PFF really hates Josh Allen

[Seven-N-Nine]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

LMAO...…  I saw a different game

Probably has to do with fandom, on both takes...

[Mango]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Josh Allen is easily the most polarizing QB ive ever seen. 

 

Analytics guys hate him because he, up until yesterday, doesn't dink and dunk his way to 60% completion percentages. 

 

Draft guys apparently need to be right, while never admitting mistakes, so they hold onto this Wyoming view of Josh Allen.  

 

Then there's a handful of analysts that think he has superstar potential. 

 

Meanwhile, he somehow turns the ball over 4x yet wins the game and looks better than his draft counterparts Baker and Sam in Week 1.

 

Seriously though...Tim Tebow was equally polarizing, because all that mattered was the W to some fans. 

 

Here is to hoping that Allen’s story ends differently. 

25 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

PFF can piss off! Who cares lets just win. Take the turnovers away that weren’t on Josh and he is looking pretty darn good for minimal starts under his belt.

 

Take these events away and he looks pretty good insert excuse...

 

I get what you are saying, and agree to a certain extent. But at some point Josh Allen needs to look good without adding “remove this” and he looked good. Or “considering” he looked good. He hasn’t don’t that yet. We hope he does though. 

[HappyDays]

37 minutes ago, VW82 said:

Perhaps the only reason we don't like them is because to date they've been hard on our young QB who has had his fair share of growing pains??  

 

Nope. I've hated them for years. They use broadcast footage and unpaid interns to do 90% of their analysis. The objective stat stuff they do is good, but their subjective player grades have always been a joke. It is impossible to grade an NFL play using broadcast footage without any idea of the play call.

[H2o]

54 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Nope. I've hated them for years. They use broadcast footage and unpaid interns to do 90% of their analysis. The objective stat stuff they do is good, but their subjective player grades have always been a joke. It is impossible to grade an NFL play using broadcast footage without any idea of the play call.

I knew they were full of  when I watched some low budget YouTube video about the draft. They were talking about the "PFF Draft Guide", how it was in circulation throughout all of the NFL organizations, and you could tell which teams were going by it. I laughed so hard when I heard those idiots say some dumb  like that. It was at that point I realized how much of some kind of talent evaluator wanna-be's these jerk-offs were. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by H2o

[Rocket94]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I knew they were full of  when I watched some low budget YouTube video about the draft. They were talking about the "PFF Draft Guide", how it was in circulation throughout all of the NFL organizations, and you could tell which teams were going by it. I laughed so hard when I heard those idiots say some dumb  like that. It was at that point I realized how much of some kind of talent evaluator wanna-be's these jerk-offs were. 

Thank you for saying it for me! They just cheapen the game. Necessary part of the food chain I guess.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Rocket94

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Seven-N-Nine said:

Probably has to do with fandom, on both takes...

 

I really felt Allen was cosiderably better than the description of the nay sayers sighting 4 turnovers

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

Seriously though...Tim Tebow was equally polarizing, because all that mattered was the W to some fans. 

 

Here is to hoping that Allen’s story ends differently. 

 

Take these events away and he looks pretty good insert excuse...

 

I get what you are saying, and agree to a certain extent. But at some point Josh Allen needs to look good without adding “remove this” and he looked good. Or “considering” he looked good. He hasn’t don’t that yet. We hope he does though. 

Excellent post.

 

For obvious reasons, most folks here in the Bills fanbase want to bend over backwards in support of Allen.

 

But at some point, he's going to have to find a way to be consistently good.  Not sometimes good.

 

That Jets team looks like a 5 win or less team.  Allen was good enough yesterday and we got the "W".  Great! 

 

But his performance yesterday, on the whole , will not be good enough to win most games, and in fact, would have resulted in a loss yesterday 99% of the time.  

 

That game yesterday was a statistical freak of nature.

 

 

[Chicken Boo]

3 hours ago, The Wiz said:

They don't hate Allen. 

 

They hate the idea that they may be wrong about Allen. 

 

 

 

OR they're calling it like they see it.  4 turnovers is 4 turnovers.  There were a couple more that could have bounced the wrong way as well.

 

Josh does a lot of good things, but the bad is there for everyone to see.  Bills fans tend to take the "glass half full" approach, is all.  Fortunately for Josh, he redeemed himself in the 4th quarter. 

 

PFF is not wrong.

[NickelCity]

***** 'em. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

Seriously though...Tim Tebow was equally polarizing, because all that mattered was the W to some fans. 

 

Here is to hoping that Allen’s story ends differently. 

 

Take these events away and he looks pretty good insert excuse...

 

I get what you are saying, and agree to a certain extent. But at some point Josh Allen needs to look good without adding “remove this” and he looked good. Or “considering” he looked good. He hasn’t don’t that yet. We hope he does though. 

 

Nice take you got there.

 

[2003Contenders]

This smells of a national media outlet that did't even watch the game and relied solely on box scores: "Josh Allen 1 passing TD, 1 rushing TD, 2 INTs, and 2 fumbles. He sucks."

 

Anyone who actually watched the game would have seen more positives than negatives:

 

 1. The inaccuracy narrative (at least in the game) seemed quite unjustified.

 2.  He stayed poised and made plays when he had to in the 4th quarter

 3.  In the first half, he was pretty much the entire offense -- and did a nice job moving the ball.

 4. Once could argue that NONE of the turnovers were his fault.

 5. The rushing stats are usually not factored into the equation for QB quality analysis. Yet, Josh didn't just take off when he felt pressure; he actually scrambled with purpose.

 

Meanwhile, these same clowns are likely defending Mayfield and his 3 INTs against Tennessee yesterday because it fits their analytics narrative. "This game was an aberration", etc.

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

10 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Excellent post.

 

For obvious reasons, most folks here in the Bills fanbase want to bend over backwards in support of Allen.

 

But at some point, he's going to have to find a way to be consistently good.  Not sometimes good.

 

That Jets team looks like a 5 win or less team.  Allen was good enough yesterday and we got the "W".  Great! 

 

But his performance yesterday, on the whole , will not be good enough to win most games, and in fact, would have resulted in a loss yesterday 99% of the time.  

 

That game yesterday was a statistical freak of nature.

you would find it to be excellent. 

[billybob71]

3 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-what-we-learned-week-1-2019

 

No comment on Singletary or the Defense, just hate on Josh Allen in both segments. 

 

Buffalo

What I think is real: Bad Josh Allen. He had two interceptions, two lost fumbles, and more mistakes that the Jets couldn’t capitalize on. He’s just not very good. … John Brown did what most of us thought Brown would do, scoring a long touchdown and leading the team in targets. He’ll be hit and miss, but the hits will be good.

What I don’t: Good Josh Allen. In the fourth quarter, he led two scoring drives to ultimately win the game, rushing for one touchdown and connecting with Brown on the game-winning score. But there is just too much that is a mess about his game right now.

sounds like they watched a few highlights but not the whole game. also everyone is analyzing him with an agenda based on their opinions of him coming out of the draft.

[oldmanfan]

He may have been given 4 turnovers but was only responsible for two.  You hit a WR in the hands and he knocks it up in the air that ain’t the QB.  When the C hikes the ball into his own thigh and you never even touch it, the fumble ain’t on the QB.

Edited September 9, 2019 by oldmanfan

[billybob71]

Also its his 12th full game people and  on the road with a divisional opponent how bout we give the kid some time here. He is showing more promise to me than any 

QB we've had since Kelly

Edited September 9, 2019 by billybob71

[Ralonzo]

 

3 hours ago, VW82 said:

Wasn't Josh the highest rated fantasy QB after returning from injury last year? As long as he keeps rushing for TDs and breaking the occasional long one he'll be a decent match up QB at worst and potential QB1 for a lot of fantasy owners.

 

Josh currently sits QB14 before the MNF games. He'll likely end the week exactly average. If this is how they react to average QB fantasy play, I wonder what they are saying about Roethlisburger?

[SloanBillsFan]

4 hours ago, FrenchConnection said:

Its all just confirmation bias. If you had Josh scored low coming out, there is enough in the stats to confirm your bias. And before you scream "there is more to football than stats!", note that post is in a fantasy blog. Fantasy football is only stats.

Guess that's just another reason I don't play or follow FF. I'd rather just get a win, even a somewhat ugly win, against a division opponent in the season opener. 

[billybob71]

And im talking the kid has a chance to be consistently good for years to come. I dont know why so many 
Bills fans are down on this idea. I know I know we have been let down by so many QBs since Kelly but damn why is everyone so afraid to admit that we may have our franchise QB here. I am choosing to be excited about it instead of debbie downer. im freaking sick of rooting for a team and knowing the QB isnt gonna amount to anything therefore coach and gm fired and back to square one yet again. cmon bills fans show some HOPE 

b

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

25 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I’m so surprised they didnt declare him the top QB in the league after that win.  Anyone who disagrees with me must be silenced. 

did anyone declare him the top QB in the league? this is the thing, especially on this board. the kid finished. before he finished he had some bad breaks, made some mistakes but also made some good plays. this was the first game of the season. have you seen some of the bad games around the league? the bills as a team finished and won yet there will be those that will find every damn thing they can to spin it in to a negative, that's messed up to me.

 

I mean, you can't even win on the road against a division rival in your first game of the season without all the negative hot takes. it's okay to critique a player but their are some already pretty much writing off JA. to me, yesterday was tough to watch that kid have so many negative plays (6, int saved by penalty, safety, 2 fumble, 2 int) against him and the team, tough. I was not feeling they would persevere, yet they did. he put those negative plays behind him and led the team to a victory, can't ask for more then that. 

 

the best thing about that game was not just the win but how they did not quit, no heads were hanging. this is a young team that has not even jelled yet on offense but they managed to do enough to get the win and that is the goal, win football games. there will be more to this development picking back up sun. against the giants who I'm sure they wont be taking lightly, as they shouldn't.

Edited September 9, 2019 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

19 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

I’m so surprised they didnt declare him the top QB in the league after that win.  Anyone who disagrees with me must be silenced. 

This daily anger of Allen not being recognized is getting old. 

 

As are the takes of people who don't know what they're talking about.

 

Looking at YOU ned.

 

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

 

No, I don't want to play that game. I only consider actual plays that actually happened.

But those plays actually did happen, we just got unlucky on a few and lucky on others. Just sayin’. In the end we got the W ?

Edited September 9, 2019 by billsfan_34

[mjt328]

Go back to Week 2 of 2018, when Josh Allen made the first start of his career.

Look at his pocket presence.  Look at his ability to read a defense.  Look at his mechanics.

 

Then watch his game yesterday, and judge him in those same three areas.

Anybody that doesn't notice a HUGE improvement is lying, or not paying attention.

 

Acknowledging this does NOT mean you are blind to the places he can still improve.  It's very clear that his decision-making is sometimes very poor.  There were at least two horrible throws yesterday, which Allen shouldn't have attempted.  (He also made one of these throws in Preseason).  

 

Honestly, I don't know what the Allen critics are seeing that I am not.  I also watched Mitchell Trubisky (who is in his third year) on Thursday, and people are still excusing him as a "developing" quarterback.  I watched every snap from Sam Darnold yesterday, and he was awful.  Even Baker Mayfield threw 3 picks yesterday.  But for some reason, it's the Bills QB who sucks.

 

[DuckyBoys]

19 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He may have been given 4 turnovers but was only responsible for two.  You hit a WR in the hands and he knocks it up in the air that ain’t the QB.  When the C hikes the ball into his own thigh and you never even touch it, the fumble ain’t on the QB.

it is if you are pro football focus or some of the Allen haters on this board.  He made some mistakes yesterday but there were some great throws and he didnt crap his pants late in the game  Lets see what this Sunday brings  He hasnt started 16 games yet, its too early to crown him or write him off.

[billybob71]

and i could give 2 ***** about completion percentage and almost ints and analytics crap. so far he is  showing poise, leadership, and that he can handle adversity. thats way more important to me than analytics. there is more to the game than stats. and if he keeps on track with his development the stats are gonna come. thank goodness we no longer have a QB the coaches dont trust and QBs who cant move the offense for multiple games. 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by billybob71

[dollars 2 donuts]

What I think is real: Josh Allen is 6-6 in 12 career starts, 6-5 in games he's started and finished, and 5-2 in his last 7 starts after coming back from injury last year.

 

What I don't: PFF's knowledge of what it takes to win actual games played on fields with blood and water filled human beings.

[Jay_Fixit]

PFF

 

 

 

Lol

[Forward Progress]

The analytics camp is most interested in proving that their method of statistical evaluation is correct.  That is the product that they sell to the market, so it is vital to the viability of their business that they consistently prove their model to be right.   

 

When you enter Josh's college stats into their model, it shows that it is statistically likely that a QB with Josh's stats will not have success at the NFL level.   Any commentary, regarding Josh's performance from the analytics community is biased, because they need to continue to promote their products and prove their model to be accurate.   In order to support their position, they will highlight every negative stat that they can from Josh's game (i.e. focus on the four turnovers and fully attribute them to Josh).

 

However, we have to admit that, as Bills' fans, we are also biased and desperately want to see the positives in our QB.  We will focus on the three scoring drives to win the game with our backs against the wall.  The truth is somewhere in between to two extreme views, but I'm happier on the positive side, so I will stay there.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Forward Progress

[Dr.Sack]

If we win I don’t care how bad or ugly Allen plays. Big Ben won a Super Bowl playing at a sub starter level. You can win in the NFL looking ugly. That said, I don’t think we can win many games turning the ball over 4 times  in one half, especially against NE or KC. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Forward Progress said:

The analytics camp is most interested in proving that their method of statistical evaluation is correct.  That is the product that they sell to the market, so it is vital to the viability of their business that they consistently prove their model to be right.   

 

When you enter Josh's college stats into their model, it shows that it is statistically likely that a QB with Josh's stats will not have success at the NFL level.   Any commentary, regarding Josh's performance from the analytics community is biased, because they need to continue to promote their products and prove there model to be accurate.   In order to support their position, they will highlight every negative stat that they can from Josh's game (i.e. focus on the four turnovers and fully attribute them to Josh).

 

However, we have to admit that, as Bills' fans, we are also biased and desperately want to see the positives in our QB.  We will focus on the three scoring drives to win the game with our backs against the wall.  The truth is somewhere in between to two extreme views, but I'm happier on the positive side, so I will stay there.

 

Good post.

 

As someone who made use of statistics professionally for a couple decades, one of the things that is often missed is to look at the boundary conditions and determine whether or not they apply to a specific instance.  For example, applied to a player a big college program where the entire team is good, using a data set derived from the big college programs from which most NFL players get drafted: that's within the boundry conditions of the dataset, so the data is applicable and if the model suggests low probability of success, that may be true.  But if you have a player who attracts attention from a smaller program where the entire team is not so good - the data may not be applicable and the model may not apply.

I look at it in a simpler way: Nix made the comment about Russ Wilson before the draft, that QB with his size attributes typically don't succeed in the NFL, but that one attribute that can't be measured is a player's heart.  I think that applies to Josh Allen.

[Zerovoltz]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ha.  Actually, the KC-Jags game was on my TV while I was watching a stream of the Bills-Jets, and the former was actually a miserable game to watch.

It was just a thorough ass whupping of the Jags.   As much as I dislike Jax' Thug Culture and Marrone, it was such a one-sided beatdown that you'd have to be a true KC fan to enjoy it.   @Zerovoltz must have been straining his lips smiling.

 

But the thing is, I'm just a fan, not a football guru.  If I wanted to make a profession of and be taken seriously as the latter, I'd watch the game before I flapped my mouth

 

 

Oh-ho you mean, like ESPN? (QBR)

 

Come on Hapless, Chiefs games are pretty exciting...you know Mahomes is going to put on an incredible performance....and our D isn't elite so the other team always has at least a chance.      

 

***I ONLY READ THE THREAD TITLE***  ....I love metrics, but I don't really like PFF that much....not because of what they think of Allen, but there have been plenty of players and performances they've ranked with their system that make me scratch my head too often for me to put too much into what they say, postitive or negative.  

 

If you asked me what I thought of Allen.....nothing I saw in the game yestarday changed my mind one way or another...I feel like the Jets are a mixed bag of meh so I don't know if I watched Allen against a bad team, a good team, or a if that was a weird game.  

 

The game winning touchdown pass......to be honest, I think he badly underthrew that, and Brown, who was looking for the ball, was able to adjust and make a play on it...while the defender never saw that it was thrown short.  I know that in the NFL, there are plays and QB's who do back shoulder throws on purpose on that sort of play, and if you folks here want to tell me that's what happend, then fine...I won't argue it...but to me it looked like a bad throw that was made good by Brown.

 

Either way, Allen threw it, he caught it...it won the game...it's an important development if Allen is going to take a step forward..the team can beleive they CAN come back with him leading the way...that's more important than the semantics of if the pass was bad or not....of how his overall day was.....

 

I'm not going to take this game and make any real judgements here...I need to see alot more snaps/game action before I come to a conclusion.

[Forward Progress]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Good post.

 

As someone who made use of statistics professionally for a couple decades, one of the things that is often missed is to look at the boundary conditions and determine whether or not they apply to a specific instance.  For example, applied to a player a big college program where the entire team is good, using a data set derived from the big college programs from which most NFL players get drafted: that's within the boundry conditions of the dataset, so the data is applicable and if the model suggests low probability of success, that may be true.  But if you have a player who attracts attention from a smaller program where the entire team is not so good - the data may not be applicable and the model may not apply.

I look at it in a simpler way: Nix made the comment about Russ Wilson before the draft, that QB with his size attributes typically don't succeed in the NFL, but that one attribute that can't be measured is a player's heart.  I think that applies to Josh Allen.

 

I completely agree.  When determining the future success of an NFL QB, there are so many intangibles that do not appear on a stat sheet. 

 

I really appreciate how much effort Beane’s team puts into player evaluations that go well beyond the analytics guys. Josh is a leader of men, with a large capacity to learn and an unbreakable competitive spirit.  These traits will help Josh become the QB he that he will be one day.  His floor is already much higher than we anticipated and the ceiling is very high. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

Come on Hapless, Chiefs games are pretty exciting...you know Mahomes is going to put on an incredible performance....and our D isn't elite so the other team always has at least a chance.      

 

Haha if I were a Chief's fan, I'm sure I'd relish it, but that bad of a beatdown becomes pretty dull unless you're a fan of the winner.

 

21 minutes ago, Zerovoltz said:

The game winning touchdown pass......to be honest, I think he badly underthrew that, and Brown, who was looking for the ball, was able to adjust and make a play on it...while the defender never saw that it was thrown short.  I know that in the NFL, there are plays and QB's who do back shoulder throws on purpose on that sort of play, and if you folks here want to tell me that's what happend, then fine...I won't argue it...but to me it looked like a bad throw that was made good by Brown.

FWIW, Brown says he wasn't able to get open the way the play was designed, so Allen took a shot on a different throw and trusted Brown to adjust.  Brown says it was a perfect throw for the coverage: (TBN, may be a paywall, free trial available):

 

Brown didn’t get open the way the route was designed on the touchdown pass with 3:00 left. It was a stutter-step-and-go route down the left sideline.

“It was just a double move, and the defensive guy had great position on the ball,” Brown said of Jets cornerback Darryl Roberts. “It was supposed to be thrown over the top, but the guy took the top off of it.”

 

Recognizing the need to adjust, Allen showed trust in Brown to stop his route short and make a play. Allen threw it as if it was a back-shoulder play, and Brown caught the ball in front of Roberts, who couldn’t change direction in time.  “The guy had great coverage, and Josh was able to see it,” Brown said. “That takes a lot of trust. The guy had great coverage, and I was just able to come back to the ball. … Josh just made a perfect throw.”

 

(.....)  Give an unsung credit on the play to center Mitch Morse. He held off Jets star defensive tackle Leonard Williams with a lunging block just long enough for Allen to make the throw before Williams hit him.

 

[BillsFan692]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

Overall, I agree with you about PFF and their illogical hatred of Josh Allen.

It's only fair to note, however, that this article pertains to fantasy football. I wouldn't start Allen just yet in fantasy, either, based on yesterday's game.

Except he was on fire yesterday on Draft King and he got 20 pts which isnt the best but it could be worse....

 

Imagine if you picked a QB like Baker Mayfieldnfor fantasy on Sunday...

 

Yikes. I bet he came highly recommended from PFF hahaha

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

6 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

https://www.pff.com/news/fantasy-football-what-we-learned-week-1-2019

 

No comment on Singletary or the Defense, just hate on Josh Allen in both segments. 

 

Buffalo

What I think is real: Bad Josh Allen. He had two interceptions, two lost fumbles, and more mistakes that the Jets couldn’t capitalize on. He’s just not very good. … John Brown did what most of us thought Brown would do, scoring a long touchdown and leading the team in targets. He’ll be hit and miss, but the hits will be good.

What I don’t: Good Josh Allen. In the fourth quarter, he led two scoring drives to ultimately win the game, rushing for one touchdown and connecting with Brown on the game-winning score. But there is just too much that is a mess about his game right now.

4 turnovers......that is real

6 hours ago, VADC Bills said:

What bothers me about Josh Allen is that there is a Jay Cutler-ness about his game that I don't like. He needs good coaching.

Throws so much like him. He is "Cutler" that can run and cares about winning.

[The Wiz]

3 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

OR they're calling it like they see it.  4 turnovers is 4 turnovers.  There were a couple more that could have bounced the wrong way as well.

 

Josh does a lot of good things, but the bad is there for everyone to see.  Bills fans tend to take the "glass half full" approach, is all.  Fortunately for Josh, he redeemed himself in the 4th quarter. 

 

PFF is not wrong.

So what are they saying about Baker then?  

[Capco]

It's an article written in the context of fantasy football leagues.  Of course Josh didn't perform stellar on the stat sheet.  But he most certainly helped us get a W, and in the real world the W is the only thing that matters, not the stats.

 

This thread shouldn't be 5 pages long lol.  

[YoloinOhio]

Or not 

 

 

[GoBills808]

Pretty sure he outscored half the league in FF, and w/out some of the sack fumbles or fluke INTs he's pushing top10 territory...

[CincyBillsFan]

23 hours ago, Forward Progress said:

The analytics camp is most interested in proving that their method of statistical evaluation is correct.  That is the product that they sell to the market, so it is vital to the viability of their business that they consistently prove their model to be right.   

 

When you enter Josh's college stats into their model, it shows that it is statistically likely that a QB with Josh's stats will not have success at the NFL level.   Any commentary, regarding Josh's performance from the analytics community is biased, because they need to continue to promote their products and prove their model to be accurate.   In order to support their position, they will highlight every negative stat that they can from Josh's game (i.e. focus on the four turnovers and fully attribute them to Josh).

 

However, we have to admit that, as Bills' fans, we are also biased and desperately want to see the positives in our QB.  We will focus on the three scoring drives to win the game with our backs against the wall.  The truth is somewhere in between to two extreme views, but I'm happier on the positive side, so I will stay there.

 

 

 

 

 

This is exactly right.  I also think the analytics folks grossly overrate the predictive nature of their modeling.  The level of variability inherent in EVERY NFL pass play requires a HUGE sample size of plays to have any chance of the model being accurate.  This means that the analytics would expect to do poorly in evaluating QB's with less then 5 years of playing experience.

 

The other thing I would add is while the "truth" of Allen is somewhere between the two extremes it's a lot closer to what we fans see then what the analytics guys see.  Bills fans (at least the real ones) want Allen to succeed so they will engage in some level of confirmation bias.  I know I do.  However, the reality is that QB's entering their 2nd year in the NFL are almost ALWAYS a work in progress.  They will make mistakes and bone headed plays.  This is a given and especially true where a team like the Bills was rebuilding it's offense at the SAME time they brought in Allen.  No one can dispute that Mahomes & Jackson walked into much better situations then Allen, Rosen, Darnold and even Mayfielde did.

 

So we fans look for the positive.  We expect negative stuff to happen.  You can call it "confirmation bias" but we see 3 great throws followed by a bad throw as overall being good for a 2nd year guy in a way we wouldn't for a 7 year vet.  We fans also look for evidence that a young QB is IMPROVING and with Allen it's indisputable that he is. We fans also look at the intangibles (try mathematically modeling them) like leadership, competitiveness & the ability to learn.  Again Allen shows out very good here.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

..who really gives a rat's azz about some urinalist typing away from under the confines of his desk?....better to follow ex-players who offer critical analyses, both for and against.....after critical analyses, Allen favorables are Simms, Dilfer, Palmer and now QB Coach Dorsey....Baldy is another good one and MRob likes the Bills......Terrell Davis hates the Bills and is a constant knock......these guys are not afraid to give you a substantive analysis, albeit positive or negative and conclude their net assessment.....a urinalist?...seriously?.....post week 1 rankings range form 17 to 22.....which I think is about right for all of the offensive newness...

Edited September 10, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy