Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 We’re not releasing star. It doesn’t make sense. I think you have a good question though. I’m gonna say no but I’m not too sure. He’s been so great for us but I think he costs too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZBILLS Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Hard to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, YattaOkasan said: We’re not releasing star. It doesn’t make sense. I think you have a good question though. I’m gonna say no but I’m not too sure. He’s been so great for us but I think he costs too much. My reasoning is that we re-sign both Lawson and Phillips and then could probably lose Star because Phillips and Oliver will take most snaps and 6-8-10m won’t be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Why not? If you think it's no please explain why? The guy is really fast for his size and he's got plenty of talented players around him to draw some heat away. What's important is that he will continue to be disruptive, of that I have no doubt. Whether it translates to sacks? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 sacks for a DT is way different than for a DE. It just doesn’t happen as much. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YattaOkasan Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: My reasoning is that we re-sign both Lawson and Phillips and then could probably lose Star because Phillips and Oliver will take most snaps and 6-8-10m won’t be worth it. If you think of the star dead money then it makes it that much more expensive to retain Phillips. I think they give him a good offer but he ends up leaving for someone that will break the bank. I hope they turn that into a comp pick. I would be happy to pay him stars money if he could keep it up and star didn’t cost money to cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianthomas Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 People saying we should lose Star aren't factoring in the cap side of it. He costs $10 mil next year with a dead cap hit of $7.8 mil. I think the more likely outcome is he's here for 1 more season & in 2021 he'll get released, where his dead cap is a smaller $5.2 mil. Thats not to say that I want him here. I haven't been a fan of that signing (or that contract) since day one. But I just dont see Beane paying that much money to get rid of him & then again to replace him. But to the op's question. Yes i think Jordan gets to 10 again. With Oliver's development, he should be even better next year. I imagine we'll address our DE situation in the offseason as well, along with another CB to play along side Tre. If Phillips is still with us i see no reason why he shouldnt be able to replicate the success he's had this year... perhaps even surpassing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelius Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I'll say no/maybe on 10 but I don't think that discounts him at all. Hard to get 10+ every year in his position. More than happy with 5 and offenses worrying about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Hope he does (for us), but like you said -- that's rarefied air for a DT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 He doesn't have to get 10+ sacks any more, he just needs to be a terror inside............... that's if the Bills re-sign him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I think he may have multiple 7+ sack seasons. Double digits is possible. Dude is speedy for a massive mountain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 51 minutes ago, brianthomas said: People saying we should lose Star aren't factoring in the cap side of it. He costs $10 mil next year with a dead cap hit of $7.8 mil. I think the more likely outcome is he's here for 1 more season & in 2021 he'll get released, where his dead cap is a smaller $5.2 mil. Thats not to say that I want him here. I haven't been a fan of that signing (or that contract) since day one. But I just dont see Beane paying that much money to get rid of him & then again to replace him. But to the op's question. Yes i think Jordan gets to 10 again. With Oliver's development, he should be even better next year. I imagine we'll address our DE situation in the offseason as well, along with another CB to play along side Tre. If Phillips is still with us i see no reason why he shouldnt be able to replicate the success he's had this year... perhaps even surpassing it. Dead cap isn’t going to matter at all to the Bills next year. The savings on Star’s salary to be able to retain Shaq and Phillips on that line would be worth it. And I think Star is better than most give him credit for. We have 80-90m to spend. We aren’t going to. Dead money from Star is immaterial. 35 minutes ago, njbuff said: He doesn't have to get 10+ sacks any more, he just needs to be a terror inside............... that's if the Bills re-sign him. Yep. His sack totals are crazy for a DT outside of Donald. Usually there are 1-2 DTs at most that get 10 sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloButt Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. I say No. This is his peak career year. He will still be productive but not 10 sack production as a DT. Props to him for a great season and high motivation when it counts for his upcoming payday! Hope we keep him! Go Bills!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I guess we'll find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. Releasing Star makes no sense. First we don't have anyone else at that position, second they've made it clear that he's doing what they want and third it would save us virtually nothing against the cap. Actually, the cap would go slightly up, not down. Will Phillips get 10 ever again? My guess would be yeah. He times snaps pretty well and sometimes seems to get between guys before they have moved though he stays onside. I wouldn't expect him to do that every year but once or twice more would be a reasonable guess, I think. I'd love it if they re-sign him. Not sure they'll be able to do it. They should try. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 If re-signed, yes. For another team, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I think Phillips walks and Shaq stays. Murphy is also cut. Star isn’t going anywhere yet because of his contract structure. Maybe after next year he will be cut. I think the Bills will look at either resigning Corey or finding another player to replace Phillips to go with Oliver, Harrison, and Star. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandalay Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. Star and Phillips play two completely different roles on the LOS. It's like comparing an edge rush OLB sack numbers to a MLB. Star is a lineman eating DT that allows other players like Phillips, Edmunds, Milano to perform their playmaking roles. Star will not show up on the stat sheet, but if the unit is playing well and guys like Edmunds are moving freely in space and Phillips is undressing single blockers and can't be double teamed -- then Star is doing his job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 No. He is taking advantage of double teams and broken plays. He is a good player but his season reminds me a lot of the Dareus 10 sack season. He beats his 1 on 1 and runs free at the qb. He may get back up to the area of 7 but what you should expect from him is 3 to 5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. Different positions for the DTs. I don't see Star getting cut, but they may look to cut his salary by a few mil. Could be win win for both. He's valuable to the D, but not worth $10 mil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessTruster Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said: Star and Phillips play two completely different roles on the LOS. It's like comparing an edge rush OLB sack numbers to a MLB. Star is a lineman eating DT that allows other players like Phillips, Edmunds, Milano to perform their playmaking roles. Star will not show up on the stat sheet, but if the unit is playing well and guys like Edmunds are moving freely in space and Phillips is undressing single blockers and can't be double teamed -- then Star is doing his job. exactly. Jordan can be more readily replaced. Guys like Star are few are far between. Scouts and teams know this. Will be an interesting test for Beane to handle this one, along with a few others (Milano, the O Line guys, etc. ) .. Next up Challenge for the McBeanes is can they hang on to their hand picked guys who have made the locker room as tight as it appears to be. Trust it. They will figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. He's got 9.5 already on the season. YES. With the way the defense is built. I say YES again. For his career 15.0 (only 5.5 with Miami) Some people THRIVE when they get to Buffalo. Just like (2 examples) Jerry Hughes, and Poyer, we got the best from them Some people crap the bed when they leave Buffalo. kudos to us. Edited December 18, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. Not with the Bills because he's never going to get more than 50% of the snap counts sharing time with Ed. I hope he's willing to take a little less $$ to stay here. He's a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 It often seems like DTs careers go down hill after they receive a large contract. There are exceptions of course, Kyle and Darnold for example. If we pay him I hope he stays motivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 9.5 sacks already https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/2577466/jordan-phillips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I'd be fine with 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Doc said: I'd be fine with 8. I would be fine with 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 6 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Why not? If you think it's no please explain why? The guy is really fast for his size and he's got plenty of talented players around him to draw some heat away. What's important is that he will continue to be disruptive, of that I have no doubt. Whether it translates to sacks? Who knows. Agreed. While sacks are important, I feel like that can be a bit of an overrated stat. Disruption and pressure are key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Yes? No? I expect it will be 10 by season’s end. Will he ever do it again? I say no but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t re-sign him. We should depending on the money. He loves Buffalo. He’s going to demand more than he is worth. But we should sign him and likely release Star. 10 sacks from the DT position is really hard to do. However I do think in this scheme with this rotation YES. Wait until he is next to a year 2 or year 3 Oliver and ultimately it is the scheme and his success in this scheme that will have him Re-sign for less than people think. Edited December 18, 2019 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 9.5 sacks so far this season. Next best season: 2. The question of what to expect going forward is a huge one. Has he turned the corner or is this season an anomaly (a contract year anomaly no less)? I really don’t know, but I have a strong suspicion that there is a team or two out there that will be willing to pay him like a 10 sack DT. I’d like to retain him, but I don’t think the Bills go there if that’s where his price ends up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: Why not? If you think it's no please explain why? The guy is really fast for his size and he's got plenty of talented players around him to draw some heat away. What's important is that he will continue to be disruptive, of that I have no doubt. Whether it translates to sacks? Who knows. He’s not really good against the run and that could be the reason we let him go , but I would rather keep him over Star Edited December 18, 2019 by Putin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, BarleyNY said: 9.5 sacks so far this season. Next best season: 2. The question of what to expect going forward is a huge one. Has he turned the corner or is this season an anomaly (a contract year anomaly no less)? I really don’t know, but I have a strong suspicion that there is a team or two out there that will be willing to pay him like a 10 sack DT. I’d like to retain him, but I don’t think the Bills go there if that’s where his price ends up. I would pay him Stars money in a heartbeat before paying Star that money. 1 minute ago, Putin said: He’s not really good against the run and that could be the reason we let him go he has been better against the run the last 4 weeks. Once he stopped trying to 2 gap and penetrate (his skill set) he has been good blowing up run plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: I would pay him Stars money in a heartbeat before paying Star that money. I said it when they gave it to him and I’ll say it now: Star’s contract is a travesty. A front loaded 5 year/$50M contract for a NT that doesn’t even require a double team and quit doing his one job - stopping the run - years ago (before we signed him). If the Bills part ways with him after this season he’ll have been paid $26M for two seasons of poor play. That’s absolutely ridiculous. So, yeah, there’s a lot of players that I’d give that contract to before him. At least a case could be made for Phillips being worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring it Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Hard to really know if he is ONLY playing this way for a contract or is it also just to be the best DT he can game in and game out? I’ll leave that up to McDermott and Beane. If he is totally all in and will keep up this intensity going forward I say pay him well but not Dareus money!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I doubt he hits 10 sacks. I think he probably hovers around 5 in future seasons unless he continues to improve (which is obviously a possibility, just not one that I'm counting on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maynard Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I’d love to re-sign him. Can’t we just tag him next year or no? Give him another year to see what he’s got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Maynard said: I’d love to re-sign him. Can’t we just tag him next year or no? Give him another year to see what he’s got. Tag will cost more than a long term deal. Bills shouldn’t overthink this. Give home that 8-9M AVV and be done with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I'd definitely like to see him stay and I think he can be more productive in Buffalo than anywhere else. Hopefully the price is right because he's playing better than anyone on our DL right now. Remember that he was a 2nd round pick, so it's not a complete surprise that he's coming around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Maynard said: I’d love to re-sign him. Can’t we just tag him next year or no? Give him another year to see what he’s got. Estimated Franchise tag for a DT in 2020 is $15.2M. Transition expected to be around $12.4M. https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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