Josh Allen focusing on deep ball, team communication in offseason work

[YoloinOhio]

Josh Allen gets creative in offseason work, focusing on deep ball

https://buffalonews.com/2020/04/01/jordan-palmer-josh-allen-nfl-offseason-quarterback-buffalo-bills-skurski/

With Allen, the offseason theme has been working on his deep ball, Palmer said.

"Just focusing on keeping his shoulder level. If you look at him at any point right now, his shoulder level is going to be far more parallel to the ground, then horizontal then leaning back where the front shoulder tips up," he said. "We’ve spent a lot of time and he’s talked to some other folks, too. We’ve put a plan together. We’re a month or two into it and I think it’s going to be a big improvement this year."
 

The other thing Palmer has tried to get his clients – a group that also includes Jets quarterback Sam Darnold – to do is build better relationships with teammates.

"If you can really talk and communicate more with the defensive leaders more than you normally would this time of year, you can build deeper relationships," he said. "It’s kind of all you can do to help your team because you can’t really organize collectively as a group. You can’t throw and get timing. The only chance you have to get better is communicate more and stay closer through this. That’s what I’ve been pushing guys to do. Improve the things you can control.

"(Allen and Darnold) are making multiple calls a day connecting with guys. It doesn’t cost you anything. You’ve got plenty of free time and you know everyone else has free time. I just told them if you’re going to compete this time of year, you’re limited on what you can do with yourself and limited on what you can do with teammates physically, you can communicate better than every other team in the league. This whole league is about creating advantages for your team."

[whatdrought]

If Josh improves his deep ball the same amount as he did his intermediate stuff last year, he’s gonna be scary. I expect him to. 

[aristocrat]

what is he throwing it state to state with the qurantine?

[Philo]

5 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

what is he throwing it state to state with the qurantine?

 

Over them mountains, obviously ?

[Mickey]

So last night, after draining a healthy glass of absinthe, you know, the favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores, I had a vision. I was surrounded by a dense, emerald green fog that blinded me until a cool breeze gradually pushed the fog further and further away. As the fog receded, I could barely make out the silhouette  of two football players. Slowly, the helmeted figures emerged and there he was, Josh Allen, resplendent in his red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. But he wasn't alone. Standing next to him was none other than Sam Darnold who though less resplendent than Josh, was also sporting a red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. Sam explained that in 2020, the Jets, being the Jets, tanked and then took Lawrence No. 1 in the 2021 draft. Josh insisted that the Bills pick up the recently released Darnold to be his back-up. I asked Josh how we did in 2020 but before he could respond, he started yelling at me to stop drinking so much and to let our barking dog in before the neighbors went crazy.  His voice and appearance started changing until he was gone and all that was left was my now irate wife who was not looking at all resplendent.   

[Dr. Who]

5 minutes ago, Mickey said:

So last night, after draining a healthy glass of absinthe, you know, the favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores, I had a vision. I was surrounded by a dense, emerald green fog that blinded me until a cool breeze gradually pushed the fog further and further away. As the fog receded, I could barely make out the silhouette  of two football players. Slowly, the helmeted figures emerged and there he was, Josh Allen, resplendent in his red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. But he wasn't alone. Standing next to him was none other than Sam Darnold who though less resplendent than Josh, was also sporting a red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. Sam explained that in 2020, the Jets, being the Jets, tanked and then took Lawrence No. 1 in the 2021 draft. Josh insisted that the Bills pick up the recently released Darnold to be his back-up. I asked Josh how we did in 2020 but before he could respond, he started yelling at me to stop drinking so much and to let our barking dog in before the neighbors went crazy.  His voice and appearance started changing until he was gone and all that was left was my now irate wife who was not looking at all resplendent.   

The answer is they never had a season. The NFL used a lottery system to determine the draft order. The Bills ended up picking 32nd. Now go out and cut the lawn. (Just channeling irate wifey. Love the fin-de-siècle aesthetic references. I wrote a novel with a significant character named Absinthe.)

[TtownBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, Mickey said:

So last night, after draining a healthy glass of absinthe, you know, the favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores, I had a vision. I was surrounded by a dense, emerald green fog that blinded me until a cool breeze gradually pushed the fog further and further away. As the fog receded, I could barely make out the silhouette  of two football players. Slowly, the helmeted figures emerged and there he was, Josh Allen, resplendent in his red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. But he wasn't alone. Standing next to him was none other than Sam Darnold who though less resplendent than Josh, was also sporting a red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. Sam explained that in 2020, the Jets, being the Jets, tanked and then took Lawrence No. 1 in the 2021 draft. Josh insisted that the Bills pick up the recently released Darnold to be his back-up. I asked Josh how we did in 2020 but before he could respond, he started yelling at me to stop drinking so much and to let our barking dog in before the neighbors went crazy.  His voice and appearance started changing until he was gone and all that was left was my now irate wife who was not looking at all resplendent.   

We really, REALLY need a "wow!" emoji smiley-face thingy for posts just like this!

[Codyny13]

1 hour ago, aristocrat said:

what is he throwing it state to state with the qurantine?

I’m sure they’ll figure something out. Watching videos of Zay working out with Derek Carr yesterday. I wish he looked as good on the field as he did in shorts catching passes. Anyway, he’ll have guys in Cali to throw to.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I told Levi to tell Josh to "throw it far". Glad to see the message was delivered promptly. 

[finn]

Forgot the shoulders, just put some more air under the ball. Compare Allen's deep ball to Mahomes: Allen throws it on a rope, which means if it's off just a bit the receiver will miss it. Mahomes lofts it in a pretty arc so the receiver can run under it. 

[Logic]

[Mr. WEO]

I gotta hand it to Palmer.  Every time he's commenting on a player as an "insider", he's promoting his business. 

 

Sweet setup.

 

 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, finn said:

Forgot the shoulders, just put some more air under the ball. Compare Allen's deep ball to Mahomes: Allen throws it on a rope, which means if it's off just a bit the receiver will miss it. Mahomes lofts it in a pretty arc so the receiver can run under it. 

Yeah I think I'll go with Josh the pro QB and the QB trainer on this one.

[starrymessenger]

Early last year his long ball seemed to me Manuelesque bad at times but I thought I saw some improvement, including a few outstanding throws, as the year progressed. Could be wrong but I also thought it was better at WYO, when he used it, which suggested to me that this was partly the result of the process of converting him into more of a pro pocket passer with greater emphasis on short and intermediate range throws. He improved his accuracy with intermediate, including touch throws outside the hash marks, but his short game needs work. Looked like JP at times. 

Hes got a lot on his plate. Good chance he gets to where he needs to be IMO.

Edited April 2, 2020 by starrymessenger

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, whatdrought said:

If Josh improves his deep ball the same amount as he did his intermediate stuff last year, he’s gonna be scary. I expect him to. 

Good call out. Josh was much improved 10-20 yards.  

The deep ball is always going to be less successful but last year he was so far off that teams didn't need to double deep and few PI calls as the ball was nowhere close.  

The most troubling thing was there were guys that had multiple steps on the defender and Allen missed them - usually an overthrow.  To me that is anxiety, not mechanics.  

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Good call out. Josh was much improved 10-20 yards.  

The deep ball is always going to be less successful but last year he was so far off that teams didn't need to double deep and few PI calls as the ball was nowhere close.  

The most troubling thing was there were guys that had multiple steps on the defender and Allen missed them - usually an overthrow.  To me that is anxiety, not mechanics.  

I think anxiety triggers bad fundamentals/mechanics. The trick is to re-write the muscle memory so that when he’s in “oh *****” mode, he reverts to good mechanics, not bad. 

[John from Riverside]

If he can start hitting on his deep ball he is a top 5 to 7 QB in the league.......there I said it

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I think anxiety triggers bad fundamentals/mechanics. The trick is to re-write the muscle memory so that when he’s in “oh *****” mode, he reverts to good mechanics, not bad. 

Agree but the solution is not rewrite the memory. The solution is earlier recognition so the oh-***** moments are less.  

Even the great ones throw bad balls every game.  Just need 1-2 less bad throws, 1-2 less drops(Knox), and 1 miracle NFL holy ***** how did he catch that pass per game(Diggs and Brown).  Then Allen is a 63% completion guy and the offense is lethal.

[Stank_Nasty]

25 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

If he can start hitting on his deep ball he is a top 5 to 7 QB in the league.......there I said it

I would say If that’s all that improves then it’s in the 8-12 range. But I’m just picking nits. I would also be really happy with that in year 3. 
 

.... and I don’t think that’s the only thing that will improve. 

[BringBackFlutie]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

Not gonna lie.  The first I heard of quarantining and staying home, the only thing that crossed my mind was, "how is Josh gonna train with Palmer?  Can they quarantine together?"

[RobbRiddick]

6 hours ago, Mickey said:

So last night, after draining a healthy glass of absinthe, you know, the favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores, I had a vision. I was surrounded by a dense, emerald green fog that blinded me until a cool breeze gradually pushed the fog further and further away. As the fog receded, I could barely make out the silhouette  of two football players. Slowly, the helmeted figures emerged and there he was, Josh Allen, resplendent in his red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. But he wasn't alone. Standing next to him was none other than Sam Darnold who though less resplendent than Josh, was also sporting a red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. Sam explained that in 2020, the Jets, being the Jets, tanked and then took Lawrence No. 1 in the 2021 draft. Josh insisted that the Bills pick up the recently released Darnold to be his back-up. I asked Josh how we did in 2020 but before he could respond, he started yelling at me to stop drinking so much and to let our barking dog in before the neighbors went crazy.  His voice and appearance started changing until he was gone and all that was left was my now irate wife who was not looking at all resplendent.   

 

And then you looked down and saw Rex Ryan with your foot in his mouth. 

 

Things get crazy on absinthe

37 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

If he can start hitting on his deep ball he is a top 5 to 7 QB in the league.......there I said it

Totally. Not even a controversial take. I was re-watching some of his best throws from this season and some of them are just mind blowing. The kind of throws very few QBs in history can make. Especially when he's throwing across his body while on the run. He made one in the Texans game before the infamous penalty and it was a thing of beauty.

 

If he starts hitting deep passes consistently all the nay sayers will fall in love with him and he'll be in serious consideration for the league MVP. There, I said it!

[rayray808]

just when I thought I couldn't love Josh more, he goes ahead and does something like this ?

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Agree but the solution is not rewrite the memory. The solution is earlier recognition so the oh-***** moments are less.  

Even the great ones throw bad balls every game.  Just need 1-2 less bad throws, 1-2 less drops(Knox), and 1 miracle NFL holy ***** how did he catch that pass per game(Diggs and Brown).  Then Allen is a 63% completion guy and the offense is lethal.

 

 

Yep, it doesnt sound like a lot but ii is and still reasonable.  I have been saying for a year now every weekend on ESPN you see 5 or 6 miracle catches buy the pros and you know what, they are never by the Bills.

 

Well we got Diggs now, we got an O line, a good RB.  J Allen in his third year has all the tools now, been in the same system, same OC and HC.....lets see what he can do, no more excuses imo.

[Neo]

7 hours ago, Mickey said:

So last night, after draining a healthy glass of absinthe, you know, the favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores, I had a vision. I was surrounded by a dense, emerald green fog that blinded me until a cool breeze gradually pushed the fog further and further away. As the fog receded, I could barely make out the silhouette  of two football players. Slowly, the helmeted figures emerged and there he was, Josh Allen, resplendent in his red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. But he wasn't alone. Standing next to him was none other than Sam Darnold who though less resplendent than Josh, was also sporting a red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. Sam explained that in 2020, the Jets, being the Jets, tanked and then took Lawrence No. 1 in the 2021 draft. Josh insisted that the Bills pick up the recently released Darnold to be his back-up. I asked Josh how we did in 2020 but before he could respond, he started yelling at me to stop drinking so much and to let our barking dog in before the neighbors went crazy.  His voice and appearance started changing until he was gone and all that was left was my now irate wife who was not looking at all resplendent.   

Oh, my .....  high honors.

[Buffalo716]

8 hours ago, whatdrought said:

If Josh improves his deep ball the same amount as he did his intermediate stuff last year, he’s gonna be scary. I expect him to. 

I don't think Josh threw a terrible intermediate ball his rook year, I just don't think he had weapons that could get open there

 

My favorite thing about his college game was the way he could sling 12-20 yarders on the dime 

 

I actually think he got alot better inside 10 yards. Either way he really progressed last year and he should take another jump

 

I'd be willing to bet it

Edited April 2, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Victory Formation]

I couldn’t careless about the deep ball. Give me a QB that can work those short to intermediate throws with precision accuracy all day over the occasional deep ball. I think those 10-20 yard throws is what makes or breaks a QB. Sure it’d be nice to see but I’d love to see the analytics on how much yardage and production comes for the average QB on passes over 40 yards. I’m guessing it’s not much. I prefer the death by a 1,000 cuts approach instead.

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I couldn’t careless about the deep ball. Give me a QB that can work those short to intermediate throws with precision accuracy all day over the occasional deep ball. I think those 10-20 yard throws is what makes or breaks a QB. Sure it’d be nice to see but I’d love to see the analytics on how much yardage and production comes for the average QB on passes over 40 yards. I’m guessing it’s not much. I prefer the death by a 1,000 cuts approach instead.

 

The deep ball and long medium range passes are what separate the good QB's from the great ones. You have to be able to hit passes downfield in order to keep defenses honest. If you are only able to work the short and intermediate range you end up like Chad Pennington where your success is always going to be capped because great defenses will force you to beat them downfield. 

 

Unlike a Chad Pennington Allen has the arm strength to make any throw. He has to be good enough at the deep ball to keep teams honest enough to keep the short and intermediate routes open. 

[Troll Toll]

8 hours ago, Mickey said:

So last night, after draining a healthy glass of absinthe, you know, the favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores, I had a vision. I was surrounded by a dense, emerald green fog that blinded me until a cool breeze gradually pushed the fog further and further away. As the fog receded, I could barely make out the silhouette  of two football players. Slowly, the helmeted figures emerged and there he was, Josh Allen, resplendent in his red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. But he wasn't alone. Standing next to him was none other than Sam Darnold who though less resplendent than Josh, was also sporting a red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. Sam explained that in 2020, the Jets, being the Jets, tanked and then took Lawrence No. 1 in the 2021 draft. Josh insisted that the Bills pick up the recently released Darnold to be his back-up. I asked Josh how we did in 2020 but before he could respond, he started yelling at me to stop drinking so much and to let our barking dog in before the neighbors went crazy.  His voice and appearance started changing until he was gone and all that was left was my now irate wife who was not looking at all resplendent.   

This post is enshrined in my Hall of Fame of message board posts.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

He also needs to work on throwing laterals.

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, finn said:

Forgot the shoulders, just put some more air under the ball. Compare Allen's deep ball to Mahomes: Allen throws it on a rope, which means if it's off just a bit the receiver will miss it. Mahomes lofts it in a pretty arc so the receiver can run under it. 

It's called TRAJECTORY.  Mahomes has it and Josh doesn't.  He struggles with touch passes both intermediate and deep. He just chucks it hard and flat rarely giving the wr an opportunity at a 50/50 ball. I don't know how much shoulder technique will help with this? 

[Victory Formation]

35 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The deep ball and long medium range passes are what separate the good QB's from the great ones. You have to be able to hit passes downfield in order to keep defenses honest. If you are only able to work the short and intermediate range you end up like Chad Pennington where your success is always going to be capped because great defenses will force you to beat them downfield. 

 

Unlike a Chad Pennington Allen has the arm strength to make any throw. He has to be good enough at the deep ball to keep teams honest enough to keep the short and intermediate routes open. 

There’s some truth to that but I still say that those 10-20yd throws are where QBs are made or broken. Sure, the occasional deep throw keeps defenses honest but the short to intermediate throws are more important for QBing. Many, many good QBs have had stellar careers as surgeons dissecting defenses underneath. Very few QBs have had a stellar careers throwing Hail Mary’s every play. The shorter the throw, the higher the completion %. The longer the throw, the lower the completion %. It’d be nice to see Allen connect more down the field, but let’s not pretend like his shorter game doesn’t need more work. He looked good there but I think he could use to touch up his game there too.

[billsfan89]

4 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

There’s some truth to that but I still say that those 10-20yd throws are where QBs are made or broken. Sure, the occasional deep throw keeps defenses honest but the short to intermediate throws are more important for QBing. Many, many good QBs have had stellar careers as surgeons dissecting defenses underneath. Very few QBs have had a stellar careers throwing Hail Mary’s every play. The shorter the throw, the higher the completion %. The longer the throw, the lower the completion %. It’d be nice to see Allen connect more down the field, but let’s not pretend like his shorter game doesn’t need more work. He looked good there but I think he could use to touch up his game there too.

 

I would say about 85% of throws are less than 20 yards or blatant throw aways. BUT that 15-20% of throws that go deep down field opens up ease of the other 80-85% of throws. The reason Mahomes and other elite QB's chew up defenses is because it becomes pick your poison he will be patient and dink and dunk you or if you tighten up on him he can beat you downfield. Even Brady who was much more of a precision passer the last 7 or 8 years still would go downfield just enough when teams were exclusively looking to clamp down his short game. 

 

I will fully agree that Josh needs to improve his short and medium range game, he made significant progress last year but he still has a ways to go. But Josh regressed in his long range game last season. In 2018 Josh's long range game was solid, still not where it needed to be but he was at least solid in the long range. In 2019 I think he worked a lot on getting his touch in the shorter and mid-range game up by taking some heat off the ball but that also messed up his calibration on the long range game. 

 

I hope in 2020 he figures out how to polish up his short range game and recalibrate his long range game. It is that balance he needs to find in his game. 

[Mojo44]

9 hours ago, Mickey said:

So last night, after draining a healthy glass of absinthe, you know, the favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores, I had a vision. I was surrounded by a dense, emerald green fog that blinded me until a cool breeze gradually pushed the fog further and further away. As the fog receded, I could barely make out the silhouette  of two football players. Slowly, the helmeted figures emerged and there he was, Josh Allen, resplendent in his red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. But he wasn't alone. Standing next to him was none other than Sam Darnold who though less resplendent than Josh, was also sporting a red, white and vibrant blue Bills uniform. Sam explained that in 2020, the Jets, being the Jets, tanked and then took Lawrence No. 1 in the 2021 draft. Josh insisted that the Bills pick up the recently released Darnold to be his back-up. I asked Josh how we did in 2020 but before he could respond, he started yelling at me to stop drinking so much and to let our barking dog in before the neighbors went crazy.  His voice and appearance started changing until he was gone and all that was left was my now irate wife who was not looking at all resplendent.   

You know, we have absinthe in our liquor cabinet but we just use it as an additive for cocktails. I’m going to have to drink me a big glass and see what happens. 

[Gonzonzo]

9 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

The answer is they never had a season. The NFL used a lottery system to determine the draft order. The Bills ended up picking 32nd. Now go out and cut the lawn. (Just channeling irate wifey. Love the fin-de-siècle aesthetic references. I wrote a novel with a significant character named Absinthe.)

 

obviously the pats* get the 1st pick and select Lawrence...

[Jon in Pasadena]

10 hours ago, Mickey said:

 favored drink of suicidal artists and syphilitic whores

You gonna make us guess?

Edited April 3, 2020 by Jon in Pasadena

[njbuff]

The throw to Knox in NE proved to me that he can easily do this.

 

It's year 3 for him and hopefully the "do it all himself" moniker is out of his system.

[Pokebball]

17 minutes ago, njbuff said:

The throw to Knox in NE proved to me that he can easily do this.

 

It's year 3 for him and hopefully the "do it all himself" moniker is out of his system.

I hear ya, however that "do it all himself" attitude is the edge that Josh has too.  it was what made him pick up that fumbled snap in Dallas and fight through the line for the first down.  I don't know if I'm saying this the right way, but you know what I mean.

[Dukestreetking]

1 hour ago, Mojo44 said:

You know, we have absinthe in our liquor cabinet but we just use it as an additive for cocktails. I’m going to have to drink me a big glass and see what happens.

You'll wind up in the ether, getting yelled at by Mickey's wife.

[njbuff]

1 minute ago, Pokebball said:

I hear ya, however that "do it all himself" attitude is the edge that Josh has too.  it was what made him pick up that fumbled snap in Dallas and fight through the line for the first down.  I don't know if I'm saying this the right way, but you know what I mean.

 

It also led to the disastrous first half in the first NE game.

[rayray808]

while we are at it, install some screen plays and we can finally hear the end of the "300 yard game" narrative