Would you trade a 1 for Zeke?

[mannc]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The league has to address the issue of contracts as it applies to running backs. Under the current system the backs are discriminated against because their life-span is shorter. In addition, as with the Lev'an (sic) Bell situation there are backs who make up a disproportionate part of the offense because they are central to the running and passing game. Although Zeke's current contract is in force it is not fair that the current standard of pay applies to him and the position. The fairest approach would be to make the backs first contract shorter than everyone else because their football life span is shorter. 

Actually, rookie contracts are currently better for drafted RBs than for other players because the amount they are paid is based upon where they are drafted, regardless of position.  This means that Saquon Barkley will be paid more on his rookie deal than Sam Darnold, even though Darnold's market value will FAR exceed Barkley's (assuming Darnold were to become a quality QB).  Thus, Barkley will be paid much closer to his actual market value on his rookie deal than Darnold will.  This is one of many reasons why teams should avoid drafting RBs in first round.    

Edited August 21, 2019 by mannc

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

3 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Can the regular season start?  Please?  Please?

wont be long now...

 

[BarleyNY]

Nope. No RB is worth a first much less a first and a huge contract.  Plus there’s his suspension history which could impact his availability.

 

Article on why RBs do not have high value

Edited August 21, 2019 by BarleyNY

[apuszczalowski]

I wouldn't trade a first only because if Dallas is willing to move him it's because they are desperate to do it and a good GM would take that into account in their offer and get him for less. If they were going to make the move, it would also have to involve moving another RB out

[Kirby Jackson]

29 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...strictly personal preference......he has two years left on his deal and thinks he's "entitled"...and he's been such a "good citizen (SERIOUSLY?)"...maybe I'm too old school, but I loathe that "it's me and I am bigger then the game" crap......put RG I 5/8 , Cam. and Kaep in THAT basket a s well as others...times are good and it's "ME"....a loss and teammates are "under the bus in a nanosecond"....eff them.....wanna see a class act (not one of your favs so noted)?...Josh Allen....humble, mindful and respectful of the game, realizing those who have paved the way to his financial opportunity.....perfect quote was, "this is OUR team and OUR family"...and willing to work his arse off on weaknesses to get better....

I guess that stuff doesn’t bother me at all. This isn’t competition to them; it is their career. I know in my career my entire focus is on my earnings. If there is an issue I take it to management. I’m going through it right now. We are in an earn out period right now and the window is 3 years. In a lot of ways it’s not terribly different than a RB. There is a period (the next 2 years and 2 months) where we can earn exponentially more than at any other time. You bet, that in this period, I’m making sure that I maximize every single dime. Zeke has 1 big contract left. He needs to protect himself and get what he can while he can. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

There is only a handful of players I'd ever want to see the Bills give up a first for, and they are all quarterbacks.

 

 

 

Glad we're not in the market for one. 

[FLFan]

Never.  Wrong position for a top end contract.  The first round choice is much more valuable to this team at this time than any running back.  

[mikemac2001]

Tough question 

 

talent = yes 

person = no 

 

but at the end of the day I want playmakers and talent even if I want to punch him in his face 

 

id make the move it’s worth it for 3-5 years 

[FLFan]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess that stuff doesn’t bother me at all. This isn’t competition to them; it is their career. I know in my career my entire focus is on my earnings. If there is an issue I take it to management. I’m going through it right now. We are in an earn out period right now and the window is 3 years. In a lot of ways it’s not terribly different than a RB. There is a period (the next 2 years and 2 months) where we can earn exponentially more than at any other time. You bet, that in this period, I’m making sure that I maximize every single dime. Zeke has 1 big contract left. He needs to protect himself and get what he can while he can. 

I agree and have no problem with Zeke playing this the way he is if he thinks it is in his best interest, although it would seem that Bell’s experience should be something of a cautionary note to these guys.  I simply do not believe that committing a first round draft choice and a huge contract to a RB is in the Bills best interest at this time.  It would be the wrong move. 

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

He's an amazing talent, but a 1st, plus an very expensive contract to go with a line that still isn't so good.  Don't think it makes sense. Any high picks or money the Bills spend should be on the OLine if anywhere.

 

I'm sure you meant unproven OL, right?

[Mike in Horseheads]

no

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

 

his ceiling is similar to andy daltons with regards to team performance. dalton is more accurate.

 

I'm not saying what Dak's worth contract wise, but side by side, I'll take Dak over Dalton.

[JohnC]

31 minutes ago, mannc said:

Actually, rookie contracts are currently better for drafted RBs than for other players because the amount they are paid is based upon where they are drafted, regardless of position.  This means that Saquon Barkley will be paid more on his rookie deal than Sam Darnold, even though Darnold's market value will FAR exceed Barkley's (assuming Darnold were to become a quality QB).  Thus, Barkley will be paid much closer to his actual market value on his rookie deal than Darnold will.  This is one of many reasons why teams should avoid drafting RBs in first round.    

The problem isn't the amount of money in the first. The issue is the length of the contract. If your lifespan as a player is shorter then it is not unreasonable for the expiration of the first contract should be sooner than the other positions. 

[3rdand12]

45 minutes ago, White Linen said:

100% absolutely not

101% absolutely not ever

fat stupid idiot with bad hair

32 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

I wouldn't trade a first only because if Dallas is willing to move him it's because they are desperate to do it and a good GM would take that into account in their offer and get him for less. If they were going to make the move, it would also have to involve moving another RB out

not for a 45th

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, Mark80 said:

I don't know what people's obsession for a first round pick is.  You can have a pick that has a 50/50 shot of being a bust basically or you can have a guaranteed stud.  If I can afford it, I'm taking the stud.  He's also at an optimal RB age to give a deal where you are not on the hook for much money after 3 or 4 years and you get 3 or 4 years of prime age performance.  He runs great, he blocks great, he catches balls great, he does it all.  Not to mention if the pick is a bust you are wasting millions in cap on a bad player.

I completely agree and have said this for years. it's insane to me that when a "prospect with potential" is drafted high it's worth it, but then a guy goes out and proves he's a stud, like Randy Moss, and he gets traded for a 4th, twice.

For every guy that turns into a superstar there's 10 guys that range between Aaron Maybins, Donte Whitner, Spiller, McCargo, etc. I would trade my first round pick for a superstar every single year, regardless of position as long as it didn't cause a cap problem.

 

And if a team wants to trade you an inexpensive proven vet for a 2nd 3rd, I'd do it every time.

Edited August 21, 2019 by BullBuchanan

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Yes, as long as they can unload Shady’s deal in the process.

I typically advocate drafting an RB where they took Singletary and avoid spending on the RB position.

That said, Zeke is a freak, at his peak; Buffalo has more than enough cap without a plethora of expiring contracts coming up. Extend Zeke for 4-5 years, front load it, that way when it comes time to extend White, there will be no issues and he will be off the books or close to it when Allen and Edmunds are due.

 

I would also pull the trigger on a Clowney trade for the same reasons (and would cost less draft equity), I welcome either (or both, obviously won’t happen). This team is extremely solid, an elite player or two could really take them to a whole nutha level.

[GoBills808]

28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess that stuff doesn’t bother me at all. This isn’t competition to them; it is their career. I know in my career my entire focus is on my earnings. If there is an issue I take it to management. I’m going through it right now. We are in an earn out period right now and the window is 3 years. In a lot of ways it’s not terribly different than a RB. There is a period (the next 2 years and 2 months) where we can earn exponentially more than at any other time. You bet, that in this period, I’m making sure that I maximize every single dime. Zeke has 1 big contract left. He needs to protect himself and get what he can while he can. 

Plus...Cowboys have a bad reputation for using up RBs, look at how they just destroyed DeMarco Murray (392 rushes his last year there?!?) and you realize they're doing the same thing w/ Elliot...they're running him almost 22 carries/game over his career. Every year he's been in the NFL he's averaged the most carrier per game...that takes a toll.

 

These guys aren't dumb. They saw the Steelers run Bell 321 times prior to him sitting out 2018 and everyone gave Bell a hard time but imo he was being smart. Because like Murray or Gordon or Gurley or Johnson it's pretty obvious what happens when you average a ton of carries over the course of a couple seasons- you get injured/worn out. It's like clockwork. The fact that the RB position is especially susceptible to injury/fatigue, combined with how devalued they've become in the draft, is what's pushing these guys to sit out or get paid. It's prudent. They get absolutely ridden into the ground if they're any good, they're cheap, and they're replaceable. They should try to get as much as they can by any means necessary imo.

[Don Otreply]

Adulting is hard for some..., and some of these prima donnas are just ?? crazy,  and not worth the ?  ⛈ that they bring along, jmo.

 

I will defer to Beane & McDermott, because they are fully tuned into the plus & minuses.

 

Go Bills!!!

[BillsfaninSB]

Yes.   I would do it.  Will Zeke make the Bills offense markedly better?   Of course he will.

 

Will next years first make the Bills better?  Who knows!

 

i think we can all agree the Bills are at least a border line playoff team right now.  Zeke would likely get us over the hump. 

 

Not a a hard decision for me. 

[RocCityRoller]

No, not a first.

 

A third and a conditional, all day.

 

Then trade Shady, Gore, Mr. Peanut and then the last guy who jumped through a table for picks.

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

101% absolutely not ever

fat stupid idiot with bad hair

 

 

He is an outstanding player but he can't stay out of at minimum being around trouble.  

 

I would never give a first and have to pay him as the highest paid RB.  

[HOF4LOU]

You don't need a RB to win a championship. OJ, Barry, Bo, Walter....doesn't matter.

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, White Linen said:

 

He is an outstanding player but he can't stay out of at minimum being around trouble.  

 

I would never give a first and have to pay him as the highest paid RB.  

 you may not have noticed my friend White

i want him nowhere near 1BD.

Because McBeanes , i can finally stand  on solid ground about Character matters to gain the privilege to be a Buffalo Bill

 

[Augie]

His own father said he wasn’t mentally and emotionally prepared to stand up to being an NFL star. It’s not the PLAYER that worries me. It’s the PERSON. A first round pick may be a crap shoot, but at least they are cheap on the cap. I LOVE his talent, but with him the gamble is OFF the field. Giving up the first AND the big payday sure would suck if he’s enough of a knucklehead to get in trouble again.

 

He should have kept his nose clean for a year, let the guys with ONE year left on their deals get done, THEN looked for the big deal. The fact that he couldn’t wait his turn concerns me in a couple ways. Jumping in line, and what happens when you pay him? 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Why, do we need good running backs?

[Putin]

3 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Absolutely not.  Got Shady for next to nothing, spent a lot of $$ on him and got nothing to show for it.  

 

Zeke is not a top 10 talent in the league - at best a top 5 RB.  Pass. 

Drugs are bad 

[3rdand12]

25 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

No, not a first.

 

A third and a conditional, all day.

 

Then trade Shady, Gore, Mr. Peanut and then the last guy who jumped through a table for picks.

what about the contract he would demand ?

5 minutes ago, Putin said:

Drugs are bad 

depends on the drugs.

 on the other hand everyone gets an opinion or two.

the quality,  and or resonance of that opinion is subjective

[bmur66]

No way. Draft a back in the first and have a rookie contract.

[The Plastic Cup]

I’d trade #2 for that headache and contract.

[JK Fan]

Only if the Dallas offensive line comes with him.  Otherwise I say pass.

 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

Sometimes the talent isn’t worth the trouble or the cap space. If he were an adult, then probably at the right price. But he seems to struggle with adulthood. 

 

At running back I already have a hard time paying ELITE dollars but can talk myself into it. But to add that risk of cap space to risk of injury and multiply it by rolling in a 1st rounder... AND further risk with character.

 

as good as he is, and as free wheeling as I think we should be with assets at this crossroads....he would test my willingness to push risk vs reward

Edited August 22, 2019 by NoSaint

[RocCityRoller]

14 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

what about the contract he would demand ?

depends on the drugs.

 on the other hand everyone gets an opinion or two.

the quality,  and or resonance of that opinion is subjective

 

Extending the contract for Mr. Peanut? Good luck.

 

I hear he is SALTY!

[3rdand12]

1 minute ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

Extending the contract for Mr. Peanut? Good luck.

 

I hear he is SALTY!

okay you win !

 

LOL  thanks Roc

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If they were to make a deal for Zeke they would have a star. They could turn around and trade Shady for a late round pick (say a 5th). The Bills have the most cap space in the league next year so Zeke’s contract is no issue. You’d take your 2nd round pick and something else to move up into the late 1st or early 2nd. There are potentially 6 WRs going in the 1st next year. It’s one of the great WR drafts ever. You can get a guy at 35(ish) that would have went 18 in most drafts. You can still get a number 1 caliber WR (and this is coming from someone that thinks that’s the Bills biggest need). 

Shady is a lot better than he looked last season, when he was being hit five yards behind the LOS every other play (seriously) - a function of a historically bad line and an abysmal passing attack. Evaluations of his play last season by pundits were SO stupid. On passing plays, he pretty much showed that he was still the same elusive, fast player as he ever was. He has been an elite, HOF-level RB up until now, and assuming that opponents aren’t able to send 8 against him every time he’s on the field this season (and assuming that a woeful line gets a lot better), I expect a real rebound in 2019. Assuming I’m right (admittedly, a big assumption), Elliott ain’t that much of an upgrade (if an upgrade at all) over what the Bills currently have.

[Alphadawg7]

Zeke from a talent perspective is worth a first rounder in trade.  He is also worth the money he is seeking.

 

That being said, I would not trade for him.  We already have a talented and deep RB room.  There is more than one way to be a top 5 rushing team...with a bell cow guy like Zeke, or with a talented committee.  I think we can be a top 5 rushing team with the guys we have assuming the OL comes together like we expect.  

 

Save the draft pick, save the cap space.  Draft one next year if we need more help.  

[LSHMEAB]

No way in HE@@. The only backs in the league MAYBE worth that investment are Gurley and Barkely. And I'm not personally giving up a first for either. Zeke is relatively young, but he's already got some tread on the tires. As good as he is, I want a game breaker for that type of investment. The position just isn't as valuable as it once was and the best years you're likely to get are the first 5. No chance.

 

 

[ALLEN1QB]

I just dropped a deuce that I would trade for him

[formerlyofCtown]

No.  A team guy accepts that the option he agreed to was picked up.  We need team guys here.

[Just Joshin']

Good question and a tough choice.

 

I am landing on no.  It is less the number 1 pick than the cost vs a replacement.  For 10% of the cost you can get 65% of the production.  Use that money for premier players at critical positions.  The ROI is not there.

[H2o]

11 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

No way in HE@@. The only backs in the league MAYBE worth that investment are Gurley and Barkely. And I'm not personally giving up a first for either. Zeke is relatively young, but he's already got some tread on the tires. As good as he is, I want a game breaker for that type of investment. The position just isn't as valuable as it once was and the best years you're likely to get are the first 5. No chance.

 

 

Pssshhh, I'd give up a first for Barkley in a heartbeat. Gurley though? Hell no. He's Terrell Davis all over again. I'd give up a first for Zeke if I thought he was the missing piece to a championship. Sadly, he is not though. Then you have to give him 45 mill guaranteed at least. I could see him going to Houston, Tampa, GB, or Seattle though.