MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, starrymessenger said: Is that necessarily so even if Murphy is not with the team in 2020 (and Star and Hughes are gone in 2021)? Replacing an underperforming pass rushing DE with a better one is a good idea IMO esp if you don't have to sacrifice other pieces that are good fits. Having said that I'm not in favour of grossly overpaying anyone. I think so. Eventually you will want your draft picks taking spots not UFA. And I really think Bills want Johnson growing to take over for Trent. Can only put so much cap into the rotational DL Edited January 11, 2020 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, frostbitmic said: Shaq was drafted injured and did nothing his rookie year. He got a little better playing in his second year after playing a bit. He improved last year and improved again this year. Was it just money or is he starting to figure things out ? Former 1st rd draft pick developing and getting better every year. The typical Fan thing to do is get rid of him cause the $$$$ they are NOT paying, even though the Bills have plenty of cap and need him. Dareus really F'd up a lot of people heads around here. Edited January 11, 2020 by Real McNasty 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) If Lawson was a FA from another team, would Beane and McDermott pursue him? Edited January 11, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: If Lawson was a FA from another team, would Beane and McDermott pursue him? Most likely and the posters saying let him go would be saying to sign him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: If Lawson was a FA from another team, would Beane and McDermott pursue him? For proper value I think they would 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: If Lawson was a FA from another team, would Beane and McDermott pursue him? I don’t know, tbh. There’s players like Robbie Anderson out there that their fanbase is split on retaining. I don’t know if I want that guy. Probably gets paid more than his true value due to being above average at a premium position. Seems kind of similar to our Shaq/Phillips situation (aside from those two guys not being awful off the field) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Is that meant as a shot at the Bills?? I don't know that it was a shot, but it was obviously a message. "Don't expect a hometown discount." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Even Chris Kelsey had a 5.5 sack year and he had 60 tackles. Sorry but overpaying this guy would be a major mistake. 7.5 per is my max or he can walk. If he signs that then I am dumping Murphy. If he doesn’t sign we keep Murphy 1 more year. We are gonna draft a DE and we have a ton of cap room to get a premier DE to replace Jerry anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) I don't think that's the right attitude, so I am not really expecting him back. I'm all for a player or anyone for that matter trying to get every bit they can but this isn't the way to go about it IMO. It makes it seem like that is all he cares about. Edited January 11, 2020 by Scott7975 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 37 minutes ago, Locomark said: Even Chris Kelsey had a 5.5 sack year and he had 60 tackles. Sorry but overpaying this guy would be a major mistake. 7.5 per is my max or he can walk. If he signs that then I am dumping Murphy. If he doesn’t sign we keep Murphy 1 more year. We are gonna draft a DE and we have a ton of cap room to get a premier DE to replace Jerry anyway. You realize that Murphy is scheduled to make just under $9M this year? Shaq is worth that, and at the least, is worth more than Murphy. Signing Shaq for $9M AAV and dumping Murphy sounds like the right move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Does he wanna be here? is he a process guy? i think he’s the only player on the team from before Beane? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Buh Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBills Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 58 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: You realize that Murphy is scheduled to make just under $9M this year? Shaq is worth that, and at the least, is worth more than Murphy. Signing Shaq for $9M AAV and dumping Murphy sounds like the right move. Guarantee you Shaq's agent is telling him he's worth 15 million a year. He's not worth more than 10 million a year. Shaq is a goner. I would rather they use that money to sign Jordan Phillips anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, WildBills said: Guarantee you Shaq's agent is telling him he's worth 15 million a year. He's not worth more than 10 million a year. Shaq is a goner. I would rather they use that money to sign Jordan Phillips anyway. If Shaq wants more than $10M, I agree he's gone. Jordan Phillips is another guy who, if he overvalues himself, he's gone. I'd like to re-sign both if possible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 He's a very underrated player on the rise. Sign him. Cut Murphy. Add another young DE. 2 hours ago, Locomark said: Even Chris Kelsey had a 5.5 sack year and he had 60 tackles. Sorry but overpaying this guy would be a major mistake. 7.5 per is my max or he can walk. If he signs that then I am dumping Murphy. If he doesn’t sign we keep Murphy 1 more year. We are gonna draft a DE and we have a ton of cap room to get a premier DE to replace Jerry anyway. Shaq plays less than half the snaps, kelsay seemed to never leave the field. Shaq needs a bigger role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egd Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, starrymessenger said: Havent seen much of Yannick but I've seen a fair bit of Judon over the years. I like Judon. He sees the field a lot and the Ravens tend to lean on him. He gets lots of tackles and 9.5 sacks is nothing to sneer at. Not clear to me though that he would'nt be more part of a rotation just based on what all McD seems to do with line players. So his totals would likely go down, including possibly even his sack total. Same could be said about Yannick who also gets lots of snaps, more than he might get here. And how much better is 9.5 or 8 sacks over 6.5 (I know 3 and 1.5 respectively). Judon is right now a better player than Shaq but probably not that much better. Lawson is also trending up IMO and could continue to improve. He should be entering his prime. If a good one falls to them in the draft I would expect the Bills to pull the trigger on a prospect. If so, I believe they would try to sign Shaq. Judon is not much better than Shaq??? Baltimore said they will franchise him if they can't reach a deal: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-to-use-franchise-tag-on-matt-judon-if-a-long-term-deal-cant-be-worked-out/ Would Buffalo franchise Shaq? Edited January 11, 2020 by egd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 He should get some but nothing outrageous, need to see if played hard because it was a contract year or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 don’t know if I’d pay him after the ***** song choice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 While the mantra around OBD is 'continuous improvement', there's also another adage called 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. For that reason I'd like both Shaq and Phillips re-signed. Much like the O-Line, the 'continuous improvement' can be had by keeping guys together. Fwiw, especially as he's already indicated he wants to stay, I'd look to get Spain re-signed also. My eyes told me that Lawson comfortably out-performed Murphy, and Murphy actually played better than the year before. The Athletic grades Lawson out over the season as the 11th best Bills player - and that is out of the whole roster. While those grades are to a degree subjective, it does confirm largely what my eyes told me, and that was that Lawson was one of the better Bills over the whole season, and on a team that performed well overall, that's saying something. He graded out well above Murphy. I'd also say that I believe Lawson could comfortably handle more snaps, and he started getting them through the season, simply due to his superior play. Lawson has become a good solid performer, and while not elite, you will be hard pushed to replace his performance, if you let him walk. Much will depend on what other offers he gets, tbh, but I can see him get above what Murphy gets, with no trouble at all, and tbh I'd pay him in the region of $9 million per, if pushed. That doesn't preclude doing something else at Edge in FA, where we do need to try and bolster the pass rush outside, but it would mean that Murphy then could become unnecessary, should we get another guy. It also covers the position in case we can't get anything done, or can't find a guy in the draft. I'm somewhat bemused by the often seen attitude around here, that guys can be replaced willy-nilly. They can't. Johnson might eventually develop into a handy pass rusher, but it won't be before another season has gone by. I really like Phillips, his attitude etc. but sacks aside, he can disappear at times. We also have his replacement on the roster in 'Orrible Harry, as a guy who can rotate in to spell Oliver - who I think will become a beast next year (Oliver). We don't have a ready made replacement for Lawson, just inferior alternatives (on the roster). I'd still like to keep Phillips as he brings energy, and he does make plays, but I fear he will be priced out in FA. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 10 hours ago, MAJBobby said: For proper value I think they would I agree and that’s why the 5th year option wasn’t applied and we find ourselves here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 tenor.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 14 hours ago, OZBILLS said: It feels like every time it's time to pay someone....everyone is like "oh, it's only one good year...let them go". Pay. This. Man :0 Which is the M.O. of one Bill Belichick. Maybe it finally caught up to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Bill's wiffed when they didnt pick up his 5th year option, could of had him for another year at a fraction of the cost. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The Bills will be playing Jordan Phillps on the DL. They will have to pay Spain on the OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: He should get some but nothing outrageous, need to see if played hard because it was a contract year or not. With a player approaching free agency, that is not a strategy. Do, or Do Not, when it comes to signing; there is no "try" Beane is on record saying they want to resign Shaq. 8 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said: don’t know if I’d pay him after the ***** song choice If we made contract decisions according to taste in music, I think probably 3/4 of the team would be out the door 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 One of those situations where I bet Beane is wishing he exercised that 5th year option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCT Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 31 minutes ago, Pirate Angel said: Bill's wiffed when they didnt pick up his 5th year option, could of had him for another year at a fraction of the cost. the 5th year option was reasonably high, something like 8 or 9 million, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 16 minutes ago, CheshireCT said: the 5th year option was reasonably high, something like 8 or 9 million, no? Top DEs are being paid in the 18-20 mill range. 8 or 9 million is no longer a high number for a DE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 It's all about the money !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyzDpX4r5ZQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 19 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: I don’t expect him back as I think McBeane & he differ widely on fair market value. Add to that, some team is so desperate for D-rush, they’ll way over pay. He’s already made very good money from his 1st Round selection, though imo, has only earned it the last season & a half. But I’ve been wrong before. Dunno, with Jerry winding down and nobody on the roster that can rush from the edge, I think Shaq's value has gone up. He's going to get $10 mil somewhere. He's young and really took a step up this year. Cut Trent and sign Shaq. Even so, we need to draft edge this year. 1 hour ago, ganesh said: The Bills will be playing Jordan Phillps on the DL. They will have to pay Spain on the OL. I think Jordan is gone. Someone's going to way overpay him. Besides, we have Oliver and H. Phillips coming back next year. With Liuget in rotation we're set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Allen Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 I'd like to have him back, but I wouldn't blame him for going to the highest bidder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 19 hours ago, Lurker said: Ménage à trois... 19 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: My hot take: WR in round 1; RB in round 2. I shouldn't want a RB that high, but I can't help myself... Lucker's post is hotter The thing is her parents will be owning the team for a long time so she will have plenty of replacement choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 17 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: You've got until 6/1 to cut Murphy as far as I know. Offer Shaq 8M per, if he walks fine, if not see where draft takes us and cut Trent when the 7.2 is needed. Neither Murphy or Lee Smith is being cut. Both are "designated to complain about players" on defense and offense respectively. If Shaq wants the money he needs to find a team which does not rotate linemen so much and show what he can do. Bet on himself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, egd said: Judon is not much better than Shaq??? Baltimore said they will franchise him if they can't reach a deal: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-to-use-franchise-tag-on-matt-judon-if-a-long-term-deal-cant-be-worked-out/ Would Buffalo franchise Shaq? Judon is a better risk than Shaq because he has been a productive player for a longer period of time. Shaq has only come on in the last year and a half. But that's the main reason why I see a significant difference. In 2019 I think they both played at a high and at a comparable level. Ravens have a somewhat different philosophy on D than does McD. They tend to lean heavily on their best guys as featured players perhaps sacrificing some of the benefits that a rotation system can deliver, but also giving those players additional opportunity to generate raw stats. It used to be Suggs. Now it's pretty much Judon. I'll admit it's an inexact comparison and can be debated but if you adjust Shaq's sacks, solo and combined tackles, tackles for loss, QB hits/pressures etc...for the fact that Judon played maybe more than 300+ additional defensive snaps and played in 1 more game, Shaq's totals match up very well. I like both Shaq and Philips but I do think a few of Philips sacks were a little soft. I think that was less the case with Shaq's (ex maybe Denver). Also of course Shaq is better against the run. I also think some folks don't realize just how good Shaq was this year. He.was quite outstanding IMO and quite possibly our best and most consistent D-line player. The question is does he play better only because of the payday (and once paid will laze out) or has he developed to this level with the possibility of further improvement. Just a guess but I think he's probably just now coming into his own. He's only 25 (3 1/2 years less than Judon). I think I'd be inclined to sign Shaq ahead of Philips but I wouldn't mind having both as well as an edge rusher in FA or with an early draft pick if for example Epinesa is there in the first (doubtful unless we move up). H. Philips will take over from Star in 2021 who won't be on the team then. Jerry Hughes is gone that year too. Contrary to some IMO Murphy is released in 2020. All of that frees up a lot of cap space in the next 2 years so if they see a FA edge rusher they like and are ok using it for this purpose I think they can afford it. Of course a guy like Judon will never be as valuable to the Bills as he is to the Ravens because of the rotation that McD employs. Could partly explain why the Ravens would consider franchising him. Edited January 11, 2020 by starrymessenger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 21 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I'd be offering 2 years 16M. Let him stay in the system, continue to improve, and then seek out his payday or sink. No way Shaq settles for a 2 yr contract. I would tag Shaq or Phillips. They are not worth that amount of money but for one year they csn afford it if a long term deal can't be reached. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The Bills have a key building block at each level of the defense; Ed, Edmunds and Tre. Those are the guys you plan on paying and the guys you build around. No one else is worth big $. Either resign guys for reasonable deals or replace them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Does this say his motivation was the $$$? Does he turn back into years 1-3 Shaq after he gets paid? That's the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 22 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: When he says "always", does he intentionally leave out the "starting this season"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 45 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: No way Shaq settles for a 2 yr contract. I would tag Shaq or Phillips. They are not worth that amount of money but for one year they csn afford it if a long term deal can't be reached. If they were going to tag Shaq then they should have just picked up his 5th year option IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, H2o said: Does this say his motivation was the $$$? Does he turn back into years 1-3 Shaq after he gets paid? That's the question. Answer is...no doubt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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