The impending question mark/void on our team NEXT offseason

[transplantbillsfan]

DE/"Edge Rusher"

 

Jerry Hughes is still an absolute wrecking ball, but his contract is up this off-season, he turns 31 in August, and there might be some question marks over whether he's really a "McDermott guy" character wise considering how prone he is to getting flagged for 15 yards. The Bills only have 5 guys remaining on the team from before McDermott arrived and Hughes will still be considered in the prime of his career as the season ends, even if it's the back end of his prime. Should Beane and McDermott give Hughes the big contract this offseason? I think they should. Will they? 

 

Lorenzo Alexander isn't a DE, but I think he qualifies as "Edge Rusher." McDermott clearly loves the guy, so I could easily see another one year contract next season if he's still producing on the field, but that's definitely a question mark because of his age.

 

Shaq Lawson hasn't been a bust, but he's really been a disappointment for where he was drafted and expectations coming in. Last year wad his best year so far, but with just a month left to decide on whether we pick up his 5th year option, Beane said he hasn't decided:

 

I don't think they pick it up.

 

That's 3 more guys from before McDermott arrived potentially gone and all 3 playing similar positions.

 

So... do we keep one, two or all of these guys or do we go into NEXT year's draft with the glaring DE/Edge Rusher need?

[Reed83HOF]

It's a good question, fact is elite pass rushers do not reach FA very often. We also only have 2 players now under contract for the DL in 2020 - regardless it is a big need.

 

This is a topic I definitely want to and plan on pondering, but I'm looking at our roster right now and looking at who sticks on OL/WR. D is pretty set with the exception of CB2

Edited April 28, 2019 by Reed83HOF

[Buffalo_Stampede]

They will likely sign Hughes before the season. 

[NoSaint]

Define “big contract” for Hughes 

 

thats where it it all starts, right? I assume we’d all keep him for peanuts, but where does each of us reach our max. I’m not sure but think that’s the much more productive way to have the discussion 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Someone explain the downside of picking up Lawson's option?  Since the shoulder injury he has not had any career threatening injuries. They will have a ton of cap space either way.  He is solidly above average against the run. Lined up next to Oliver he might be a bit better in rushing the passer this year.  He rarely is beaten to the outside. He hustles and doesn't seem to take plays off like Star.  Has not been a liability in terms of penalties that I recall.  Honestly other than being chosen by Whaley what has he done or not done that Beane would not pick up the option?

 

As to the OP premise, I agree edge is the biggest need. It was the biggest need this year, that is why I wanted Allen.  An inside pass rush from Oliver would be great.  I hope he pans out. But if he most compares to Aaron Donald, well he disappeared in the playoffs and was completely neutralized by the Patriots.  That said, with today's NFL offenses, I'm not sure there are a lot of pass plays that even allow the time for an edge rusher to get home.  And pushing the pocket up the middle does force the QB to move and that byes the DE or OLB a bit more time.  

 

I would pick up the Lawson option, and target OLB in FA or draft next year.  In today's defense the 4-3 Strong side OLB is really a hybrid guy.  He needs to play up in the base defense and move to DE in the nickel or dime packages.  He needs to be stout enough in the run especially against teams that have quality TE's than can run the ball effectively out of a 3 or 4 WR set.  Hard to find, but they are out there.  Allen or Sweat woudl have been great fits.  

 

But I'm down with the Oliver pick now.  Hope his "first step" is better than Maybin's famed first step.  

[HappyDays]

I'm keeping an eye on Clowney. Even if we don't trade for him this year he is a free agent next year. I was surprised we didn't go after an edge rusher early in this year's draft, and I wonder if we already have a plan in place. Maybe they feel good about Ansah.

[purple haze]

They should extend Hughes before this season.  Two more years with a good portion of gauranteed money involved.  I believe he gets nine million a year now, shouldn't be much more than that.  But he is still very effective.

[nucci]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

DE/"Edge Rusher"

 

Jerry Hughes is still an absolute wrecking ball, but his contract is up this off-season, he turns 31 in August, and there might be some question marks over whether he's really a "McDermott guy" character wise considering how prone he is to getting flagged for 15 yards. The Bills only have 5 guys remaining on the team from before McDermott arrived and Hughes will still be considered in the prime of his career as the season ends, even if it's the back end of his prime. Should Beane and McDermott give Hughes the big contract this offseason? I think they should. Will they? 

 

Lorenzo Alexander isn't a DE, but I think he qualifies as "Edge Rusher." McDermott clearly loves the guy, so I could easily see another one year contract next season if he's still producing on the field, but that's definitely a question mark because of his age.

 

Shaq Lawson hasn't been a bust, but he's really been a disappointment for where he was drafted and expectations coming in. Last year wad his best year so far, but with just a month left to decide on whether we pick up his 5th year option, Beane said he hasn't decided:

 

I don't think they pick it up.

 

That's 3 more guys from before McDermott arrived potentially gone and all 3 playing similar positions.

 

So... do we keep one, two or all of these guys or do we go into NEXT year's draft with the glaring DE/Edge Rusher need?

Give this a rest, please....he was our best defensive player last year

[GreggTX]

Unless Hughes regresses this year, I'd like to keep him. Add an even better DE on the other side and add a gamebreaker at both WR and RB. I'll have to see how much better Levi Wallace can get in year 2 before committing to a new CB. We pretty much know that EJ Gaines is an average CB and excellent depth.

[JoPar_v2]

Ah yes “Mcdermott guys”...which is why they tried to get Antonio Brown ? If people still believe that BS I am worried.

[Rk_Bills86]

Honestly, Hughs could just be given 2-year contracts at the same amount he's been earning (I think an average of 9 Million a year?)

[transplantbillsfan]

39 minutes ago, nucci said:

Give this a rest, please....he was our best defensive player last year

 

Give what a rest?

 

I said Hughes was an absolute beast and should be resigned, I just don’t know if McBeane will.

 

No need to get triggered so quickly about something that’s been a valid criticism of Hughes from day 1 in Buffalo.

2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:

They will likely sign Hughes before the season. 

 

I hope this is what happens.

[The Jokeman]

Hughes is still in his early thirties and he seems to be a locker room guy that we should be able to re-sign. Ziggy could be added on a long contract or we could go hard at someone in UFA next year as still have plenty of cap room. Bigger need might be starting RB but might be able use a 1st Rounder on that.

[Victory Formation]

Well, I think the biggest question will be whether or not Beane and McD are here. We're 3 years deep, time to win. Playoffs or bust. Is our roster where it should be going into the 2019?

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Define “big contract” for Hughes 

 

thats where it it all starts, right? I assume we’d all keep him for peanuts, but where does each of us reach our max. I’m not sure but think that’s the much more productive way to have the discussion 

He's on the wrong side of 30, which is why I'd love to trade for Clowney. That would give us the flexibility to pass on Hughes if the price tag is too high. As far as I'm concerned, even Hughes is not enough. I think they need to sign Ansah or make a move.

 

This indeed remains an area of concern going into next season. Oliver was a great pick and I believe he will bring heat from the interior. I'm not convinced there will be enough pressure coming from the edge. A stout defense is nice, but a defense wreaking havoc on the QB is the best way to create turnovers and turn 2nd and 6 into 3rd and 16. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

DE/"Edge Rusher"

 

Jerry Hughes is still an absolute wrecking ball, but his contract is up this off-season, he turns 31 in August, and there might be some question marks over whether he's really a "McDermott guy" character wise considering how prone he is to getting flagged for 15 yards. The Bills only have 5 guys remaining on the team from before McDermott arrived and Hughes will still be considered in the prime of his career as the season ends, even if it's the back end of his prime. Should Beane and McDermott give Hughes the big contract this offseason? I think they should. Will they? 

 

Lorenzo Alexander isn't a DE, but I think he qualifies as "Edge Rusher." McDermott clearly loves the guy, so I could easily see another one year contract next season if he's still producing on the field, but that's definitely a question mark because of his age.

 

Shaq Lawson hasn't been a bust, but he's really been a disappointment for where he was drafted and expectations coming in. Last year wad his best year so far, but with just a month left to decide on whether we pick up his 5th year option, Beane said he hasn't decided:

 

I don't think they pick it up.

 

That's 3 more guys from before McDermott arrived potentially gone and all 3 playing similar positions.

 

So... do we keep one, two or all of these guys or do we go into NEXT year's draft with the glaring DE/Edge Rusher need?

 

 

Assuming Hughes has a good to decent season, can't see him then agreeing to a one year deal, why would he if other teams will sign him for two or three years?  He's not that old that with another good season behind him some team will give him a better than one year deal.

 

So what would be the impact of signing the 5th year option for Lawson, and then turn around next Feb and cut him.  Thought I read a couple months back that was an option?  Is there a cap hit to do that?  And how much of a hit?

[NewEra]

Resign Jerry

 

lorax has said this is his last season.  So we’re at his mercy.

 

I doubt Shaq will ever be worth 10+ mill a year.  

 

[dwight in philly]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

They should extend Hughes before this season.  Two more years with a good portion of gauranteed money involved.  I believe he gets nine million a year now, shouldn't be much more than that.  But he is still very effective.

Hughes frustrates the heck out of me , as im sure he does everybody..with the personal foul stuff ,   but love the attitude and more important his play.

[FLFan]

14 minutes ago, dwight in philly said:

Hughes frustrates the heck out of me , as im sure he does everybody..with the personal foul stuff ,   but love the attitude and more important his play.

Hughes had 0 enforced personal fouls last year.  https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties-player.html?tm=4&sort=other

[formerlyofCtown]

4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

DE/"Edge Rusher"

 

Jerry Hughes is still an absolute wrecking ball, but his contract is up this off-season, he turns 31 in August, and there might be some question marks over whether he's really a "McDermott guy" character wise considering how prone he is to getting flagged for 15 yards. The Bills only have 5 guys remaining on the team from before McDermott arrived and Hughes will still be considered in the prime of his career as the season ends, even if it's the back end of his prime. Should Beane and McDermott give Hughes the big contract this offseason? I think they should. Will they? 

 

Lorenzo Alexander isn't a DE, but I think he qualifies as "Edge Rusher." McDermott clearly loves the guy, so I could easily see another one year contract next season if he's still producing on the field, but that's definitely a question mark because of his age.

 

Shaq Lawson hasn't been a bust, but he's really been a disappointment for where he was drafted and expectations coming in. Last year wad his best year so far, but with just a month left to decide on whether we pick up his 5th year option, Beane said he hasn't decided:

 

I don't think they pick it up.

 

That's 3 more guys from before McDermott arrived potentially gone and all 3 playing similar positions.

 

So... do we keep one, two or all of these guys or do we go into NEXT year's draft with the glaring DE/Edge Rusher need?

Jerry Hughes will be extended by mid-season.

Edited April 28, 2019 by formerlyofCtown

[thunderingsquid]

Yes edge and olb are the top priorities imho unless there is a glaring oline problem or skill position problem.

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Ah yes “Mcdermott guys”...which is why they tried to get Antonio Brown ? If people still believe that BS I am worried.

 

 

Jerry is s high motor intense player. I think while he is not a Boy Scout 100% of the time he fits the mold for McDermott in terms of production and hustle. 

 

We also tend to not look at how guys are the rest of the week. It is my understanding Hughes is a person who prepares and practices hard. 

 

I hope the sign him to an an extension before the season starts. 

[BuffaloRebound]

I think a motivated contract-year Lawson is worth taking a shot on.  Unless I’m mistaken, the 5th year option is only guaranteed for injury.  Bills have the cap space to eat $10m next year if Lawson sustains an injury.  And Bills still control him another year if he has a break out year.  So I’d extend Hughes and exercise Lawson’s option.  Ansah would be a Murphy replacement.  

[TigerJ]

Jerry Hughes is certainly and intense player, and that results in an occasional penalty, but I don't think that makes him less of a McDermott type player.  An extension is going to come down to cost versus anticipated production.  Some people thought Buffalo should have drafted an edge rusher fairly high in the just completed draft.  Since they didn't, it puts off dealing with a possible vacuum at the position for the time being.  Buffalo did sign a value free agent at edge rusher in Eli Harold.  Harold is a little on the light side, but he does have  some potential, and he's still young at 25.  Then, of course, there is Darryl Johnson, the draft pick.  He's very raw, coming from a division 2 school, but he's got some nice physical traits and dominated that level of competition. He's not going to do much this year, but maybe in 2020, he'll be ready to make some noise.  I fully expect and edge rusher to get drafted next year.  

[JoPar_v2]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

Jerry is s high motor intense player. I think while he is not a Boy Scout 100% of the time he fits the mold for McDermott in terms of production and hustle. 

 

We also tend to not look at how guys are the rest of the week. It is my understanding Hughes is a person who prepares and practices hard. 

 

I hope the sign him to an an extension before the season starts. 

 

I agree with all this. Which is why even if there was such things like “McDermott guys” as OP claims (which there isn’t) Jerry would definitely qualify. Yeah he gets some dumb penalties. They aren’t bush penalties though. They are penalties bourne out of passion. He’s not Vontaze Burfict for god’s sake.

 

he’s the most underrated edge rusher in the league.

[JoPar_v2]

6 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Jerry Hughes is certainly and intense player, and that results in an occasional penalty, but I don't think that makes him less of a McDermott type player.  An extension is going to come down to cost versus anticipated production.  Some people thought Buffalo should have drafted an edge rusher fairly high in the just completed draft.  Since they didn't, it puts off dealing with a possible vacuum at the position for the time being.  Buffalo did sign a value free agent at edge rusher in Eli Harold.  Harold is a little on the light side, but he does have  some potential, and he's still young at 25.  Then, of course, there is Darryl Johnson, the draft pick.  He's very raw, coming from a division 2 school, but he's got some nice physical traits and dominated that level of competition. He's not going to do much this year, but maybe in 2020, he'll be ready to make some noise.  I fully expect and edge rusher to get drafted next year.  

 

You’ve made the same point I was trying to but said it better. Again I don’t think a “mcdermott guy” is a thing, beyond a guy that fits in his scheme and can help win games. And that’s all I wan’t anyways.

 

All of this nonsense in the OP’s original post is just that: nonsense. 

 

You know what “culture” is, as it relates to football teams and football coaches in particular? It’s not a philosophy, it’s not a mandate. It’s a tactic. It’s a slugline. It’s a cheap and easy way to lure rubes in to supporting you before you’ve ever proven anything. 

 

“Culture” is what unproven football coaches have relied on since the dawn of football to attract support from the fanbases susceptible to it. Those moralizing, hypocritical, old-timey fanbases (think Penn State). Unfortunately we’re still one of those. That’s painfully clear based solely on what some of you post around here.

Edited April 29, 2019 by JoPar_v2

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Still WR and DE, could be Oline  have to see.

 

 

[CSBill]

14 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Someone explain the downside of picking up Lawson's option?  Since the shoulder injury he has not had any career threatening injuries. They will have a ton of cap space either way.  He is solidly above average against the run. Lined up next to Oliver he might be a bit better in rushing the passer this year.  He rarely is beaten to the outside. He hustles and doesn't seem to take plays off like Star.  Has not been a liability in terms of penalties that I recall.  Honestly other than being chosen by Whaley what has he done or not done that Beane would not pick up the option?

 

As to the OP premise, I agree edge is the biggest need. It was the biggest need this year, that is why I wanted Allen.  An inside pass rush from Oliver would be great.  I hope he pans out. But if he most compares to Aaron Donald, well he disappeared in the playoffs and was completely neutralized by the Patriots.  That said, with today's NFL offenses, I'm not sure there are a lot of pass plays that even allow the time for an edge rusher to get home.  And pushing the pocket up the middle does force the QB to move and that byes the DE or OLB a bit more time.  

 

I would pick up the Lawson option, and target OLB in FA or draft next year.  In today's defense the 4-3 Strong side OLB is really a hybrid guy.  He needs to play up in the base defense and move to DE in the nickel or dime packages.  He needs to be stout enough in the run especially against teams that have quality TE's than can run the ball effectively out of a 3 or 4 WR set.  Hard to find, but they are out there.  Allen or Sweat woudl have been great fits.  

 

But I'm down with the Oliver pick now.  Hope his "first step" is better than Maybin's famed first step.  

 

This is where I'm at. I do not see the reason to not pick up his option year. He has been productive, it is certainly affordable, and he seems to be improving each year. Why would they not?

[billsbackto81]

13 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Unless Hughes regresses this year, I'd like to keep him. 

 

12 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

He's on the wrong side of 30, which is why I'd love to trade for Clowney. 

 

This indeed remains an area of concern going into next season. Oliver was a great pick 

I don't like the idea of trading for Clowney. IMO he has not lived up to his draft status and though he's a decent pass rusher I don't feel he's deserving of an elite contract. He strikes me as someone who will mail it in once he gets paid.  I think the presence of Oliver will greatly help Hughes and Lawson this season.

[transplantbillsfan]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

Still WR and DE, could be Oline  have to see.

 

 

 

As it stands DE is the only one we absolutely must take action on.

 

WR & OL are really TBD based on what we see this year. I think our WR corps might be set going into the 2020 season.

[mjt328]

My guess is that Shaq Lawson gets the 5th Year Option.  It's only a one-year extension, at a pretty reasonable price ($14 million).  With our extensive cap space in 2020, that amount won't cause us any limitations in upgrading the rest of the roster.  He's also shown gradual improvement at a premium position.  I think it's a low-risk/high-reward.

 

Unless Jerry Hughes falls off a cliff this season, I also expect him to get an extension of 1-2 years.  He's easily our best pass rusher, and not a player who would be easily replaceable.  At his age, we may be able to get him at a discounted number from what we are currently paying.

 

Pass Rush is certainly something for Beane to consider adding more bodies to the rotation.  But it's not terribly pressing.  Both of these extensions are very realistic, and would give us until 2021-2022 before the position became a glaring problem.

 

[oldmanfan]

11 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said:

 

You’ve made the same point I was trying to but said it better. Again I don’t think a “mcdermott guy” is a thing, beyond a guy that fits in his scheme and can help win games. And that’s all I wan’t anyways.

 

All of this nonsense in the OP’s original post is just that: nonsense. 

 

You know what “culture” is, as it relates to football teams and football coaches in particular? It’s not a philosophy, it’s not a mandate. It’s a tactic. It’s a slugline. It’s a cheap and easy way to lure rubes in to supporting you before you’ve ever proven anything. 

 

“Culture” is what unproven football coaches have relied on since the dawn of football to attract support from the fanbases susceptible to it. Those moralizing, hypocritical, old-timey fanbases (think Penn State). Unfortunately we’re still one of those. That’s painfully clear based solely on what some of you post around here.

Find me any successful business, organization, team, etc., etc. that does not have a well defined culture.

[BullBuchanan]

They should approach DE next season like they approached OL this season. Bring in 6 of em and draft a couple and see who shakes out. I have a strong feeling Murphy won't be a part of that plan, and at his price, probably not lawson either.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

56 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

As it stands DE is the only one we absolutely must take action on.

 

WR & OL are really TBD based on what we see this year. I think our WR corps might be set going into the 2020 season.

 

Maybe, just dont see a true number one WR on this team.

 

 

[dwight in philly]

20 hours ago, FLFan said:

Hughes had 0 enforced personal fouls last year.  https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties-player.html?tm=4&sort=other

ok.. guess i stand corrected .. just remember him getting flagged a bit, obviously up to last year. 

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Maybe, just dont see a true number one WR on this team.

 

 

 

Eh, you don't really need a true number one WR nowadays in the NFL, as long as the rest of your WRs are decent.

 

With the addition of Brown and Beasly and Foster coming on strong in the 2nd half of the season last year, I think our WR group might end up being pretty good.  Hopefully Jones gets better, too.  Beane sure seems to have a good deal of confidence in him.

[blacklabel]

If Hughes still has gas left in the tank at the end of this season, I wouldn't doubt that they offer him a nice, short-term deal (one, two, maybe three years) and then if he plays out that deal and still wants to play, maybe that's what they keep doing. Kind of how they worked Kyle's contracts over his last few years here.

[oldmanfan]

I don't think our DEs will be finalized on the roster till the week before the season opener.

[John from Riverside]

I honestly need to see how a couple of players play this year before identifying this.

 

For instance.....Spain is on a one year.....does he play well enough that we extend him?

 

This next draft is supposed to be deep in skill positions......do we go there and pluck our players much the same way DL was the position this year and we took Oliver?

[formerlyofCtown]

10 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

 

I don't like the idea of trading for Clowney. IMO he has not lived up to his draft status and though he's a decent pass rusher I don't feel he's deserving of an elite contract. He strikes me as someone who will mail it in once he gets paid.  I think the presence of Oliver will greatly help Hughes and Lawson this season.

Pressure up the middle will break the pocket and a lot of Hughes pressures will become sacks.  I believe he will have double digits this season.