Internally there’s some love for Tee Higgins

[Lurker]

27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Julio Jones had

1 catch for 21 yards in his bowl game his sophomore year

3 catches 49 yards in his bowl game his junior year

0 touchdowns.

 

not like it means anything

 

Maybe.   But Jones was a much more physical WR coming out, who used his physicality to routinely beat press coverage (he also ran a 4.39 40, which ain't chickenfeed at 220 pounds).   "Tough and highly competitive" were his signature descriptors.   Higgins is nowhere near that physical.

 

I worry about players who aren't the stick that swizzles their team in big games.    A first round pick should be more than a passenger in crunch time of their team's biggest games.   

 

Some guys (like Jones) can transcend that at the pro level.    Some guys can't, which is how I see Higgins.   I'll gladly defer to Beane, but as a simple fan in the stands, that's my impression of Tee so far...

 

Jones:    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/julio-jones-1/gamelog/

 

Higgins:    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tee-higgins-1/gamelog/

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Lurker

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Every single team passed on McLaurin, and Hardman caught 26 passes in the pass happy Chiefs offense. I'd hardly consider him someone we missed out on.

 

Not every team that passed on McLaurin was desperate (or should have been) for help at WR.

 

 Hardman got limited targets because of how ridiculously deep the Chiefs’ receiving corps is, but he averaged over 20 YPC.  He’s also a great kick returner and one of the fastest players in the league.  I expect him to blow up in 2020.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

The O line was the obvious priority, teams are built from the lines out, not the WRs in.  Beane has done a very good job. We went 10-6 and went to the playoffs on the quality of the FA acquisitions, and that draft, It was a successful draft and season.  Having a GM with a viable plan is helpful, now we have a super deep WR draft, and the coin to get the right free agents, perfect timing don’t you think? 

We are light years ahead of the stupid that went on for seventeen straight years. 
 

Go Bills!!!

 

 

The O-line is still half a mess and they still don't have a legit threat at WR and the GM is now, heading into his 3rd draft, finally concluding "we need to score more points".

 

The 2015 and 2016 Offenses were ranked 12th and 10th in points scored, with Taylor/McCoy/Watkins/Woods.  All were let go by McBeane.   The Dolphins O-line is awful, yet they scored only 5 fewer points...all year...than the Bills did--with Fitz and Rosen at QB.    The Bills took Morse off Andy Reid's hands for 11 million a year.  KC replaced him with a 7th round castoff from the redskins for 1 million a year (yet finally made it to and won the SB).  Dawkins may be the Bills best O-lineman....

 

Yes, it's a good WR draft, but we still have a GM who has, so far, put zero effort into drafting WR.  That's part of the reason you go from 10 to 30 (then 23) in points scored in a hurry.

 

 

 

 

[gobills404]

37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This is always a weak argument.  It should be obvious not every team has the same need with their 1st 2 picks in the draft.  Why even repeat this?

It really isn't. You're saying that knowing what we know now, Beane should've draft them at 38. I'm saying that knowing what we know now, they wouldn't have even been on the board at 38. It's a redundant argument.

[Augie]

It’s the time of the year for the smoke to be a blowin’! 

 

They may or may not love him, but our guys are too smart to tip their hand. 

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

It really isn't. You're saying that knowing what we know now, Beane should've draft them at 38. I'm saying that knowing what we know now, they wouldn't have even been on the board at 38. It's a redundant argument.

 
It’s not what I’m saying at all.   These were legitimate pucks taken in the second round by teams that needed them and scoured them appropriately.  

I’m saying that not every team that picked ahead of the Bills in the 1st or 2nd round needed a WR.  The Bills did...and passed. Si it makes no sense to say “31 teams passed on...”

 

[Don Otreply]

16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The O-line is still half a mess and they still don't have a legit threat at WR and the GM is now, heading into his 3rd draft, finally concluding "we need to score more points".

 

The 2015 and 2016 Offenses were ranked 12th and 10th in points scored, with Taylor/McCoy/Watkins/Woods.  All were let go by McBeane.   The Dolphins O-line is awful, yet they scored only 5 fewer points...all year...than the Bills did--with Fitz and Rosen at QB.    The Bills took Morse off Andy Reid's hands for 11 million a year.  KC replaced him with a 7th round castoff from the redskins for 1 million a year (yet finally made it to and won the SB).  Dawkins may be the Bills best O-lineman....

 

Yes, it's a good WR draft, but we still have a GM who has, so far, put zero effort into drafting WR.  That's part of the reason you go from 10 to 30 (then 23) in points scored in a hurry.

 

 

 

 

It appears you  prefer to complaining about a team that had by all measures a successful season, and that was more successful than you thought they would be. Enjoy that ?  

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited March 8, 2020 by Don Otreply

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It appears you  prefer to complaining about a team that had by all measures a successful season, and that was more successful than you thought they would be. Enjoy that ?  

 

Go Bills!!!

You could miss-characterize it that way I guess.  Not sure how it advances your point other than as an exit.

 

Peace
 

 

[par73]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

88 yards and this monstrosity of a call below that cost him a second td and another 40-50 yards. 
 

 

This stuff is on the internet.    You can’t just make things up.  
 

https://www.12up.com/posts/clemson-tee-higgins-pass-interference-lsu-video-01dyh69hq84a

Ok-- he had one big running play, and a catch that didn't count.  His upper body strength is sub-par, and many feel he will not stand up to the abuse he will take from NFL defensive backs. Plus, I hear he needs a lot of rest.

[frostbitmic]

6 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

looks like slants, screens, outs, and contested fly patterns

He scores all of these TD's but can he get you a first down ?

[gobills404]

29 minutes ago, mannc said:

Not every team that passed on McLaurin was desperate (or should have been) for help at WR.

 

 Hardman got limited targets because of how ridiculously deep the Chiefs’ receiving corps is, but he averaged over 20 YPC.  He’s also a great kick returner and one of the fastest players in the league.  I expect him to blow up in 2020.

The Bills weren't "desperate" either. If I recall correctly, everyone seemed pretty optimistic about a starting WR trio Brown, Beasley, and Foster with Zay, McKenzie, Roberts, and potentially Duke as depth heading into the draft.

16 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It appears you  prefer to complaining about a team that had by all measures a successful season, and that was more successful than you thought they would be. Enjoy that ?  

 

Go Bills!!!

There will always be people that just always need something to complain about unfortunately.

[Rc2catch]

All this bickering over draft stock and slots. 
Outside the top 3-5 players every year it’s all a crap shoot. 
Some of your best players in the league are found in rounds 2-5. 
Golloday is on his way to being a top receiver in this league and he was considered a weak prospect projected in the 4th round or later. 
We are not scouts, we don’t have the inside intel the pros do. We don’t know these athletes or talk to them or their coaches. Not sure why there is so much bickering over who knows what best when none of us know Jack squat in the big picture of things. 
We can read into things all we want but it’s possible they build a super ground and pound offense again and hope to get lucky in the 3-5 round range on a receiver. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see them target more offensive linemen in free agency and another back in free agency and the draft and try to run it down everyone’s throats every week. Along with more defensive personnel to keep the defense playing at an elite level. I look forward to the yearly blowups for free agency and the draft, I try but can never understand the fascination with arguing over who should be drafted where and how much someone is worth to a team. This has to be the most frugal fan base in the league with salary cap money. Ralph has really taught us to count those pennies and get maximum value at every position. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

Maybe.   But Jones was a much more physical WR coming out, who used his physicality to routinely beat press coverage (he also ran a 4.39 40, which ain't chickenfeed at 220 pounds).   "Tough and highly competitive" were his signature descriptors.   Higgins is nowhere near that physical.

 

I worry about players who aren't the stick that swizzles their team in big games.    A first round pick should be more than a passenger in crunch time of their team's biggest games.   

 

Some guys (like Jones) can transcend that at the pro level.    Some guys can't, which is how I see Higgins.   I'll gladly defer to Beane, but as a simple fan in the stands, that's my impression of Tee so far...

 

Jones:    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/julio-jones-1/gamelog/

 

Higgins:    https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/tee-higgins-1/gamelog/

 

 

Lol.....that’s has nothing to do with what I was replying to.  There really is no, “yeah, but”

[Don Otreply]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You could miss-characterize it that way I guess.  Not sure how it advances your point other than as an exit.

 

Peace
 

 

Peace.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Putin]

5 hours ago, par73 said:

He was invisible against Ohio St., LSU (teams that were really physical with him) and the combine (needed to rest). My least favorite Day 1 prospect.

There’s at least 3 more WR’s that I would prefer over Higgins ( on day 2 )

No way he gets drafted in the first round , 

[BobChalmers]

7 hours ago, DJB said:

Higgins reminds me a bit of Mike William's. A jump ball guy with great hands. 

 

Reminds me of Mike Williams too - bust 1-st rounder who ended up in the CFL after a few years...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Williams_(wide_receiver,_born_1984)

 

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

Reminds me of Laquon Treadwell.

 

Not a fan.

[T master]

I'm hoping they go with Chase Claypool from ND & he will more than likely bo there when the Bills pick comes around then they can get a good edge rusher in the second round like the guy out of Penn St. Gross Mato i'd say that would be a good get 1st & 2nd round !! 

 

I've heard that Higgins had a couple of issues & isn't as versatile where Claypool i guess they lined up all over the place & would be more versatile in the scheme .

[TigerJ]

7 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Reminds me of Laquon Treadwell.

 

Not a fan.

Not me.  Higgins is significantly taller (a couple inches) but Treadwell is heavier.  IMO Treadwell and AJ Brown are a lot more alike.  Treadwell just hasn't been able to get his career untracked.  Higgins has that huge catch radius only a tall receiver can have, but he's shown some athleticism on the field.  On the other hand, he's played at just a little over 200 lbs.  You'd think at that height he could carry another 20+ lbs without losing speed and agility.  I think he could be more of a Mike Evans type receiver myself.  Evans was about 10 lbs heavier than Higgins coming out of college, but since then he's added another 12-13 lbs of muscle.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

WR's are very tough to predict.

[Logic]

49 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

Reminds me of Laquon Treadwell.

 

Not a fan.

Treadwell averaged 11.8 yds/rec in his college career.
Higgins averaged. 18.1 yds/rec in his college career.

That's a significant difference.

I didn't watch Treadwell in college, so I can't say with certainty that they aren't alike. A quick look at the above numbers certainly suggests that Higgins is more explosive, though.

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Lol.....that’s has nothing to do with what I was replying to.  There really is no, “yeah, but”

 

Sorry.   I'm a bit rusty in reading gibberish...

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Lurker

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I like Lamb, Ruggs, Jeudy, Aiyuk, Shenault, Jefferson, Mims, Reagor more than Higgins but I’m fine if he’s the guy. 
 

Just hoping it’s in the 2nd and not at 22. If we end up with Epenesa and Higgins with our first two picks I’d be elated. Two flawed prospects but guys who make us better on Day 1.

[KOKBILLS]

9 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

I see the lovechild of Mike Evans and Jarvis Landry.      Get er done 

 

I don't necessarily agree...But I love the quote! ?

[Locomark]

Watching his stride he reminds me of James Lofton. Big long strides but moving quickly. I like his ability to adjust to the ball in the air. He makes that young QB look good on a lot of underthrown or poorly thrown balls. 

[KOKBILLS]

I'm waiting for that 40 to solidify my overall take on Tee...I will say this much though...I'm a bit surprised at some of the Scouting I've heard already from people I definitely respect concerning Higgins...While I absolutely agree Ruggs, Jeudy, and Lamb are the top 3 without question...I'm not yet convinced Higgins is out of the conversation as the #4 guy...During the season I watched Clemson almost every week (I live in NC), and to me Tee Higgins looked like a 1st Round NFL WR all day...I'm not saying high 1st Round...But 1st Round nonetheless...He's not perfect...he needs work...But at times he literally jumps off the screen to me...I think he's an alpha on the field, and the fact that he held off Justyn Ross to be the #1 guy at Clemson is pretty impressive if you understand how good Ross is...And there is no doubt the Bills do not have anyone like Higgins currently on the Roster...

 

No prospect is a finished product coming in...I think this was a HUGE issue for some scouts last year concerning DK Metcalf...A player I was absolutely convinced was a Top 10 prospect...But with every prospect there is that projection...That unknown...The kid should be given the same lead-way to improve (if he has the coaching and drive) as any other prospect WR IMHO...He was a semi-dominate talent in College, and a 5 star recruit coming out of HS...No reason to believe if he wants it bad enough he can't improve his strength, technique, route-running, and effectiveness against physical CB's in the NFL...He's a talented athlete, with crazy length, and what looks to be enough speed to get some separation...We'll see what he times, but he says he's going to run in the 4.4's...Which would really surprise (me) a bit...We'll see...

 

I'm not saying Tee has the drive needed (I did feel like that was HUGE for Metcalf last year...I never doubted his drive to be the the best)...I don't know that about Tee...Not saying he doesn't...Just saying I don't know..That's what the interviews are for...But I'm not going to beat him up that much about the Combine...It's a business decision and he did not feel ready...If he runs that 4.4 at Clemson next Thursday it's going to look like a smart decision...I do think he'll get the support he needs in Buffalo if they take him...He seems like a good enough kid...A lot also depends on what Dabo says...If he gets a real strong endorsement from the Clemson staff it will matter... ?

Edited March 8, 2020 by KOKBILLS

[GunnerBill]

I have said it and I will keep saying it. After the top 3 the wide receiver in this draft most likely to end up as a true #1 NFL receiver is Tee Higgins. If he is the pick at #22 I will be fine with it. 

 

First this board went loopy for Shenault and I said "meh day 2 pick" now as the process has gone on and the draft media have caught up with where teams are the consensus is "yea Shenault probably goes day 2." Now the board has gone a little over the top on Justin Jefferson who I do think probably goes day 1 but later half of it and to a team looking for a number 2 receiver. He is safer than Higgins in my opinion but with less upside.  

 

I am sticking where I started. If the top 3 are gone and it is going to be a wideout at #22 then it should be Tee Higgins. 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Captain Murica said:

I'm not big on Higgins but they said the same thing about Metcalf being a one trick pony. That worked out well for Seattle. If they do choose Higgins hopefully it’s one hell of a trick. 

 

I have him with exactly the same grade as I had on DK at the moment. He isn't as strong or as physical as DK but he does have better understanding of route concepts and the subtleties of the position and has been used with more variety in college so comes a little more rounded. But they both to me are guys who can come in day one and be effective downfield targets. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

I love WR’s that can separate. Higgins really doesn’t do that. 

[BillsFan2313]

20 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

can you point out that one trick for me ? 
 

is it making all the plays ?  
 

 

 

Catching touchdowns. Horrible one trick 

Edited March 8, 2020 by BillsFan2313

[bigK14094]

21 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

The basketball background is attractive. 

Still....if he runs a 4.6 or worse I'm taking a shot at somebody with more speed and explosiveness. 

Sounds like Stevie Johnson v2.0

[BillsFan17]

Higgins is does not have the route tree, nor the ability to really separate well. I love Higgins for his hands and his ability to win contested catches, but hes behind a handful of more well rounded WRs in this class.

 

I also have to agree with Marino to an extent, that Higgins doesn't really fit the Bills offense well, especially with Allen's erratic deep accuracy.

 

I wouldn't be upset if they snagged Higgins in the second, but at 22, that would be a hard pill to swallow.

10 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

Sounds like Stevie Johnson v2.0

Not remotely close, Stevie had great short area quickness and was a very slippery player underneath. That is is the exact opposite of Higgins.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, BillsFan17 said:

I also have to agree with Marino to an extent, that Higgins doesn't really fit the Bills offense well, especially with Allen's erratic deep accuracy.

 

I tend to agree with Joe but not on this. Higgins strength is routes along the sideline, especially back shoulders. That's one of Allen's favorite spots to throw. Imagine Higgins running all of the plays that Duke Williams ran against Houston. He's not a speed vertical receiver, that's really what Allen has struggled with up to this point.

[Logic]

The funny thing about draft season is that a bunch of people who've never watched these college players in their life suddenly become experts on them. Everyone watches a few Youtube highlight clips, reads a few scouting reports, and suddenly knows everything there is to know about a player and becomes very passionate about either defending or deriding him.

I include myself in this. 

One minute I don't know a damn thing about a wide receiver prospect, the next minute I've spent a half hour watching clips and reading about him, and suddenly I've got a passionate position.

"Can't separate".
"Doesn't run the whole route tree".
"I'll be FURIOUS if they take Higgins at 22!". 
"I'll be THRILLED if they take Higgins at 22!".

Bunch of folks who know nothing, pretending like they know everything. 

God, I love draft season.

[Motorin']

14 hours ago, Locomark said:

Watching his stride he reminds me of James Lofton. Big long strides but moving quickly. I like his ability to adjust to the ball in the air. He makes that young QB look good on a lot of underthrown or poorly thrown balls. 

Lawrence plays the most like Allen as anybody I've seen. Very similar qualities. 

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I tend to agree with Joe but not on this. Higgins strength is routes along the sideline, especially back shoulders. That's one of Allen's favorite spots to throw. Imagine Higgins running all of the plays that Duke Williams ran against Houston. He's not a speed vertical receiver, that's really what Allen has struggled with up to this point.

He does seems to run really crisp routes that create a ton of separation and has great hands and catch radius. 

[BillsFan17]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I tend to agree with Joe but not on this. Higgins strength is routes along the sideline, especially back shoulders. That's one of Allen's favorite spots to throw. Imagine Higgins running all of the plays that Duke Williams ran against Houston. He's not a speed vertical receiver, that's really what Allen has struggled with up to this point.

That's fair, but Higgins doesn't necessarily have that top end speed that's going to help him gain separation on these routes. NFL corners are vastly different than NFL corners.

 

I mean, against OSU, LSU, and FSU higgins managed combined 120 some odd yards and zero TDs. 

[HappyDays]

45 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

That's fair, but Higgins doesn't necessarily have that top end speed that's going to help him gain separation on these routes. NFL corners are vastly different than NFL corners.

 

I mean, against OSU, LSU, and FSU higgins managed combined 120 some odd yards and zero TDs. 

 

I don't love Higgins as a prospect, I just think of all the 2nd tier guys he fits our offense best. All the other guys mentioned in that range - Hamler, Reagor, Aiyuk, Jefferson etc. - I see as very similar to what Brown or Beasley already do for us. I'm looking for something our offense doesn't already have. IMO Higgins offers a missing skill set that the other guys don't. He's finally a true outside size receiver with a big catch radius. Allen would love him.

 

FWIW I also think Shenault offers a different type of skill set and would immediately be a massive upgrade for McKenzie's role. But his injury concerns are very real and I think he might be available at our pick in round 2. If we aren't planning on trading up I would be happy with Higgins and Shenault as our top 2 picks.

[GunnerBill]

56 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

That's fair, but Higgins doesn't necessarily have that top end speed that's going to help him gain separation on these routes. NFL corners are vastly different than NFL corners.

 

I mean, against OSU, LSU, and FSU higgins managed combined 120 some odd yards and zero TDs. 

 

He does cut pretty well though. I like his feet for a big guy he can quick step pretty well. I think the separation thing is overblown. I mean he isn't Antonio Brown (pre meltdown) but I see plenty of plays on Higgins's tape where he is able to generate sufficient even against better players. 

[Logic]

26 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't love Higgins as a prospect, I just think of all the 2nd tier guys he fits our offense best. All the other guys mentioned in that range - Hamler, Reagor, Aiyuk, Jefferson etc. - I see as very similar to what Brown or Beasley already do for us. I'm looking for something our offense doesn't already have. IMO Higgins offers a missing skill set that the other guys don't. He's finally a true outside size receiver with a big catch radius. Allen would love him.

 

FWIW I also think Shenault offers a different type of skill set and would immediately be a massive upgrade for McKenzie's role. But his injury concerns are very real and I think he might be available at our pick in round 2. If we aren't planning on trading up I would be happy with Higgins and Shenault as our top 2 picks.

I agree with this so much. The more I watch of Higgins and the more I consider what our offense needs, the more this makes sense.

People can talk about what Higgins can or can't do until they're blue in the face, but the fact is this: He is pretty much unmatched in this draft class in terms of making contested catches, snagging back shoulder throws, and making circus sideline catches. While Josh Allen isn't great at leading his receivers on deep balls, he is QUITE good at back shoulder throws. We also know how much he likes to roll out to his right and throw sideline lasers. Furthermore, when Allen goes into "run around and improvise" mode, I want a guy that he can just chuck it up to -- even if he's well covered -- and have a good shot at completing the pass. A bailout guy. Higgins looks like that guy, and then some.

Wise football people have recently said "don't tell me what a guy CAN'T do, tell me what he CAN do and I'll find a use for those skills". Well...what Higgins CAN do seems to match up incredibly well with some of Allen's strengths and with what the Bills offense is currently in need of.



 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Logic

[John from Riverside]

he just makes sense