[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[BuffaloBill]

14 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Since it's a 10 year old e-mail I don't know that it warrants discipline (although it's not like 2011 was exactly the Jim Crow era). But he's going to have a hard time facing some of his players after they read that comment.

 

 

But the point mad in the writing in the Yahoo link is that Gruden has kept on digging a hole for himself. 

[Mr. WEO]

10 hours ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

You have the language of his contract? 

 

nope

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Grades is going to get canceled 

[Rico]

Let’s see: 

 

Lips aren’t that big at all. He looks quite dapper!

 

Sorry Chucky, I do not agree. 

[uticaclub]

5 hours ago, todd said:

 
Yes, it is ok. Mocking gruden because he looks like chucky is not insulting someone because of a racial stereotype. Mocking Smith because of a Black person’s stereotypical attributes is. It’s disgusting. Crazy that people don’t know this. 
 

Would you walk up to a Black person and insult them this way? Hopefully not. You probably know this is wrong, and are just talking crap on the internet.

I wouldn't just walk up to anyone and insult them, but mocking a white person, is ok, but mocking a black person is never ok. Got it. You know this is wrong and you are just trying to be “woke”

 

Whatever your definition of equality is, the timing seems fishy, the email was sent 10 years and yet comes to light there's a vote if Smith keeps his job or not.

Edited October 9, 2021 by uticaclub

[SCBills]

5 hours ago, todd said:

 
Yes, it is ok. Mocking gruden because he looks like chucky is not insulting someone because of a racial stereotype. Mocking Smith because of a Black person’s stereotypical attributes is. It’s disgusting. Crazy that people don’t know this. 
 

Would you walk up to a Black person and insult them this way? Hopefully not. You probably know this is wrong, and are just talking crap on the internet.

Would you walk up to a white person and call them a cracker?  
 

Antonio Brown did and he’s not out of a job.  And I’m glad he’s not, because it’s not that big of a deal.  
 

And neither is what Gruden said. 
 

The only people who care, are those searching to be offended.. and sadly, that may be enough right now.  
 

Edited October 9, 2021 by SCBills

[uticaclub]

3 hours ago, Buffalo ill said:

Other than a complete lack of desire or qualifications, I know I could never run for any office.  I'm sure some dumbassed photo or message board comment from 20 years ago will pop up.

I don't know you, but your probably qualified. 

[aristocrat]

well that's one way for the raiders to get out of that contract. save ol mark 60 mil and maybe now he can afford a real hair stylist and wont have to take southwest air anymore. 

[Patrick Duffy]

Wonder how some of the Raiders players take this and if could have an affect on things going forward after their good start

[buffaloboyinATL]

He wrote that when he was 10 years old?! He should get a pass since he was so young.  

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

I wouldn't just walk up to anyone and insult them, but mocking a white person, is ok, but mocking a black person is never ok. Got it. You know this is wrong and you are just trying to be “woke”

 

Whatever your definition of equality is, the timing seems fishy, the email was sent 10 years and yet comes to light there's a vote if Smith keeps his job or not.

Insulting people is insulting people, I'd say making racially derogatory statements is worse. For example Gruden could of said this guy fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down and it wouldn't of been as bad. Then again I kind of think you know this and are just being purposely obtuse.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Once again the old adage … keep it simple just call em an a-hole.

 

I honestly don’t believe anyone who is truly racist could survive as a coach in the NFL. 

[Success]

Stupid comment, but let he who is without sin & all that.  I really don't like the trend of people making a mistake and having their whole lives judged for it.  I hate to call it "cancel culture" because that makes it so political, but we've become a pretty unforgiving society.  

 

[uticaclub]

59 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Insulting people is insulting people, I'd say making racially derogatory statements is worse. For example Gruden could of said this guy fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down and it wouldn't of been as bad. Then again I kind of think you know this and are just being purposely obtuse.

Or they would say he was comparing Smith to monkey for living in a tree. Stop being offended by everything and then maybe we can make actual progress. The real issue is that Smith kept his job.

Edited October 9, 2021 by uticaclub

[Mango]

This one is a lot. All of us do or say something racist at some point. The good ones own the mistake, apologize, and learn. Sometimes that may cost us a friend, job, opportunity, etc. 

 

The statement itself isn’t nearly as bad as his BS’ing afterwards. He’s basically gaslighting everybody.

 

If you say something racist, following it up with “I am not racist” does not make it any better or true. 
 

For perspective I believe there were reports that JA17 cried when those tweets surfaced because he thought that people might think he’s racist. Josh coming across as racist to his peers who are largely POC was important to him. No BS. No fluff. It was wrong. Hoping and working for forgiveness. 
 

On the other side, you can’t forgive Gruden. Because according to Gruden he didn’t do anything wrong because he told you he isn’t racist. 
 

Guys like Gruden aren’t worth any bodies time. They are generally pretty toxic individuals in most situations. 

[Warcodered]

23 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Or they would say he was comparing Smith to monkey for living in a tree. Stop being offended by everything and then maybe we can make actual progress. The real issue is that Smith kept his job.

Like I said purposely obtuse.

[todd]

3 hours ago, uticaclub said:

I wouldn't just walk up to anyone and insult them, but mocking a white person, is ok, but mocking a black person is never ok. Got it. You know this is wrong and you are just trying to be “woke”

Read my post, that’s not what I said. You are also wrong. That’s also a non-sequitur argument.  Sorry, not taking the bait. 
 

[What a Tuel]

9 hours ago, todd said:

No. This is not the “race card”. This is someone insulting someone using a racial stereotype. It is designed to denigrate someone based on the racial stereotype of Black people having large lips. It’s a pretty disgusting thing to say by Gruden. It is absolutely a racist statement.
 

I’m actually sad that a fellow bills fan doesn’t see that.

 

Kind of like pasty white people?

 

It is absurd that a comment can be twisted to mean Gruden secretly hates a specific race. Sometimes an insult is just an insult because he doesnt like the guy.

Edited October 9, 2021 by What a Tuel

[Fred Slacks]

Well everyone on here is writing like they’ve never in their life said something offensive to another person ever. While I don’t condone racism, sexism, or any type of hate, I certainly am not naive enough to believe this type of conversation or negative comments aren’t made on a regular basis. It wasn’t so long ago where people would make racist jokes amongst each other in the locker room and would laugh at them. That doesn’t mean that it should have ever been that way but people are going to say crap like this.  
 

Another issue is should emails be that readily admissible?  Isn’t that similar to wire tapping?  If Gruden knew his emails would be read down the line I’m guessing he would have proof read it before hitting send. 
 

Ultimately it was a poor choice of words. My opinion is his excuse of rubber lips is BS. For me though I just get sick of everyone being so quick to judgement. Unfortunately it sounds really bad. For selfish reasons though I don’t want Gruden suspended because I think he makes the Raiders worse. 😂

[bigduke6]

im confused,  does D Smith not have extremely large lips for a human being?   is simply pointing out a body feature racist now?    im extremely anti racist,  i dont particularly care for Gruden either,  but is this really something to get worked up about?   mbe i didnt catch the context of the statement.

[frostbitmic]

I think I'll choose something more important to be offended about other than what one ####### says to, or about another #######.

[Warcodered]

29 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

im confused,  does D Smith not have extremely large lips for a human being?   is simply pointing out a body feature racist now?    im extremely anti racist,  i dont particularly care for Gruden either,  but is this really something to get worked up about?   mbe i didnt catch the context of the statement.

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Fred Slacks said:

Well everyone on here is writing like they’ve never in their life said something offensive to another person ever. While I don’t condone racism, sexism, or any type of hate, I certainly am not naive enough to believe this type of conversation or negative comments aren’t made on a regular basis. It wasn’t so long ago where people would make racist jokes amongst each other in the locker room and would laugh at them. That doesn’t mean that it should have ever been that way but people are going to say crap like this.  
 

Another issue is should emails be that readily admissible?  Isn’t that similar to wire tapping?  If Gruden knew his emails would be read down the line I’m guessing he would have proof read it before hitting send. 
 

Ultimately it was a poor choice of words. My opinion is his excuse of rubber lips is BS. For me though I just get sick of everyone being so quick to judgement. Unfortunately it sounds really bad. For selfish reasons though I don’t want Gruden suspended because I think he makes the Raiders worse. 😂

A couple things:

 

I agree. Racist commentary was largely acceptable for a period of time, especially in locker rooms. Largely among white people like myself. I in my younger days have partaken, regrettably so. I do not consider myself racist. But I did say racist things. I am more concerned with no longer doing racist things than I am with being considered a racist if that makes sense. 
 

Gruden said a racist thing. Does it make him racist? Maybe? But it seems like Gruden and those similar are more concerned with telling you they are not racist, rather than just trying not to be a total dick. 
 

In regards to emails. If you are sending emails from or to a company email, you need to be prepared to defend it. Period. No different than mailing me a letter. Once you send it to me, it is mine. It’s 2021, almost 2022, this should be common knowledge and practice. Don’t put anything in writhing anywhere if you can’t or won’t defend it. 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Mango

[Fred Slacks]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

A couple things:

 

I agree. Racist commentary was largely acceptable for a period of time, especially in locker rooms. Largely among white people like myself. I in my younger days have partaken, regrettably so. I do not consider myself racist. But I did say racist things. I am more concerned with no longer doing racist things than I am with being considered a racist if that makes sense. 
 

Gruden said a racist thing. Does it make him racist? Maybe? But it seems like Gruden and those similar are more concerned with telling you they are not racist, rather than just trying not to be a total dick. 
 

In regards to emails. If you are sending emails from or two a company email, you need to be prepared to defend it. Period. No different than mailing me a letter. Once you send it to me, it is mine. It’s 2021, almost 2022, this should be common knowledge and practice. Don’t put anything in writhing anywhere if you can’t or won’t defend it. 

Totally agree. I guess my main point is if you’re a douche then you’re a douche. Gruden is a douche. It’s well known. I think what he said was most likely a douchey comment/racist slander. In no way do I think he’s racist. I think he just said it cause he’s a douche. I just think this is going to be blown up like Gruden is a Klan member when in reality he’s just an A hole and that’s already been established through years of watching him. 
 

my 2 cents and I realize I may get flamed. 

[bigduke6]

29 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

are we positive he was pointing it out for purely racial reasons?   or are we continuing the overreaction culture this society has thrown upon us?

was it worded in such a way that absolutely meant racism?   how bout i dont google anything.  how bout im well aware of racial caricatures and stereotypes.  

how bout im tired of people not being able to make factual statements without the conspiracy theorists rising up and advancing some cause they have,  just cuz they haz a feeling of some underlying meaning whether true or not.  

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by bigduke6

[Paulus]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:33 PM, flaz said:

Racist comments found during an NFL into the WFT

Mods, please remove if already posted somewhere 

I haven't found a link but our local ESPN radio just broke this, to my knowledge 

Man, I thought they dug up an email 10 year old Gruden sent when he was a kid. Would have made this story 100x better.

[uticaclub]

35 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

So we can't point out Italians wear leather jackets and drive late model Cadillacs and that Irish are drunks or they still fair game? Sterotypes exist for a reason. Grow up

Edited October 9, 2021 by uticaclub

[Paulus]

1 hour ago, bigduke6 said:

im confused,  does D Smith not have extremely large lips for a human being?   is simply pointing out a body feature racist now?    im extremely anti racist,  i dont particularly care for Gruden either,  but is this really something to get worked up about?   mbe i didnt catch the context of the statement.

 

Maybe, Goodell has small lips.

[What a Tuel]

41 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

How about everyone who doesn't seem to get it just Googles "racist black caricature" and see if you can't connect the dots.

 

If you find his comment to be a caricature then fine, you think it was offensive. Why does it go from a single offensive comment in which he was making fun of someone he disliked to labeling Gruden a racist with the implication that he hates black people, and should lose his job, and be shunned by society?

 

I realize you yourself may not have suggested the above, but plenty of outraged people are. 

 

Its mob justice that is applying punitive damages based on their perception of what he thinks at this point. There should be some legal protection for this. A mob of people should not be dispensing "justice"

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by What a Tuel

[Warcodered]

13 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

are we positive he was pointing it out for purely racial reasons?   or are we continuing the overreaction culture this society has thrown upon us?

was it worded in such a way that absolutely meant racism?   how bout i dont google anything.  how bout im well aware of racial caricatures and stereotypes.  

how bout im tired of people not being able to make factual statements without the conspiracy theorists rising up and advancing some cause they have,  just cuz they haz a feeling of some underlying meaning whether true or not.  

 

So to summarize your theory is he was just casually commenting on the size of another man's lips....as one does?

16 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

So we can't point out Italians wear leather jackets and drive late model Cadillacs and that Irish are drunks or they still fair game? Sterotypes exist for a reason. Grow up

Yeah I'm going to disagree with you on the merits of stereotyping.

6 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

If you find his comment to be a caricature then fine, you think it was offensive. Why does it go from a single offensive comment in which he was making fun of someone he disliked to labeling Gruden a racist with the implication that he hates black people, and should lose his job, and be shunned by society?

 

I realize you yourself may not have suggested the above, but plenty of outraged people are. 

 

Its mob justice that is applying punitive damages based on their perception of what he thinks at this point. There should be some legal protection for this. A mob of people should not be dispensing "justice"

 

The mob has no authority, can ownership/the league make decisions in response to their feelings sure.

[What a Tuel]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

The mob has no authority, can ownership/the league make decisions in response to their feelings sure.

 

Thats a joke and you know it so long as profit driven companies find it easier to appease the mob than to go against them. At the end of the day its not justice though, it is punitive damages being assigned based on people's feelings.

[stuvian]

wokism wasn't yet invented in 2010

[klos63]

3 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

are we positive he was pointing it out for purely racial reasons?   or are we continuing the overreaction culture this society has thrown upon us?

was it worded in such a way that absolutely meant racism?   how bout i dont google anything.  how bout im well aware of racial caricatures and stereotypes.  

how bout im tired of people not being able to make factual statements without the conspiracy theorists rising up and advancing some cause they have,  just cuz they haz a feeling of some underlying meaning whether true or not.  

 

Let's not be blind here, would he make that comment about a white guy? Doubtful. I don't think Gruden will lose his job, I don't think he should. But 2011 isn't that long ago and it was a stupid thing to say and quite offensive. It seems that for some people, those getting offended by a terrible statement are the problem, not the person saying it.

It seems like the league and the Raiders are dealing with it quietly, internally, which is appropriate. People like you are the ones overreacting. This will play out and we'll get a resolution, then it's fair to debate. But to get upset because people don't react the way you want them to is pretty silly.

[bigduke6]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Let's not be blind here, would he make that comment about a white guy? Doubtful. I don't think Gruden will lose his job, I don't think he should. But 2011 isn't that long ago and it was a stupid thing to say and quite offensive. It seems that for some people, those getting offended by a terrible statement are the problem, not the person saying it.

It seems like the league and the Raiders are dealing with it quietly, internally, which is appropriate. People like you are the ones overreacting. This will play out and we'll get a resolution, then it's fair to debate. But to get upset because people don't react the way you want them to is pretty silly.

upset?  youre way overreaching there.......and  overreacting.....cmon.  lol ffs...

yer trying too hard.

Edited October 10, 2021 by bigduke6

[klos63]

36 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

upset?  youre way overreaching there.......and  overreacting.....cmon.  lol ffs...

yer trying too hard.

well, compared to you, Yeah, I am trying hard.  You're just regurgitating the same old 'conspiracy theorists' BS which takes no amount of effort or brainpower.

[MJS]

Gruden was sending racist emails when he was 10?

 

That's pretty darn impressive, actually.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I think Gruden is telling the truth here. 

 

It's pretty convoluted for Gruden to say that he's always called liars "rubber lips" so he's calling Smith a huge liar by saying he has Michelin lips. 

 

Gruden isn't smart enough to come up with an excuse like that. 

[JMF2006]

My GF has a set of thin lips and a set of fat lips

 

Does saying this make me a sexist?  

[todd]

15 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Kind of like pasty white people?

 

It is absurd that a comment can be twisted to mean Gruden secretly hates a specific race. Sometimes an insult is just an insult because he doesnt like the guy.

 

I don't think I wrote that Gruden hated black people. Read again. I said his comment was racist and disgusting. Usually arguments against racist tropes involve twisting things like you did.

[Billzgobowlin]

So what would make this racist is if all people of color have big lips which is not the case.  Was it a stupid thing to say?  Absolutely.  Was it racist?  I think that is a stretch from race baiters who try to make every statement racist

Edited October 10, 2021 by Billzgobowlin