The backup qb issue

[GunnerBill]

I have said all year I think the Bills should draft a Quarterback early on day 3 and sign a low price vet to compete with Barkley this offseason. I get why he got a free swing last year... but now it is time to make him really compete for that position. If he wins out, fine. But I am far from convinced he will. 

[rayray808]

- Barkley couldn’t score on the goal line vs the Pats to win the game

 

- Barkley couldn’t score a TD against the Jets in the season finale

 

However...

 

- Barkley is a great team mate and helps Josh Allen learn the position of QB

 

- The Pats defense was on a crazy streak at the time of not allowing a TD

 

- Darnold also struggled that day as the weather seemed to be an issue for offenses to move the ball

 

in conclusion:

 

- Keep Barkley

- Draft a QB late and see if he can stick around 

[Dr.Sack]

Lots of talent in the middle to late rounds of the 2020 draft.

[nucci]

Most backups aren't that good....or else they'd be starters

[Doc Brown]

11 hours ago, whatdrought said:

Mariota is an intriguing one to me, but he’ll likely end up fighting for a job somewhere, or at least going somewhere with the door open.

That would be my ideal candidate.  He's more athletic and has a stronger arm than Barkley.  He may take a calculated risk knowing that Allen might not be the answer.  Similar to how Tannehill took his job.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, NJKBillsfan said:

I LITERALLY can't believe people want Barkley replaced after one game where he played with BACKUPS.

 

Seriously people how many brain cells do you have? LOL

 

Enough to known Matt Barkley is not better than Josh Allen. Let's start there.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, NJKBillsfan said:

How would anybody know that?

 

Barkley's only had one real start as a Buffalo Bill. 

 

In that game he played pretty damn good. 

 

Because anyone who has watched the rest of his career (he has started 6 other NFL games plus a fair bit of spot duty including Sunday) can reasonably conclude that the Jets game last year is an outlier.

 

I am not one saying Barkley must go. I think he should get the chance to compete for the backup job again next year. But there should be proper competition brought in this time. Not a free pass which is what he got last year.

[HOUSE]

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by HOUSE

[kkim0904]

What did Allen do on the first three drive?? No single first down for 5 yard passing.  Josh would not survive in that game and bet that he would not thrown more than 250 yards.  Except for turnover Matt played well with backups.  There was constant pressure from Jets D line.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, kkim0904 said:

What did Allen do on the first three drive?? No single first down for 5 yard passing.  Josh would not survive in that game and bet that he would not thrown more than 250 yards.  Except for turnover Matt played well with backups.  There was constant pressure from Jets D line.

 

Well he only played the first two drives. He threw 2 screens, a swing pass and a deep ball Duke Williams dropped (tough chance admittedly). But are we really saying that if he had played the whole game at 100% effort he wouldn't have outperformed Matt Barkley? Have I slipped into a twilight zone?

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I wonder if the Jags would pay us to take Foles contract off their hands....

Cool idea

[BringBackOrton]

10 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

Good take. Analyzing a QB isn’t always about who they are playing with, or yards thrown. There is so much more that goes into it. Of course, Barkley wasn’t going to have a great game with our backup WR’s, but there are fundamental abilities he lacks. These issues show regardless of situation. 

His pocket awareness also leaves a lot to be desired. When forced to play a backup QB, you hope the guy limits mistakes allowing his team to stay in games. Barkley’s inability to feel pressure would make that very difficult. He’s the type of guy who’s going to take terrible sacks, and turn the ball over due to lack of pocket awareness. That’s not the play you want from a backup. Anytime a backup QB makes a play it’s a bonus, what you really ask for is mistake free football. I don’t think Barkley can do that with his arm, and subpar pocket presence. 

Half the starters in the league can’t play mistake free football.

 

Is this thread just repeating cliches to each other?

[Lenigmusx]

12 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

agreed. You can’t judge him based on a game where he had to play with all the backups. 

As well as playing against one of the better defenses in the league. Playing all there starters and motivated to get into the off season on a positive note. So you take into consideration:

 

1. Rust (live bullets are much different than practice).

 

2. Playing with 2nd string.

 

3. Facing the Jets starting D 

 

4. He made some nice throws under pressure as well as some bad interceptions. 

 

The deep throw to Williams showed poise. Stepped up in the pocket with pressure coming and delivered a strike. 

 

-My only fear is how at times he doesn’t seem to “feel pressure” ie his lack of awareness on the sack/fumble. 

[kkim0904]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well he only played the first two drives. He threw 2 screens, a swing pass and a deep ball Duke Williams dropped (tough chance admittedly). But are we really saying that if he had played the whole game at 100% effort he wouldn't have outperformed Matt Barkley? Have I slipped into a twilight zone?

Allen is our QB and i am not saying Barkley is better.  What I tried to say is, it was not easy game even with Josh playing whole game.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, NJKBillsfan said:

I LITERALLY can't believe people want Barkley replaced after one game where he played with BACKUPS.

 

Seriously people how many brain cells do you have? LOL

I've been calling for an upgrade before this season and I thought it was absurd they gave him a contract after one good game (although this is the same regime that thought it was a good idea to make Peterman the starter at the beginning of last year).

 

Barkley's six starts with the Bears he went 1-5 throwing for 8 TD's and 14 INT's.  The Jets game last year was clearly an outlier.  Just the fact he was available in the middle of the season last year should tell you he may not even be good enough for a backup job.

 

I don't want to be in Pittsburgh's position next year when you have a great defense but have to rely on a reindeer and a duck in case Allen goes down.  It's especially important given Josh takes more hits than most QB's due to his scrambling ability.  If there's an upgrade out there then the Bills should pursue it aggressively.

[oldmanfan]

You can throw all the backup QBs in the league in a big box, blindly pick one out, and probably get the same performance out of them.  A notable exception being Bridgewater.

 

I thought Barkley looked bad, said so in the game thread.  If they can persuade say a Dalton to accept a backup role that could  be an upgrade.  But most backups are backups for a reason.

[davefan66]

He played with backups on both sides of the ball.  Played a heck of a game last year, and played OK against the patsies.  See no reason to get rid of him, especially for a guy who might challenge Josh like Bridgewater.

 

Good mentor to Josh, would hate to break up that Bromance!

[Sweats]

Barkley is rubbish......i wouldn't even let the guy work at the New Era field concession booth on the fry-o-lator, let alone throw an NFL pass.

[hemma]

Reminded me of Brian Brohm.

[Warren Zevon]

Fitz

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Half the starters in the league can’t play mistake free football.

 

Is this thread just repeating cliches to each other?

If you read the thread, you'd realize how ironic your moniker is given that I explicitly say that Orton was a guy who could make all of the throws! The Bills have been spinning their wheels with guys like Peterman and Barkley who CAN'T make all of the throws. As I also said, all backup qbs are gonna be flawed in some respects, but I do think basic arm strength is a necessity. Just look at a guy like Brissett, who went into the season as a backup. He can actually play, but the guy who subbed for him when he went down was Hoyer, who at this point of his career cannot play. He is terrible and simply can't make the throws. He cost them two games they would have in all likelihood won with Brissett (Pitt and Miami; they were leading and driving when Brissett went down against Pitt). It was the difference between 7-9 and 9-7/10-6 (I'm assuming Indy approaches the final game vs Jax a lot differently if they went in 9-6 as opposed to 7-8 and out of it). 

[thebandit27]

Completely agree Dave.

 

I'd look at Chase Daniel or Colt McCoy in FA. I'd love to get Teddy B, but my gut tells me that someone gives him a bridge contract.

 

Maybe if Indy decided to move on from Brissett that'd be an option, and there's always Case Keenum too.

3 hours ago, davefan66 said:

He played with backups on both sides of the ball.  Played a heck of a game last year, and played OK against the patsies.  See no reason to get rid of him, especially for a guy who might challenge Josh like Bridgewater.

 

Good mentor to Josh, would hate to break up that Bromance!

 

He was awful against the Pats******. He made one nice sideline throw and that was it.

[MassHog]

Bills should go after Dalton. He'll be a top 3 paid backup next year

[Hampton Josh fan]

Barkley is very limited as a backup,  and throws too many picks to have him back. With Josh being a running QB as well as holding the ball longer than any starting QB, our season might come down to surviving a 3 or 4 game stretch without Josh. My preference would be a veteran who can move around. Someone along the lines of RG3, TT,Colt McCoy, Bridgewater.

[CLTbills]

18 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

Yeah, he really stinks. Not sure what happened to that guy who put up 30+ on the jets in 2018, but he lost it somewhere along the way. Need an upgrade there next year.

Keep in mind, he was playing with ALL of our 2nd and 3rd string. 

 

Last year he was at least playing with all of the starters.

[dpberr]

I suspect with Barkley is that prior to being signed by the Bills last year, he was practicing intensively, working out, etc. in training "up" for a shot in the NFL.

 

Now that's he's the backup, there isn't that same level of intensity solely focused on just latching on to a team. He probably has a lot of responsibilities other than his own game readiness.  

 

Further, I don't think the Bills had the most elaborate game plan in Week 17 on either side of the ball. 

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

You can throw all the backup QBs in the league in a big box, blindly pick one out, and probably get the same performance out of them.  A notable exception being Bridgewater.

 

I thought Barkley looked bad, said so in the game thread.  If they can persuade say a Dalton to accept a backup role that could  be an upgrade.  But most backups are backups for a reason.

I really hope Andy bites if he's offered a backup role for us. I think Barkley's lack of velocity is his biggest downfall. Sideline outs take forever to get there. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

Barkley is very limited as a backup,  and throws too many picks to have him back. With Josh being a running QB as well as holding the ball longer than any starting QB, our season might come down to surviving a 3 or 4 game stretch without Josh. My preference would be a veteran who can move around. Someone along the lines of RG3, TT,Colt McCoy, Bridgewater.

I wouldn't mind Colt Mcoy, he seems to have a hatred for the Patriots and always elevates his game against them. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Completely agree Dave.

 

I'd look at Chase Daniel or Colt McCoy in FA. I'd love to get Teddy B, but my gut tells me that someone gives him a bridge contract.

 

Maybe if Indy decided to move on from Brissett that'd be an option, and there's always Case Keenum too.

 

He was awful against the Pats******. He made one nice sideline throw and that was it.

Yeah Josh played so bad it made Barkley look okay by comparison, but really he didn’t have a good game.

[thebandit27]

18 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Yeah Josh played so bad it made Barkley look okay by comparison, but really he didn’t have a good game.

 

I don't agree. They both looked bad.

[BringBackOrton]

16 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I don't agree. They both looked bad.

I just remember Barkley having almost as many passing yards as Josh did in about 12 minutes of play.

[Yav]

Stop. There's nothing wrong with Barkley. Most of the starters were out and it was a meaningless game.

Why do some people need to look problems that don't exist. 

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Yav said:

Stop. There's nothing wrong with Barkley. Most of the starters were out and it was a meaningless game.

Why do some people need to look problems that don't exist. 

Even with the excuses, it’s hard to take a lot of confidence from his performance..

 

I don’t see anything wrong about bringing someone in and competing for the position in 2020... if they beat him out then the position is upgraded... If not then no harm done..

 

A lot of other guys will need to beat out other guys to make the team... why not Barkley?

[TwistofFate]

Allen didn't do enough in this game to even make him comparable to Barkley.  He shouldn't even be compared imo considering they didnt even play with the same teammates. 

 

Barkley was terrible.  He seemed out of sync all game, but he was playing in a glorified preseason game against a 1st team. 

 

I expected more from him, but his poor performance in this situation is no where near enough to justify cutting him.   He played exceptional last season and all through preseason. 

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 hours ago, Gary Busey said:

Fitz

Likes kids?  (well, making them?)

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

How many teams in the league aren't doomed if their backup is forced to play?   The only exceptions tend to be teams that have a questionable starter to begin with so a good backup signs with that team as he knows he has a good chance to start, i.e. Fitz, and Tannerhill.

 

As was also mentioned, many of the better options aren't going to sign with a team where they know they will only be the backup  and never start other than due to injury, i.e. Dauton,

 

Drafting a rookie would put you in a worse spot

 

Couple that with many starters being out, don't think we're any worse than most teams.

[C.Biscuit97]

It’s funny people are surprised by this. Barkley, minus that game against a crappy Jets team, has been terrible every time he has to play. He is a fringe nfl qb.  Seems like a really good dude but you can do much better.  I hope they are not content with this. 

[Curt]

Barkley is a pretty decent backup. Bring competion at the 2020 training camp but I have no problem if he ends up being our QB2 for week1 2020.

[Big Turk]

On 12/30/2019 at 5:33 PM, dave mcbride said:

This is an issue for the off-season, but as I watched Barkley yesterday, I concluded that this is not a guy that can you to 2-2 over a four-game stretch when the starter goes down. That means he shouldn't be the backup QB, because that ability to get you to 2-2 over that stretch is the baseline requirement of the backup QB. I will admit to being snookered by his once-in-a-lifetime performance against the Jets last season, but man was he godawful yesterday. He had 3 turnovers and should have had 5 (one of which was reversed by a truly terrible officiating decision). He simply can't make all the throws, and he's the sort of player who is going to throw a couple of picks every game in which the score is remotely close because the floating duck is a core part of his repertoire. Plus his multiple slip-ups and staggers led to something like three free TFLs for the Jets.

 

I'd prefer not to spend a draft pick on a backup prospect. Who is going to be available on the open market next season? The seemingly obvious choices - Dalton, Eli, Rivers, Mariota - are not going to want to be backups in Buffalo (all would of course be major upgrades). Brissett strikes me as an ideal backup,  but he's not available. Anyone have any idea of viable candidates who will be on the market in the spring? (Before anyone gets any ideas, Fitz is under contract next season.) 

 

I mean, I could see staying with Barkley because he knows the offense and seems like a decent guy, but there's gotta be an upgrade out there, right?

 

Ehh...crappy weather conditions with backup players playing against starters on the other team is not the best measuring stick especially when Barkley took no real first team reps leading up to the game and just kind of winged it.

 

Pretty sure we would get a better performance with starters in and him getting first team reps leading up to the game.

 

Barkley basically was put in the worst possible situation for a QB to succeed so its little wonder he didn't.

Edited January 1, 2020 by matter2003

[Ayjent]

On 12/30/2019 at 6:57 PM, LABILLBACKER said:

What I saw yesterday wasn't just rust, and I like Barkley. The velocity on his throws was completely gone. I mean like a 75 mph fastball gone. I mean Chad Pennington with tendonitis gone.

I have no doubt the coaches will be upgrading Matt this spring with someone who has similar size/style as Josh. So the offense doesn't have to change much. Sorry Matt but we'll always have that Jets game.

Rookie is the best option and I agree. Bryce Perkins from UVA would be a great pick for a backup development QB.  Watched him in the orange bowl and seems to be have a very similar skill set to Josh without the cannon arm, but great feel for pocket and ability to throw in and out of pocket and while under pressure.  I was very impressed with him versus a tough D. Will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder. 

2 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

I'm still confident Barkley is actually better than Josh Allen.

 

Barkley might throw INT's but he's capable of throwing for 300 + yards and throwing for multiple TD's in one game. He's also much more accurate than Allen who is constantly missing wide open receiver's. 

 

 

Wow.  The dude is a turnover machine and mistake prone. Allen may not pile up stats but is more effective. 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Ayjent