What is the second-most important position on a football team?

[MJS]

11 minutes ago, In Summary said:

The inference being that if your starter is out and you have to play the backup QB, your season rests on the backup's ability.  Going to your #2 LT, CB, RB etc would have less team impact.  Think Allen to Barlkey vs Diggs to Brown.  You can still have a good season with Brown.

I understand that, but I think that is poor reasoning. There aren't even enough starting QB's to go around. Matt Barkley has done virtually nothing to contribute to the Bills season as far as moving the needle on wins and losses.

[mannc]

On 1/7/2021 at 12:18 PM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I laughed when I saw this, then as I read further I realized you mean it? Good lord, they're not in the top ten. Look at the success percentages of the best in the league and compare it to average guys and it's generally a ten to twenty percent difference, and when an average kicker attempts maybe 30 kicks a year, and understanding that an awful lot of the percentage comes down to how many shorter or longer kicks the guy attempted ... Not even close.

 

The highest-paid kicker gets $5M a year, the tenth best gets $3.86M a year. That's how valuable teams feel the difference is. 16th is $2.7M. Only 22 of them make more than a million a year. If they were that valuable, someone, either a smart GM or a dumb one, would offer Justin Tucker $10M a year. They don't. Simply because spending that much on a kicker doesn't give you an equivalent competitive advantage.

 

 

 

 

How about a better pass rusher gets the QB to throw an incompletion on any play of that drive and completely eliminates the kicker even having a chance. These guys make a difference, but only on a very few plays and the percentage success differences are just not very large.

 

The three points (or the miss) isn't a result of the kicker. It's the result of the work of every player on every play on the drive. The kicker has a part, but a lot larger part is whether the drive ends on, say the opposition 26 or their 42 or your own 35.

Revisiting this post 36 hours after the Bills won their first playoff game in 25 years, largely because our kicker was better than the Colts’ kicker.  

Edited January 11, 2021 by mannc

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, mannc said:

Revisiting this post 36 hours after the Bills won their first playoff game in 25 years, largely because our kicker was better than the Colts’ kicker.  

 

 

Puh ... ... ... leeze!  Revisit away, but claiming we won that game because of the kickers is missing the point by a million miles.

 

The fact is that it was close because we couldn't pressure the quarterback, our many early three-and-outs, and many other problems. But if you were going to (absolutely wrongly) talk about kicks as more than one of many factors, you 'd have to point out that the most important field goal of the day was the one the Bills defense didn't allow the Colts to get in range for at the end. 2:30 to go when the Colts get the ball ... and they can't get to field goal range. That was the key field goal of the day, the one we prevented them from getting into range for.

 

Again, every field goal is the result of the field position resulting from that particular drive. If the defense is a bit better it's a punt. If the offense is a bit better it's a much much easier field goal or a touchdown. Even on drives with field goals, that score isn't purely a result of the kicker ... nowhere even close.

 

 

 

 

And it's not difficult to figure out who's valued. This is a capitalist league in a capitalist society. The position that gives you the largest competitive advantage is quarterback. Who'd have guessed that they would also be the highest paid, except anyone who spent a billionth of a second thinking about it. You can tell who's important by how well they're paid. You can tell who's not by how little they're paid. (Not to mention where they are drafted ... or for kickers, generally undrafted).

 

The five highest paid positions are these:

 

QBs

pass-rushing guys who come off the edge

LTs

CBs

WRs

 

That's not a coincidence. It's a result of the fact that they are the positions that give the biggest bang for the buck, and kickers are far far below them. As I pointed out above, the highest-paid kicker gets an average of $5M a year (which is a bit below what Tyler Kroft gets). That's how important they're considered.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Chandler#81]

Medical Staff.

[Bubba Gump]

In NE it was always massage therapist. Now that Brady is gone, it's prolly the first most important now.

[JMF2006]

I voted LS we need to lock up RF long term 6yrs 120m should get it done  

 

No seriously it depends on the team....in Philly it was the BU QB....... in KC its the TE....in Buffalo its a WR.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

WR. Interesting that the number of threads about how you don’t need a #1 wide receiver to win the super bowl has dropped to zero since we acquired one.

[JMF2006]

1 minute ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

WR. Interesting that the number of threads about how you don’t need a #1 wide receiver to win the super bowl has dropped to zero since we acquired one.

 

The thing is you need one that fits your scheme......the Bills top WR Diggs is a perfect fit.

[K-9]

Dominant edge pass rusher. If QB is the most important position, then the ability to consistently pressure the opponent’s most important position is the second most critical position. 

[papazoid]

i would argue in todays game.....an All Pro TE makes a bigger impact in the game.

(CONSIDER HIM A COMBO  OT/WR....lol)

 

Tight End — Travis Kelce, Kansas City

Tight End --  George Kittle , San Fran

(IMAGINE EITHER OF THESE ON THE BILLS ....OH MY)

 

Edge Rusher — T.J. Watt, Pittsburgh;

Edge Rusher -- Myles Garrett, Cleveland

(THESE  TWO COMBINED FOR ZERO SACKS  LAST NIGHT )

 

Left Tackle — David Bakhtiari, Green Bay

Right Tackle — Jack Conklin, Cleveland

 

 

[BarleyNY]

On 1/5/2021 at 11:54 AM, Magox said:

I say CB.   The most potent weapon on offense aside from the QB are the WR's and if you can essentially shut down the top weapon then it opens up a lot of things that the defense can do.

I agree with this.  Obviously Edge, LT and WR are all huge but with the level of holding allowed these days I gotta go CB.  A stud CB and a stud LT both have to be consistent every play or it is probably a splash play by the other team.  A stud CB and a stud DE can change the way a defense plays and allow much more flexibility in scheme. A stud CB checks both of those boxes.  That’s my pick.

[Orlando Tim]

I think a lot has to do with the team you are playing. You can scheme around any individual otherwise but I think a true dominating person like Ted Washington truly helps at all level of defense regardless of offensive scheme.

[Real McClappy]

Entire offensive line.

 

[DCOrange]

I would say the O-Line as a whole is the most important after the QB. I voted C but I understand LT is almost certainly the more popular and maybe correct answer.

[NewEra]

Edge rusher than cornerback imo.  WR and LT up next.  

[mannc]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Puh ... ... ... leeze!  Revisit away, but claiming we won that game because of the kickers is missing the point by a million miles.

 

The fact is that it was close because we couldn't pressure the quarterback, our many early three-and-outs, and many other problems. But if you were going to (absolutely wrongly) talk about kicks as more than one of many factors, you 'd have to point out that the most important field goal of the day was the one the Bills defense didn't allow the Colts to get in range for at the end. 2:30 to go when the Colts get the ball ... and they can't get to field goal range. That was the key field goal of the day, the one we prevented them from getting into range for.

 

Again, every field goal is the result of the field position resulting from that particular drive. If the defense is a bit better it's a punt. If the offense is a bit better it's a much much easier field goal or a touchdown. Even on drives with field goals, that score isn't purely a result of the kicker ... nowhere even close.

 

 

 

 

And it's not difficult to figure out who's valued. This is a capitalist league in a capitalist society. The position that gives you the largest competitive advantage is quarterback. Who'd have guessed that they would also be the highest paid, except anyone who spent a billionth of a second thinking about it. You can tell who's important by how well they're paid. You can tell who's not by how little they're paid. (Not to mention where they are drafted ... or for kickers, generally undrafted).

 

The five highest paid positions are these:

 

QBs

pass-rushing guys who come off the edge

LTs

CBs

WRs

 

That's not a coincidence. It's a result of the fact that they are the positions that give the biggest bang for the buck, and kickers are far far below them. As I pointed out above, the highest-paid kicker gets an average of $5M a year (which is a bit below what Tyler Kroft gets). That's how important they're considered.

You're overthinking this.  The fact is, having a really good kicker, as opposed to an average or above average kicker, is probably worth 20-30 points per season, and you never know when those points are going to show up.  In Saturday's game, if you just switched kickers, the Bills probably lose that game.  Obviously, if you switch QBs the Bills lose, too, but the question was, which is the most important position other than QB.  Now I'm not saying I'd rather have Bass than Stephon Diggs or Tre White, but I do think the importance of place kickers in the NFL is massively underrated, especially in the playoffs, where the pressure is greatest and the margin for error is narrowest.  For example, it's not crazy to think that the Pats would have won two less Super Bowl rings without Adam Vinatieri. 

 

Yes, kickers are paid less than those other positions, but that doesn't answer the question.  NFL salaries are not a perfect marketplace.  I would argue that kickers are drastically undervalued by NFL GMs as well as fans because they don't like the idea that football games (and championships) are often decided by scrawny little kickers who couldn't catch a football or make a tackle if their lives depended on it.       

[Bing Bong]

Really just your next best player in a handful of positions. But for the sake of the question I've always maintained an established WR1 makes life so much easier for the other WRs, QB, even the OL in the sense that he can nullify a great pass rush by knowing how to get open early.

On 1/7/2021 at 4:06 PM, In Summary said:

The inference being that if your starter is out and you have to play the backup QB, your season rests on the backup's ability.  Going to your #2 LT, CB, RB etc would have less team impact.  Think Allen to Barlkey vs Diggs to Brown.  You can still have a good season with Brown.

Brown's production would go up, but every WR on the depth chart would be going up against a mismatch corner provided it's a competent secondary and would suffer accordingly.

 

Cole thrives with Diggs and Brown demanding the matchups they get.

Edited January 11, 2021 by FormerlyPT5P

[MrSarcasm]

On 1/5/2021 at 12:44 PM, mannc said:

Bass has had a great year so far, but the Bills' games haven't been very close, win or lose.  Bass has yet to attempt a kick to win or lose a game.  Could happen in the next few weeks....

Disagree. That 54 yard kick against the Colts was huge.

Edited January 11, 2021 by MrSarcasm

[mannc]

1 minute ago, MrSarcasm said:

Disagree. That 54 yard kick against the Colts was huge.

Take a look at the date of my post...

[MrSarcasm]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Take a look at the date of my post...

Any other predictions Nostradamus?

[BuffaloRebound]

If you go by #1 overall draft picks the last 15-20 years, after the QB it’s pass rushers and left tackles who’ve only gone #1 overall.  

[Starr Almighty]

On 1/5/2021 at 11:22 AM, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

12 or 13

Not that I'm picking kicker but I can think of 3 regular season games and the colts game as games we lose if the kicker blows it

[ColoradoBills]

Second most, missionary unless your the Saints.

[Nextmanup]

Voted WR.

 

The passing game is the first, second, and third most important aspect of any team.

 

You need to get both ends of the connection dialed in, then start to look to other positions.

 

Once you have a QB and WR to play catch, it's a good idea to eliminate your opponents ability to do the same thing.

 

So I would rate shutdown CB as 3rd most important.

 

Maybe then go to blind side OT to protect passer.  

 

Then finish off with elite pass rusher to get opponent's QB.

 

That's the Top 5 most important positions.  

 

Promote the pass, stop the pass.

 

Everything else is just filing in gaps.

 

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

colts kicker misses a kick....bass makes a bomb...we win by 3.  might be an important position.

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Voted WR.

 

The passing game is the first, second, and third most important aspect of any team.

 

You need to get both ends of the connection dialed in, then start to look to other positions.

 

Once you have a QB and WR to play catch, it's a good idea to eliminate your opponents ability to do the same thing.

 

So I would rate shutdown CB as 3rd most important.

 

Maybe then go to blind side OT to protect passer.  

 

Then finish off with elite pass rusher to get opponent's QB.

 

That's the Top 5 most important positions.  

 

Promote the pass, stop the pass.

 

Everything else is just filing in gaps.

 

 

 

 

As we saw in the Tampa game on Saturday and the Saints game last night, an elite pass rusher (or even two) can be schemed against and neutralized, especially if you have a veteran QB who can get rid of the ball quickly and if the refs allow almost limitless holding, which now seems to be the case in the NFL.  A true number 1 receiver is much more difficult to neutralize and really can only be done if you have a Jalen Ramsey or Darrell Revis on the roster.  No team has been able to stop Diggs this year, although Ramsey did a very good job on him.  A true number 1 WR also opens things up for your other receivers and your running game.   

[WEATHER DOT COM]

1 hour ago, Starr Almighty said:

Not that I'm picking kicker but I can think of 3 regular season games and the colts game as games we lose if the kicker blows it

 

So can I but as you reference it doesn't mean a kicker is the second most important position on a football team.

 

And do we lose if Bass goes 1/2? We go to OT...

 

The Bills would have been 9-6-1 this year if they decided to never kick an extra point or field goal - and forfeit each 2 point attempt.

 

Not bad.

[reddogblitz]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:20 AM, GoBills808 said:

Still 13

 

Put the worst kicker on the cheats*, how many SBs do they have?  They won 3 of them on last second FGs.

 

If you are going for it all you have to have a lights out kicker. Super glad we do.  

1 hour ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

So can I but as you reference it doesn't mean a kicker is the second most important position on a football team.

 

And do we lose if Bass goes 1/2? We go to OT...

 

The Bills would have been 9-6-1 this year if they decided to never kick an extra point or field goal - and forfeit each 2 point attempt.

 

Not bad.

 

And we'd be on the outside looking in and not win the division.  Great.  

 

Been there done that.  No thanks.

[WEATHER DOT COM]

7 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

And we'd be on the outside looking in and not win the division.  Great.  

 

I mean if the team actually forfeited every extra point/2 point conversion attempt we'd have some bigger issues. 

[Solomon Grundy]

PASS RUSHER. I would think you’d want someone who is a thrower of the football and someone who can get after the thrower of the football 

[reddogblitz]

20 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

I mean if the team actually forfeited every extra point/2 point conversion attempt we'd have some bigger issues. 

 

It was your idea. 😋

 

But yeah, it would be really dumb.

[Albany,n.y.]

RB hasn't got a vote yet.  If we had a decent one on the roster the vote would have been different.  

[billsfan89]

The trenches are the fulcrum of the game as the trench play most impacts the QB play. If your defensive line is dominating your opponents offensive line you put your opponents QB under consistent pressure and that makes them less effective and it makes running the ball nearly impossible. If your o-line is protecting your QB and opening running lanes then even an average QB can carve you up.

[Rigotz]

The highest paid Kicker in the league makes $5MM per year.

The highest paid player at any other position makes 4+ times that amount.

 

It's shocking that people actually think Kicker is the second most important position. The money doesn't lie. 

[Putin]

Referee if you’re a pats**** 

[y2zipper]

Watching this year's postseason makes me think that the answer to this question is that I want to have a dynamic skill player somewhere on my offense without a preference for what position that player plays. Obviously the trenches are an important area, but to me the offensive and defensive lines and pass rush are largely products of group play. 

 

I think that it's the piece that a lot of the lower end and a lot of the losing playoff teams don't have that some of the better playoff teams do. Indianapolis Pittsburgh and the Rams come to mind as playoff teams that have good offenses in good quarterbacks and good offensive players, But they don't have a really really dynamic physical skill player.

 

Like Cleveland has Nick Chubb, Buffalo has Diggs, Green Bay has Adams, and Kansas City and New Orleans are both teams that have two of those with kamara and Thomas in New Orleans and Kelce and Hill in Kansas City.

 

 

 

 

[Gamache518]

LT / CB

[Juice_32]

To me, after QB, most important isn’t a player. It’s the coach.

[uninja]

I will always vote long snapper because if that guy goes down during a game your game plan changes drastically. Punts and field goals automatically are either eliminated or become very risky. Depending on your placekicker you may lose your kickoff guy as well. 

[ctk232]

On 1/5/2021 at 11:48 AM, Big Blitz said:

The Center. 

 

Only other guy that touches the ball every play.  He's the leader of the oline and makes as many reads as the QB.

 

You get an elite one you're golden.  

Yup - if there was an “OL” option I’d vote that #1, and QB #2. The OL allows every other position to do what it’s supposed to. Doesn’t matter who your QB is if you don’t have the pass pro to give them time to throw, or WR time to develop routes, or run block to give RBs lanes. The entire offense and ability to score points starts and stops with the OL - and if you had to pick one among them the Center would be the captain and most vital. 
 

Hard to argue, but unless your defense is constantly putting up points, gotta give the edge to the offense - among which OL is most vital.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ctk232