Jump to content

John Wawrow: McDermott says offense became too quarterback-dependent, jeopardizing team’s success


Hapless Bills Fan

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

https://apnews.com/article/nfl-sports-sean-mcdermott-new-york-jets-new-york-6e5ab725e9f6b6b974231d06d3f9842a

 

I didn't quite hear it that way, but Wawrow was there and I was not, and I can't hear the questions

 

 

 

 

Wawrow points out the Bills have now lost 2 of their last 3 games - that ain't good folks!

 

 

Wait, it's Allen's job to call plays?

 

We all know Allen is loyal and isn't going to publicly throw his guys under the bus, but he has to see on the film that they're making mistakes in front of him.

 

Allen's job is to get us into a different play, if the defensive look dictates that.  I think that is what he is pointing out. 

 

Plenty of blame to go around, coaching is primary IMO right now.  Absolutely no reason we are continuing to put no threat of a running game.  Plenty of different blocking/run schemes that they could be trying.  Or formations, etc.

 

No variety=we are counting on our guys just to be more talented and outperform the defense.  It's way too vanilla and I'd be shocked if we didn't see a much different offense this week.  

 

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, motorj said:

So is he saying dabs should call more run plays for the rb's instead of being pass happy? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen with this OL


You need a run game wether you employ it or not.  
 

Is it the O line? The RB’s? Or just a piss poor Daboll game play. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, McBean said:

Absolutely hilarious and sad that Sean McDermott is just realizing this.

 

Me and other (Few posters) said this all off season. It's why some of us were pounding the table for more weapons added this offseason, upgrade at RB, and shore up the offensive line more.

 

What did Brandon Beane and McDermott do? Defense. Added more and more defense. That's all they've done since arriving in WNY. Boogie Basham our second round pick is in street clothes on Sundays.

 

It's pathetic that we expect 1 player (#17) to do it all AND, continue to not give him more support by adding more weapons.

Last draft lots of Bills fans were disappointed in that #2 pick on Basham when Creed Humphries was sitting there.

 

Funny how Cleveland just gave their best OG a contract extension in the middle of the season...

They also gave an extension to OG Wyatt Teller...two extensions in two days...to their OGs. Hrmmm...

 

 

You don't suppose that the Browns FO realizes that their offense is so dependent on their run game that is currently #5 in rush attempts, #2 in rush yards, #1 rushing TDs, #1 in YPC AVG and all this without a running QB.

 

The Cleveland Browns #1 overall pick at QB sure is dependent on that run game. Browns #30th in pass attempts, 25th in passing yards, 25th in passing TDs.

 

Be nice if someone in the Bills FO realized how important it is have pro bowl OGs on the team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, McBean said:

Absolutely hilarious and sad that Sean McDermott is just realizing this.

 

Me and other (Few posters) said this all off season. It's why some of us were pounding the table for more weapons added this offseason, upgrade at RB, and shore up the offensive line more.

 

What did Brandon Beane and McDermott do? Defense. Added more and more defense. That's all they've done since arriving in WNY. Boogie Basham our second round pick is in street clothes on Sundays.

 

It's pathetic that we expect 1 player (#17) to do it all AND, continue to not give him more support by adding more weapons.

 

 

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that McD is NOT just realizing this.  It's simply a problem he hasn't solved yet and he's just now articulating it.  McD is very cautious about badmouthing coaches or players in public.  The fact that he's speaking out this week suggests that his frustration is mounting.

 

It's not "pathetic" that "all" the expectations are on Allen.  It's just a current realty of the cap and Beane's moves.   When Beane came to the Bills, he knew that the NFL is evolving more and more into a passing league.  So he had two things in mind: get players who can pass the ball and get players who can stop the pass.  Running - doing it or stopping it - was a secondary priority.  There's just enough draft picks or cap money to fix everything. 


So Beane got us a good QB and some good receivers.  He also assembled a defense that's good against the pass.  

 

Unless he's a complete idiot - and he's not - Beane knows this is an imperfect roster.  

 

If Beane had an unlimited number of picks  and unlimited cap money to spend, we'd be in a better place right now.  But all GMs  have to set priorities and make difficult choices.  And because talent evaluation is a predictive art, not a science, all GMs make mistakes along the way.   Beane has  made his share.  Yet here we are atop the AFCE looking for another playoff berth.  

 

 

 

I will add though that in the glory days, the Bills could both run effectively and pass effectively.

 

When Kelly had a bad  day, or the defense  sold out to stop  him, we hit 'em with Thurman.

 

When Thurman had a bad day, or the defense focused on him, Kelly would fill the air with strikes.  

 

I'd love Beane and McD to put together a multidimensional attack like that.  

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Awesome! (+1) 3
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, motorj said:

So is he saying dabs should call more run plays for the rb's instead of being pass happy? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen with this OL

I believe McD wants more offensive formations that keep the defense off balance and give the Oline a better chance at blocking their guy.

 

Perhaps an increase in plays with Allen under center to use play action more and try to get the LBs to hesitate some. 

 

They only had 9 run plays with the RBs last game.  This number will go up but I agree with you.  The Bills strength is passing the ball and they need to throw it more times than not.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BB explains why our offense has sputtered - not directly us just in general why what we're seeing is a problem. 

 

 

 

Our offense was at its worst against Pittsburgh and Jacksonville  - where Josh was completely under seige.  

 

The fact that he was almost the whole game - Pittsburgh was week 1, Jacksonville week 9 - and Daboll wasn't able to make the proper adjustments is disappointing and quite frankly I'd go as far as to say Daboll just flat out gives up on running the ball.

 

That deflates everybody.  When you know and the opposition know that your oline is getting abused, it rips the heart right out of the team. 

 

Not only in the game but likely all 5 are yelling and screaming on the sideline about what's going wrong - when in reality they're just getting their a**** kicked.  Ripple effect thru whole team.  

 

We should have drafted Creed Humphrey instead of Boogie.  Biggest whiff of the draft - which overall looks like a good one.  But that's a glaring mistake.  

Edited by Big Blitz
  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Maiorana's points about mis-evaluation of OLmen are germaine.    As part of that, I feel Beane recognized the issue but felt that Feliciano and Ford were both highly probable to improve with an injury-free off season and that Forrest Lamp was a good "plan C".  Misevaluation.

 

But I don't think he could have predicted both Dawkins and Williams taking a big step back.

 

I know at the DC/OC/HC level, everyone has an Ego and part of being a successful HC is being able to work with Ego.  I don't know how the dynamics of TBD work behind the scenes, obviously.   My frustration is that McDermott has to have been able to see that there's an issue starting before the Pittsburgh game - his reaction suggests that he knew beforehand that there was an issue, and regretted not having tried to address it. 

 

Well, he has to have known there's an issue at least rolling back to the Titans game where our backs gained 51 yards on 13 carries.  So why not address it then? 

 

It's almost like McDermott feels he can't lay down the law and say "fix this" until something shows up as clearly and beyond all argument broken.  But then, as with the run game after the Patriots and Chargers games last season, does he feel he has to back off again and it slides back to the "same ol"?

 

In my opinion, one of the major problems with the run game is that Daboll is like the CDs my bank offers: they both have a "low interest rate".  And it's not in Daboll's interest (see what I did?) to stay in that mindset, because as @JayBaller10  pointed out above, every QB is better with a functional run game.    Brees, Rodgers, Brady, can't think of one where that isn't true.

 

 

 

 

Every QB is better with a functional run game? Maybe. But there have been plenty of great teams and great QBs who have gotten by without very good run games. 

 

I mean, the Bucs were 27th last year in YPC, and 28th in total run yards.

The 2019 Chiefs were 20th in YPC and 23rd in run yards.

The 2014 Pats were 24th in YPC (3.9 YPC)  and 18th in run yards.

Hell, the 2011 Giants were dead last, 32nd in YPC (3.5 YPC) and dead last in run yards 1427 total.

 

Super Bowl winners, all.

 

I'm not saying that a better run game wouldn't help, as I think it would. But I don't think it's necessary. And this year's Bills are 15th in YPC and 16th in run yards. That doesn't tell the story perfectly, of course, they've been pretty awful in a few games, certainly including last week, but again, last week we had two of our OL starters out and one more playing out of position. 

 

I imagine they're working on it, as they should. Being dangerous in many ways should help, as should getting Beasley healthy and Knox back, which should help the short pass game a lot.

 

4 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

Breida is not a legitimate answer hear. Beane messed up not drafting an RB1.

 

 

Our RBs are OK, the problem is mostly the line.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Thank you (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DCbillsfan said:

I believe McD wants more offensive formations that keep the defense off balance and give the Oline a better chance at blocking their guy.

 

Perhaps an increase in plays with Allen under center to use play action more and try to get the LBs to hesitate some. 

 

They only had 9 run plays with the RBs last game.  This number will go up but I agree with you.  The Bills strength is passing the ball and they need to throw it more times than not.

 

The Bills run play action 23.5% of the time.  Add in RPO's and it jumps to 39.8%. The problem with play action is two fold.. one those linebackers don't respect our run game because a. we don't run the football and b. when we do run the football our o line can't block for it most of the time.  Even if one sneaks through its only at best 1 first down.  Not a huge deal.  The second problem with play action is the pass protection has to hold longer than normal.  At least 3 seconds but really 4 seconds min.  Our line holds for 2.1 - 2.4 seconds on average.  

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

We should have drafted Creed Humphrey instead of Boogie.  Biggest whiff of the draft - which overall looks like a good one.  But that's a glaring mistake.  

 

That was my thought going INTO the draft, but it was with the premise that Creed Humphrey could do what Eric Woods did - play G for a year or so and then slide over and take over from Mitch Morse.

 

But when I looked into it further, I could find absolutely no indication that Humphrey had ever played guard in college or had given any indication to scouts about his potential to play guard.  And it's not a given - Morse is not a potential guard, and Feliciano said that playing C is easier physically because "you have help on both sides".

 

So I think drafting Creed Humphrey could well have still left our biggest need this season- improved Guard play - unaddressed.

 

If you want to look at a miss, look at the 5th round, where we "doubled down" at OT by drafting Tommy Doyle, when there were probably some OG who could help us available.  An example being Trey Smith, who is starting for KC and playing so well that they told Laurent Duverney-Tardiff "OK, You May Go Now"

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t think the problem is being too “QB dependent” - I think the issue is they’re too big play-dependent.  Both Allen and Dabs seem to have become addicted to the quick-strike kill shot.  Ever wonder why their drives seem to stall out at the 35-40, right on the cusp of field goal range?  To my eyes it’s because they go for the kill there and end up taking a sack or holding penalty or throwing incomplete into double coverage while waiting for some long route to develop.  Part of the issue is they lack the precision and personnel to convert TDs in the red zone, but they’re well-suited to the 40-yard TD strike - so they rush it. 
 

 

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

The Bills run play action 23.5% of the time.  Add in RPO's and it jumps to 39.8%. The problem with play action is two fold.. one those linebackers don't respect our run game because a. we don't run the football and b. when we do run the football our o line can't block for it most of the time.  Even if one sneaks through its only at best 1 first down.  Not a huge deal.  The second problem with play action is the pass protection has to hold longer than normal.  At least 3 seconds but really 4 seconds min.  Our line holds for 2.1 - 2.4 seconds on average.  

I'm guessing you listened to McD's presser yesterday, what changes/corrections do you believe he is referring to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DCbillsfan said:

I'm guessing you listened to McD's presser yesterday, what changes/corrections do you believe he is referring to?

 

I have not.  I have read the tweets that Yolo posted though.  I have no idea what changes/corrections they are referring to.  I expect they would like to run the football better, block better, maybe not have such a lopsided downfield passing offense and have some shorter quick passing routes in the plan. Whatever it is isn't going to be too significant.  They aren't going to completely change the offense mid season.  Probably more subtle stuff, more fundamental stuff, maybe some different philosophies, different blocking schemes.  I do know that if they run play action/ RPOS 40% of the time that simply adding more of that isn't answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there is the one thing I do not WANT to see happen, it is an overreaction to what happened Sunday -- and a sudden emphasis on trying to force something that just does not equate well to our personnel, etc.

 

Not to revisit past news, but the Jacksonville game was an imperfect storm of inter-related activities:

 

1. The Jags defense played out of their collective minds. They compiled more sacks and turnovers than they had collectively collected in their first 7 games combined.
 

2. The Bills coaches and players will not admit this, but they did not respect the Jags enough going into the game -- and (worse) they failed to respect them during the game. By halftime, it should have been obvious that the flow of the game was such that it was going to be a low-scoring, defensive battle. Points and sure first downs were going to be at a premium. Yet, too many times when in or close to field goal range, the team took foolish risks that cost them. Bass is a definite strength of the team -- and if the coaches had made better use of him, maybe they would have come away with a 12-9 or 15-9 victory (or something like that) -- and the talk of teh game would have been the hapless Jags missing multiple field goals on a single drive.

 

3. Key injuries to underrated players -- especially Brown and Knox. I don't think that there is any question that the offense has struggled without these two.

 

4. Poor OL play. (See #3 above)

 

5. Josh trying on some occasions to wait on a big play rather than settling for an effective check-down. (See #2 above)

 

6. Untimely drops by Sweeney, Davis and Beasley.

 

I agree that a running came would help take some pressure off Josh. I also agree that when Dabol has tried it, he's been half-hearted about it -- especially in the last 3 games. Even this year, the rushing attack has been effective at times -- most notably in closing out the victory over the Chiefs. It may be worth being a bit more patient and consistent with it -- but I also do not want to fall into a series of 3-and-outs because the running game is not working.

 

Also, I find it worth noting the team's overall lack of success on 4th down conversions this season. The obvious one was the failed QB sneak at the end of the Tennessee game. However, there were multiple ones in the Pittsburgh game and the Jacksonville game as well. Meanwhile opponents converted on key 4th down plays against us  in all 3 of those contests. More success there on both sides of the ball and the Bills are 8-0.

  • Awesome! (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

If there is the one thing I do not WANT to see happen, it is an overreaction to what happened Sunday -- and a sudden emphasis on trying to force something that just does not equate well to our personnel, etc.

 

Not to revisit past news, but the Jacksonville game was an imperfect storm of inter-related activities:

 

Fair points but the offense also struggled against the Dolphins. This isn't just a one game slide. The only difference against Miami is we managed to have one good TD drive at the end (the final TD was a gift from the defense). They can't keep doing the same thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, motorj said:

So is he saying dabs should call more run plays for the rb's instead of being pass happy? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen with this OL

 

I think McDermott is saying that the OL we have, needs to be more "physical at the point of attack" (don't remember if Wawrow quoted it, but McD said it).  That's what he means about “You cannot lose sight of the core aspects of the game of football.”

 

He's being deliberately vague about what else he wants to see, but the design of the run blocking for the runplays called, playcalling and communication on the OL to be sure everyone is on the same play, calling run plays that best match the skill sets of the backs and the OL are all places where there ought to be room to improve with the current Cast of Characters

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Callers who said this were run off the air after Week One.

 

The Bills have become dependent on Allen, not as far as Seattle has with Wilson, but dependent.

 

He is asked to dodge pressure, overcome no run game, be the leading rusher, pass 47 times a game, see every check down, yet stay aggressive.

 

My one beef with Allen is he tends to be loose with the football in terms of fumbles. 
 

But he gives it absolutely everything he has to win every week. 

Exactly right. What more can we ask of him? A lot of that stuff just comes with the territory of being a starting QB, be he is dodging free rushers on almost every single play. It's ridiculous.

 

And with defenders in his face actively hitting him, fans say "well, he should have hit that open receiver or checked it down" like it's a simple thing.

 

I'm fine with asking him to do a lot, but you have to protect him, at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this quote from McDermott is really telling:

 

Quote

“You cannot lose sight of the core aspects of the game of football.”

This quote is McDermott critiquing himself.   By implication, at least some on his team have lost sight of physicality being a core aspect of the game.  If players have lost sight, which at least some undoubtedly have, then their coaches are failing at their job.  And if their coaches are failing at theirs, McDermott is failing at his.   I am certain he would freely admit that is true. 

 

I keep trying to compare McDermott to Belichick.   Belichick lives in the core aspects of the game.   His teams never lose sight of the need to be physical.  His teams bring it every week, with everything they have.   And, by the way, the latest glamour-boy in the league is Mike Vrabel, for exactly that reason.  

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

Well, I'm glad he's willing to acknowledge what everyone can see.  Let's see if they can get things turned around in the next few weeks.  Jets' defense has to be licking their chops right now.

It's about time someone admits Josh cannot be expected to be 100% of the offense. Kick the butts of these olineman. Get more TE's on the LOS.  Tell Singletary and Moss to attack the holes faster. If you're stuck facing cover 2 shell than have a plan.

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a bull**** comment by McD.

 

Some might respond with excuses on why he is right and why I should care.  

 

To be clear, he is not right and I don't care.

 

If the only thing this line could do is pick its nose and pass block among the elite in this league you could ride Josh to anywhere on this planet, including the next super bowl given the success they had with it last year.

 

They can save the nose picking for after they get there.  

 

The committee of 300 passing and 100 or so on the ground from 3 guys running can carry the day, almost every day.  But the horses pulling the rig are flailing. 

 

I hated getting rid of Teller and I am tired of the beat down I get from bringing it up.  They want to turn around some of what is going wrong, then how about not blaming your successes and point instead to YOUR actual mistakes and don't do them again.  My buddy was spitting nickels when they didn't take Humphrey over Boogie.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

I said that not too long ago.  They need an all purpose back they can really lean on and a line that open holes for said RB.

 

Balance.

They’d be better off with a rb that is an absolute stud in pass protection and can catch the ball…I think the combination of moss leaving the game,Knox being out and missing two decent offensive linemen was just too much for us to handle in this one. We look like an entirely different team with Knox out there. 

4 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Simple fixes.  Daboll spamming passes caught some teams off guard last year.  This year teams expect it. 

I’m confused how people see this…we are calling runs they are just going backwards lol any time our rbs have a nice carry it involves breaking at least 2 tackles.  we don’t have the most important offensive weapon against cover 2 because he broke his hand in the titans game and that is the difference. Knox was going off all season. The two games he’s missed have been a struggle 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I think this quote from McDermott is really telling:

 

This quote is McDermott critiquing himself.   By implication, at least some on his team have lost sight of physicality being a core aspect of the game.  If players have lost sight, which at least some undoubtedly have, then their coaches are failing at their job.  And if their coaches are failing at theirs, McDermott is failing at his.   I am certain he would freely admit that is true. 

 

I keep trying to compare McDermott to Belichick.   Belichick lives in the core aspects of the game.   His teams never lose sight of the need to be physical.  His teams bring it every week, with everything they have.   And, by the way, the latest glamour-boy in the league is Mike Vrabel, for exactly that reason.  

 

“You cannot lose sight of the core aspects of the game of football.”

 

This quote is a little mysterious but I do not believe he was critiquing himself.  I think he was bemoaning the lack of push by the offensive line. 

 

I believe McDermott understands that finesse is great but football is ultimately a physical game and you have to be able to impose your will on your opponent.  The Bills didn't do that in the 4th and 1 at Tennessee.  And failed all game against the Jags.  

 

I'm not sure how, at this point in the season, you make your OL more physical.   He promises adjustments are coming.  We'll see.

 

Clearly in the offseason, we need to sign/draft different players.  

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I believe McDermott understands that finesse is great but football is ultimately a physical game and you have to be able to impose your will on your opponent.  The Bills didn't do that in the 4th and 1 at Tenny 

 And failed all game against the Jags.  


McD / Daboll blew both games 

 

go for the FG and live to play another down 

 

IF the 4th and goal sneak had worked in Tenny,  McD would have been profusely praised for it.  

Edited by SlimShady'sSpaceForce
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

It's not from McD, it's from Wawrow.

 

 

Thank you for the correction, LaGOAT.

 

If Wawrow said it then my same comment goes to him, regardless of his power to control anything, which thankfully he doesn't.

 

Side note, Pats win and a Bills loss and I believe we are on the outside looking in as Pats would be the division leader and the Bengals would leap frog us for the final wild card spot.

 

Never expected this and hopefully it doesn't come to pass.

Edited by dollars 2 donuts
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Offensive line play determine our fate.  I really don’t think anything else matters.  Referees and play calling will also have some influence.  Our D is good.  It’s just not good enough to completely make up for some of the worst OL play we’ve seen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Thank you for the correction, LaGOAT.

 

If Wawrow said it than my same comment goes to him, regardless of his power to control anything, which thankfully he doesn't.

 

Side note, Pats win and a Bills loss and I believe we are on the outside looking in as Pats would be the division leader and the Bengals would leap frog us for te final wild card spot.

 

Never expected this and hopefully it doesn't come to pass.

Yeah. First thing's first, just win the division. The Pats are gonna be tough. Before the season, I predicted the Bills splitting games with the Pats and Jets.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

We allocated alot of resources again to the defense this off season and really only got Manny Sanders for the O…no TE depth…the quality of our backs…believing in this group of olinemen…Glad Sean recognizes in Week 10 that maybe having a QB that has to be Superman every week isn’t a good idea 

He realized that already. He's preached complimentary football since 2017. The reality is that no team can play complimentary football 100% of the time. They always have to make adjustments.

 

I think you're post illustrates their miscalculations with a number of their players: Feliciano, Boettger, Ford, Sweeney... they probably could have better players ahead of these guys. And the struggles have been magnified by the dip in consistency from Dawkins.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a very specific reason to revive this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...