Some executives view Allen as preferable to Mahomes long term

[Rc2catch]

I hope Allen doesn’t end up in annoying State Farm commercials. 
Hope he gets better endorsement deals than Mahomes. Head and shoulders is kinda annoying 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I love Josh Allen.  I love Tre' day.  But sorry, this is not at this point sure. 

 

Mahomes has proven he is clutch and can win and make great throws under pressure and win big games in the playoffs and championship.  He has been a great player for 3 years now.

 

Allen has improved by leaps and bounds, but he does still need to show he can come up clutch, win big games, and be consistent year after year.

 

Just a bit premature.

Allen has been demonstrating a clutch gene since his rookie year. Your other two points are more than fair. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Allen is more stereotypical QB so a lot of executives will prefer him over mahomes just because what mahomes does has never been seen

 

He plays the game as if he is playing baseball or basketball

[Rico]

5 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I hope Allen doesn’t end up in annoying State Farm commercials. 
Hope he gets better endorsement deals than Mahomes. Head and shoulders is kinda annoying 

You know they are coming, and if he wins the SB, he will knock Ratface off the air.

[gordong]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Allen has been demonstrating a clutch gene since his rookie year. Your other two points are more than fair. 

Agreed nobody can say Allen hasn't been clutch since the first year. the only thing left for Allen to prove starts on Saturday. the last 5 weeks he is playing as good / better then anyone

[london_bills]

 

2 hours ago, Success said:

Serious question:  if you could...would you trade Allen for Mahomes?

 

I wouldn't.  Not like it isn't close - but I think Allen will have a better career, and be better overall.

 

I wouldn't trade Allen for Mahomes no. He's a better fit all in all. 

 

.. but I also don't think he's better or will be better than Mahomes. But I think Mahomes is so good that being behind him can still make an elite QB. 

 

If Allen is the 2nd, 3rd or 4th best QB in the league then I'm happy. I think that would be good enough. 

 

 

[BillsFan619]

3 hours ago, Beast said:

One thing is for sure....

 

Allen and White>>>>>Mahomes

But...but...we supposedly missed out on Mahomes!

[FireChans]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

I think Allen is able to put the team on his back a little more than Mahomes. Maybe that's because Mahomes has never really needed to do that because he has had a ton of talent around him. Allen came into the league with basically no talent around him and had to fight to win games.

 

That being said, Mahomes' ability to get out of tight spots and make ridiculous throws is pretty incredible.

Mahomes dragged his teams to victories last year in the playoffs.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Beast said:

One thing is for sure....

 

Allen and White>>>>>Mahomes

 

Allen, Edmunds, and White >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mahomes

[CincyBillsFan]

One thing is true, teams are going to be lining up to make a trade with the Bills and the Bills should oblige them.  Consider just how win/win our trading has been:

 

* First the famous Mahomes trade.  KC sure liked it and it got us Tre White and cleared the way for Josh Allen.

 

* Then the Diggs trade with the Vikings.  We got the NFL leader in receptions & yards and they got a stud rookie WR in Jefferson.

 

 

 

[MJS]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Mahomes dragged his teams to victories last year in the playoffs.

With the help of his all pro teammates and one of the greatest offensive coaches ever, but ya know...

[Penfield45]

Allen takes way more hits than Mahomes does 

 

He also takes far more risks with running. Wouldn’t really call him more durable. 

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, MJS said:

With the help of his all pro teammates and one of the greatest offensive coaches ever, but ya know...

Oh so they can’t have a bad half and Mahomes can’t lead a come back because the team is so good? 
 

Strange take. Allen can’t put the team on his back anymore because Diggs/Beasley/Brown and the OL are too good.

Edited January 8, 2021 by FireChans

[Jpsredemption]

If I’m being completely objective I still take Mahomes. He’s done it slightly longer and has one of the historically great seasons under his belt. Oh and a super bowl ring. 

[MJS]

37 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Oh so they can’t have a bad half and Mahomes can’t lead a come back because the team is so good? 
 

Strange take. Allen can’t put the team on his back anymore because Diggs/Beasley/Brown and the OL are too good.

Mahomes and Allen don't need to put their teams on their back. In fact, if anyone put the team on their back this year at times, it was Stefon Diggs.

 

But whatever. You are always arguing with people for no reason. I don't accept your opinion and you don't have to accept mine.

[london_bills]

50 minutes ago, MJS said:

Mahomes and Allen don't need to put their teams on their back. In fact, if anyone put the team on their back this year at times, it was Stefon Diggs.

 

But whatever. You are always arguing with people for no reason. I don't accept your opinion and you don't have to accept mine.

The Diggs trade has made a massive difference to the offense. Slam dunk home run trade

[stevewin]

Does this mean Chiefs fans are going to quit their team to become Bills fans now

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Mahomes and Allen don't need to put their teams on their back. In fact, if anyone put the team on their back this year at times, it was Stefon Diggs.

 

But whatever. You are always arguing with people for no reason. I don't accept your opinion and you don't have to accept mine.

"I think Allen is able to put the team on his back a little more than Mahomes."

 

"Mahomes and Allen don't need to put their teams on their back."

 

Hm.

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

They feel Allen is in the same class now, has more room to grow and is bigger and stronger which will allow him to take more hits and be less likely to get injured...

 

Stunning...could anyone have imagined this happening before the season started??

 

https://www.radio.com/wgr550/sports/bills/some-in-league-circles-would-take-allen-over-mahomes?dfpvars[app]=true&app=true

 

I'd love to check back in with the people who gave McDermott flack for trading away the Mahomes pick. Now it's Mahomes vs Allen AND Tre White. Who made out better?

[JohnNord]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I love Josh Allen.  I love Tre' day.  But sorry, this is not at this point sure. 

 

Mahomes has proven he is clutch and can win and make great throws under pressure and win big games in the playoffs and championship.  He has been a great player for 3 years now.

 

Allen has improved by leaps and bounds, but he does still need to show he can come up clutch, win big games, and be consistent year after year.

 

Just a bit premature.

It’s fair to want to see consistency and a larger sample size.  If Josh can do this, then the Bills are going to be a good team for years to come!

[MJS]

16 minutes ago, FireChans said:

"I think Allen is able to put the team on his back a little more than Mahomes."

 

"Mahomes and Allen don't need to put their teams on their back."

 

Hm.

This year. Allen proved he could do that in previous years. Mahomes has never needed to prove that.

 

[JaCrispy]

9 hours ago, Big Turk said:

They feel Allen is in the same class now, has more room to grow and is bigger and stronger which will allow him to take more hits and be less likely to get injured...

 

Stunning...could anyone have imagined this happening before the season started??

 

https://www.radio.com/wgr550/sports/bills/some-in-league-circles-would-take-allen-over-mahomes?dfpvars[app]=true&app=true

I’m still waiting to wake up, and have this all be the cruelest dream ever...🤣

[2ForMacAdoo]

8 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just want to see a few more playoff games with both.  Mahomes has a SB, 5 playoff starts, 4-1 in the playoff games (close enough to 2 SBs possibly and maybe 6-0 if not for a phantom off sides penalty), 13 tds an 2 ints, and he is likely to add to that this year.  Allen so far is 0-1 with no passing TDS.   Once again, maybe the regular season shows Allen has caught up to Mahomes...but I have trouble declaring it myself until I see some of it in the playoffs.

If Josh takes us all the way to the promised land this year and wins the big one, then his playoff record will improve to 4-1. Granted, that is a big IF. One game at a time. Let's get that first JA playoff victory Saturday.

[Strethor]

The answer is Mahomes untill proven otherwise. There are some flaws to what Mahomes does, no doubt - but untill allen gets results theres really no comparisson 

[Big Turk]

9 minutes ago, Strethor said:

The answer is Mahomes untill proven otherwise. There are some flaws to what Mahomes does, no doubt - but untill allen gets results theres really no comparisson 

 

Allen's cadence is WAAAAAYYYY better than Mahomes'.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Big Turk

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, skibum said:

It's Mahomes' improvisation and quick thinking ability that set him apart in my opinion. It is getting harder to say he has better accuracy than JA, but at the moment I would give him a slight edge there because he has been doing it longer. 

 

 

Anyone who says Allen can make all the throws that Mahomes can really hasn't watched much of Mahomes.   

 

He can make a wider variety of throws and from more platforms than anyone who has ever played the game.............which is why he has one ring and really should have 2.

 

Allen is a great arm talent too but his effectiveness is more the product of hard work and mechanical improvements........which is also a great plus.......but it's a difference.

 

I love the fact that Allen has the chip on his shoulder and has faced adversity that Mahomes has not.

 

Mahomes was a top prospect in 2 sports and the son of a long time MLB pitcher and he was basically handed the keys to an offense at a name college and was allowed to do his thing his way..........he's had very little adversity compared to Allen.......honestly in part because he was GREAT so quickly.

 

But that edge that Allen has is something that so many QB's have turned into motivation to be the best.    Case in point........if motivation/dedication was equal would Tom Brady or Drew Brees be better than a beast like Ben Roethlisberger?    I don't think so.    It matters.

[george c]

Win a Super Bowl, then have this discussion.

[Charles Romes]

Mahomes was pretty average or even bad through 3 quarters of the Super Bowl last year but won the game with a few somewhat broken play downfield chucks in the fourth.  Allen is about the only other QB that can make those same deep throws on broken plays and the Bills O has been copied from Chiefs so mostly smaller receivers break wide open late. 

[Inigo Montoya]

The measure of success in this League, ultimately, is winning playoff games and Super Bowls.  I love Josh Allen.  I think he has a higher ceiling than Mahomes.  I think he has the potential to win multiple Super Bowls.  Until Josh wins a Super Bowl and shows he can still excel when all the chips are in the middle of the table, Mahomes is still the better QB.  If Josh can grab a Lombardi this year or next then I think it's fair to look at this argument again. 

 

Josh hasn't shown he can succeed at the highest levels of competition yet.  Here's to hoping Josh checks off that box emphatically this post season starting tomorrow.

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, Strethor said:

The answer is Mahomes untill proven otherwise. There are some flaws to what Mahomes does, no doubt - but untill allen gets results theres really no comparisson 

 

 

Yeah our fanbase is quite bi-polar and one minute their BBFS makes them superstitious and afraid to hope for greatness..........and the next they are trying to take credit for it before it's achieved.    It was the same in the early 90's.   The question of the week leading up to SB XXV wasn't if they were going to win..........it was how many SB's in a row were they going to win.

 

I'm anticipating Allen being great but Mahomes is a potential GOAT with a 50 TD pass season and a ring and he is so dominant he cruise controlled his team to the best record in the NFL this season.    Allen will have to win a SB before it's really a reasonable conversation.

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Mahomes vs. Allen growth throughout their career*

 

Mahomes:

2018 Games 2-9     115.3 rating

2018 Games 10-17  112.4 rating

2019 Games 18-24  113.1 rating

2019 Games 25-31  97.6 rating

2020 Games 32-39 115.0 rating

2020 Games 40-46 101.9 rating

 

Allen:

2018 Games 1-6      61.8 rating

2018 Games 7-12    72.6 rating

2019 Games 13-20  82.9 rating

2019 Games 21-27  88.8 rating

2020 Games 29-36 102.4 rating

2020 Games 40-46 111.6 rating

2021 ???

 

*excluded Mahomes first career game since it was only one start at the end of the 2017 season

 *excluded the final game of the season for Allen in 2019 because he only played one series

 

Cowherd touched on this topic this morning on his show. Mahomes has consistently been great from the start. He sat and learned behind a good veteran QB his first year.  His first year starting Mahomes was throwing to Kelce and Tyreek Hill and had a proven offensive genius designing and calling plays. Hill and Kelce were already proven all-pro caliber players before Mahomes became the starter.

 

Allen was forced into starting and did not have a proven veteran QB to learn behind. His mentor was Nathan Peterman for the first half of the season for crying out loud. Allen was throwing to receivers who are either not currently in the NFL or not starting for any teams since the 2018 season. Allen has a good coaching staff around him now but Allen and the staff had to build their offensive identity over the last three years.

 

Allen hasn't yet had the same peaks in passer rating that Mahomes has achieved several times through his career already but if we look at Allen's trend, it's not hard to imagine that at some point next year, either the first half of the season, second half of the season or even both, Allen will probably top his career high 111.6 passer rating.

 

[BillsToast]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Anyone who says Allen can make all the throws that Mahomes can really hasn't watched much of Mahomes.   

 

He can make a wider variety of throws and from more platforms than anyone who has ever played the game.............which is why he has one ring and really should have 2.

 

Allen is a great arm talent too but his effectiveness is more the product of hard work and mechanical improvements........which is also a great plus.......but it's a difference.

 

Maybe not literally all the throws, but it works both ways. I think there are tons of throws Mahomes can't make that Allen hits. 

 

The question is moving forward who has the higher upside? It sounds insane but Allen has a higher upside:

-Throwing on the run

-Bigger arm

-Keeps improving

-Has more to learn in the mental side than Mahomes

-Still started slow in some games

 

I mean he's upside city.

[PrimeTime101]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:53 PM, Process said:

You can't say for sure when Allen hasn't even won a playoff game...

you think he wont win playoff games?

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

12 minutes ago, BillsToast said:

 

I mean he's upside city.

 

This. And this is why some executives would take Allen over Mahomes. Mahomes is great without question. He's been doing it for three straight years now. But it also looks like he has maxed out his potential. That's okay because his current plateau is high. But no question Allen's ceiling has not yet been identified. 

 

I look back at the end of the season still for Allen too. Final three games Allen put up 11 TD's to 1 turn over in 2.5 games. And if we dive deeper, Allen threw 5 pass attempts combined in the 4th quarters of the Denver and New England blowouts. He went 4/5 for a TD. In other words, you can make a strong argument that Allen played a tick over 8 quarters of the final 12 quarters of the 2020 season and still put up 11 TD's. Dive deeper and Allen had one TD called back on penalties and one dropped in the end zone not once but twice on the same series? It could have been 13 TDs in just a tick over 8 quarters. It's not hyperbole to say Allen could have finished the season with 16 TD's in his final three games. 

 

I'm nervous about every Bills playoff game but in the back of my mind I am aware of the possibility that Allen and the Bills can have a postseason run that the league has never seen before. One for the record books and that is based on the insane amount of TD's they put up in the last three regular season games. Games that Allen basically only played or had his foot on the petal for about 40 minutes of a 60 minute game on average. 

[BADOLBILZ]

33 minutes ago, BillsToast said:

 

Maybe not literally all the throws, but it works both ways. I think there are tons of throws Mahomes can't make that Allen hits. 

 

The question is moving forward who has the higher upside? It sounds insane but Allen has a higher upside:

-Throwing on the run

-Bigger arm

-Keeps improving

-Has more to learn in the mental side than Mahomes

-Still started slow in some games

 

I mean he's upside city.

 

 

It doesn't work both ways with regard to the throws............JA has a cannon but I've never seen Josh make one that Mahomes hasn't already.

 

They are different athletes.......Mahomes is like a great SS and Allen is like a great third baseman.........the "range" of platforms Mahomes can put himself in to make a throw are larger........and it's mainly because he has natural accuracy and doesn't need the feet to follow.     Allen has had to work much harder at becoming accurate.   

 

Time will tell which is the better player but there isn't a throw Mahomes can't make that any QB ever has.......including of course Allen.  

 

 

 

[Boxcar]

On 1/7/2021 at 1:59 PM, warrior9 said:

 Similar to Manning / Brady.

Hopefully Allen is the Brady in this scenario

On 1/7/2021 at 1:59 PM, warrior9 said:

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Boxcar

[billsfan1959]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It doesn't work both ways with regard to the throws............JA has a cannon but I've never seen Josh make one that Mahomes hasn't already.

 

They are different athletes.......Mahomes is like a great SS and Allen is like a great third baseman.........the "range" of platforms Mahomes can put himself in to make a throw are larger........and it's mainly because he has natural accuracy and doesn't need the feet to follow.     Allen has had to work much harder at becoming accurate.   

 

Time will tell which is the better player but there isn't a throw Mahomes can't make that any QB ever has.......including of course Allen.  

 

And, not to mention Mahomes developed the first vaccine for Covid, is close to ending world hunger, and, I'm sure, will eventually be revealed as the next Dalai Lama...

[Buffalo03]

When you watch the two play, they are actually kind of identical. I think it was Matt Hasselbeck that said "if you put each one in the other's uniform you really can't tell a difference". They both do things no other QB in this league can do