When can we start to admit that the process failed?

[CaptnCoke11]

McDermott is too conservative.  The end of the game is inexcusable.  I’m pretty much done defending him 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

It is.  And if he picked a player just because the head coach wanted him then he also isnt doing his job.   Use whatever excuse you want but Beane's job is to get the best players he can, especially at QB.

 

Is it?  Who does McD report to?

 

McD and Beane are PEERS. Beane is going to get the player McD wants because if he doesn’t McD it going VFR Direct to the Pegulas as McD doesn’t report to the GM

Edited November 11, 2019 by MAJBobby

[CaptnCoke11]

1 minute ago, leonbus23 said:

I think that we can admit the process will not amount to much at the end of the season if we finish 8-8 or worse. Maybe even 9-7. But I think we will definitely get one more year of the process. 

8-8 or maybe 9-7 at best.  Miami, Jets, Denver are the only chances at wins i can.  

[ILBillsfan]

I would just like to see more of a commitment to the run game by the Bills otherwise I think too much over reaction by the fans

 

Falcons beat the Saints today Colts lost to Dolphins Rams lost to Steelers Chiefs lost to Tennessee i'm sure there are a lot of over reacting fans today

[NoSaint]

31 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

6-3.  Lost a tough one today.  The only game we truly stunk this year was Philly.

 

i understand people get emotional after a loss.  But the reality is this:  Beane is going nowhere, McD is going nowhere.  Allen is going nowhere.  Daboll and McD need to have a heart to heart about using their young RB better.  

 

Some of your stuff is on point.  Some not.  But the plan is not failing because they lost a close game.

we don’t have big holes and we tend not to make big mistakes. Against a soft schedule we should fare pretty well. 
 

on the bright side - if Allen can continue to slowly grow it’s a matter of adding a few (admittedly sometimes tough to fill) pieces 

[OZBILLS]

1 minute ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

8-8 or maybe 9-7 at best.  Miami, Jets, Denver are the only chances at wins i can.  

And of those latter three, we will drop 1-2 of them.

Miami and Denver worry me.

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, MDH said:

I thought they’d be 10-6. At this point I’d say they’re more likely to finish 9-7 and struggle to make the playoffs despite and all time cup cake schedule.

 

 

 

It is looking like your 10-6 record is in jeopardy.  There is still 7 games to go and things may change some.

The way I see the team is pretty much all aspects of the game need to improve.

It does seem everyone has their "pet peeve" reason (and I admit I get a little tired of that) but I'll stick with my observations.

 

If all areas improve some and Josh can learn to throw a long ball again things will get better.

On to Miami!

[Coach Tuesday]

Start??

[oldmanfan]

Just now, NoSaint said:

we don’t have big holes and we tend not to make big mistakes. Against a soft schedule we should fare pretty well. 
 

on the bright side - if Allen can continue to slowly grow it’s a matter of adding a few (admittedly sometimes tough to fill) pieces 

It’s not like I don’t see things that get me crazy.  Singletary is the most dynamic guy in our team yet we can’t or won’t give him the ball.  Allen is coming along, but there are times I scream at my TV:  throw the ball!!

[Boatdrinks]

4 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

I would just like to see more of a commitment to the run game by the Bills otherwise I think too much over reaction by the fans

 

Falcons beat the Saints today Colts lost to Dolphins Rams lost to Steelers Chiefs lost to Tennessee i'm sure there are a lot of over reacting fans today

I’m not sure fans are overreacting here. The offense has been a problem all year, and continues to be. Teams that produce offense occasionally have bad games and I understand that. The Bills performance has been consistently sub par. The defense isn’t perfect, but they don’t give up more than 20 points very often. The Bills cannot lose games when they don’t. 16 points doesn’t cut it, and they had possession of the ball at midfield with over 1 minuet left and a time out. I agree they don’t run enough, especially with Singletary. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Boatdrinks

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, zow2 said:

But next season the schedule already looks way tougher. So Pfffffft, to that “next year stuff.

A schedule can never be ascertained to be easy or tough until you start playing the season...too many injuries, player regression, player aging, draft picks, FA signings, etc to determine that...

 

Many times from game to game the difficulty or easiness of a game changes based on injuries to key players. Saying a schedule is harder next year half way through the season because you are looking at what teams are doing now is the most pointless exercise you could possibly do...it has ZERO meaning...actually negative meaning.

 

 

[ILBillsfan]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

I’m not sure fans are overreacting here. The offense has been a problem all year, and continues to be. Teams that produce offense occasionally have bad games and I understand that. The Bills performance has been consistently sub par. The defense isn’t perfect, but they don’t give up more than 20 points very often. The Bills cannot lose games when they don’t. 16 points doesn’t cut it, and they had possession of the ball at midfield with over 1 minuet left and a time out. 

Can you not say they had the lead with 4m left and the Defense let the Browns drive 80+ yards for the TD and win?

 

Sure the offense has issues but I would say again they do not do a good job of sticking with the run game

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

42 minutes ago, ShipUPride said:

This team is 100% McBeane's.  Their players, their scheme, their results.  

 

I see a QB who cannot hit a throw down field.  

 

I see a QB who struggles to hold onto the ball.  

 

I see an offensive scheme that is either too conservative or too aggressive, but rarely balanced.

 

I see draft picks not living up to either their potential our their drafted position.  

 

I see a run defense that has had multiple 200 yard games against them.

 

I see a defense that doesn't take the ball away.

 

I see below average special teams units

 

Overall, I see a plan that is failing.  

 

 

 

6-3?

[Doc Brown]

If that Hughes fumble stand we'd be talking about what a gutsy win this was by this team.  I need a full season before I admit anything.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Doc Brown

[Reed83HOF]

OC/QB combo is not the right fit is what the issue is...

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, ILBillsfan said:

Can you not say they had the lead with 4m left and the Defense let the Browns drive 80+ yards for the TD and win?

 

Sure the offense has issues but I would say again they do not do a good job of sticking with the run game

You could, but games go back and forth and 19 points on the road is a good effort. The goal line stops allowed the offense to even have a chance. If you’re expecting a 16 point output to win games in today’s NFL you won’t be very happy. Have to look at the overall picture. The D did their job today, the offense did not. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

6-3?

lazy and boring

[Bob in STL]

30 minutes ago, ShipUPride said:

This team is 100% McBeane's.  They're players, they're scheme, their results.  

 

I see a QB who cannot hit a throw down field.  

 

I see a QB who struggles to hold onto the ball.  

 

I see an offensive scheme that is either too conservative or too aggressive, but rarely balanced.

 

I see draft picks not living up to either their potential our their drafted position.  

 

I see a run defense that has had multiple 200 yard games against them.

 

I see a defense that doesn't take the ball away.

 

I see below average special teams units

 

Overall, I see a plan that is failing.  

 

 

 

 

The process is forever, it is not a 2 or 3 year thing.   Think New England, they have had winning processes (i.e culture) in place since Parcells got there.  Bellicheck continued them, and perfected them. 

 

I think the Bills are improving and the entire organization is gaining respect.  Sure, they have had an easy schedule so far but no teams control that.  

 

They have a decent shot to make the playoffs, losing today hurts but there will be opportunities to recover.  

 

Allen is the key.   If he fails short you draft another QB, an another, until you find one.  But you keep the talent base up so that whoever comes in is not starting with the mess that Allen had last season.  No more rebuilds, now we can enhance and coach up.  

 

We need playmakers, especially on offense.  The draft and free agency will provide more opportunities to add them.  The cap is well managed.  The players we have actually want to be here.  This year the talent is much better than last year and they will get even better.  

 

[JK Fan]

38 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I'll wait until the season is over to make a call on that.

 

Right now, I like this season better than last season.

The process is showing improvement this year versus last.  As long as it continues to the end of the season, we should consider the season a success.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

If that Hughes fumble stand we'd be talking about what a gutsy win this was by this team.  I need a full season before I admit anything.

It was a pass though, just like the Bills use all the time. It’s not like they lost on an iffy call. 

[ILBillsfan]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

You could, but games go back and forth and 19 points on the road is a good effort. The goal line stops allowed the offense to even have a chance. If you’re expecting a 16 point output to win games in today’s NFL you won’t be very happy. Have to look at the overall picture. The D did their job today, the offense did not. 

Yep lots of if's the team is closer to you think and over reacting by Bills fans after a loss like the sky is falling is probably the most silly thing.  The team is 6-3 and at the top WC spot presently and I would say over achieving based on expectations going into the year.

 

But your right not over reacting

[Meatloaf63]

31 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I hate this mentality.  Why not this year?

 

”If not now, then when?  If not me, then who?”

Because they have 80 million in cap space sitting there, this is not a Complete  rebuild yet. Whether or not they spend it wisely is yet to be seen...

Edited November 11, 2019 by Meatloaf63

[Best Player Available]

16 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Hasn't failed, they are a year earlier than they expected. From all tangible reports next year was the full go year.

Is there links for that comment? 

Because they need to hit on a lot of starters next year to contend for anything. On both

sides of the ball.

[Doc Brown]

Just now, Boatdrinks said:

It was a pass though, just like the Bills use all the time. It’s not like they lost on an iffy call. 

I realize that but this board is a little over reactionary after a close loss and over confident after a close win.

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

It was questioned back in 2017

 

 

[jkeerie]

18 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

 

I agree with so many of your points, particularly the one about Daboll.   His game plans from week to week are mind boggling.   Last week we ran Singletary because we played against the 28th ranked run defense.   Today we played against the 30th ranked run defense,  and Singletary gets 8 carries.?????????

 

I also am not satisfied with our DC.  When the Bills blitz,  it's generally successful,  yet blitzing is a rarity.  Can someone explain why we have to wait until half time to make adjustments in our run defense?  Can't these be made earlier, on the sideline?  Seriously,  I'd like to  know how adjustments work.

[billsfan_34]

Now- I really thought we were heading upward but I am seriously second guessing things now. Pure conservative game plan. Run D being gashed weekly. A FG kicker that is hoverin around 62 percent. A offensive coordinator that is running an offense that is unidentifiable. The list is long....

[Real McClappy]

9 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

OC/QB combo is not the right fit is what the issue is...

Agree but this falls on McD as well. McD knows the D and O game plan going into every game.  How in the holy hell can a coach look at a teams weakness and not even try to exploit it? How can a HC and OC not understand that a solid running game is a developing QB's best friend? 

[Bangarang]

49 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Allen is going nowhere.  You know that, I know that.  So people need to quit saying he won’t. He is in his second season and shows ability to bring the team back in the fourth.  Threw a lot of really good balls today.  Still working on his reads, and needs to hit one deep ball to get the monkey off his back.

Allen is likely our starting QB again next year but if we’re being honest, it’s his make or break year. If we still get more of the same then this time next year we’ll probably be talking about drafting his replacement.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

Allen is likely our starting QB again next year but if we’re being honest, it’s his make or break year. If we still get more of the same then this time next year we’ll probably be talking about drafting his replacement.

He needs to continue improving, no doubt.  And they need to trust him to do so.

[Bangarang]

20 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Because they have 80 million in cap space sitting there, this is not a Complete  rebuild yet. Whether or not they spend it wisely is yet to be seen...

lol 3 years of a rebuild and we still look as mediocre as we did before this regime took over. Great success! Maybe by year 15 of this rebuild we can have a decent offense.

[zow2]

22 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

A schedule can never be ascertained to be easy or tough until you start playing the season...too many injuries, player regression, player aging, draft picks, FA signings, etc to determine that...

 

Many times from game to game the difficulty or easiness of a game changes based on injuries to key players. Saying a schedule is harder next year half way through the season because you are looking at what teams are doing now is the most pointless exercise you could possibly do...it has ZERO meaning...actually negative meaning.

 

 

I agree for the most part. But I’m equally frustrated to hear we’re only in year TWO of the process and year three is when we’re expecting great things.  No, the window is unexpectedly wide open right now. Take advantage. Today.  

[Reed83HOF]

31 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Agree but this falls on McD as well. McD knows the D and O game plan going into every game.  How in the holy hell can a coach look at a teams weakness and not even try to exploit it? How can a HC and OC not understand that a solid running game is a developing QB's best friend? 

you mean with an RB who is averaging 5 yds per carry and only gets 8 rushes against the 30th ranked rush D?

 

Or running 4 verts on a 3rd and 4 with a QB who can't hit a deep ball?

 

Or wasting 30 seconds at the end of the game on deciding to huddle or not and then using a check based on the cover0 D to throw to Brown on 3rd down when they could have not gone to it and threw to the open Beasley?

 

Or trying to go for a tie with a kicker who has missed his last 4 over 50 yards (and missed one today)?

 

Or trying to play to not lose instead of win?

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Helpmenow said:

Fourth year will be critical

Agree 100%

[Boatdrinks]

If the team doesn’t have a winning record when next November rolls around. 

[SCBills]

Can we admit this thread failed?

 

How about after next year, at the earliest.... you know the year we have a boat load of cap space and all our draft picks... 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by SCBills

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, Helpmenow said:

Fourth year will be critical

 

If this team wins less than 9 games then I hope like hell we don’t see a fourth year.

[Jerboski]

Everyone celebrated the Oliver and Edmunds pick and I believe cody ford as well, now we are questioning his ability?

[Real McClappy]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

you mean with an RB who is averaging 6+yds per carry and only gets 8 rushes against the 30th ranked rush D?

 

Or running 4 verts on a 3rd and 4 with a QB who can't hit a deep ball?

 

Or wasting 30 seconds at the end of the game on deciding to huddle or not and then using a check based on the cover0 D to throw to Brown on 3rd down when they could have not gone to it and threw to the open Beasley?

 

Or trying to go for a tie with a kicker who has missed his last 4 over 50 yards (and missed one today)?

 

Or trying to play to not lose instead of win?

 

All of this is spot on. These are not over reactions after a bad loss either. This is the flat out truth coaching decisions that were made today. 

 

We got out coached by Freddie Kitchens for &%#$ sake. 

[MAJBobby]

Does anyone really know what the “Process” is?