Gugny Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 I think this is more of a discussion comparing Flores to McDermott than it is comparing Allen to Tua. Tua was a bad pick. Having Fitz start the season, to me, was a smart move. Pulling him when they did was nothing short of stupid; especially when it quickly became abundantly clear that Tua wasn't anywhere close to being ready. That move, in addition to players anonymously speaking to the media about it (and criticizing it), tells me more about Flores' grasp on this team (lack there of) than anything else. McDermott and Beane screwed the pooch re: handling the QB position in Josh's rookie year. Beane quickly owned the mistake, put it behind him and clearly learned from it. I don't see the Dolphins doing that. Good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, benderbender said: Hate to say it, but the Dolphins have handled the Tua situation perfectly: They didn't start Tua in the majority of games so they can claim plausible deniability with his projected ceiling They obviously came to the conclusion about how good he was when they listed him as "injured" instead of starting Fitz due to performance Fitz was in on the scam because he never bitched and moaned on social media before much less cried in interviews The final result is Miami can now trade Tua for a more valuable commodity with minimal compensation because they can be "talked into" moving off of Tua. It was their plan all along. Tip of the cap. You are giving them way too much credit. Maybe you were being sarcastic, but this is implausible. Maybe it works out that way but only if they are lucky. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, teef said: very true. it was a "rookie" mistake with that comment. This comment didn’t bother me as much as some when you consider that many consider Tua as a humble, hardworking player. If it was someone prone to bragging or arrogance it’s a different story. It always seemed like a poor choice of words 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Who knows how this will all work out we can only hope the answer is "Badly". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Gugny said: I think this is more of a discussion comparing Flores to McDermott than it is comparing Allen to Tua. Tua was a bad pick. Having Fitz start the season, to me, was a smart move. Pulling him when they did was nothing short of stupid; especially when it quickly became abundantly clear that Tua wasn't anywhere close to being ready. That move, in addition to players anonymously speaking to the media about it (and criticizing it), tells me more about Flores' grasp on this team (lack there of) than anything else. McDermott and Beane screwed the pooch re: handling the QB position in Josh's rookie year. Beane quickly owned the mistake, put it behind him and clearly learned from it. I don't see the Dolphins doing that. Good. The ironic thing is, they actually have a chance to draft another top QB against this year. It would be a bold move that they probably won’t make 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, JohnNord said: The ironic thing is, they actually have a chance to draft another top QB against this year. It would be a bold move that they probably won’t make Based on Grier’s comments, they’re definitely not drafting another QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaninSarasota Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? not exactly an apples to apples comparison - for several reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? Fans and media, sure -- we saw that play out on this board. Players? I doubt it. Josh had a ton of "splash" plays in his rookie year and you could see the potential as well as the hard work -- it was obvious even then his teammates loved and respected him. Where were Tua's "wow" moments this season? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 It should be illegal to post any story featuring “anonymous sources” Not just sports. In all aspects of reporting there needs to be accountability. Doesn’t matter your religion, race, political beliefs, virtually all news in at least the United States needs a revamp and some accountability measures put in. Did dolphin players actually say that? Or is the reporter feeling that and needed clicks? This stuff shouldn’t be allowed. People have something to say you need to put your name to it. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, JohnNord said: Not a comparable situation. Tua, along with Joe Burrow, was considered to ready to start - perhaps the most pro ready. Justin Herbert was considered more of a project QB that would need time to grow. Allen was thought of to be a low-floor/high ceiling type of project QB. Tua was never considered a QB project as was thought of to have the highest ceiling of any QB but maybe the lowest floor. Most rookie QB’s have up and down years, but the good one show some flashes of greatness from time to time (Herbert, Burrow, Baker, Lamar, Josh, Murray). We’ve seen a few solid games from Tua but no where near on the level of the other top QB’s over the past two year. Miami won on their defense and special teams - and not with QB play. I don’t buy the narrative that Chan didn’t trust him. I just think he’s pretty limited with what he can do right now and he called plays accordingly. I do think Tua can get better but IMO I see him as more of game manager than a franchise QB. You can win with a game manager, but as we know, there is a ceiling with how high you can go. Allen was thrust into the role based on poor performance of the QBs in front of him on the depth chart. While his numbers weren't great - he flashed for sure. I think you can find game managers without using a top pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, eball said: Fans and media, sure -- we saw that play out on this board. Players? I doubt it. Josh had a ton of "splash" plays in his rookie year and you could see the potential as well as the hard work -- it was obvious even then his teammates loved and respected him. Where were Tua's "wow" moments this season? Everyone wants the guy who can beat 2 rushers, roll to the sideline, and hit a guy 35 yards downfield at the sideline. Tua isn't that guy so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpsredemption Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Isn’t anyone just glad this is not us anymore? 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 55 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: I'm not surprised by this at all. Guy was trikes me as smart, which is valuable, and accurate, also valuable. Beyond that, I couldn't get too excited about him. Not at all a good sign that guys on the team don't see enough promise to keep their mouths shut. You should make a thread about how Tua is done. LOL 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: He's accurate, has a quick release and is pretty poised even when things are going badly.... maybe less so in the Bills game but in other games he hasn't got rattled. And I agree it is crazy to want to close the book on him. But the concern about a lack of elite traits is absolutely justified based on what we have seen at this stage. The other factor in this Dolphins leak is that Fitz is always a beloved teammate. It was the reason Buddy Nix felt the Bills couldn't keep him here behind a rookie in 2013 because the players in the locker room wouldn't throw their weight behind the kid (even if he had been good) while Fitz was around. Same happened in Tampa where Fitz split the locker room, not intentionally, just by being a great guy who teammates naturally gravitate towards. If, as they claim, the Dolphins are truly all in on Tua that doesn't just require a scheme tweak, and some more pieces around him that suit his style of play but it also requires them to let Fitz walk. Otherwise there will always be "Fitz guys" in that locker room. Hell the likes if Fred Jackson and Eric Wood are still Fitz guys now.... 8 years after they stopped playing with him. My bet is that Fitz ends up on the Patriots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? I feel a big difference between the two, Allen was made the starting QB his rookie year as he was their best option. Maybe not a very good option, but still their best. In Miami, they took a team with a winning record and a QB playing very well and from what you hear really liked by his teammates and benched him in favor of a rookie. Then even after two times Fitz having to come back into games to bail out the rookie, they went back to him the following week and not get any better play out of him either. Got to believe that would have upset many others on the team. Maybe the issue in Miami isn't so much being upset with Tua as much as being upset with managements decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 "I thought it would be harder" is my favorite karma quote of this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Rubber Mats Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: It's also surprising that a rookie QB says the NFL is "easier than expected" after one game where he wasn't that good and got carried by the rest of the team. That quote struck me when I read it. Same here. Tua needs more time but I hated that quote and the universe seemed to note it as well. It got a lot harder for him lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, mannc said: Based on Grier’s comments, they’re definitely not drafting another QB I don’t think they will but Arizona also publicly supported Josh Rosen when the rumor was they would take Murray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78thealltimegreat Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? Nope...players knew Josh was something special matter a fact that’s the reason Mitch Morse gave for signing with Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, JohnNord said: I don’t think they will but Arizona also publicly supported Josh Rosen when the rumor was they would take Murray. But I don’t think they ever announced that Rosen was their starting QB for the next season. That’s the whole reason for this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Tua’s biggest issue as I see it is that his hip having been “gruesomely” broken as was stated by a Doctor in an article I read recently, and that it is effecting his throwing motion, and will it ever get back to were he can rotate his lower body into his throwing motion as he did pre-injury. Not quoting, but paraphrasing the article. Additionally he is physically small, and his frame isn’t going to support much more muscle mass to get stronger, he currently appears to need to throw his entire body into throws of intermediate or longer distances, and even then, there is not much velocity/speed in the balls flight. I see him as an above average game manager at his peak. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 hopefully Miami will be the like the Jauron era Bills... Tough team, media darlings at times, go on a little streak here and there, but missing the QB to really compete. I don't think NE is done by any stretch. If they sign Fitz or someone like him and return half their defense that opted out they could be dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Just now, mannc said: But I don’t think they ever announced that Rosen was their starting QB for the next season. That’s the whole reason for this article. They kind of did in their end of season presser, but it was before they hired Kliff and before Murray declared. This is a different situation in that both GM and HC are returning and while they might not know which of the QBs is there at #3 they can probably have a reasonable sense of who it is between. I do think it is much more likely the Dolphins mean what they say with Tua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 If Tua is fully healed from his surgery he will not likely be a great NFL qb because he needs to load up to get it 40 yards. You don't have to be Josh but he is currently in the lower half of arm strength for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Claude Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 I am pretty sure this kind of thing would have came out much sooner if it the press had been allowed in the locker room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 They saw the writing on the wall after Josh blew up their season with a half-dozen first half lasers week 17. They know he is never going to throw like that. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: My bet is that Fitz ends up on the Patriots. Man, I hope not. Fitz as a Cheat? <shudder> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Stupid decision to start Tua too soon. You have to let the incumbent starter fail before making that call. Fitz was doing okay and then was being subbed in to save games. McDermott had Peterman and McCarron, lol. He let them fail miserably and then inserted Josh and there was no looking back from anybody. They didn't sub a vet QB in to save the game if Josh was doing bad. Just terrible management by Miami. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 I remember people on ESPN including Tua in their top-10 QBs after his first start, in which he completed 54.5% for 93 yards. LOL. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? I’m Sure they did. He had problems with touch and accuracy, and game speed. there is a school of though that the first irrespective of the reason it can’t be fixed. And the last one either happens or never does. turns out, that having little to no mechanics help or high level coaching made him as raw as they come but very coachable and correctable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? After Josh's first season, we could all see that Josh's passing abilities weren't what they needed to be, especially as far as consistency. And probably some of the players wondered if he'd get them to where they needed to be. But Josh had already shown, several times, the ability to take the team on his back and carry it. And it's also coming out - Beane interview - that a number of times Josh's first year the receivers were running the wrong routes or running the right routes incorrectly. The whole team has to have known the OL couldn't run block or pass protect in 2018. And in 2019, as Josh got better with better WR, they could still see that our small WR got taken out by bracketing or by physical DB play. You could see that Josh had "elite traits" - his ability to escape and create plays, his ability to gain yards on the ground, his arm strength I read that article as espressing, not just that Tua isn't good enough right now, many rookie QBs aren't --- but questioning whether he has any elite physical traits to build on as he improves. Chris Simms I believe expressed the same concerns. He said Tua's only path to success will be to become elite mentally, as Drew Brees has, because he lacks even one elite physical trait (or words to that effect) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Tua is 6-1 219, 4.9 40. Josh is 6-5 240 4.7 40. Bigger faster stronger.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Just now, 947 said: I remember people on ESPN including Tua in their top-10 QBs after his first start, in which he completed 54.5% for 93 yards. LOL. C’mon man, didn’t you see all those games he won at Alabama? 😅 1 minute ago, BearNorth said: Tua is 6-1 219, 4.9 40. Josh is 6-5 240 4.7 40. Bigger faster stronger.... No way is Tua 6’1” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearNorth Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, mannc said: C’mon man, didn’t you see all those games he won at Alabama? 😅 Basically every guy on an NFL roster is >= to any Alabama college player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BearNorth said: Tua is 6-1 219, 4.9 40. Josh is 6-5 240 4.7 40. Bigger faster stronger.... Height, weight and 40 time aren’t good predictors of success for a QB. Josh is clearly better but Tua is still a rookie. Edited January 13, 2021 by Bangarang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? I would imagine for sure but two huge differences. 1) Allen was always considered a "project", low completion percentage, Wyoming etc etc. Tua absent his injuries was supposed to be good to go. 2) Tua has, imo, a very low physical ceiling, the direct opposite of J A. You cant teach size. 5 minutes ago, BearNorth said: Tua is 6-1 219, 4.9 40. Josh is 6-5 240 4.7 40. Bigger faster stronger.... 6' 0", 217. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplebulldog Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Tua is also not a good Pool player my son fleeced him in T town a couple times last year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, BearNorth said: Basically every guy on an NFL roster is >= to any Alabama college player. 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: Man, I hope not. Fitz as a Cheat? <shudder> He might as well complete the AFC East trifecta or whatever the term is for all 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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