The Bickering Bills

[Buffalo Barbarian]

This current team probably isnt infighting like those Bills teams of the early Jim Kelly era but it reminds me a lot of when we went 12-4 in 1988 but the next year went 9-7. Cant remember why we regressed back in 88 but i think this year has a lot to do with other teams figuring us out, McDermott becoming more conservative in gameplans and in game decisions and some things just not going are way (block punt Pittsburgh, horrendous reffing Jacksonville, etc)

 

This season isnt over and i think we still make the playoffs but i just dont see us going far this year with our shortcomings. Hopefully McBeane can figure this out this offseason and we can go on to great records every year after.

 

 

[MPL]

It is more common than not that a team that loses the conference championship regresses and finishes with a worse record the following season, or is bounced from the playoffs in an earlier round. I know there have been some exceptions to this in the AFC over the past decade, but what we're experiencing right now isn't uncommon. 

We didn't add any pieces and ran it back with 21 of 22 starters from last year. Teams had the whole offseason to study our offense. We haven't adjusted or adapted quick enough. 

 

That said, they've got a franchise QB who is one of the best in the league and one of the best WRs in the league. They should be able to retool the roster this offseason and come back better next year. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

1 minute ago, MPL said:

It is more common than not that a team that loses the conference championship regresses and finishes with a worse record the following season, or is bounced from the playoffs in an earlier round. I know there have been some exceptions to this in the AFC over the past decade, but what we're experiencing right now isn't uncommon. 

We didn't add any pieces and ran it back with 21 of 22 starters from last year. Teams had the whole offseason to study our offense. We haven't adjusted or adapted quick enough. 

 

That said, they've got a franchise QB who is one of the best in the league and one of the best WRs in the league. They should be able to retool the roster this offseason and come back better next year. 

 

Agree with all this but if we get back to being aggressive this year we can make a run this year

 

 

[nucci]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

This current team probably isnt infighting like those Bills teams of the early Jim Kelly era but it reminds me a lot of when we went 12-4 in 1988 but the next year went 9-7. Cant remember why we regressed back in 88 but i think this year has a lot to do with other teams figuring us out, McDermott becoming more conservative in gameplans and in game decisions and some things just not going are way (block punt Pittsburgh, horrendous reffing Jacksonville, etc)

 

This season isnt over and i think we still make the playoffs but i just dont see us going far this year with our shortcomings. Hopefully McBeane can figure this out this offseason and we can go on to great records every year after.

 

 

they regressed because they hated each other...nothing to do with teams figuring them out

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

This current team probably isnt infighting like those Bills teams of the early Jim Kelly era but it reminds me a lot of when we went 12-4 in 1988 but the next year went 9-7. Cant remember why we regressed back in 88 but i think this year has a lot to do with other teams figuring us out, McDermott becoming more conservative in gameplans and in game decisions and some things just not going are way (block punt Pittsburgh, horrendous reffing Jacksonville, etc)

 

This season isnt over and i think we still make the playoffs but i just dont see us going far this year with our shortcomings. Hopefully McBeane can figure this out this offseason and we can go on to great records every year after.

 

 

 

I've seen this comparison being tossed out there for a while now but it's wishful thinking and those teams didn't have to worry about going up against the GOAT HC in NFL history twice a season.

 

The bigger comparison Bills fans should be thinking about is the crazy stat that at least one of the four teams who made the conference championship the previous season has failed to make the playoffs the next year. I believe this is happened at least 15 straight years or something like that.

 

So out of GB/TB and KC/BUF, want to venture to guess which team is likely to be the 'lucky' one who doesn't make the playoffs this year based on current record and status?

[Mike in Horseheads]

I think the team got divided some when Beasley was shooting his mouth off on twitter about a virus. It became a issue in clubhouse with others then taking sides and the "leader" Allen refused to say his status. Then the front office and coach's publicly making statements.  Throw in more injuries than last year and here we are

[Buffalo_Stampede]

The Bickering Bills Fans. 

[RichRiderBills]

I thought this too. Truth is we need a killer guard we need a stud RB. We can do that in one draft class. 

 

For now we may need a new LT too. Ours has been playing soft. 

[RyanC883]

3 hours ago, MPL said:

It is more common than not that a team that loses the conference championship regresses and finishes with a worse record the following season, or is bounced from the playoffs in an earlier round. I know there have been some exceptions to this in the AFC over the past decade, but what we're experiencing right now isn't uncommon. 

We didn't add any pieces and ran it back with 21 of 22 starters from last year. Teams had the whole offseason to study our offense. We haven't adjusted or adapted quick enough. 

 

That said, they've got a franchise QB who is one of the best in the league and one of the best WRs in the league. They should be able to retool the roster this offseason and come back better next year. 

 

we should be able to retool, but the fact we didn't last year when we had obvious room for improvement at OL, RB, and DL (yes, we drafted two DE's--one of whom is largely inactive) makes me wonder if Bean: (1) notices the issues; and/or (2) has any clue how to pick players to solve the issues.   

[Ray Stonada]

I was texting last night with one of my best friends, a lifelong Bills fan like me. In high school we went to the 51-3 AFC championship game and about 20 other games together (paying our own money cause we didn't have parents with season tickets). We live a couple thousand miles apart now, 30 years later, but we text every week leading up to games. Last night, we were both predictably frustrated about the coaching and play-calling and we agreed McD seems to have a real knack for making the wrong call on fourth downs and challenges.

 

But we were both worried about something more difficult to define: the feeling of team unity.

 

There seems to be a weird Bickering Bills feeling floating around, like the team isn’t fighting as one. We remembered the 1989 season well and how there was a sense that Jim Kelly throwing Howard Ballard under the bus broke the team's unity back then. It took Thuman Thomas calling him out and the two of them getting over it to bring the team back together. (By the way, for my money Thurman was the MVP of the 90s teams.)

 

Back to this season: when one of our guys makes a dumb mistake, penalty or whatever, I don’t have the feeling that they feel bad they let the team down. It's like they’re not playing for each other the same as last year. As my friend said, last year's team had that good feeling and this year's doesn't.

 

Did the vaccine issue drive a serious wedge into the team? Is the disappointment of the season slowly breaking them down? I rewatched the Kansas City game last night and the Bills looked totally together, and McDermott looked like a different coach: cool, calm and collected. (Also worth noting, for those who think we need to pass 60 times tomorrow night: the Bills put a stamp on that KC game with a TD on our first drive using three called Josh Allen runs, and a couple of runs with our backs, which then set up the deep passes to Sanders, Diggs and Knox later.) 

 

Flash forward to the Pats game and McDermott looks like he's losing it, meanwhile players (like Knox) are making mistakes left and right, they're fumbling handoffs, the whole team just has a sense of malaise around it. The player's efforts don't seem to add up.

 

So the question is, why has a team that seemed like they were on a mission together the last two seasons suddenly unable to win close games, make clutch plays when we need them, and get out of their own way? Why can't they elevate when the chips are down? What happened to their team spirit?

 

[Johnnycage46]

I think the team spirit is fine.  The fans are $%!@#$@#.

[ProcessTruster]

12 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I think the team spirit is fine.  The fans are $%!@#$@#.

exactly.  the team was onto the next game 3 days ago.  fans are still peeing in their beer

[NewEra]

It’s hard to comment on the state of the locker room while sitting on the couch.  
 

You’re basically saying that players don’t look like they feel bad about committing penalties.  Why?  Because we’re committing more penalties this season, that means they don’t care?  Idk

 

knox has played great in every game this year, minus this past week.  He plays bad in one game and there’s a problem in the locker room?  McD lost a huge game and is pissed off…..and that’s a locker room problem. 
 

we’re 0-4 in 1 score games. If a couple of those ended differently, the narrative is much different.
 

We’re making mistakes.  Way more mistakes than last year.  The opposing D’s have a blueprint for how to play us and we haven’t fully figured out how to attack that blueprint.  Our OL sucks.  That’s why we have 5 losses imo.

 

[SoCal Deek]

The problem isn’t bickering. The team’s  problem is apathy. 

[Ray Stonada]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The problem isn’t bickering. The team’s  problem is apathy. 

 

I agree. But we didn't have that sense of apathy last year.

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Ray Stonada said:

 

I agree. But we didn't have that sense of apathy last year.

True. But that was last year. This year there’s something desperately wrong. Up one week and down the next. The coaching staff doesn’t appear to be able to keep these guys in the zone. The time for clowning around is OVER! It’s time for talent to rise to the top. They have the talent…now finish this thing!!

[uticaclub]

I have no idea what's happening in the Bills locker room, neither do you or any of our friends. The locker room could being turning on each other or uniting, this team could all hate each other and sneak out a win in Tampa or be completely unified and lose by 50.

[bmur66]

Getting to the next level is hard. Regressing is easy.

Edited December 11, 2021 by bmur66

[Ya Digg?]

Wait am I following this correctly-the Bills have no unity because Knox had a bad game and Breida fumbled the football? 

[Kornfed]

Sports psyc. is a strange animal. They went from being an up and coming team to being a favorite (hunter/hunted). I don't know if it's apathy as much as it is imaturity/maturity and experience/wisdom. They are learning a degree of humility. In the long run they will be a better team for it. .. Hopefully, not too long a run.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Kornfed

[JaCrispy]

The Bills are weak against good teams...And I think this is frustrating a lot of players because they are realizing they are not a complete enough team to compete at a higher level, now that the rest of the league has their number...

 

IMO the Bills will have to do some deep soul searching this offseason, and make some tough decisions about retooling their team...the current squad is simply not championship caliber, and some (previously perceived) cornerstone players may have to go in order to get better...

 

This is no time for sentimentality, bruised egos, or getting attached to certain players...This is a cut throat business, and if certain players are stagnating, limiting the growth and potential of the team, they must be cut loose or traded...

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Evian]

I still HONESTLY think the Bills are winning the Supebowl. I don't see why they can't. The Colts game was terrible,  but every team has a head scratching game this year. Every other loss was winnable. 

 

The Bills are just a little bit off. I think the Bills can win this weekend but it will not matter. The Bills at Pats game will determine everything for me. If they go to New England and win I don't think they will lose again. I think they win out and head to the playoffs like an unstoppable train.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Evian

[LyndonvilleBill]

Expectations... I think the players are beating themselves up trying to live up to them and may be coming across as lacking unity.  I believe they all are just uptight right now. Just need to loosen up a little and I think a win against the Bucs could do that. I do think that Mommy and Daddy are having issues right now (McDermott and Daboll) and when that happens the kids suffer (team). I don't think McDermott and Daboll are on the same page and until that gets resolved, we could be heading down a rough road.

 

Team unity will be fine, coaching staff probably not so much.

[Ray Stonada]

7 minutes ago, Evian said:

I still HONESTLY think the Bills are winning the Supebowl. I don't see why they can't. The Colts game was terrible,  but every team has a head scratching game this year. Every other loss was winnable. 

 

The Bills are just a little bit off. I think the Bills can win this weekend but it will not matter. The Bills at Pats game will determine everything for me. If they go to New England and win I don't think they will lose again. I think they win out and head to the playoffs like an unstoppable train.

 

I totally agree with this. I still secretly believe the Bills are going to win the Super Bowl too. Just need them to get together and one win in tough circumstances might be enough to do it.

 

 

[nedboy7]

6 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

 

I totally agree with this. I still secretly believe the Bills are going to win the Super Bowl too. Just need them to get together and one win in tough circumstances might be enough to do it.

 

 

 

So this team lacking unity is still in the SB hunt.  I like it. 

[FireChans]

Is there a name for this phenomenon where Bills fans somehow have to link everything back to a different team 30 years ago? When they really aren’t similar at all?

[Mr. WEO]

14 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I've seen this comparison being tossed out there for a while now but it's wishful thinking and those teams didn't have to worry about going up against the GOAT HC in NFL history twice a season.

 

 

 

 

Bills beat NE twice last season...

[cwater10]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Is there a name for this phenomenon where Bills fans somehow have to link everything back to a different team 30 years ago? When they really aren’t similar at all?

Not sure.  Maybe we can ask Marv Levy why he had a historical war reference for almost every football situation when those situations really aren't similar at all.  Or maybe we can just acknowledge that historical patterns, references, memories of past teams developmental curves and such phenomenon provide interest and insight for some and not so much for others and just leave it at that...

[FireChans]

50 minutes ago, cwater10 said:

Not sure.  Maybe we can ask Marv Levy why he had a historical war reference for almost every football situation when those situations really aren't similar at all.  Or maybe we can just acknowledge that historical patterns, references, memories of past teams developmental curves and such phenomenon provide interest and insight for some and not so much for others and just leave it at that...

The Bills are not playing well.

 

TBD, everytime: IS THIS LIKE THE BICKERING BILLS AND 1989 VIBES???????????????

 

The answer is no. It’s not.

Edited December 11, 2021 by FireChans

[Nextmanup]

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

The Bills are weak against good teams...And I think this is frustrating a lot of players because they are realizing they are not a complete enough team to compete at a higher level, now that the rest of the league has their number...

 

IMO the Bills will have to do some deep soul searching this offseason, and make some tough decisions about retooling their team...the current squad is simply not championship caliber, and some (previously perceived) cornerstone players may have to go in order to get better...

 

This is no time for sentimentality, bruised egos, or getting attached to certain players...This is a cut throat business, and if certain players are stagnating, limiting the growth and potential of the team, they must be cut loose or traded...

 

 

Who do you have in mind, specifically?

 

Josh Allen and his receiver corps are more than good enough to win a SB IMO.

 

That's a hell of a solid start to building the SB winning team.

 

 

1 hour ago, cwater10 said:

Not sure.  Maybe we can ask Marv Levy why he had a historical war reference for almost every football situation when those situations really aren't similar at all.  Or maybe we can just acknowledge that historical patterns, references, memories of past teams developmental curves and such phenomenon provide interest and insight for some and not so much for others and just leave it at that...

It's more fun to simply argue with each other's posts.

 

This forum remains mostly a place where strangers can go and argue with other strangers, for those who enjoy such sport.

 

 

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Who do you have in mind, specifically?

 

Josh Allen and his receiver corps are more than good enough to win a SB IMO.

 

That's a hell of a solid start to building the SB winning team.

 

 

(1) I’d like to see Mitch Morse salary invested elsewhere...He was what the team needed when he first came over, but I think he limits the potential of our OL...wouldn’t mind seeing him cut after the season...We have guys on the roster who can fill in, while we pick his replacement in the draft...

 

(2) Been saying for over a year now that this time would come for Trumaine Edmunds...And there will never be a better time to get as much value out of him, in a trade, than after this season...After 4 years I honestly believe he has reached his ceiling and will never be anything better than what he currently is...

 

Because we are limited with our salary cap, this team simply cannot afford to be giving out big contracts to non playmakers...it would limit our potential for years to come...Get a bottom 1st rounder, two 2nd rounders- I don’t care...He is never the LB we miss when he is out of the lineup, and that should tell you all you need to know...

 

Of course there are other guys with expiring contracts I would let walk, or other guys I would cut...But these two moves would be the toughest decisions, and would show me that this organization has balls, and really wants to win, instead of staying attached to mediocre talent...

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

I'll take the half glass full perspective and say the struggles the Bills are having in closing out close games this year is getting them battle tested for the playoffs. It seems with the exception of the Chiefs the Bills are losing to every team they may see in the playoffs. Hopefully the Bills will be ready for the rematch. 

[Nextmanup]

41 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

(1) I’d like to see Mitch Morse salary invested elsewhere...He was what the team needed when he first came over, but I think he limits the potential of our OL...wouldn’t mind seeing him cut after the season...We have guys on the roster who can fill in, while we pick his replacement in the draft...

 

(2) Been saying for over a year now that this time would come for Trumaine Edmunds...And there will never be a better time to get as much value out of him, in a trade, than after this season...After 4 years I honestly believe he has reached his ceiling and will never be anything better than what he currently is...

 

Because we are limited with our salary cap, this team simply cannot afford to be giving out big contracts to non playmakers...it would limit our potential for years to come...Get a bottom 1st rounder, two 2nd rounders- I don’t care...He is never the LB we miss when he is out of the lineup, and that should tell you all you need to know...

 

Of course there are other guys with expiring contracts I would let walk, or other guys I would cut...But these two moves would be the toughest decisions, and would show me that this organization has balls, and really wants to win, instead of staying attached to mediocre talent...

 

 

Morse has to go IMO; ditto Edmunds!  I'd like to see 2 if not 3 pieces on the OL changed for next season if we can pull that off!  Draft and FA.  

 

I'm not sure Edmunds has the trade value some Bills fans think he has; we will probably hang onto him 1 more year for that final year before letting him walk.  I hope I'm wrong and he is involved in a trade with some good value coming back at us.

 

I think I would concentrate this off-season on the OL b/c that directly makes Josh better and making Josh better is the most important thing we can do.

 

Finding an Edmunds replacement should be of lesser importance IMO, though still important.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I'll take the half glass full perspective and say the struggles the Bills are having in closing out close games this year is getting them battle tested for the playoffs. It seems with the exception of the Chiefs the Bills are losing to every team they may see in the playoffs. Hopefully the Bills will be ready for the rematch. 

It can't hurt I don't think.  And I'd rather lose the regular season game, but win the rematch in the playoffs!

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

18 hours ago, MPL said:

It is more common than not that a team that loses the conference championship regresses and finishes with a worse record the following season, or is bounced from the playoffs in an earlier round. I know there have been some exceptions to this in the AFC over the past decade, but what we're experiencing right now isn't uncommon. 

We didn't add any pieces and ran it back with 21 of 22 starters from last year. Teams had the whole offseason to study our offense. We haven't adjusted or adapted quick enough. 

 

That said, they've got a franchise QB who is one of the best in the league and one of the best WRs in the league. They should be able to retool the roster this offseason and come back better next year. 

I have no doubt we will come back better next year. I think we barely make the playoffs this year but we're not going deep.  McB realizes they screwed up some on the OL and got a little too greedy selecting D players.  Fixing the OL has to be top priority. Then find a better faster RB.  

[BananaB]

Wanting to win and expecting to win bring different emotions come game time. Right now there just seems to be no urgency with these guys, they just believe in the end they will have an opportunity to win doesn’t matter how they play. Let’s be honest, other then the Colts game they have had that opportunity. Sadly, if you look at most games they have opportunities to score more and put teams away. A lot of the times settle for 3 or nothing. Josh keeps saying “as long as we finish every drive with a kick”, that’s ***** garbage and it seems it has been cemented in their ***** brain. If we are punting we should not be happy, if we are deep in the red zone and settle for 3 we should not be happy. The team is way to relaxed right now. 
 

I’m getting sick of the double dip at half time too, when was the last time it worked for us.  Take the ball, get ahead and try to force teams off their game plan.  

[K-9]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

Wanting to win and expecting to win bring different emotions come game time. Right now there just seems to be no urgency with these guys, they just believe in the end they will have an opportunity to win doesn’t matter how they play. Let’s be honest, other then the Colts game they have had that opportunity. Sadly, if you look at most games they have opportunities to score more and put teams away. A lot of the times settle for 3 or nothing. Josh keeps saying “as long as we finish every drive with a kick”, that’s ***** garbage and it seems it has been cemented in their ***** brain. If we are punting we should not be happy, if we are deep in the red zone and settle for 3 we should not be happy. The team is way to relaxed right now. 
 

I’m getting sick of the double dip at half time too, when was the last time it worked for us.  Take the ball, get ahead and try to force teams off their game plan.  

Forcing teams out of their game plans and making them one dimensional is really what the “double dip” is about. If done right, you can go from being tied to being up two possessions well into the third quarter while the opponent’s offense has been sitting around for a lengthy spell. It’s a great opportunity to take command of the game. 

 

But I agree that it doesn’t matter if you can’t execute it and we suck at it. I wonder if Daboll appreciates the urgency behind the strategy because we tend to come out flatter than pancakes after halftime.

[cwater10]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

The Bills are not playing well.

 

TBD, everytime: IS THIS LIKE THE BICKERING BILLS AND 1989 VIBES???????????????

 

The answer is no. It’s not.

I'm getting a sense that there is very little wiggle room for you on this.  So 1989 is not your thing.  May I interest you in a conversation about the '75 Bills?  Now there is a pre internet mind bender of a season that we could have all lost our composure over.  Go look it up or remember it if you can, or if you were there.  It might look a little familiar in retrospect.  What a year, complete with over reliance on a superstar, high expectation and hot start including a dominating win over the team that knocked us from the playoffs the previous year, all seemingly in a flash just gone up in flames, a little national TV spectacle with the undefeated Bills (20 point favorites) taking an unthinkable loss to a dreadful team (NY Giants on MNF) featuring a fan doing a Nick Walenda impression on the guide wire holding up the net, the free-fall from 4-0 to 8-6 and right out of the playoffs, a highly respected coach having meltdowns on the sideline, defensive collapse and frustrated angry fans...  Good god, I can smell the parallels from four or five decades away.  If I just close my eyes, I'm sitting right there in section C soaking in the sun and taking on the snow all over again.  Don't even get me started about that freakin' Bert Jones game.  Tell me I'm wrong.  I'll trust you to interpret it all for me.  And be certain about it dammit!  

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by cwater10

[BananaB]

38 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Forcing teams out of their game plans and making them one dimensional is really what the “double dip” is about. If done right, you can go from being tied to being up two possessions well into the third quarter while the opponent’s offense has been sitting around for a lengthy spell. It’s a great opportunity to take command of the game. 

 

But I agree that it doesn’t matter if you can’t execute it and we suck at it. I wonder if Daboll appreciates the urgency behind the strategy because we tend to come out flatter than pancakes after halftime.

Yeah I get it, just think it over rated. The game is 60 minutes long, why not start to try getting ahead early instead of hoping for a double possession. All goes back to what I said about no urgency and believing they will always have a shot instead of going for the kill early. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by BananaB

[reddogblitz]

20 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I've seen this comparison being tossed out there for a while now but it's wishful thinking and those teams didn't have to worry about going up against the GOAT HC in NFL history twice a season.

 

The bigger comparison Bills fans should be thinking about is the crazy stat that at least one of the four teams who made the conference championship the previous season has failed to make the playoffs the next year. I believe this is happened at least 15 straight years or something like that.

 

So out of GB/TB and KC/BUF, want to venture to guess which team is likely to be the 'lucky' one who doesn't make the playoffs this year based on current record and status?

 

I still think we're going to make the playoffs. Can't speak for the other teams.

[Matt_In_NH]

20 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

I've seen this comparison being tossed out there for a while now but it's wishful thinking and those teams didn't have to worry about going up against the GOAT HC in NFL history twice a season.

In 1989, who was the GOAT HC?   Who is the coach BB is chasing for all time wins?  Shula was kind of that guy then and he had his franchise QB.  I totally get your point, I dont like the comparisons to those teams though, there is some assumption that to be good you have to mirror the 90's teams.