Josh Rosen - the perfect push

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, HansLanda said:

I admit that I was a Rosen proponent on draft day a few years ago, however he does not need to be a Bill. It will put a very weird and unnecessary faux QB controversy at OBD. 

 

yep - certainly "foe"

[T master]

Seeing that Beane & company drafted Fromm this year I'm not sure they would bring in Rosen although it would be a upgrade i feel over Barkley if for nothing else just at a contract & age standpoint .

 

I was all about the Bills drafting Rosen i thought coming out of college given what he had done he was one of the best coming out that year but this guy can't get a break ! I would imagine his confidence has taken quite the hit too .

 

Beane is always looking to upgrade so the possibility is there and if Beane see's something in him as a upgrade over what they have to bring him in then i'm good with it !! 

[Green Lightning]

8 hours ago, Nelius said:

The attitude rumors have to be somewhat real at this point, right? Either he's a limited QB, or he's a potentially talented QB with a bad attitude. I don't want either.

I get that but maybe all he needs is some process. 

[Putin]

4 minutes ago, T master said:

Seeing that Beane & company drafted Fromm this year I'm not sure they would bring in Rosen although it would be a upgrade i feel over Barkley if for nothing else just at a contract & age standpoint .

 

I was all about the Bills drafting Rosen i thought coming out of college given what he had done he was one of the best coming out that year but this guy can't get a break ! I would imagine his confidence has taken quite the hit too .

 

Beane is always looking to upgrade so the possibility is there and if Beane see's something in him as a upgrade over what they have to bring him in then i'm good with it !! 

I said it  before the draft  and I’ll say it again he’ll be out of the league before his rookie contract expires .... 

 

[YoloinOhio]

8 hours ago, rayray808 said:

Rotoworld already rumored us to be in the mix but I think it makes total sense:

 

1) A back up with starter potential - should Josh Allen ever get hurt for multiple games, Rosen has a higher ceiling that Barkley.

2) A healthy competition to push JA - Lots of the top QB's around the league have solid back ups behind them to help the starter remain accountable - Rodgers/Love, Brees/Winston, Carr/Mariota, Trubisky/Foles, Wentz/Hurns, Baker/Keenum, Prescott/Dalton

 

I love Josh Allen and think he can be our franchise QB, but I would feel a lot safer seeing him hurdle opponents with Rosen holding the clipboard.

Did they link it to anything?

[TigerJ]

8 hours ago, Nelius said:

The attitude rumors have to be somewhat real at this point, right? Either he's a limited QB, or he's a potentially talented QB with a bad attitude. I don't want either.

This would be my concern.  I don't know that it has to be that dichotomy, but that's the most likely explanation for his lack of success in the league so far.

[C.Biscuit97]

I know everyone hates him because of the draft but honestly, has any high pick qb been given a worse opportunity to ever succeed? 
 

This sounds crazy but Buffalo is about as good of an environment for a young qb to succeed.  I’m pretty sure he’s better than Fromm and I think his basement is Barkley.  Rosen made some special , Aaron Rodgers throws in college.  I’d love to see us bring him in and keep him as a 3rd qb

18 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

This would be my concern.  I don't know that it has to be that dichotomy, but that's the most likely explanation for his lack of success in the league so far.

I haven’t heard any attitude problems from Miami.  And if you were in his shoes, wouldn’t you be a little pissed too?  Dude is getting totally boned right now.  He isnt given a chance to make it

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

9 hours ago, rayray808 said:

Rotoworld already rumored us to be in the mix but I think it makes total sense:

 

1) A back up with starter potential - should Josh Allen ever get hurt for multiple games, Rosen has a higher ceiling that Barkley.

2) A healthy competition to push JA - Lots of the top QB's around the league have solid back ups behind them to help the starter remain accountable - Rodgers/Love, Brees/Winston, Carr/Mariota, Trubisky/Foles, Wentz/Hurns, Baker/Keenum, Prescott/Dalton

 

I love Josh Allen and think he can be our franchise QB, but I would feel a lot safer seeing him hurdle opponents with Rosen holding the clipboard.

Why is Mayfield the only one to be called by his first name? You'd think his name is Mayfield Baker with everyone calling him Baker for some reason

[Mr. K]

Josh Allen on this day has closed the case on one of the QBs from his class being "better" than him.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

3 hours ago, stevestojan said:

Weird that the guys at One Bills Drive knew more than this message board on draft day. 
 

 

to be fair to us, for many years we DID collectively know more than the guys at OBD.

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

Can he dance better to Renegade?

 

Dam.  Ok, keep Barkley 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

Can he be that much worse than Matt Barkley?  

 

Yes. He probably can be. And that's strictly on the field. He's probably without a doubt much worse than Barkely in the locker room and film room.

9 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

What has Rosen done or shown to even suggest he’s better than Barkley? Or Fromm? 
Rosens play has been at a disaster level. 
I’ll be the first to admit he’s been in bad spots when asked to play but he’s still shown nothing that we don’t already have. I’d rather be go to Seattle or the giants or Atlanta or somewhere in the NFC where he’ll have a shot to actually sit and learn and get his redemption chance later. 

Agreed. He's had more than enough opportunities to somehow end up in New England by now too. You would think if he had any kind of potential in this league BB would have brought him in by now. 

[Jamie Mueller]

Confession... I strongly preferred Rosen (and Lamar Jackson) over Josh Allen back in 2018.  I wasn't suicidal over the pick, like some folks were.  I just saw Josh Rosen as the prototypical NFL star quarterback.  You never really know about these things, I guess.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

8 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Rosen is a prime example of fans who "saw him play in college" and expected big things.  

I'll admit, that game he had against Texas A&M was one for the ages. Unfortunately that was the pinnacle of his football career.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, rayray808 said:

Rotoworld already rumored us to be in the mix but I think it makes total sense:

 

1) A back up with starter potential - should Josh Allen ever get hurt for multiple games, Rosen has a higher ceiling that Barkley.

2) A healthy competition to push JA - Lots of the top QB's around the league have solid back ups behind them to help the starter remain accountable - Rodgers/Love, Brees/Winston, Carr/Mariota, Trubisky/Foles, Wentz/Hurns, Baker/Keenum, Prescott/Dalton

 

I love Josh Allen and think he can be our franchise QB, but I would feel a lot safer seeing him hurdle opponents with Rosen holding the clipboard.

 

You're strange.  You're Our Kinda Strange, but you're strange.  I'm glad you would feel a lot safer, but I would wager that few share your feelings of "safe"

 

First of all, there's the contention that the QB pairs you mention are 1) solid backups 2) "help the starter remain accountable" or "push" the starter.  Sorry, don't buy it.

 

There are two classes of backups you mention.  One is guys who have not shown a thing in the NFL, yet.  OK, eventually Jordan Love may push Aaron Rodgers.  But as a rookie, that time is not yet.  The rookie has to show something in the NFL.  He would be far from the only guy drafted in the 1st round who may or may not cut it at the NFL level. 

 

Jalen Hurts would be another one of those - a relatively high draft pick who has yet to show he can play in the NFL. (I assume that's who you mean by Wentz/Hurns)

 

Overall, QB drafted outside the top 5 picks of the first round "flame out" at a high rate - only 20-30% of them become capable NFL QB.  Not "the franchise", just capable.  So maybe those guys can play - but they gotta prove it first.

 

The second class of guys you mention are starters who have already flamed out as starters.  Winston, Mariota, Dalton and Keenum are all in that class.  Foles is kind of in that class.  They had their shot, and their teams moved on.

 

I don't think Brees is looking over his shoulder at Jameis "Crab Legs" Winston.  The guy needed a new home for a reason.  I mean, it's great when you can throw for 5100 yds and 33 TDs, but when your TD/INT ratio is essentially 1:1, not so much.  Add ~3 sacks per game to those 2 INT per game and yeah, he's at the stage where Sean Payton is spinning a prayer wheel if Winston has to take over, not a "healthy competition to push" Brees.  Winston has a "gun" and he's shown definitively he can and will shoot his own team in the foot with it.

Mariota got his shot to start for 5 years and basically got replaced for ineffectiveness.  The Raiders paid him as though he'd be pushing Carr, but the reports out of camp say "Not so much". 

 

Dalton had a long run of being a capable NFL QB but last season it looked like he's "done a Schaub" - the head is willing but the arm doesn't send the ball where he expects it to go, with the velocity he expects any more, meaning a formerly reliable QB has now become Mr. PicksoMatic.  I don't think Prescott feels "held accountable" by having Dalton there.

 

Foles and Keenum have both shown top-caliber NFL play and earned their shot to take over a team - Keenum in Denver and Washington, Foles in Jax.  Both failed to deliver.

 

OK, so now let's turn to Rosen.  Here's a top draft pick who actually was given the keys and the chance to start on two different teams, and failed to show enough to persuade them to build around him.

 

I get it you personally would feel better with Rosen vs Barkley holding the clipboard, but my question is: Why?  On what basis?  Part of why Rosen "lost the keys" last year is that he couldn't seem to figure out where he was supposed to go with the ball in Chad O'Shea's complex E-P based offense.  It's not so clear he's doing any better in Chan Gailey's more QB-friendly stripped down E-P.    Daboll runs a simpler offense?  Ah, that would be No. 

Finally there's this.  Just the facts ma'am:

Rosen

Barkley

 

Can you point out what there leads you to believe Rosen can do better?

 

9 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

What has Rosen done or shown to even suggest he’s better than Barkley? Or Fromm? 
Rosens play has been at a disaster level. 
I’ll be the first to admit he’s been in bad spots when asked to play but he’s still shown nothing that we don’t already have. I’d rather be go to Seattle or the giants or Atlanta or somewhere in the NFC where he’ll have a shot to actually sit and learn and get his redemption chance later. 

 

Exactly.  Rosen has been in bad spots - as Barkley was in Chicago.  But he's failed to show even flashes of something better.

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Yes. He probably can be. And that's strictly on the field. He's probably without a doubt much worse than Barkely in the locker room and film room.

Agreed. He's had more than enough opportunities to somehow end up in New England by now too. You would think if he had any kind of potential in this league BB would have brought him in by now. 

“He’s probably without a doubt”. Love it

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Surely he would benefit from the sunny disposition and good attitude of the coach in Jacksonville.  😁

Edited September 5, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, Dragoon said:

Id honestly be intrigued about picking him up.  But man....he’s kinda be a waste of a roster spot. He’d be useless for several weeks as he learns the playbook. 

 

Then he'd be useless the rest of the weeks because he's not very good.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

35 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I haven’t heard any attitude problems from Miami.  And if you were in his shoes, wouldn’t you be a little pissed too?  Dude is getting totally boned right now.  He isnt given a chance to make it

 

You haven't?  How about this from Flores?

https://clutchpoints.com/dolphins-news-josh-rosens-body-language-needs-to-improve-says-brian-flores/

"Rosen was visibly annoyed with teammates during a recent joint practice with the Buccaneers, during which his protection repeatedly broke down. Flores took issue with Rosen’s demeanor when speaking to the media after the practice.....“We want good body language out of everybody,” Flores continued. “We’re going to have bad plays. We need to move on to the next one, period. Players, coaches, that’s everybody. The quarterback position, they’re all looking at you. That’s something they have to be conscious of.” "

I heard similar when he was benched during the season.

 

I don't think Rosen's "attitude problems" were ever quite what was puffed up pre draft.  But enough people have said that he has had the "I believe I'm the smartest guy in the room" affect that I think it's probably true.  Put in the room with Mr. "I'm from NE" OC and Mr Harvard, the Light Bulb may have gone on "I'm not the smartest guy in the room" right now, but unclear if that status would revert if placed in a different QB room with players he may not perceive as "in his intellectual league".

These are not the descriptions of a guy who can step in and have the team believe in him, be a "leader of men" and have the guys willing to "run through a wall" for him.  This is not a guy who would get pancaked and lose a playoff game because his OL and his TE missed a block and be quoted in the media raving about how much he loves those guys and what a star said TE is going to be a couple weeks later.

 

[starrymessenger]

I have a hard time seeing how the chemistry would work with both Josh's on the Bills given the draft history. And I have no feel for whether Rosen could be comfortable assuming at best a back up role with the Bills. I tend to think that Allen as the ensconced starter and team leader would have a big enuf personality to handle it. Not sure that Rosen could deal with it and be productive but who knows. Given McD's emphasis on having wholesome lockerroom with everybody properly focussed on team first (rather than personal) agendas I doubt Beane would pick him up off the scrap heap. 

However, In terms of raw physical ability for playing the all important position there can be little doubt that Rosen is way better than any QB not named Allen on the Bills. And he's only 23 years old. And he's been in lousy offences not well designed to develop the skills that he does possess. 

With Rosen the question for any team that might be interested is whether he just lacks the mental ability to process at the NFL level, to make good pre and post snap adjustments to the play calls based on what opposing defences are presenting. If he can learn to do that in an O conducive to his skillset he has a future, quite possibly a good one. If this represents a congenital failure that cannot be corrected then he really has no future in the league. Processing speed, or more specifically the lack thereof, has been the bane of many good college QBs, and there will be many more. After stints with two teams and the fact that no one was willing to trade for him, it would seem that the prevailing league opinion is that he's a bust.

If Daboll thinks he can develop the guy however, I could see little reason, absent the chemistry issue, for not favouring him over Fromm and Webb.

I have to wonder whether the Pats might be interested.

 

 

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Finally there's this.  Just the facts ma'am:

Rosen

Barkley

 

Can you point out what there leads you to believe Rosen can do better?

 

Int %? it should be pretty clear that Rosen is the better talent. Barkley was viewed as a bust/disappointment for years until he hid in the shadows of the league just long enough to emerge as a "veteran" and all of the one time notions of being a #1 overall pick faded into obscurity with the likes of Jevan Snead . Matt Barkley has had 2 great games of football in the NFL. One of them was for the Bills and I was a big fan of it. That's about where the Matt Barkley story sits.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

How long does 'Superstar' backup Josh Allen until he starts grumbling over his and others believing Rosen is the superior player?  

Edited September 5, 2020 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Don Otreply]

No

 

Go Bills!!!

[TBBills]

11 hours ago, rayray808 said:

Rotoworld already rumored us to be in the mix but I think it makes total sense:

 

1) A back up with starter potential - should Josh Allen ever get hurt for multiple games, Rosen has a higher ceiling that Barkley.

2) A healthy competition to push JA - Lots of the top QB's around the league have solid back ups behind them to help the starter remain accountable - Rodgers/Love, Brees/Winston, Carr/Mariota, Trubisky/Foles, Wentz/Hurns, Baker/Keenum, Prescott/Dalton

 

I love Josh Allen and think he can be our franchise QB, but I would feel a lot safer seeing him hurdle opponents with Rosen holding the clipboard.

Why do you want garbage backing up Josh Allen? None of those are solid backups just FYI, except maybe Dalton but we have already seen his best.

Edited September 5, 2020 by TBBills

[Orlando Tim]

I do not see why people keep pushing to get him, he had a bad attitude coming out of college, was given up for peanuts after one year by Arizona, and has shown no ability while on the field. He is garbage on the field.

[JMF2006]

We got a guy who helps and supports JA and they get along great.

 

JA does not need to be pushed by anyone for motivation.

 

Some times the best teachers are the guys that can't quite succeed hence the saying "those that can't do teach"

 

This isn't a video game these are real people with real feelings and emotions.

 

Why mess with team chemistry if you don't have too?

 

Let the wrong Josh take his hottub somewhere else.

[Victory Formation]

Nope.

[ganesh]

14 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

This falls into trying to collect talent vs team building.  It could be argued that it would not even add talent and the Bills are better off with Barkley overall.

I would rather have Glennon who was released today by the Jaguars.

[IgotBILLStopay]

 never let a second rooster into the henhouse. don’t wanna confuse the hens 😀

[bobobonators]

8 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I do not see why people keep pushing to get him, he had a bad attitude coming out of college, was given up for peanuts after one year by Arizona, and has shown no ability while on the field. He is garbage on the field.

it really does strike me as odd, too. To hear numerous posters say Rosen has gotten a raw deal is a head scratcher.
 

Andrew Luck got a raw deal by being drafted by the Colts and despite the crappy franchise all he did was win.

 

Teams cant get rid of hot tub Rosen fast enough. When a player’s worth is addition by subtraction, stay away. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

29 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

it really does strike me as odd, too. To hear numerous posters say Rosen has gotten a raw deal is a head scratcher.
 

Andrew Luck got a raw deal by being drafted by the Colts and despite the crappy franchise all he did was win.

 

Teams cant get rid of hot tub Rosen fast enough. When a player’s worth is addition by subtraction, stay away. 

Process wants nothing to do with him is my guess

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Did 26copypaste come back with a troll account?

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Dodged a bullet with this kid 

[Putin]

What ?? 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 hours ago, bobobonators said:

it really does strike me as odd, too. To hear numerous posters say Rosen has gotten a raw deal is a head scratcher.
 

Andrew Luck got a raw deal by being drafted by the Colts and despite the crappy franchise all he did was win.

 

Teams cant get rid of hot tub Rosen fast enough. When a player’s worth is addition by subtraction, stay away. 

Andrew Luck?!

🎶 An-drew-ew Luck 🎵

[Saint Doug]

It’s not about adding the most talent we can at backup QB. Josh needs a veteran presence to mentor him. Barkley does that. Rosen doesn’t add anything. 

[Mr. WEO]

yes but is he available IN trade?

[Jester]

Nope. We don’t need “wrong” Josh in any capacity. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 td and 5 INTS and a total of 300 passing yards, yeah no thanks. We could get better production out of Barkley and even Glennon for that matter 

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Dodged a bullet with this kid 

I thought for sure they were gonna take him, I sat there and thought well here’s to a 5-6 year set back at the QB spot once again

Edited September 6, 2020 by BuffaloBills1998

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, bobobonators said:

it really does strike me as odd, too. To hear numerous posters say Rosen has gotten a raw deal is a head scratcher.
Andrew Luck got a raw deal by being drafted by the Colts and despite the crappy franchise all he did was win.

Teams cant get rid of hot tub Rosen fast enough. When a player’s worth is addition by subtraction, stay away. 

 

Or at least, teams seem to be deciding that a single season constitutes "I've seen enough".

 

I do think Rosen has gotten a bit of a raw deal.  To be on his 4th OC and 3rd HC in 2 years, the OL and WR around him...no question it is not an ideal situation for a developing QB.  If he'd only had one playbook and one OC to work with all that time, perhaps he'd be further along.

 

On the the other hand and to your point...when the head coach goes from criticizing the guy's body language/demeanor last training camp:

https://clutchpoints.com/dolphins-news-josh-rosens-body-language-needs-to-improve-says-brian-flores/

Rosen was visibly annoyed with teammates during a recent joint practice with the Buccaneers, during which his protection repeatedly broke down. Flores took issue with Rosen’s demeanor when speaking to the media after the practice, per Chris Perkins of The Athletic. “I thought he practiced OK,” Flores said. “From the naked eye, I think he’s got to do a better job of getting guys in and out of the huddle, his communication, body language. There were some plays there he didn’t like, and we’ve just got to move on to the next play.”

 

To saying he struggles with stuff a pro QB has got to be able to do:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29813475/dolphins-releasing-quarterback-josh-rosen

Flores said Rosen had the best arm of all the quarterbacks in camp, but Rosen fell behind when it came to the processing part of football -- identifying defenses pre-snap, being able to predict changing coverages and linebackers shifting, and ultimately being able to let the ball fly accurately and on time. Those are all skills Rosen has spent time working on this offseason in Miami.

 

We don't need a backup QB in B'lo who struggles to ID coverage pre snap and figure out where to go with the ball.  That would not be an upgrade on Barkley, even if he does have better physical talent.