Tre White wasn’t the problem

[Zerovoltz]

I am starting this thread because I keep reading over and over again here, that Tre White didn’t show up, is overpaid etc.

 

This simply isn’t true.  I went back after the game to see what White was being asked to do.  He was actually asked to play man coverage on Hill or Kielce several times, and when he was manned up on Hill, Hill only had a few catches for a few yards.  Same with Kielce.

 

The problem was NOT Tre, but it’s that you only have one of him. 
 

He is a great player and worth every penny.

[Southern Bills Fan]

He may not have been the problem but he definitely wasn't the solution either.

[Dr.Sack]

The only way to stop KC is to have a great scheme and ability to execute it in 3 phases of the game. 
 

Simply put we are not at their level.

As far as the defense goes I felt we needed to generate pressure more consistently with our front 4. Perhaps AJ makes a huge leap in year 2. But the fact remains, we do not have an elite pass rusher. 

 

[Jobot]

Coaching staff laid the biggest egg with the game plan, no doubt.

 

Romo mentioned the BB blue print when playing against KC that I have no clue why Buffalo didn't do something similar. (Single high safety, double Hill, chip Kelce at the line... force other guys to beat you.)

 

There's not a single human on the planet that can cover Hill 1 on 1 in man starting at the line of scrimmage. The coaching staff is to blame for White looking bad at times.

[LabattBlue]

18 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I am starting this thread because I keep reading over and over again here, that Tre White didn’t show up, is overpaid etc.

 

This simply isn’t true.  I went back after the game to see what White was being asked to do.  He was actually asked to play man coverage on Hill or Kielce several times, and when he was manned up on Hill, Hill only had a few catches for a few yards.  Same with Kielce.

 

The problem was NOT Tre, but it’s that you only have one of him. 
 

He is a great player and worth every penny.

Thanks.  Now go away.  No one needs a Chiefs fan telling us why the Bills lost.  I hope Brady and the Bucs throttle Thug Hill and the rest of the Chiefs.

Edited January 25, 2021 by BTB

[Hebert19]

Some of the issue was gameplan.  We had him pretending to be in Zone then coming up to pick up receiver in man.  And unfortunately KC saw it coming every time...so he was set up to fail. 

[freddyjj]

9 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I am starting this thread because I keep reading over and over again here, that Tre White didn’t show up, is overpaid etc.

 

This simply isn’t true.  I went back after the game to see what White was being asked to do.  He was actually asked to play man coverage on Hill or Kielce several times, and when he was manned up on Hill, Hill only had a few catches for a few yards.  Same with Kielce.

 

The problem was NOT Tre, but it’s that you only have one of him. 
 

He is a great player and worth every penny.

Thanks ZeroVoltz  - please take down Tampa and TB.

 

Hill's 71 yd catch and run was when he was in a matchup on slot man #24 Taron Johnson.  And multiple Bills missed tackles aided the scamper.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

12 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I am starting this thread because I keep reading over and over again here, that Tre White didn’t show up, is overpaid etc.

 

This simply isn’t true.  I went back after the game to see what White was being asked to do.  He was actually asked to play man coverage on Hill or Kielce several times, and when he was manned up on Hill, Hill only had a few catches for a few yards.  Same with Kielce.

 

The problem was NOT Tre, but it’s that you only have one of him. 
 

He is a great player and worth every penny.

 

Tales 2 Tre Whites to cover Hill...

[Matt_In_NH]

The Bills had a bad gameplan more than lack of execution.   The plan to play zone and let Kelce be open continuously did not work out well.  The Cheifs played man, took advantage of the fact the NFL throws less penalties in the playoffs by being agressive with our WR's.  We did not choose to take advantage of that as much.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

20 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I am starting this thread because I keep reading over and over again here, that Tre White didn’t show up, is overpaid etc.

 

This simply isn’t true.  I went back after the game to see what White was being asked to do.  He was actually asked to play man coverage on Hill or Kielce several times, and when he was manned up on Hill, Hill only had a few catches for a few yards.  Same with Kielce.

 

The problem was NOT Tre, but it’s that you only have one of him. 
 

He is a great player and worth every penny.

Then honestly I don't know why he wasn't matched up against Hill basically all night--follow the Hoodie's mantra of take at least the one thing away from your opponent that they do best, and hope that the rest isn't enough anymore to beat you. Of course, with the # of weapons the Chiefs have, that's a tall order regardless, I do get that. But he never should've been allowed to set a new personal playoff record best in yards, period.  

[Matt_In_NH]

2 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Thanks ZeroVoltz  - please take down Tampa and TB.

 

Hill's 71 yd catch and run was when he was in a matchup on slot man #24 Taron Johnson.  And multiple Bills missed tackles aided the scamper.  

 

 

I would say missed opportunites to make a tackle vs actual missed tackles.....they seemed to just prefer to have a foot race with him

[Brennan Huff]

We had no pass rush. None at all. When you play a soft zone you absolutely need a pass rush. If you don’t get to the QB there will always be someone open eventually 

[TFBillsfan]

3 minutes ago, mattynh said:

The Bills had a bad gameplan more than lack of execution.   The plan to play zone and let Kelce be open continuously did not work out well.  The Cheifs played man, took advantage of the fact the NFL throws less penalties in the playoffs by being agressive with our WR's.  We did not choose to take advantage of that as much.

Agree. To let the KC receivers run free was idiotic. Needed a big game from Hughes to win his matchup and generate pressure which didn’t happen. Getting Star back and adding in a proven pass rusher are a must.

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, Brennan Huff said:

We had no pass rush. None at all. When you play a soft zone you absolutely need a pass rush. If you don’t get to the QB there will always be someone open eventually 

Exactly this.   Tre had a bad game.  The bigger issue was letting the best Quarterback in the league sit in the pocket untouched.

[RyanC883]

12 minutes ago, mattynh said:

The Bills had a bad gameplan more than lack of execution.   The plan to play zone and let Kelce be open continuously did not work out well.  The Cheifs played man, took advantage of the fact the NFL throws less penalties in the playoffs by being agressive with our WR's.  We did not choose to take advantage of that as much.

 

agreed.  the coaching and game plans were terrible.  the OL added to it with its terrible execution.  

[LabattBlue]

1 minute ago, TFBillsfan said:

Agree. To let the KC receivers run free was idiotic. Needed a big game from Hughes to win his matchup and generate pressure which didn’t happen. Getting Star back and adding in a proven pass rusher are a must.

What impact would Star have had against KC?  Little to none as he isn't a pass rusher, and would have been on the sidelines more often than not.

[Stokes84]

We don’t have defenders that can matchup with their playmakers.  That includes Tre.  He’s not the problem, obviously, but you have to be honest about what we have.  

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

agreed.  the coaching and game plans were terrible.  the OL added to it with its terrible execution.  

Don't forget the DL... they were awful as well 

[Niagara Dude]

16 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

The only way to stop KC is to have a great scheme and ability to execute it in 3 phases of the game. 
 

Simply put we are not at their level.

As far as the defense goes I felt we needed to generate pressure more consistently with our front 4. Perhaps AJ makes a huge leap in year 2. But the fact remains, we do not have an elite pass rusher. 

 

AJ Klein is role player who they overpaid at 6 million,  Beane needs to spend his money more wisely if we expect to beat KC

[Royale with Cheese]

Hill is impossible to cover one on one in man.  He's just too quick.  

 

You have to beat them by getting to Mahomes.  

 

We didn't have the man power up front.

 

But lets not kid ourselves, no one has really figured out how to stop the Chiefs offense since 2018.  Some of us are acting like the Bills failed, we didn't, the Chiefs are better....the Chiefs didn't fail.

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

AJ Klein is role player who they overpaid at 6 million,  Beane needs to spend his money more wisely if we expect to beat KC

 

Norman, Klein, Butler, Addison all overpaid. We need to stop signing people who were great for Carolina in 2015. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said:

We had no pass rush. None at all. When you play a soft zone you absolutely need a pass rush. If you don’t get to the QB there will always be someone open eventually 

 

This

[Success]

As good as our gameplan was against the Ravens, that's how bad our gameplan was last night.

 

One pundit said last week that Reid coached the 1st game like he was aware that they'd face us down the line - and saved a lot of wrinkles.

 

It felt like that.  They were just better, all the way down the line - from the coaching, to QB, to defense, et al.  It doesn't mean we're all of a sudden bad.  Learning experience, and that's it.

 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Then honestly I don't know why he wasn't matched up against Hill basically all night--follow the Hoodie's mantra of take at least the one thing away from your opponent that they do best, and hope that the rest isn't enough anymore to beat you. Of course, with the # of weapons the Chiefs have, that's a tall order regardless, I do get that. But he never should've been allowed to set a new personal playoff record best in yards, period.  

 

The way the Hoodie played Hill was to double him and match is best corner (Gilmore) up on their #2 receiver. 

[Livinginthepast]

I'm convinced that Trey hid an injury all year. He never looked like the Trey from previous years. He's a great player that looked mediocre all year with some flashes of brilliance. Also the changes of defensive personnel and ill thought out schemes combined with a pathetic pass rush when it mattered put Trey in bad situations over and over. 

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, mattynh said:

The Bills had a bad gameplan more than lack of execution.   The plan to play zone and let Kelce be open continuously did not work out well.  The Cheifs played man, took advantage of the fact the NFL throws less penalties in the playoffs by being agressive with our WR's.  We did not choose to take advantage of that as much.

 

You cannot play man against KC. We tried mixing some man in second half and they were some of their bigger gainers. We have to play zone but we have to have better athletes to get it done. And in particular we have to have edge pressure. On Kelce we need to think about our plan on tight ends generally I think. Has hurt us all year. 

[clearwater cadet]

Bills defense is just not physical enough, they havent been all year.  Poyer had a nice hit, but they should have set the tone early and gonna after Mahomes.  He would have likely burned them a few times, but I think he needed to be rattled.  He knew he needed to score 30+ to win, if you give up a few big one so be it.

[Matt_In_NH]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You cannot play man against KC. We tried mixing some man in second half and they were some of their bigger gainers. We have to play zone but we have to have better athletes to get it done. And in particular we have to have edge pressure. On Kelce we need to think about our plan on tight ends generally I think. Has hurt us all year. 

I don't remember saying just play man.  I am not an NFL coach, but I am certain the game plan yesterday was the correct plan with the Bills talent.   Pressure always helps the DB's look better and any the Bills got Mahomes was easily able to side step and minimize the impact. I don't know what the answer is but I believe the Bills defense can play better against that team with the right plan.

[bills6969]

Lol,  anyone who thought our secondary was the issue doesn’t know football.  We have one of the best secondary in the league.  The issue is we have one of the worst pass rushes in the league and to stop Mahomes you need to rough him up.  He had all day to throw.  Give a superstar QB time to throw and he will find the open man.  We know this all too well as Brady picked us apart for years because we could not get to him.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

41 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

I am starting this thread because I keep reading over and over again here, that Tre White didn’t show up, is overpaid etc.

 

This simply isn’t true.  I went back after the game to see what White was being asked to do.  He was actually asked to play man coverage on Hill or Kielce several times, and when he was manned up on Hill, Hill only had a few catches for a few yards.  Same with Kielce.

 

The problem was NOT Tre, but it’s that you only have one of him. 
 

He is a great player and worth every penny.

 

First off Zerovoltz, congratulations to the Chiefs.  They outplayed us on Offense and on Defense.

 

IMO the problem starts with the lines.  A zone defense requires that the DL achieve significant pressure.  We didn't.  The secondary looked similar the first few weeks of the season when we couldn't get pressure on DL.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Hill is impossible to cover one on one in man.  He's just too quick.  

 

You have to beat them by getting to Mahomes.  

 

We didn't have the man power up front.

 

But lets not kid ourselves, no one has really figured out how to stop the Chiefs offense since 2018.  Some of us are acting like the Bills failed, we didn't, the Chiefs are better....the Chiefs didn't fail.

 

Except when people have figured it out....

 

The Chiefs do have 4 losses in 2019 and were held to <24 points 6 times.  1 loss this year (not counting the Chargers "rest 'em") and were held to <24 points 4 times (not counting Chargers) and 26 points 2x (including by us).

 

We just didn't get it done yesterday.

 

I think the Bills did fail, but whether we could have succeeded with the hosses we were able to field last night, I don't know.

[Plano]

Hard to cover the Wife Beatah, I mean Cheetah--Tyreek Hill. 

 

While a complete waste of life and POS as a human being, the guy is an incredible football player.

 

 

[T master]

43 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

He may not have been the problem but he definitely wasn't the solution either.

 

Tell me if i'm wrong but i don't think they were nearly aggressive enough on defense they basically gave them the underneath routes all game as to not get beat deep and it looked as if no one was jamming them at the line to disrupt the timing they just gave them a free release .

 

I thought Tarron Johnson played a decent game but i saw Edmunds seem to give up on a couple plays or get played by Mahomes eyes not a good look for a 1st round pick !

 

Millano was him self but he's only 1 guy there was no pressure at all from the front 4 which needs to be addressed i would have loved to see Jordon Phillips in this game or even Star might have helped .

 

Although i saw Oliver on a couple plays he's good but i think to small for the O linemen in todays game . He's the same size as John Randle but who else has his kind of motor or skills !

 

I would love to see them put Ed on the edge every once and again for a different look i think he would be great off the edge because of his first step if it doesn't work okay but nothing ventured nothing gained ! 

 

They moved Peters to LT and look what happened we might have another Jerry hughes and not know it !  

[Buffalo Junction]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think the Bills did fail, but whether we could have succeeded with the hosses we were able to field last night, I don't know.

I don’t think there’s enough talent on the roster at the correct places to beat the chiefs. This defense desperately needs an elite pass rusher and someone in the secondary with serious speed to compete in games like this. We don’t have anyone on the DL that automatically commands double teams on every play. Plus this defense can’t reliably use man coverage without having one player that can cover speed deep. 

[Teddy KGB]

All the early thuggery by the chiefs was a solid touch. 

 

McD stays getting owned by Reid.   Started with the Mahomes gift.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by Teddy KGB

[The Frankish Reich]

15 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

All the early thuggery by the chiefs was a solid touch. 

 

McD stays getting owned by Reid.   Started with the Mahomes gift.  

Ouch. You are not allowed to say that here!

[Teddy KGB]

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Ouch. You are not allowed to say that here!

Well that trade, Cody Ford, and Motor/Moss are mega fails.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Ouch. You are not allowed to say that here!

 

Funny, I probably read more posts than many people, and I can tell you it gets said quite often by any number of people.

The problem is when it becomes a loud and persistantly beaten drum by a single guy but that's true of about any topic

[Nextmanup]

Folks here will continue to point the finger at EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in last night's game, EXCEPT FOR JOSH ALLEN and the passing game! 

 

We didn't have one against an elite team.  You knew they would get their 30+ points and we knew we would have to keep up. We couldn't, and we lost.

 

I mentioned all this several days before the game, as did many others. 

Not rocket science.

 

As to how that has much to do with our elite shut-down CB, I don't know! 

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

Just now, Teddy KGB said:

Well that trade, Cody Ford, and Motor/Moss are mega fails.  

That trade was, in retrospect, awful. A lot of people here don't like to admit it. So you'll get the comments about how it was justifiable at the time (probably true), or that it doesn't make sense to keep flogging that dead horse (definitely true). I fall on the side of this: I won't mention it unless/until someone tries to tell me we actually lucked out by getting Allen instead of Mahomes. That is ... not a defensible position, regardless of how good Allen is looking now. Mahomes has probably had the best first 3 years as a starter in NFL history. Period.

As for Ford: yeah, probably time to move on.

As for Motor/Moss: neither was a high rounder. Both are hitting their high-end projections as useful RBs who shouldn't be considered as special talents. That's not a fail. As for why we drafted kind of the same guy two years in a row? Well, you'd have a point there.