Mayfield is << Allen

[GaryPinC]

I think the biggest problem is that Kitchens is not running the offense very closely.  I know supposedly he is, so my opinion alone but there is very little intelligence to their playcalling, most of the time they are looking for the long ball, not complementing the run game with the pass game.  Totally different than last year.  The communication and adjustments on their O-line was clearly lacking game 1 and was a bit better last night so that helps, but I feel like they have a very different and less intelligent offensive game plan this year.

 

Possibly they gave more autonomy to Baker and he's not ready?  I don't know but offensive strategy noticeably different this year.

[Royale with Cheese]

What would happen to the city of Cleveland if Mayfield is just average?  He becomes just at Matt Hasselbeck level?

[HOUSE]

4 hours ago, DCofNC said:

A lot of homerism here.  Mayfield has shown it in college and last year as a rookie, he works hard, has a great arm, can make plays on the run, generally makes good decisions with the ball and WINS.   The media got behind him and the Browns, now we have a bunch of people trying to poke holes in him and say Allen is better.

 

Last year we heard from everyone that Allen's line was the issue, but we're willing to ignore the issues Cleveland is having now when looking at Mayfield.

 

We heard Josh has "it" and finds a way to win, no matter how ugly, what was the outcome of the game people are freaking out over?

 

Every week the excuses come in for Josh missing guys that are open. Brown was wide open, for a td, but who cares? We scored on that drive anyway.  Mayfield misses OBJ once and now he is innacurate.

 

The offense sputters here and they are still needing time to "gel", forget that for Cleveland.

 

C'mon guys, judge with the same standards and quit trying to feel like your qb is clearly better because you are tired of hearing about Cleveland.  Most of you sound like jealous school girls defending your boyfriend.  As it stands, Allen has had a mediocre game that nobody wants to talk about because it was a win and a solid game.  He made improvement from last year, thus far.  He was still picked 7th overall, its not like he should be getting a pass for not playing well, the team invested a FORTUNE to draft him, he better be good.  Mayfield had a far superior rookie season and started off this year with a pretty mediocre game one, against a team that didn't suck so much they allowed him to recover.  Then had an average game, where he shockingly beat the ***** out of the same team Allen barely scraped by in his mediocre game.  

 

Let's breath a second and realize they are both young, both have new weapons and both were high draft picks with lofty expectations.  Both are going to wow you at times and both are going to suck at times.   It's nice that Allen has picked things up and is progressing.  Mayfield will be fine too.

 

Mayfield Blows....

 

[Victory Formation]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes. Besides the bravado and antics the dude TWICE WALKED ON at D1 programs and won starting jobs

 

You can say whatever u want about Baker and he may have regressed a little but his work ethic shouldn't be questioned

 

He obviously busts his butt in the film and weight room to get to where he is. Maybe he is losing it

I think Baker may be prideful and arrogant in many respects and it’s prevented him from growing. Guy had a great rookie season and he may have rested on his laurels a little bit.

 

Another thing is he may have too much on his plate. I mean they traded for OBJ and fans along with the national media are expecting the Greatest Show On Turf. May be a bit too much, too fast.

 

I do think in the end he’ll figure it out, but at this point I’d much rather have Josh Allen under center.

[CLTbills]

11 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I had Mayfield 4th but in all honesty I had Allen and Rosen as top 3 guys.  Browns changed the history of 5 teams or more by taking Mayfield instead of Darnold.  If Browns take Darnold like many predicted, Allen probably goes 3rd to the Jets and then it is a trade war at 4 to get Rosen.  

So glad it turned out the way that it did. I truly believe, in 15-20 years, when their careers have all ended, Josh Allen will have been the best of the group. 

 

And I don't think it's wishful thinking.

[berg1029]

A lot of people making pretty crazy statements based on 2 games this year

[Reed83HOF]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes. Besides the bravado and antics the dude TWICE WALKED ON at D1 programs and won starting jobs

 

You can say whatever u want about Baker and he may have regressed a little but his work ethic shouldn't be questioned

 

He obviously busts his butt in the film and weight room to get to where he is. Maybe he is losing it

NFL is different. Also, I have not followed his off season routine (since IDGAF), except for seeing him shotgun beers at an Indians game. I just don't see him, Landry & OBJ taking time to study their offensive playbooks.

[Reed83HOF]

3 hours ago, McBean said:

It really is incredible how bad the media hates Josh Allen.

 

It’s like Allen did something to all of them that we don’t know about. It’s all I can think of because I don’t know why so much negative sentiment towards the guy.

 

Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott posted good numbers against terrible teams. Don’t matter though! They’re great!

 

Allen looks like Montana first half against the Giants and could’ve thrown for 400+...the media? “Well, it’s because they played the Giants!”

 

I’m sick of the BS.

I get it, but I really like being under the radar this season. I would rather have Allen and Co. be focused on improving their game every week and not focusing on media hype and spotlight. We still have so much room for growth and actual growth that has to happen, I like not being in the limelight so we can focus on the important things right now...

[Don Otreply]

I likely missed it somewhere, but do any of you guys have BMs pass completion percentage numbers from the first two games? Would be kinda interesting to compare with the other 2nd year guys.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 hours ago, cage said:

I watched most of the Browns/Jets game tonight and this is the first time I saw Baker Mayfield outside of highlight clips.  Color me unimpressed.  I'll have to watch a bit more of him, but based on tonights game, I would consider Josh Allen the better QB, hands down.  

 

-- Less than 50% accuracy

-- Nearly got his TE killed.  I can imagine how many times we'd see that clip and the commentary if Allen made a throw like that

-- Consistently high and off target, with the exception of two long passes to OBJ

-- Poor decision making

-- Erratic while rolling right trying to evade pressure.  Allen is often at his best on those types of throws 

 

Allen would be crucified for having a game like Mayfield had tonight.

 

 

Agreed.

 

And i believe some fellows in here thought i was  crazy to have Allen above Mayfield 

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

52 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

What would happen to the city of Cleveland if Mayfield is just average?  He becomes just at Matt Hasselbeck level?

There is already a huge mural of him downtown!

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

There is already a huge mural of him downtown!

 

Is it the "Feeling dangerous" quote?

[GaryPinC]

13 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

NFL is different. Also, I have not followed his off season routine (since IDGAF), except for seeing him shotgun beers at an Indians game. I just don't see him, Landry & OBJ taking time to study their offensive playbooks.

I can't speak to Landry and OBJ but when Mayfield had his pro-day at OU what stood out was his preparation to detail.  Dorsey talked about how all the receivers were there early and fully ready to go on the start time.  Baker orchestrated and controlled the entire workout, which rightfully impressed Dorsey.  Unless Mayfield has fallen off a cliff from last year, he knows the playbook.  But he's looked mostly pedestrian to poor this year and it's difficult to understand right now.  The guy spread the ball around and made great decisions last year.

[3rdnlng]

12 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Does he really seem like the type of player to study & watch tape?

He doesn't have time to do so what with mowing the field and trying to figure out the circuit breakers.

[starrymessenger]

Greggo completely bamboozled Mayfield last night. Maybe just a case of an experienced DC getting the better of a young QB. Or maybe Baker has issues making (or attempting to make) adjustments based on post snap reads. If so, the question becomes whether with experience he can develop this skill. If he can't he will certainly be limited.

I was surprised to see how inaccurate some of his passes were last night even when he was going where he should with it. If he doesn't clean this up soon he's looking at a lot of turnovers coming up.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

Greggo completely bamboozled Mayfield last night. Maybe just a case of an experienced DC getting the better of a young QB. Or maybe Baker has issues making (or attempting to make) adjustments based on post snap reads. If so, the question becomes whether with experience he can develop this skill. If he can't he will certainly be limited.

I was surprised to see how inaccurate some of his passes were last night even when he was going where he should with it. If he doesn't clean this up soon he's looking at a lot of turnovers coming up.

 

 

If Gregggggggo confused him, just imagine what Wade Phillips will do to him this week.  

[Pokebball]

Good skills.  I think he's a pretty shytty leader.  He won't get as much out of his team that Josh and Sam will.

[Reed83HOF]

13 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

I can't speak to Landry and OBJ but when Mayfield had his pro-day at OU what stood out was his preparation to detail.  Dorsey talked about how all the receivers were there early and fully ready to go on the start time.  Baker orchestrated and controlled the entire workout, which rightfully impressed Dorsey.  Unless Mayfield has fallen off a cliff from last year, he knows the playbook.  But he's looked mostly pedestrian to poor this year and it's difficult to understand right now.  The guy spread the ball around and made great decisions last year.

Last year, yes he did look good. I also don't want this to sound like I'm calling him out and I don't follow CLE that much on twitter, but I really didn't see or hear much about his offseason and working on his craft in the NFL. I have seen in here a lot talking about college, that is fine and dandy, but this is the big leagues now...

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, aristocrat said:

baker was really inaccurate last night and not the guy i saw play last year. 

People are aware that he's playing hurt, right? He was very accurate in game one until he injured his throwing hand, after which his accuracy declined. He is definitely not back to 100 percent yet. 

7 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Greggo completely bamboozled Mayfield last night. Maybe just a case of an experienced DC getting the better of a young QB. Or maybe Baker has issues making (or attempting to make) adjustments based on post snap reads. If so, the question becomes whether with experience he can develop this skill. If he can't he will certainly be limited.

I was surprised to see how inaccurate some of his passes were last night even when he was going where he should with it. If he doesn't clean this up soon he's looking at a lot of turnovers coming up.

 

Again, his throwing hand is not 100 percent. He was photographed with a brace on his hand a few days before the game. It clearly is affecting him.

[formerlyofCtown]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Why is it that anything positive about Allen has to be qualified with the level of competition he has faced? I don't really hear that very much when we are discussing other QBs...

Ive said the same thing concerning NE going undefeated.  Ive said the same thing concerning Lamar Jacksons start.  I appreciate the positivety toward Allen as I appreciate everybody finally arriving to the party.

[aristocrat]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

People are aware that he's playing hurt, right? He was very accurate in game one until he injured his throwing hand, after which his accuracy declined. He is definitely not back to 100 percent yet. 

 

i forgot about that you're right that could def be an issue. 

[Reed83HOF]

10 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Greggo completely bamboozled Mayfield last night. Maybe just a case of an experienced DC getting the better of a young QB. Or maybe Baker has issues making (or attempting to make) adjustments based on post snap reads. If so, the question becomes whether with experience he can develop this skill. If he can't he will certainly be limited.

I was surprised to see how inaccurate some of his passes were last night even when he was going where he should with it. If he doesn't clean this up soon he's looking at a lot of turnovers coming up.

 

Reminds me of this:
 

 

[GaryPinC]

6 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

Last year, yes he did look good. I also don't want this to sound like I'm calling him out and I don't follow CLE that much on twitter, but I really didn't see or hear much about his offseason and working on his craft in the NFL. I have seen in here a lot talking about college, that is fine and dandy, but this is the big leagues now...

Even though I live in Cleveland, I don't follow their offseason that closely but I know he had workouts with his receivers during the offseason like so many other QBs.  Last year he came in and ran their offense well the entire year.  Checks, progressions, spreading the ball around to the open man so I felt he prepared very well last year.  Again, not sure the problem but I'm not ready to doubt him just yet.  The entire offense has looked bad.  Yesterday it seemed geared around getting Landry and OBJ the ball as their top 2 priorities.  No balance.

[PlayoffsPlease]

I find it interesting in a Bills fan forum how aggressively people are defending Mayfield. So far this season his summary grade = sucks.    It is not like the titans and jets are the top defenses in the league though. And teams had a full off season to review a year of tape on him.  He may just be mired in a classic sophomore slump.   He may get better. He may not. 

[x-BillzeBubba]

 

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

If Allen wins us a Super Bowl I don't care if the media wants to claim Mayfield, Darnold & Jackson are better.  All that matters is Allen is the best QB for the Buffalo Bills.  Very similar to when Kelly was rated behind Elway & Marino among the class of 1983.   

100% agree. I still, to this day, would rather have Kelly over either one!!! I always loved Kelly's attitude, toughness and ability to rally the team. Marino and Elway were WAY more ego-centric. I think Kelly was too, but more-so early on. But, I think the Bickering Bills in '89 straighten out his goals and approach to the game.

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

Even though I live in Cleveland, I don't follow their offseason that closely but I know he had workouts with his receivers during the offseason like so many other QBs.  Last year he came in and ran their offense well the entire year.  Checks, progressions, spreading the ball around to the open man so I felt he prepared very well last year.  Again, not sure the problem but I'm not ready to doubt him just yet.  The entire offense has looked bad.  Yesterday it seemed geared around getting Landry and OBJ the ball as their top 2 priorities.  No balance.

I don't want it to sound like I'm writing him off, on all the rooks from last year, the book is still be written and they are developing. Brownies also don't have a great OL which will hurt and by having bigger name WRs, you have to feed them, which could stunt you as an offense overall by forcing it too much as you point out. This is another reason why I am glad we are under the radar this year, would rather have Allen focus on developing and now trying to placate WRs, RBS, TEs and the national media. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 hours ago, cage said:

I watched most of the Browns/Jets game tonight and this is the first time I saw Baker Mayfield outside of highlight clips.  Color me unimpressed.  I'll have to watch a bit more of him, but based on tonights game, I would consider Josh Allen the better QB, hands down.  

 

-- Less than 50% accuracy

-- Nearly got his TE killed.  I can imagine how many times we'd see that clip and the commentary if Allen made a throw like that

-- Consistently high and off target, with the exception of two long passes to OBJ

-- Poor decision making

-- Erratic while rolling right trying to evade pressure.  Allen is often at his best on those types of throws 

 

Allen would be crucified for having a game like Mayfield had tonight.

 

 

Since they both played the same defense a week apart there is something worthwhile to compare there.

 

Jets D really different without Mosley btw.  

 

FWIW that slant OBJ took to the house was the same slant Allen threw behind Zay incomplete.  Would love to have seen him catch it just to see if he can RAC. 

 

 

[billsfan89]

Far too early to tell on both Allen and Baker. Baker got off to a slow start last year too and finished strong, maybe he is just a rhythm type guy who plays better deeper into a season? As far as Josh he looked like ass in the first half against the Jets but showed up to win the game and took care of business well against a bad Giants team. Not exactly a grand resume. The NFL season might only be 16 games and week to week people go crazy but you still have to keep things in perspective. 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Hmmm ... a bit soon to be judging careers, but hey, have at it

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Does he really seem like the type of player to study & watch tape?

 

Or take constructive criticism 

3 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Reminds me of this:
 

 

 

Thats pretty funny .... I belive Beli has been doing the same for decades 

3 hours ago, x-BillzeBubba said:

 

 

This fills my heart with joy

[Ralonzo]

9 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

As far as Josh he looked like ass in the first half against the Jets

 

Play-by-play, no, he did not look like ass. This is more fak... uhhh, media reinforcement of an erroneous assertion.

[billsfan89]

On 9/17/2019 at 12:54 PM, Ralonzo said:

 

Play-by-play, no, he did not look like ass. This is more fak... uhhh, media reinforcement of an erroneous assertion.

 

He didn't look awful on every play obviously. But he was very up and down and overall I would say that he played poorly that first half. I place blame for all turnovers but the Beasley tip to some degree on Josh. The fumbled snap and other tip ball turnover weren't fully his fault but I think he bares some responsibility for those turnovers. 

 

I also think the he looked uncomfortable at times and really inconsistent. Of course he turned that around for the most part in the second half and he turned it around against the Giants. But every player has bad half's and bad games. I am not sure how good Cincy's defense is but after Cincy you have two tough defenses in NE and TEN coming up. By the end of 5 games we will really have a good sense of where Josh is at development wise. 

[YoloinOhio]

On 9/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Is it the "Feeling dangerous" quote?

Yes

[Seven-N-Nine]

On 9/17/2019 at 12:48 PM, Houston's #1 Bills Fan said:

Very similar to when Kelly was rated behind Elway & Marino among the class of 1983.

 

Which turned out to be correct.  Elway won SB's and Marino had way better numbers/talent.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Seven-N-Nine

[Aussie Joe]

I’ll take JA thanks..

[VW82]

To date, Baker has shown way more than Josh or any other QB from the 2018 class. It's anyone's guess who will turn out to be the best. 

[zevo]

2 minutes ago, VW82 said:

To date, Baker has shown way more than Josh or any other QB from the 2018 class. It's anyone's guess who will turn out to be the best. 

I need specifics 

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, VW82 said:

To date, Baker has shown way more than Josh or any other QB from the 2018 class. It's anyone's guess who will turn out to be the best. 

 

Baker was pro-ready coming into the Draft, and played well last year.  No doubt. 

 

This year, all these guys “year 2” is much more important as adjustments have been made, growth/maturity is happening and these QBs are beginning to develop.  

 

Not sure what to make of Darnold yet and Rosen is a mess.  That leaves Allen, Jackson and Baker.  Baker has the best weapons of any of the young guys, but Allen and Jackson look to be separating from the pack.  

[EasternOHBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, VW82 said:

To date, Baker has shown way more than Josh or any other QB from the 2018 class. It's anyone's guess who will turn out to be the best. 

 

Are you watching this miserable trash on TV? You can't be, because Baker looks terrible. It's anyone's guess why you would say such a thing when there is mounting evidence this is not the case.

 

P.S. LAMAR JACKSON is better than Baker at this point, so there is that.