somnus00 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I actually didn't like the pick of Epenesa. But even I have to defend him here. He's a young man. A rookie who didn't get a real training camp or preseason to get a feel for the NFL. And I happen to think the Bills d-line pantry is pretty well stocked at the moment. So he has to outplay those guys to move ahead on the depth chart. Give him time. And by time, I mean at least a year. I hope this young man proves me wrong with success on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuba guy Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 I think you might won't to look at last year's 1st round draft pick forgot what his name is, Josh takes pictures of him riding his horse. He did not start or play much his first 2 games also McD brings them alone slowly slow they don't hit the rookie wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) Oh please, He was a second round pick. He is not Ed Oliver. He was the BPA on McBeanes board and I'm good with that. I trust them and their damn process you know? I think the guy will be a long term player for us and if you can think back to draft day most people were thrilled with the pick as far as experts and schlubs like me or you. The comparison to Phil Hansen has me excited about the long term with this guy and I will stay on that path unless he's a dope next year and I don't believe for a moment that is the case with him. He's a hard worker and will be fine all while going through the process. I believe he is tough and smart and will benefit with time. FFS BPA on the board at that pick. I'm good and appreciate that we could honestly say that and then actually do that. Credit to McBeane for putting us in this position! It's cool to know that when one of the rentals leaves or Jerry slows or whatever, we will have a well trained process guy ready to step up. Oh, and his dad is already jumping through tables so get outta here with any negatives on this dude. Thank You Edited September 23, 2020 by beerme1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 4 hours ago, Cruiserplayer said: He’s a tad undersized . The EFF he is. 6'6" 280 lbs. Google immediately showed me some questionable site called operations.nfl.com that list the average NFL DE at 6'4" 283 lbs back in 2013. Which, to be fair... ...sounds more like an average of 3-4 DEs (5-technique) AND 4-3 DEs (techniques typically outside of the 5-gap, and therefore less likely to reward size over speed). And even so Epenesa is in no way undersized. So for a 4-3 DE (who we imagine, ideally, some day, would also slide inside on passing downs) he's actually big. Do better. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Billzfan37 said: Still should have gone cornerback with that pick. Had to be someone available at that pick better than Levi Wallace In retrospect, talented depth (or better yet, someone to push Wallace for playing time) behind our boundary corners sounds very appealing right about meow. So this begs the question: was there a solid CB prospect available at the Bills' 2nd round pick? (I honestly have no idea.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruiserplayer Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: The EFF he is. 6'6" 280 lbs. Google immediately showed me some questionable site called operations.nfl.com that list the average NFL DE at 6'4" 283 lbs back in 2013. Which, to be fair... ...sounds more like an average of 3-4 DEs (5-technique) AND 4-3 DEs (techniques typically outside of the 5-gap, and therefore less likely to reward size over speed). And even so Epenesa is in no way undersized. So for a 4-3 DE (who we imagine, ideally, some day, would also slide inside on passing downs) he's actually big. Do better. Sorry Einstein. Based on his speed I thought he was better suited for dt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy10 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Guys, I did the math on his projected career numbers. 17 snaps, 0 tackles extrapolates to 17,000 snaps and 0 tackles for his career. Fire everyone. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 8 hours ago, Dragoon said: Literally didn’t notice him. Who cares? If he’s not contributing next year I’ll gladly agree to make him the whipping boy. Absolutely, he’s the clubhouse leader in our 2021 Whipping Boy Pool. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) Recalling the "Ed Oliver is a bust" threads from last season. Also, I think there were some "Tremaine Edmunds looks slow and will never be a....." threads the year before. I can't recall specifically, but there may have even been some negative opinions on Josh Allen along the way as well.... Edited September 23, 2020 by cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 9 hours ago, dickleyjones said: McDermott tends to bring draft picks on slow, under the pretense that they must "earn it". And so it is for Epenesa. After one half of Peterman McDermott's like "Josh. You earned it." 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Cruiserplayer said: REPS Oh so not size but strength is actually what was meant to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Billzfan37 said: Still should have gone cornerback with that pick. Had to be someone available at that pick better than Levi Wallace Yeah, someone like Josh Norman. Edited September 23, 2020 by Thurman#1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 7 hours ago, somnus00 said: I actually didn't like the pick of Epenesa. But even I have to defend him here. He's a young man. A rookie who didn't get a real training camp or preseason to get a feel for the NFL. And I happen to think the Bills d-line pantry is pretty well stocked at the moment. So he has to outplay those guys to move ahead on the depth chart. Give him time. And by time, I mean at least a year. I hope this young man proves me wrong with success on the field. Maybe the Bills should just start trading away their future second picks, over the years this has not be a good round other than the great Thurman Thomas. Epenesa will have a tough time because all scouts were concerned with his lack of any athletic ability for playing the edge and only doing 17 reps on the bench at combine with 5.1 forty yard dash. I am still trying to get over the Ford pick from last season when WR Metcalf was there. The amount of times we see Ford getting benched is concerning and then you see Metcalf looking like a stud WR, i hope Ford gets it together soon. As for Epenesa, we shall see but i read so many scouting reports that his lack of speed or burst could be a problem at the NFL level. Another high motor guy and high motor players don't always work out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 7 hours ago, ganesh said: He was considered the 2nd best DE in the draft after Chase Young. I don't think he got to that level of standards without being good. Except he’s not in college anymore. I think it’s reasonable to look at the situation and conclude he needs to work on his explosive output. 5.04 40’s and 17 reps is below average for a starting NFL DE. Didn’t say he wasn’t good, I gave my opinion as to why our 2nd Round pick hasn’t seen much of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 He looks much too thin for the position, even thinner than he was in college. That is strange. He needs to add strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 13 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: He has talented veterans ahead of him. He will get his time. Luckily the Bills have built the roster well enough where draft picks dont need to be starters "off the bus" anymore. Our D line was not good this past Sunday. Oliver was manhandled most of the day and sacks came via coverage sacks or a blitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwai San Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 12 hours ago, blacklabel said: I saw him out there once or twice. Honestly, I wouldn't expect a whole lot from him this season. Without a regular off-season and pre-season games to get used to the speed of the game at the NFL level I think it's tough to expect him to come right out and tear it up. He's also seen as a bit of a project, needs refinement in some areas. But the word on him coming out of college was that he doesn't do any one thing spectacularly, but he does all things well. A quote from an AFC exec or scout said something like, "Give him a year or two and we'll all be saying, dang, we over thought it with him." Sure hope it isn't the Bills who say this in a negative way. Not saying by any stretch he should be lighting it up right now but juts hoping this pick didn't go to waste. I have trust in the process!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 49 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said: Our D line was not good this past Sunday. Oliver was manhandled most of the day and sacks came via coverage sacks or a blitz. Your comment forced me to rewatch and focus on Oliver. He was 'manhandled' 1x and that was a borderline hold/Greco Roman wrestling move. Was double teamed quite a bit and still had a real solid game. He was the only DL that consistently got his hands up. Knocked down one and just missed a couple more, not to mention a couple of hits on Fitz, a sack plus other tackles. Was our best DL in that game. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassgixxer05 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 13 hours ago, Kmart128 said: I saw him in the game a couple of times. yeah me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 4 hours ago, cage said: Recalling the "Ed Oliver is a bust" threads from last season. Also, I think there were some "Tremaine Edmunds looks slow and will never be a....." threads the year before. I can't recall specifically, but there may have even been some negative opinions on Josh Allen along the way as well.... Everyone wants their hot take to be the first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krf139 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 While this is just a guess not based on anything specific, I have a feeling we might be looking at the next Aaron Maybin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 3 hours ago, hemma said: Your comment forced me to rewatch and focus on Oliver. He was 'manhandled' 1x and that was a borderline hold/Greco Roman wrestling move. Was double teamed quite a bit and still had a real solid game. He was the only DL that consistently got his hands up. Knocked down one and just missed a couple more, not to mention a couple of hits on Fitz, a sack plus other tackles. Was our best DL in that game. I saw it differently but willing to go back and watch again. I saw him get pushed around alot during the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Oh man, we love writing off draft picks as "busts", don't we? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 13 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: Don't get me started on that...... Madden 21 was a no go for me... Madden 20 was like a cartoon and now 21 is just as bad I hear... Madden hasn't been consistently good since just after NFL 2k stopped making licensed NFL games. Don't get me wrong I am sure there have been a few good installments of Madden (personally liked Madden 10 and 11) but for the most part the best case scenario is usually a big feature will be added but then it takes 2 years before they work out all the bugs with it or they won't bother to add any big gameplay features and just refine what is there marginally and then add some big mode that adds very little to the game. I wish the NFL sold its rights to two companies again. 2K pushed Madden to be better and Madden pushed 2K to be better. 2K in my mind was always more simulation based than Madden but Madden focused on game modes and game control (unique things like QB vision and Owner mode) as well as graphics. It was great as a fan because you had a great choice between a simulation based game with great presentation (2K) or a better looking game with better gameplay modes and unique in game controls (Madden.) Both games had their pros and cons but as a consumer it was great to have a choice. Madden 04-06 was some of the best Madden games EA ever put out and certainly the best three year stretch Madden ever had. Now Madden meanders between bad and above average offerings with no alternative to the consumer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 10 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Madden hasn't been consistently good since just after NFL 2k stopped making licensed NFL games. Don't get me wrong I am sure there have been a few good installments of Madden (personally liked Madden 10 and 11) but for the most part the best case scenario is usually a big feature will be added but then it takes 2 years before they work out all the bugs with it or they won't bother to add any big gameplay features and just refine what is there marginally and then add some big mode that adds very little to the game. I wish the NFL sold its rights to two companies again. 2K pushed Madden to be better and Madden pushed 2K to be better. 2K in my mind was always more simulation based than Madden but Madden focused on game modes and game control (unique things like QB vision and Owner mode) as well as graphics. It was great as a fan because you had a great choice between a simulation based game with great presentation (2K) or a better looking game with better gameplay modes and unique in game controls (Madden.) Both games had their pros and cons but as a consumer it was great to have a choice. Madden 04-06 was some of the best Madden games EA ever put out and certainly the best three year stretch Madden ever had. Now Madden meanders between bad and above average offerings with no alternative to the consumer. I've been playing Madden EVERY YEAR since the second Madden game was produced in 1991, and this year was my breaking point. Last year the cartoonishness was so bad that I swore I wouldn't buy 21, and I stuck with it... I will play FIFA 21 this year. It's the only sports franchise EA hasn't completely ruined. I TOTALLY agree on the 2K front! 2K brought you a presentation that was really innovative and Madden copied it. Now, the innovation is a cheesy mode and shuffling around a bit for a "new" season and roster changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, EasternOHBillsFan said: I've been playing Madden EVERY YEAR since the second Madden game was produced in 1991, and this year was my breaking point. Last year the cartoonishness was so bad that I swore I wouldn't buy 21, and I stuck with it... I will play FIFA 21 this year. It's the only sports franchise EA hasn't completely ruined. I TOTALLY agree on the 2K front! 2K brought you a presentation that was really innovative and Madden copied it. Now, the innovation is a cheesy mode and shuffling around a bit for a "new" season and roster changes... I broke up with Madden many years ago around Madden 14. I just got sick of core gameplay mechanics from NFL 2k5 still not being in the game. I forgave it a bit in Madden 07-09 because they were making a jump to a new system (going from Xbox and PS2 to PS3 and the Xbox 360) and I only rented those versions. By Madden 2010-2011 they added in a lot of gameplay stuff that was in NFL 2k5 (pocket forming around the QB and gang tackling) so I enjoyed the games more even if it still had some issues. But by Madden 14 I was still frustrated by how they still lacked some key features from NFL 2k5 (the way the run blocking is and the situational awareness of the players to name some.) By then they had been working with the 360 and PS3 for nearly a decade. Once they couldn't get that stuff in there I knew Madden was never going to change. The gameplay stagnated in the early 2010's and the little things like owner mode never got improved to where they were in Madden 05/06. I am just saddened about the lack of an alternative. Only having Madden to choose from just turned me off from football video games. I remember thinking in 2004 when Madden 05 and NFL2K5 came out how much better sports games would be in 15 years and they are a mixed bag. So sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 15 hours ago, krf139 said: While this is just a guess not based on anything specific, I have a feeling we might be looking at the next Aaron Maybin. What? Where in the world did you get that comparison? Just an extremely lazy take. Epenesa was not drafted 11th overall expected to be an impact franchise player. He was drafted in the second round as depth with potential to start later. Also they play two completely different styles. Maybin had zero positional versatility. I’ll apologize in advance if you’re talking about someone else I didn’t read all 4 pages, but if that comment was about Epenesa it’s extremely lazy after we’ve barely even seen him play 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Man Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 9/23/2020 at 1:30 AM, Billzfan37 said: Still should have gone cornerback with that pick. Had to be someone available at that pick better than Levi Wallace I disagree. Next year Epenesa will be critical. Both in terms of contracts ending and cap space cuts we needed to get a pipeline of DEs. Its a really old group, and we needed to get someone in to develop. It's been shown later round CBs are far easier to find than DEs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 I’m going to have to look up his jersey number. I have to admit I’d pretty much totally forgotten about him altogether. Which is both a good and a bad thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 6:53 PM, HOUSE said: What I saw was very impressive..... But he played during the blackout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Everyone wants their hot take to be the first. Most of the time its not something they want to be remembered by. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, billsfan89 said: I broke up with Madden many years ago around Madden 14. I just got sick of core gameplay mechanics from NFL 2k5 still not being in the game. I forgave it a bit in Madden 07-09 because they were making a jump to a new system (going from Xbox and PS2 to PS3 and the Xbox 360) and I only rented those versions. By Madden 2010-2011 they added in a lot of gameplay stuff that was in NFL 2k5 (pocket forming around the QB and gang tackling) so I enjoyed the games more even if it still had some issues. But by Madden 14 I was still frustrated by how they still lacked some key features from NFL 2k5 (the way the run blocking is and the situational awareness of the players to name some.) By then they had been working with the 360 and PS3 for nearly a decade. Once they couldn't get that stuff in there I knew Madden was never going to change. The gameplay stagnated in the early 2010's and the little things like owner mode never got improved to where they were in Madden 05/06. I am just saddened about the lack of an alternative. Only having Madden to choose from just turned me off from football video games. I remember thinking in 2004 when Madden 05 and NFL2K5 came out how much better sports games would be in 15 years and they are a mixed bag. So sad. It is sad... exclusive deals has given EA way too much power. Anyone who can afford the licensing should be able to buy the rights. In FIFA 21, the Serie A Italian league is really sticking it to EA... Juventus and Roma flat out refused to sell the rights of their clubs to EA and instead gave it to Konami, so now EA has to roll with some fake logo and jersey for both teams. I hope more teams stick it to EA- more freedom to do so than the NFL teams have. Edited September 24, 2020 by EasternOHBillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 5:55 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said: He needs a year in the weight room. A 5.02 40-yard, 17 reps on the bench and 32” vertical. He is a sub-par NFL athlete based on those testing metrics, so I think that’s where he needs to improve to get onto the field. I got him by one rep in the bench press and I can run a 4.82 40, I’m better than him. 6’0 234 45 years old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 5:59 PM, buffalobillswin said: Isiah Simmons the number 8 pick only played 7 snaps for a much worse defense. Things happen So you're saying a straight up trade is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Haven't watched all plays, but on one passing down he had a great move past the LT and was heading to Fitz, but #1 got the ball out in a split second. Echo what others said, hard to get that pass rush there when the game plan calls for the release of the ball at the end of a quick drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnNord Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 6:58 PM, TBBills said: Don't worry bro... He's a "Luxury Pick" IDK he’s playing quite a bit of defensive snaps On 9/23/2020 at 8:59 AM, krf139 said: While this is just a guess not based on anything specific, I have a feeling we might be looking at the next Aaron Maybin. I wouldn’t make this jump. I do think is fair to question what his ceiling is based on how his career starts but as someone wisely pointed out you could say the same about Ed Oliver in Wwek 2 of 2019 and he came around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillswin Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 7 hours ago, without a drought said: So you're saying a straight up trade is possible. In a couple of years we can do the reverse Jerry Hughes and Kelvin Shepard trade and this time we get a 8 year started at LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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