Taiwan Jones - Elite Gunner and now Captain

[Freddie's Dead]

[TheyCallMeAndy]

#BAMF

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Seen a few posters say the same before. Have wondered about it myself. Coaches appear to be happy with him at MLB though. Don't know if they have ever attempted to try him at OLB in practice or anything, but it does kinda make you curious if he'd be better there.

 

The whole "Edmunds would be much better at OLB than MLB" appears premised upon the theory that observant, football-knowledgeable fans on a message board have superior player evaluation and football acumen to guys who are paid multi-millions per year by professional teams to evaluate players and win football games.

 

Huh.

 

In defense of this theory, the Bills had years during The Drought (aka the Long Mediocrity) when arguably, a group of knowledgeable observant fans off this board could quite likely have drafted better, and possibly coached better.

 

On the other hand, now that the Bills have had winning seasons and gone to the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, I think this theory is open to question.

 

Maybe Edmunds is playing MLB, a team captain, and just had his 5th year option picked up because he's doing what McDermott wants of him, more often than not (of course, McDermott wants more)

[Blainorama5]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Interesting so it's 

3 Defense

2 Offense

3 Special Teams.

The offense is so good they only need TWO Captains!!  🤪

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

No Jerry - his wife not amused 

 

 

Jerry's been a Capt before - he'll get over it.  His wife... ? ....  maybe not.

[ColoradoBills]

Tyler "Dirty Red" Matakevich is the Lead Captain on Special Teams IMO.

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

A lot of our senior leadership on the team is on defense and I do feel like they specifically try to spread it between the 3 phases.

I feel every team has 2 ST Captain's

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Seen a few posters say the same before. Have wondered about it myself. Coaches appear to be happy with him at MLB though. Don't know if they have ever attempted to try him at OLB in practice or anything, but it does kinda make you curious if he'd be better there.

 

He calls the plays, he's got the headset, and he and the safeties make the checks.  Him and Milano both do a lot of the same things when they're in nickel.  As for their standard 4-3, putting him at Will would put milano at mike where he's undersized.  

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Process said:

Do players vote for captains, or coaches decide? Jerry should be a captain without a doubt. 

 

3 hours ago, SWATeam said:

It is very odd

Just because he is oldest? I like players they chose on defense.

2 hours ago, DJB said:

Edmunds captain? 

 

Like is it more of a participation badge or something in his case? 

Captain almost every year. I guess the organization likes him more than you.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The whole "Edmunds would be much better at OLB than MLB" appears premised upon the theory that observant, football-knowledgeable fans on a message board have superior player evaluation and football acumen to guys who are paid multi-millions per year by professional teams to evaluate players and win football games.

 

Huh.

 

In defense of this theory, the Bills had years during The Drought (aka the Long Mediocrity) when arguably, a group of knowledgeable observant fans off this board could quite likely have drafted better, and possibly coached better.

 

On the other hand, now that the Bills have had winning seasons and gone to the playoffs 3 of the last 4 years, I think this theory is open to question.

 

Maybe Edmunds is playing MLB, a team captain, and just had his 5th year option picked up because he's doing what McDermott wants of him, more often than not (of course, McDermott wants more)

I like how you tied it to the scars of our past.
 

Yes a solid 45% of this board could run the organization better than Rex. 😉 

 

not so much now. These guys are tops and the only thing Rex is running is his mouth, as appropriate. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I like how you tied it to the scars of our past.
 

Yes a solid 45% of this board could run the organization better than Rex. 😉 

 

not so much now. These guys are tops and the only thing Rex is running is his mouth, as appropriate. 

 

He's what, the best MLB buffalo has had since probably Fletcher?  And fletcher's career kind of coincides with adams/williams as his DTs, and playing alongside takeo.

 

Poz was known for a lot of the same problems in the run game, and wasn't as capable in pass coverage.  Preston Brown was a jag.  Kelvin Sheppard is known as the guy we traded to get hughes.  Kiko had some flash, but as we've seen with him since he left buffalo he is not very good.  Mitchell, Barnett, Spikes, shall i continue? 

[First Round Bust]

Joe Gibbs  on his great run with the skins back in the day, said we will never be out-captained, psycho edge more than anything...some locker room cred for some leadership...but on a more important note I think McD has a players leadership group or used to ?  to help with communication and points of emphasis which would be helpful with culture, communication and two-way feedback coach(es) and team...

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Maybe Edmunds is playing MLB, a team captain, and just had his 5th year option picked up because he's doing what McDermott wants of him, more often than not (of course, McDermott wants more)

 

 

Or maybe they have invested so much time on the assumption that he would become a great MLB that even if he's been a disappointment they would need someone to step up and take the job before they moved him and went thru THAT learning curve of converting him to a pass rusher or a less cognitively demanding off-ball position.

 

His defenders assume they are thrilled with his play........but if you recall last season McDermott said in a mid-season PC that Edmunds needed to play better.............an extremely rare public criticism of a player of any kind from McD.

 

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

58 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I like how you tied it to the scars of our past.
 

Yes a solid 45% of this board could run the organization better than Rex. 😉 

 

not so much now. These guys are tops and the only thing Rex is running is his mouth, as appropriate. 

 

 

The whole "they were right for putting Edmunds at MLB because they are more capable of running the organization" argument is a false equivalency.

 

Individual moves can still be wrong..........philosophies can be wrong.........and sometimes they convene like the Kelvin Benjamin trade.

 

Try to keep in mind that the McBeane of 2017-2018 is not necessarily the same quality of decision maker that the seasoned 2021 version is.

 

For example........ McDermott effectively trading Patrick Mahomes..........the league's most valued player for 3 years running........to an AFC rival and having that rival win a SB and reach another directly at the expense of the Bills.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[billsfan89]

One thing that has separated McBeane from past administrations is the attention to detail on the roster. In the past the team would just be satisfied with mediocre or average players in niche positions. Or they would pay a dramatic premium for returners and special teams specialists. The Bills have swung a nice balance of getting good value on the edges of the roster. Overpaying here and there but not too dramatically that they can't invest in key areas. Jones and the other critical ST players are really a good example of that. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Or maybe they have invested so much time on the assumption that he would become a great MLB that even if he's been a disappointment they would need someone to step up and take the job before they moved him and went thru THAT learning curve of converting him to a pass rusher or a less cognitively demanding off-ball position.

 

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The whole "they were right for putting Edmunds at MLB because they are more capable of running the organization" argument is a false equivalency.

 

Individual moves can still be wrong..........philosophies can be wrong.........and sometimes they convene like the Kelvin Benjamin trade.

 

Yes, it is true that coaches and FO can make mistakes - in fact, will make mistakes

However, successful coaches and FO pivot from those mistakes and move on

 

That's why Peterman lasted 1 half vs. the Chargers in 2017 (and McDermott reportedly told the team he'd made a mistake) and 1 half vs. the Ravens in 2018

That's why Fat Kelvin met the Turk partway through 2018

 

I'm just asking which is more plausible:

That professional football talent evaluators and coaches who have demonstrably pivoted from their own previous mistakes, are for some reason, this time, clinging to a guy who is unsatisfactory at his position because "they have invested so much time", while casual dudes on a football forum have superior acumen? 

 

Or that Edmunds is, in fact, doing a better job of what McDermott expects him to do than his detractors assert?

 

Quote

His defenders assume they are thrilled with his play........but if you recall last season McDermott said in a mid-season PC that Edmunds needed to play better.............an extremely rare public criticism of a player of any kind from McD.

 

What McDermott was asked, was whether the team needed more "splash plays" or "impact plays" from Edmunds, and he said "yes" (which is not quite the same as saying he needs to play better). 

 

Later in the season, he said that Edmunds had developed some poor technique as a result of his injury and he had worked to fix it and was playing much better.

[Gugny]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

For example........ McDermott effectively trading Patrick Mahomes..........the league's most valued player for 3 years running........to an AFC rival and having that rival win a SB and reach another directly at the expense of the Bills.

 

I wonder if this is ever going to get as old to you as it is for every other person who spends time on this board.

 

Let it ***** go, man.

[BuffBillsForLife]

Edmunds is perfectly qualified to be a starting MLB in the NFL, but I don't consider him to be at all elite.  The (apparent) disconnect between McBeane and the fanbase with regards to Edmunds can largely be traced back to how front offices are often married to their 1st round picks, especially if they traded up to get them like with Edmunds while fans usually don't care about that at all.

 

Moving Edmunds to OLB has always been a non-starter, especially after paying Milano.  Remember that nickel is pretty much the base defense nowadays and I think the notion of having Milano on the sidelines while Edmunds is out there wouldn't be very popular.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… it’s stupid to just put everything in a vacuum because they brought overall success to the franchise… doesn’t mean they haven’t made mistakes(and aren’t still making them) or are being stubborn with certain players/positions. 
 

They hit huge on Allen. It’s by far, the biggest reason this GM/HC group have been so successful. 

True it is the major reason. Although could also put the Defense as a part of being successful too. D was a big part in the 2017 playoff appearance. Then 2019 D was one of the top also.

 

But yes I agree, Josh is the biggest for sure

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

Yes, it is true that coaches and FO can make mistakes - in fact, will make mistakes

However, successful coaches and FO pivot from those mistakes and move on

 

That's why Peterman lasted 1 half vs. the Chargers in 2017 (and McDermott reportedly told the team he'd made a mistake) and 1 half vs. the Ravens in 2018

That's why Fat Kelvin met the Turk partway through 2018

 

I'm just asking which is more plausible:

That professional football talent evaluators and coaches who have demonstrably pivoted from their own previous mistakes, are for some reason, this time, clinging to a guy who is unsatisfactory at his position because "they have invested so much time", while casual dudes on a football forum have superior acumen? 

 

Or that Edmunds is, in fact, doing a better job of what McDermott expects him to do than his detractors assert?

 

 

What McDermott was asked, was whether the team needed more "splash plays" or "impact plays" from Edmunds, and he said "yes" (which is not quite the same as saying he needs to play better). 

 

Later in the season, he said that Edmunds had developed some poor technique as a result of his injury and he had worked to fix it and was playing much better.

 

 

1)  Edmunds isn't unsatisfactory..........he's disappointing.

 

There is a difference.

 

He is a top 10-12 MLB/ILB...........it's just that he's in a league of his own physically at the position so not being elite is a disappointment.

 

The fact that they haven't found a better option than that is not surprising.........I don't think they have had another LB on the roster who was drafted higher than round 5 since Edmunds arrived.

 

 

2) Needing to make more big plays = needing to play better.

 

When you "need" something it's not optional or just "nice to have".

 

It was rare for McD to answer such a question so plain and directly.

 

People make the injury excuse for Edmunds as well.........but on the play that he was injured he took a poor angle that lead to him whiffing,  missing a tackle that he should have been in position to make......resulting in a long TD and crashing to the ground causing the injury.    

 

In subsequent questioning after he answered a resounding "YES" to Edmunds needing to make more plays McDermott placed the blame for Edmunds struggles in other areas(recognition/decisiveness) of his work than injury.

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

He's what, the best MLB buffalo has had since probably Fletcher?  And fletcher's career kind of coincides with adams/williams as his DTs, and playing alongside takeo.

 

Poz was known for a lot of the same problems in the run game, and wasn't as capable in pass coverage.  Preston Brown was a jag.  Kelvin Sheppard is known as the guy we traded to get hughes.  Kiko had some flash, but as we've seen with him since he left buffalo he is not very good.  Mitchell, Barnett, Spikes, shall i continue? 

 
maybe.. don’t like historical comps but he is perfect in this defense. He’s a little weak vs run but in middle zone pass defense he takes away a ton of field with his size athleticism and range. 
 

a lot of folks don’t understand the scheme and think like ‘70s mlbs hes supposed to roam and take on the rb. That’s not this defense 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 
maybe.. don’t like historical comps but he is perfect in this defense. He’s a little weak vs run but in middle zone pass defense he takes away a ton of field with his size athleticism and range. 
 

a lot of folks don’t understand the scheme and think like ‘70s mlbs hes supposed to roam and take on the rb. That’s not this defense 

 

The amount teams use play action, and RPOs - if you shoot gaps like they did in the ray lewis days you're going to get burned a lot over the middle.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

 Who needs a “C” when there’s a hat for that? 
 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

40 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

The amount teams use play action, and RPOs - if you shoot gaps like they did in the ray lewis days you're going to get burned a lot over the middle.  

That’s exactly right. Shooting the wrong gap instead of your assignment and fit and Leslie gets cranky 

[YoloinOhio]

6 hours ago, Process said:

Do players vote for captains, or coaches decide? Jerry should be a captain without a doubt. 

Diggs said that the players vote

[The Dean]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I feel every team has 2 ST Captain's

 

 

The Steelers only have 3 Captains this year. ONE on Offense, Defense and ST.

 

While I don't really give a damn how many captains a team names, 8 seems like overkill to me. 

[billybrew1]

Taiwan was a captain in 2018 I read elsewhere.....

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Last year's captains:

https://www.buffalobills.com/news/bills-elect-these-team-captains-for-the-2020-season

 

Josh, Dawkins

Poyer, Hughes, Edmunds

Ferguson, Roberts

 

2019:

Josh, Dawkins

Edmunds, Alexander

Ferguson, Hauschka

 

So we're trending up in # of captains, from 6 to 7 to 8

Which I think is a little strange, but whatever...

It simply shows that the team has a lot more leaders and hence more ownership and accountability.  The signs of a mature team

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, billybrew1 said:

Taiwan was a captain in 2018 I read elsewhere.....

He was a ST captain for the Bills in ‘18. 

[Rico]

I have no problem at all with Taiwan or anyone else on this team being named captain, especially if it was voted on by the players.

 

Now, Chris Kelsay being named captain 3x in the drought-era when all he knew was how to lose… that’s a different story. 

[Patrick Duffy]

55 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes, 2019 defense played good all year…. The Mickey Mouse QBs they played certainly helped.

 Defense was good in 2017 too. Or you chalking that up to mickey mouse QBs also?

Edited September 7, 2021 by Sheneneh Jenkins

[DJB]

6 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Seen a few posters say the same before. Have wondered about it myself. Coaches appear to be happy with him at MLB though. Don't know if they have ever attempted to try him at OLB in practice or anything, but it does kinda make you curious if he'd be better there.

 

I honestly think he and Milano should flip spots. 

[Big Blitz]

7 hours ago, Process said:

Do players vote for captains, or coaches decide? Jerry should be a captain without a doubt. 

 

 

Jerry is the de facto captain of the entire team.  Imo he kinda resides over these 8.....he's the first one they'll all go to with anything.  

 

He doesn't need the letter on his jersey to vindicate that and my guess is he'll tell you he doesn't need it.   

 

 

The leadership hierarchy in this organization and how everyone understands where they fit in, the chain of command, it's just remarkable.  

[JoPoy88]

53 minutes ago, Rico said:

I have no problem at all with Taiwan or anyone else on this team being named captain, especially if it was voted on by the players.

 

Now, Chris Kelsay being named captain 3x in the drought-era when all he knew was how to lose… that’s a different story. 

100% agreed. CK was one of the most overrated and unfairly rewarded players of that entire era. 

[billybrew1]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 
maybe.. don’t like historical comps but he is perfect in this defense. He’s a little weak vs run but in middle zone pass defense he takes away a ton of field with his size athleticism and range. 
 

a lot of folks don’t understand the scheme and think like ‘70s mlbs hes supposed to roam and take on the rb. That’s not this defense 

I think he should be taking tons of stuff away but really doesn't.  He plays his zones too soft. He lets big-time receivers exit his zone and he watches no one instead of staying on a high percentage target. I think he needs to be better for sure. Maybe a lot better. I'm sorry, I want to be a huge fan, he is just not there. Too often he covers no one in the zone. I think if he IS supposed to do that, it is poor defensive design. I think a defender should make every play count. They should either be pass rushing or covering someone. Not just taking plays away. A good OC merely avoids a strong spot if that's the way it is defended. Versus the chefs, it looked like we weren't covering Hill or Kelce way too often..... though I did see Tremaine let go of his cover as the player left his zone and the ball went there. It was very frustrating.... IDK, they killed us, imho. Three times in a row, we are doing things totally wrong vs. the chefs or they are just way better than us. Which is it?

The last time the chefs won both LOS.

We barely covered anyone.

JA17 showed up, but his receivers were all beat up. (The chefs also were guilty of holding)

So hopefully the next two times we play the chefs Josh's O around him is fully healthy. That will really help that aspect of the game.

Special Teams were fantastic but couldn't effect the game enough, so I think we gotta be happy with STs.

Its the defense that really needs to improve. It isn't as simple as we just need a better pass rush, we need way tighter coverages too. We need to Billieve we can really limit Hill and Kelce in the game. We need to force a couple punts, hold them to a few FGs, and take the ball away once in a while. We need to play totally different than we have been.

 

Full disclosure..... I have tried to rewatch that KC game closely a few times already but it is so sickening I just can't do it. I also don't have the all-22 so I'm limited in what I can see....

 

What I do know.  McD And Leslie are tight, Tremaine and Ed both have to have more impact this year if we are to overtake the chefs. Our pass rush must also be better but I think we have that one figured out, at least, somewhat. Maybe Dawson has to improve more too.... You could say the whole 2018 draft after JA17 and the whole 2019 drafts have to improve for us to win the SB this year. And yes, I do think some of it is on the coaches.....

The good news is it looks like we have bounced back with the 2020 and 2021 drafts..... It is too early sure, but I think Diggs was worth to secure JA's place as a franchise QB. I think AJ is going to be a good player, a tough player (we need more toughness) Moss was a good pick, I don't think Devin is an every down back, so Moss was needed we have two excellent blockers and that's what we need most from that position. Davis is already a Star and might be Beane's second best draft pick. From looks like a bust. Bass-o-magic is another star already! Hodgins is still with us and Jackson, according to coaches is fighting for #2 CB job. So a great draft so far, imho.

And I love the 2021 draft because we focused on the LOS and our guys look frigin' fantastic so far in preseason and training camp. They also drafted really big men which I love as well.

I think AJ really wins a lot of fans this year though.....I would love to see Groot and AJ starting in fact. That'd be quite an accomplishment for their early careers if indeed they beat out Jerry and Mario..... I say Efe gets the bench on the inactive list and Groot - Basham - Addison- AJ becomes our third and long front..... I really like Efe in for Addison here but I'm pretty sure one of the DEs has to sit.....possibly two..... No, I don't think any of the rookies should sit.....but maybe one does?

 

Go Bills!

[billybrew1]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

He was a ST captain for the Bills in ‘18. 

Yes, I meant Buffalo, elsewhere was I readi it not here....

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, billybrew1 said:

Yes, I meant Buffalo, elsewhere was I readi it not here....

Well I posted it on the 1st page of this thread, you sure?

[without a drought]

7 hours ago, Cash said:

That’s who goes out for coin tosses - opening and OT. I’m not aware of any other official stipulations around being a captain. 

Sounds important, good thing they have so many.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

8 hours ago, TheProcess said:

This is 3 for Josh and Tremaine. How long until they get the gold captain patch on their jersey? Is that 4 years of captaincy? 
 

Edit: For anyone interested like I was, appears you have to be captain 4 years (which fills in the 4 stars on the captain patch) before you get the gold “C” and 4 stars patch in your 5th year of captaincy. So, looks like, Josh and Tremaine need this year (done), next year, and then voted captain the following year to get the gold patch.

 

Once in awhile I actually learn something on this board! Very interesting. 

[CEN-CAL17]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Not really a surprise, he anchors the ST unit, so pretty much a no brainer

Funny thing is he’s actually one of the three offensive captains….

 

It was reported somewhere 3 offensive 3 defensive and 2 STs… but I think they may have 3 STs. Cause it’s McDs favorite?

Edited September 8, 2021 by CEN-CAL17

[WhoTom]

14 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Jerry is the de facto captain of the entire team.  Imo he kinda resides over these 8.....he's the first one they'll all go to with anything.  

 

He doesn't need the letter on his jersey to vindicate that and my guess is he'll tell you he doesn't need it.   

 

Jerry is a respected elder and a defensive leader, no doubt, but Josh is the true leader of the team. I do agree, though, that Jerry doesn't need a "C" on his jersey to be a leader. I remember speaking to the president of the college where I taught. He said something that never occurred to me but made a lot of sense: "You don't need an official title to be a leader."