Will we pay Poyer or won't we?

[transplantbillsfan]

He's clearly outperformed his contract and deserves more money.

 

That's a given.

 

But...

 

He has one year left on his deal, and in the next few years ya gotta figure big money (relative to position) is about to go to White, Dawkins, Milano, Edmunds, Allen... (possibly???) Shaq?

 

And I know... Poyer is great... especially at the price we got him. But while he's a McDermott guy...

 

He might not be a Beane guy.

 

And his replacement would appear to be on the roster already in Jaquan Johnson, who flashed serious potential his rookie year. And Beane drafted him.

 

Would Johnson even get the chance to consistently see the field before the end of his rookie contract expires? At what position? Much like Darryl Johnson, he seems like a guy who will deserve serious playing time in the next couple years.

 

Who knows though? We also have plenty of CAP space over the next couple years and a Head Coach who can get pretty creative with his defensive personnel.

 

What do you think?

Edited January 18, 2020 by transplantbillsfan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

He's clearly outperformed his contract and deserves more money.

 

That's a given.

 

But...

 

He has one year left on his deal, and in the next few years ya gotta figure big money (relative to position) is about to go to White, Dawkins, Milano, Edmunds, Allen... (possibly???) Shaq?

 

And I know... Poyer is great... especially at the price we got him. But while he's a McDermott guy...

 

He might not be a Beane guy.

 

And his replacement would appear to be on the roster already in Jaquan Johnson, who flashed serious potential his rookie year. And Beane drafted him.

 

Would Johnson even get the chance to consistently see the field before the end of his rookie contract expires? At what position? Much like Darryl Johnson, he seems like a guy who will deserve serious playing time in the next couple years.

 

Who knows though? We also have plenty of CAP space over the next couple years and a Head Coach who can get pretty creative with his defensive personnel.

 

What do you think?

 

It's a good question.  I don't know if Beane wants to create a precedent of re-negotiating contracts that early.  I wouldn't think it would be a priority - get through FA and the draft and see where we are, cap-wise

[Happy]

I think Beane extends Poyer.  I don't think McD wants to break up the safety duo of Poyer and Hyde.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

9 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I think Beane extends Poyer.  I don't think McD wants to break up the safety duo of Poyer and Hyde.

agreed. I felt Beane was alluding  to Poyer when he talked in his post-season presser about extending guys who outperformed their contracts. 

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

I think Beane extends Poyer.  I don't think McD wants to break up the safety duo of Poyer and Hyde.

 

Agree, I think the established rapport and the interchangeability have value. I think they pay the man. 

 

(Having said that, I don’t know the details of his current deal, market comps, etc. so that might be worth adding here to better evaluate the options.) 

[ToGoGo]

You don't mess with chemistry. Would be an epic blunder to let Poyer go. 

[BubbaT]

My thinking if they are going to do it they need to do so before the season starts or Poyer will just play out his deal and hit the market. I would think we'd know by the end of August.

Edited January 18, 2020 by BubbaT

[Phil The Thrill]

I really don’t think it happens.  At least, I don’t think that they give Poyer a huge deal.  I can see tbem

resign him to a modest deal but not one that put him toward the top of safeties in the league.

 

The reason why is because the team is very bullish on Jacquan Johnson.  At some point, they are going to want to see what he can do on the field in relevant game situations.  He has 3 more years left on a rookie contract and possibly a higher ceiling than Poyer.  If they extend Poyer than Johnson likely won’t see the field much.

 

[Gugny]

Can you please add one more option:  "Maybe not, but it definitely wouldn't surprise me if we did."

 

This way, the resident "experts," can vote, then brag about how they were "right."  Of course, prefaced by saying, "I don't mean to brag, but ..."

[Success]

I see a little bit of Belichickian influence in the way things are done now.

 

BB would probably let him get away - just before he shows any decline.

 

Hope they keep him, though.  He’s been so important to building this team’s identity.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

agreed. I felt Beane was alluding  to Poyer when he talked in his post-season presser about extending guys who outperformed their contracts. 

 

I didn't catch that.  good to hear - though it's tricky when you extend a guy who is still under contract if you give him too big a step, the rest of the team looks at their paper and says "urr urr where's mine?"

 

30 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I really don’t think it happens.  At least, I don’t think that they give Poyer a huge deal.  I can see tbem

resign him to a modest deal but not one that put him toward the top of safeties in the league.

 

I agree with this, too, which is where what Poyer wants comes into it.  He deserves to be paid closer to Hyde.  But if they give him a long huge deal, Hyde and Tre White are going to be going "Hey Now!"  If Poyer will accept something like Eric Reid or Tashaun Gipson money, I think Beane would do that.  That would be 3 years, $22-23M, $10-11M fully guaranteed.  He'd be paid as a top 15 player at his position.

 

If he wants to be paid like Tyrann Mathieu, Beane will say "hey now, you're still under contract this next season you know"  and see what flies.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I didn't catch that.  good to hear - though it's tricky when you extend a guy who is still under contract if you give him too big a step, the rest of the team looks at their paper and says "urr urr where's mine?"

 

 

I agree with this, too, which is where what Poyer wants comes into it.  He deserves to be paid closer to Hyde.  But if they give him a long huge deal, Hyde and Tre White are going to be going "Hey Now!"  If Poyer will accept something like Eric Reid or Tashaun Gipson money, I think Beane would do that.  That would be 3 years, $22-23M, $10-11M fully guaranteed.  He'd be paid as a top 15 player at his position.

 

If he wants to be paid like Tyrann Mathieu, Beane will say "hey now, you're still under contract this next season you know"  and see what flies.

 

 

Beane would say: "maybe if you played like Tyrann Mathieu...."

[below]

I think he will sign a reasonable 3 year extension, similar to how they took care of Hughes. Seems to be an important leader on the D. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Can you please add one more option:  "Maybe not, but it definitely wouldn't surprise me if we did."

 

This way, the resident "experts," can vote, then brag about how they were "right."  Of course, prefaced by saying, "I don't mean to brag, but ..."

 

Yeah... I can't imagine a single sane Bills fan who would be shocked at a lucrative Poyer contract.

 

Nonetheless, it's largely Jaquan Johnson that has me thinking Poyer is suddenly expendable.

 

You don't keep playmakers on the bench, and Johnson is already looking like a playmaker. I wonder if McDermott finds a way to get him on the field with Hyde and Poyer somehow next year.

[Penfield45]

hope not

 

we can draft a safety in the 3rd round or bring in another lowkey FA to fill his spot. Poyer plays well bc of Mc'd system, he really isn't all that talented like 

 

Hyde is more important 

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Success said:

I see a little bit of Belichickian influence in the way things are done now.

 

BB would probably let him get away - just before he shows any decline.

 

Hope they keep him, though.  He’s been so important to building this team’s identity.

 

To me it's less that and more about what's beneath him.

 

Mcbeane have Jaquan Johnson for 3 more years dirt cheap.

 

And honestly... he looks already like he could be at least as good as Poyer in a year or 2. But even if he's not quite as good, but is still relatively good... I'm sure OBD will be thinking about the other player(s) they could sign/resign/extend.

Edited January 18, 2020 by transplantbillsfan

[GunnerBill]

I am all but certain the Bills are going to pay Poyer. If they don't he is going to hold out. 

[ILBillsfan]

I hope the Bills do not he needs a rebound season

[MAJBobby]

Only going to pay One the over 10M AAV contract. So if it is Poyer then Hyde isn’t getting another contract with us unless he takes a huge discount because he is 32 at the time of his next contract. 
 

I personally am not sure they pay either with how Safety Friendly McD system is. 

[JoPoy88]

I love Poyer but it’s all going to come down to his demands. I want him back but if he’s going to ask for ridiculous free safety money when we (assumedly) want to keep Hyde and especially Tre, then things for Jordan are going to realistic real quick. Can’t replace Tre. Very hard to replace Hyde in my opinion. But replacing Poyer? That’s not insurmountable.

50 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

I hope the Bills do not he needs a rebound season

silliness. He’s been close to the best at his job for 3 seasons. His tackling looked lazy at times this year for sure. But to say he failed and needs a “rebound” season is preposterous.

[Doc Brown]

Beane rewarding Poyer will send a message to the team that if you consistently produce for us you'll be rewarded.  I see an extension similar to Hughes at the beginning of last year.  Maybe a three year extension to lock him up for four seasons until he's 33 with a low dead cap amount his final year.  Something like a three year extension for 34 million (24 million guaranteed).  That puts him at about 9 million a year.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Doc Brown

[Billsfansinceday1]

Extending Poyer would give a great signal that the Bills value players who have contributed to our improvement.  I hope Poyer is a Bill until he retires.

[Magox]

It’s a conundrum but one that they welcome.   Jaquan showed great potential through training camp and was pretty much shelved for the year and when given a chance against the JEts he played at a very high level.

 

My guess is that they will get him out on the field a lot more this upcoming year and based off of how they both play they will reserve that decision until as long as they can.

 

Poyer has been really good for the Bills but jaquan may be a better natural tackler and that ultimately may make a difference.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I waffled on this one. Leaning yes.

[ProcessTruster]

I would pay DBs before I paid LBs any day.  Passing league.   Any I would pay offense before I paid defense.   Without great offense , you can't win anything.   Anything that improves the pass or ability to stop the pass gets paid first.   WRs, DBs , QBs, LT, Edge, all get paid first, IMHO.  When they change the rules to limit the passing game , then my mind will change. 

[billsfan89]

I think considering the premium safeties have in the modern NFL I think they pay Poyer. I also think it won't take crazy or unreasonable money to resign him. I think a deal between 7-8 million AAV suits him and makes him affordable.

[Buddo]

I believe they will pay Poyer. I also think that it won't be huge money, but will have a substantial portion guaranteed, which will reflect the fact he has out-performed his current deal.

 

At least that would be the way I'd do it.  Say for example (and to be clear, it's an example, not what I think he should get or will get), an extension for 3 years and $20m, with $15m guaranteed. Where ordinarily you would have done the deal with only $10m guaranteed.

[Cripple Creek]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I am all but certain the Bills are going to pay Poyer. If they don't he is going to hold out. 

What has led you to this Against the Process almost certainty? 

 

What leads you to believe that Poyer is stupid enough to believe that a hold out would benefit him in the long run?

[papazoid]

not so sure

 

PRO: has totally outplayed his current team friendly deal.

 

CON: i think he took a step back back in 2019. absolute stud in 2018

 

CONCLUSION: 2020 is a show me year. they only extend if another team friendly deal. beane will not overpay.

[BuffaloRebound]

He played like he didn’t want to get hurt towards end of season.  Football is a violent game.  Once you lose that edge that borders on being crazy, it’s time to move on.  If you can’t give up your body in a playoff game, that says it all.  

[Niagara Dude]

9 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

He's clearly outperformed his contract and deserves more money.

 

That's a given.

 

But...

 

He has one year left on his deal, and in the next few years ya gotta figure big money (relative to position) is about to go to White, Dawkins, Milano, Edmunds, Allen... (possibly???) Shaq?

 

And I know... Poyer is great... especially at the price we got him. But while he's a McDermott guy...

 

He might not be a Beane guy.

 

And his replacement would appear to be on the roster already in Jaquan Johnson, who flashed serious potential his rookie year. And Beane drafted him.

 

Would Johnson even get the chance to consistently see the field before the end of his rookie contract expires? At what position? Much like Darryl Johnson, he seems like a guy who will deserve serious playing time in the next couple years.

 

Who knows though? We also have plenty of CAP space over the next couple years and a Head Coach who can get pretty creative with his defensive personnel.

 

What do you think?

Within reason yes,  but he is no elite player. You don't pay him more than 8 million per season which is what he deserves

 

[Beast]

I think we will move on from Poyer but retain Hyde.

[BarleyNY]

Poyer and Hyde have both outperformed their contracts.  Hyde has 2 seasons left, Poyer has 1.  I can see them both getting extensions.  Hyde has been much better than Poyer (who has been very good) so they really can’t give Poyer a raise to more than what Hyde is making without causing problems.  This could be tricky. 

[eball]

Yes, Poyer is going to get a raise.  Again, if you have been paying attention to Beane and McD they have said time and time again they want to sign and keep players who fit the culture and have performed.  This sends a message not only to that player but to the rest of the organization (and league) that the Buffalo Bills are a professional franchise that takes care of its own.

 

Poyer is still in the prime of his career.  He will get paid by Buffalo.

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

What has led you to this Against the Process almost certainty? 

 

What leads you to believe that Poyer is stupid enough to believe that a hold out would benefit him in the long run?

 

I know for a fact he nearly held out last year. Hyde and others talked him out of it. There are plenty of other posters here who were privy to the same information if you don't believe me. 

 

I suppose I don't see it as against the process in the way you do. I think the process includes paying guys who come here as under the radar players, knuckle down, don't miss time with injuries, are leaders on the field and outperform their contracts. To my mind that is exactly the sort of guy the Bills want to pay as part of the process. 

Just now, eball said:

Yes, Poyer is going to get a raise.  Again, if you have been paying attention to Beane and McD they have said time and time again they want to sign and keep players who fit the culture and have performed.  This sends a message not only to that player but to the rest of the organization (and league) that the Buffalo Bills are a professional franchise that takes care of its own.

 

Poyer is still in the prime of his career.  He will get paid by Buffalo.

 

Exactly how I see it eball. This totally fits with the process and the culture they want to build. 

[eball]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Exactly how I see it eball. This totally fits with the process and the culture they want to build. 

 

There is a rumor that Poyer almost held out last summer.  I don't know this to be true, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if Beane got word through to Poyer/his agent that he just needed to be patient for a year.

[CEN-CAL17]

A 2 year extension should be good, bring in a high draft pick next year or the year after for mentoring 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

There is a rumor that Poyer almost held out last summer.  I don't know this to be true, but it would not surprise me in the slightest if Beane got word through to Poyer/his agent that he just needed to be patient for a year.

 

It is true. 

[Dirtyd415]

13 minutes ago, eball said:

Yes, Poyer is going to get a raise.  Again, if you have been paying attention to Beane and McD they have said time and time again they want to sign and keep players who fit the culture and have performed.  This sends a message not only to that player but to the rest of the organization (and league) that the Buffalo Bills are a professional franchise that takes care of its own.

 

Poyer is still in the prime of his career.  He will get paid by Buffalo.

Is having to be convinced by Hyde and others to not hold out part of the process/culture?  Also, past performance is not a guarantee of future results, and this was his worst season as a Bill with his play diminishing as the season progressed.  If we extend him great, if he walks after next season so be it.  I trust our GM to not overpay.

[Cripple Creek]

35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know for a fact he nearly held out last year. Hyde and others talked him out of it. There are plenty of other posters here who were privy to the same information if you don't believe me. 

 

I suppose I don't see it as against the process in the way you do. I think the process includes paying guys who come here as under the radar players, knuckle down, don't miss time with injuries, are leaders on the field and outperform their contracts. To my mind that is exactly the sort of guy the Bills want to pay as part of the process. 

 

 

So, he didn't last year & if you are to be believed, it is because he thought better of it and changed his mind. Yet, it is an almost certainty that he will hold out this year.  Your powers of conjecture are amazing.