]

12 hours ago, MWK said:

 

Exactly! We already passed over this guy once when we hired Farwell, what makes him such a good candidate now?

3 more years of experience I assume?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, stuvian said:

I hear his plays look well from far and far from well

Wow, that is  a good one. 😁

⬇️
⬇️

🎤

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Ray Finkel said:

You are exactly right.  The call didn’t get to Bass.  That is the true story from the inside.  I still think McDermott has blood on his hands also.  He should have got the defense out of that prevent.  Maybe he over ruled Leslie and that is why he is still here.

 

Maybe.  But with Flores' lawsuit alleging systemic racism in the NFL, how would it look for McD to fire Frazier after leading the #1 defense?

[Canadian Bills Fan]

What a huge loss

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Maybe.  But with Flores' lawsuit alleging systemic racism in the NFL, how would it look for McD to fire Frazier after leading the #1 defense?

 

Do you really think that would stop McDermott if he felt it was time to move on?  I would say "nope, wouldn't."  He wouldn't fire him though - he'd do exactly what he did with Farwell and encourage him to explore "other opportunities" and it would be announced as a lateral move, not a firing and hiring.

 

McDermott might even sell it as something Frazier needs to do if he truly wants another HC gig and it could have some truth to it: just as perhaps Bieniemy possibly doesn't get credit he should because he's standing in Andy Reid's shadow, it may be equally true that Frazier doesn't get the credit he deserves because he's standing in McDermott's shadow.

 

With the time outs, though, I'm quite sure McDermott knew what the playcalls were and bought in, and is not going to punish someone else over shared responsibility.

 

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Do you really think that would stop McDermott if he felt it was time to move on?  I would say "nope, wouldn't."  He wouldn't fire him though - he'd do exactly what he did with Farwell and encourage him to explore "other opportunities" and it would be announced as a lateral move, not a firing and hiring.

 

McDermott might even sell it as something Frazier needs to do if he truly wants another HC gig and it could have some truth to it: just as perhaps Bieniemy possibly doesn't get credit he should because he's standing in Andy Reid's shadow, it may be equally true that Frazier doesn't get the credit he deserves because he's standing in McDermott's shadow.

 

With the time outs, though, I'm quite sure McDermott knew what the playcalls were and bought in, and is not going to punish someone else over shared responsibility.

 

 

It might.  None of us can say for sure.  Although (I hope) he might start marginalizing him going forward.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Doc

[without a drought]

No matter what went on with the kickoff, it was the 13 seconds that followed that was the real issue. And that probably lands right at the head coach, I'm pretty sure it was his call at that point of the game. 

[MWK]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

3 more years of experience I assume?

He had already had 5 when we passed him up, which was 2 more than farwell had when we hired him

Edited February 10, 2022 by MWK