Did Josh Allen go rogue on the 4th and 1 run.

[Protocal69]

I was looking at this video and one of the guys brought up a good point that he thought the play call was to hand it off the running back but Josh decided to keep it himself that was why Dawkins basically let his man get to the outside and Diggs didnt even try to block the WR and that gt me to thinking he might be right 

https://youtu.be/-GGrVads1-k?t=1452

 

 

 

So went looking for the play and Dan Orlowsky broke down the play to show it seems like that is exactly what he did. 

https://youtu.be/8oTmykbPR1g?t=353

 

 

 

 

 

 

That took a lot of balls to make that call on your own without your own team knowing what you was about to do. I know he did that before a couple of times this year and that was a huge moment in the game. That is being self confident at its finest.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Protocal69

[CNYfan]

I was wondering what Dawkins technique was supposed to be on the play.   

[stosh64]

I would love to see Josh calling his own plays like Kelly used to.  I think Josh would be better.

[ganesh]

4 minutes ago, stosh64 said:

I would love to see Josh calling his own plays like Kelly used to.  I think Josh would be better.

It would be a disaster without a HoF RB.

 

It was ok for Kelly to call his own plays because he had a HOF RB who would demand the  football and do something with it.   For Allen, without a true running game, it would be far easier for him to take it upon himself to play hero ball too often.  That will always end in disaster as some of the losses have shown over the last few years.

[shane nelson]

I always thought a QB bootleg was basically the QB do it on their own with no one, not even his own team knowing.  The ultimate elements of surprise.  I wish we did it more often aka Titian game.  

[dickleyjones]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

It would be a disaster without a HoF RB.

 

It was ok for Kelly to call his own plays because he had a HOF RB who would demand the  football and do something with it.   For Allen, without a true running game, it would be far easier for him to take it upon himself to play hero ball too often.  That will always end in disaster as some of the losses have shown over the last few years.

maybe, or maybe he would do great. i hope they give him the chance in the future, but it will need practice so it is not for this year.

[MAJBobby]

It is a Called Run. With the QB having the ability to pull it. 
 

josh did what I would want Josh to do. Pulled it and kept the ball in the hands of the best player on the field. Himself 

[RiotAct]

why would Diggs block one of his own teammates?  Or himself?

 

[LeGOATski]

Josh has the option to either hand it off or keep it based on the look the defense gives pre-snap. As soon as the Pats LBs step up to the A gaps just before the snap Josh knows he can keep it.

 

They put numbers inside, so Josh ran it outside.

 

I thought it was a nice return-of-the-favor after NE gashed the Bills multiple times to the outside on one of their early drives.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I thought Dawkins let his guy go to the outside because he wanted to avoid a holding penalty that he was already very close to committing 

[Matt_In_NH]

The Bills have lost the ability to do a QB sneak this year which kinda sucks.  Every team can do it against the Bills no problem.  They need to add beef interior next offseason.

[LeGOATski]

12 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

I thought Dawkins let his guy go to the outside because he wanted to avoid a holding penalty that he was already very close to committing 

The OP meant he let him get the outside edge at the snap. I don't think he knew the play was going outside. If he did know, then it was really poor footwork. 

[HoofHearted]

5 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

I was looking at this video and one of the guys brought up a good point that he thought the play call was to hand it off the running back but Josh decided to keep it himself that was why Dawkins basically let his man get to the outside and Diggs didnt even try to block the WR and that gt me to thinking he might be right 

https://youtu.be/-GGrVads1-k?t=1452

 

 

 

So went looking for the play and Dan Orlowsky broke down the play to show it seems like that is exactly what he did. 

https://youtu.be/8oTmykbPR1g?t=353

 

 

 

 

 

 

That took a lot of balls to make that call on your own without your own team knowing what you was about to do. I know he did that before a couple of times this year and that was a huge moment in the game. That is being self confident at its finest.

Definitely didn't go rogue. As others have said it's built in to the rules/design of the play. Count the numbers in the box - if the box is loaded and you can get the edge you keep it on the boot. You'd be surprised how many play calls are determined by box counts.

[LeGOATski]

The last guy to go rogue was Doug Whaley. 

 

Hopefully this turns out better.

[BuffaloMatt]

2 hours ago, shane nelson said:

I always thought a QB bootleg was basically the QB do it on their own with no one, not even his own team knowing.  The ultimate elements of surprise.  I wish we did it more often aka Titian game.  

Flutiesque

[Jerome007]

Like others have said, it was clearly an option Josh had, and he picked the right one. The Cheats had totally clogged the middle. They also had guys on the edge and it became a man to man battle on the open field that Josh won. Well designed by the Cheats, but even better played by 17. 

 

Dawkins just avoided getting a holding call. He did block partly. 

 

BTW I wished the Bills D would do the same on obvious sneaks. More often than not, it will work. 

[dorquemada]

59 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

Flutiesque

imagine if JA17 ever becomes as slippery as Flutie?  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Later on in the Orlovsky piece, he talks about Mac Jones INT and how the game could have gotten more out of hand for the Bills.

 

When the Patriots were on winning streak and Mac Jones was making some of the throws he made, I thought at the time "man, a ball hawking team is gonna pick him".  He's been throwing it into double coverage and making off-target throws and his guys have been bringing it in and making circus catches for him.

 

Sooner or later that will catch up with a passer.

[Dablitzkrieg]

15 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

imagine if JA17 ever becomes as slippery as Flutie?  

what? lmao

[PromoTheRobot]

Allen went rogue because he thought Belichick knew some Bills play calls.

[Taro Nimbus]

Orlovski broke it down perfectly.  That 4th and 1 was a designed run and Allen took it at the last second.  

[dorquemada]

2 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

what? lmao

 

Allen is better in every single way, dont get me wrong, but Flutie had a real genius for 2 things

 

1)  running the broken play offense - i think he preferred it in fact.  The guy almost never took bad sacks, and Im not sure i ever remember him taking a deep sack

 

2)  never took the big hit - even when some LB had him dead to rights, he never took a direct hit, like Allen does several times a game

 

I get it that part of the reason is that Flutie was 5'3 and Allen is what, 11 feet tall?  That was the thing though, Flutie made people look foolish multiple times every game.  Short of the Pork Faced Satan coming up with using a MLB as a spy on him, his schtick might have won us more games

[Captain_Quint]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Later on in the Orlovsky piece, he talks about Mac Jones INT and how the game could have gotten more out of hand for the Bills.

 

When the Patriots were on winning streak and Mac Jones was making some of the throws he made, I thought at the time "man, a ball hawking team is gonna pick him".  He's been throwing it into double coverage and making off-target throws and his guys have been bringing it in and making circus catches for him.

 

Sooner or later that will catch up with a passer.

Yeah, teams have some tape on him and are keying on his tendencies like every other qb in the league, which is where the cream starts to separate. It's hard to catch teams by surprise or execute flawlessly once it's on film. 

We see it every year where a QB just isn't hitting the passes anymore, or the D is a half step faster. 

 

It will very interesting to see how his game moves from here. But if he keeps floating balls, it will be a quick trip to the 2nd string. 

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

3 hours ago, dorquemada said:

imagine if JA17 ever becomes as slippery as Flutie?  

Flutie and Allen should never be mentioned in the same sentence...Unless that sentence is "Flutie and Allen should never be mentioned in the same sentence."

[dorquemada]

8 minutes ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

Flutie and Allen should never be mentioned in the same sentence...Unless that sentence is "Flutie and Allen should never be mentioned in the same sentence."

 

...in a thread where we're discussing if Allen improvised on a 4th and 1?  Sure thing, thread cop

[Mark Vader]

3 hours ago, dorquemada said:

imagine if JA17 ever becomes as slippery as Flutie?  

I think he already is

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

35 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

...in a thread where we're discussing if Allen improvised on a 4th and 1?  Sure thing, thread cop

Haha. Thread cop?  Sorry, continue with your theory that Allen needs to be more slippery, like Flutie. (Flutie averaged less yards per carry(5.14) in his Bills career than Allen(5.42))

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Allen calls his number a lot. 

[Logic]

Actually, I was wondering something different about the play.

I saw that Diggs basically didn't even try to block the corner that was defending him. He did, however, turn around and make himself available for a shovel pass. Seeing the 11 yard pass that Allen DID complete to Diggs on 3rd down in this game as well as the rollout shovel pass to Knox that sealed the game, it made me wonder if the play design was not only for Josh to roll out left, but for Diggs to be available as a "break glass in case of emergency" outlet receiver for the shovel pass.

Hmmm...

[CNYfan]

6 hours ago, HoofHearted said:

Definitely didn't go rogue. As others have said it's built in to the rules/design of the play. Count the numbers in the box - if the box is loaded and you can get the edge you keep it on the boot. You'd be surprised how many play calls are determined by box counts.

If this is true, which I will assume it is, what is Dawkins responsibility on seeing the same set? 

[HoofHearted]

27 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

If this is true, which I will assume it is, what is Dawkins responsibility on seeing the same set? 

He’s blocking the called run concept. That’s why you see him block out on the end. Josh has to know he can get the edge on that guy.

[Buffalo716]

The second he did that I said he pulled a Doug flutie 

 

I absolutely believed he called his own number 

 

But Dawkins does pinch the guy and let's him go as Josh is bootlegging so it could be designed hand-off or boot

Edited December 28, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Billsatlastin2018]

8 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

It is a Called Run. With the QB having the ability to pull it. 
 

josh did what I would want Josh to do. Pulled it and kept the ball in the hands of the best player on the field. Himself 

AGREE with this!👍

 

The wags say: “Whatever works.”

 

The real answer is this:

When you are 3rd. OR 4th. & 1... even more simple... 1 FOOT... you hurry to the line and snap it immediately and move forward like Bart Starr under Kramer in the Ice Bowl! 
 

* Or most importantly, like the GOAT, who has a success rate of 95% over +100 chances, in 20 years!!
 

What you don’t do, is call a TO to discuss and to let the D prepare, as the Bills infuriatingly did over the first 18 years of this millennium.

 

And it really helps on a dry day, when your QB isn’t Tyrod Taylor- rather a 6’5” mobile beast of a man!

 

(So with that dipsy doodle juke, Allen made a GREAT play out of a certain change of possession! The handoff would likely have been stuffed too)

 

[97bills]

8 hours ago, mattynh said:

The Bills have lost the ability to do a QB sneak this year which kinda sucks.  Every team can do it against the Bills no problem.  They need to add beef interior next offseason.

And that’s hard to do lose the ability to QB sneak, I think that speaks volume about the oline this year. 

[hemma]

I hope the 2 Patriots players that ran into each other weren’t hurt.

Gosh, I hope they’re ok.

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Later on in the Orlovsky piece, he talks about Mac Jones INT and how the game could have gotten more out of hand for the Bills.

 

When the Patriots were on winning streak and Mac Jones was making some of the throws he made, I thought at the time "man, a ball hawking team is gonna pick him".  He's been throwing it into double coverage and making off-target throws and his guys have been bringing it in and making circus catches for him.

 

Sooner or later that will catch up with a passer.

Today, I don't think it was the decision making that hurt Jones as much as that the Bills were always ahead of the Patriots. That pressure put them in situations that did not allow him to make more better plays.

[Bubba Gump]

Maybe when Josh was running through the tunnel yelling, "who the ***** do they think I am" he was really talking about McD and Daboll, lol

[MJS]

4 hours ago, 97bills said:

And that’s hard to do lose the ability to QB sneak, I think that speaks volume about the oline this year. 

Yes, but Allen needs to take a page out of Brady's book. Allen tries to look for a hole. Brady just lowers his head and shoulders and plows his way through without looking or hesitating.

[Simon]

5 minutes ago, MJS said:

Yes, but Allen needs to take a page out of Brady's book. Allen tries to look for a hole. Brady just lowers his head and shoulders and plows his way through without looking or hesitating.

Brady is playing for the yard, while Josh is looking for the endzone. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

He could have flipped it to Diggs...

And I think he woulda, had he realized that were gonna tackle him short.  Great situational awareness... Diggs right there, ball is in his throwing hand like an outrigger... 

Edited December 29, 2021 by ExiledInIllinois