Is Quinnen Williams the next Dareus?

[TC in St. Louis]

I'm terrified that this has already been discussed.  

A few years ago, we had the third pick in the draft, and selected Marcel Dareus.  Here are the other players chosen at the top of that round:  Cam Newton, Von Miller, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones.  JJ Watt was drafted #11.  

 

Dareus was a monster talent with an inconsistent effort.  Dareus was handed a 100 million dollar contract, and a couple years later was traded.  Never lived up to his draft position or his contract.  

 

He went to Alabama, surrounded by 5 star talent.  Same as Q. Williams.  Sometimes I think the backups at Alabama turn out better than the starters.  We have 2 of them.  Levi Wallace and Robert Foster.

 

Alabama is the Duke/Kentucky of football.  The bench players would become stars at Missouri or Arkansas or Boston College.  

 

I guess this is two threads.  Although Q. Williams may seem to be the most dominant DL in the draft, because he is from Alabama he might not be all that.  Reminds me of Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson.....stars at top programs and not stars in pro football.

 

Give me Ed Oliver, Josh Allen, or Montez Sweat.  

[Logic]

The good news is that at pick 9, I doubt he'll be the Bills' problem to worry about!

[2003Contenders]

They were both stud defensive linemen coming out of Alabama. The similarities end there.

 

Dareus had some focus/maturity issues even before his contract extension.

[Gugny]

I know I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I think Dareus earned his money whilst in Buffalo.

[billsbackto81]

5 minutes ago, 2003Contenders said:

They were both stud defensive linemen coming out of Alabama. The similarities end there.

 

Dareus had some focus/maturity issues even before his contract extension.

Dareus is the pro I've seen most compared to Williams by many pundits.

 

Oliver because of similar size and attributes has been compared to a John Randle type. 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 4/8/2019 at 12:02 PM, TC in St. Louis said:

I'm terrified that this has already been discussed.  

A few years ago, we had the third pick in the draft, and selected Marcel Dareus.  Here are the other players chosen at the top of that round:  Cam Newton, Von Miller, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones.  JJ Watt was drafted #11.  

 

Dareus was a monster talent with an inconsistent effort.  Dareus was handed a 100 million dollar contract, and a couple years later was traded.  Never lived up to his draft position or his contract.  

 

He went to Alabama, surrounded by 5 star talent.  Same as Q. Williams.  Sometimes I think the backups at Alabama turn out better than the starters.  We have 2 of them.  Levi Wallace and Robert Foster.

 

Alabama is the Duke/Kentucky of football.  The bench players would become stars at Missouri or Arkansas or Boston College.  

 

I guess this is two threads.  Although Q. Williams may seem to be the most dominant DL in the draft, because he is from Alabama he might not be all that.  Reminds me of Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson.....stars at top programs and not stars in pro football.

 

Give me Ed Oliver, Josh Allen, or Montez Sweat.  

 

Dareus was absolutely a star in pro football while he was on his rookie deal. He just seemed to become less motivated after 95 mil. Also he was schematically marginalized by Wrecks. 

 

Edit: So so I guess it could’ve happen to the collage kid from Houston  too.  But that seems different somehow 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood
Realization

[RyanC883]

I'd take Oliver over Williams.  I think he'll be a better pro, and continually faced double and triple teams.  Now, there is the issue that he went up against worse talent than Williams. 

 

But I do not think Williams will be the "bust" Dareus was.  Marcell was good his first year, then got lazy, and had issues pre-draft.  Williams does not have those issues.  I think both Williams and Oliver will be great, with the slight edge to Oliver--who could be going #1 if not for an injury this year. 

[Victory Formation]

Don't think so. His mom died and he still dominated. Wouldn't hesitate to take him. I think he's arguably the best player in the draft, certainly top 3. Bosa and Allen are incredible but so is QW.

[John from Riverside]

He will not be there at 9

[Jauronimo]

33 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

I'm terrified that this has already been discussed.  

A few years ago, we had the third pick in the draft, and selected Marcel Dareus.  Here are the other players chosen at the top of that round:  Cam Newton, Von Miller, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones.  JJ Watt was drafted #11.  

 

Dareus was a monster talent with an inconsistent effort.  Dareus was handed a 100 million dollar contract, and a couple years later was traded.  Never lived up to his draft position or his contract.  

 

He went to Alabama, surrounded by 5 star talent.  Same as Q. Williams.  Sometimes I think the backups at Alabama turn out better than the starters.  We have 2 of them.  Levi Wallace and Robert Foster.

 

Alabama is the Duke/Kentucky of football.  The bench players would become stars at Missouri or Arkansas or Boston College.  

 

I guess this is two threads.  Although Q. Williams may seem to be the most dominant DL in the draft, because he is from Alabama he might not be all that.  Reminds me of Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson.....stars at top programs and not stars in pro football.

 

Give me Ed Oliver, Josh Allen, or Montez Sweat.  

Is there any reason whatsoever to think Q. Williams will be a monster on his rookie deal, get a big money contract poorly structured with regard to personal conduct, then struggle due to a combination of family tragedy, immaturity, and an unfavorable scheme resulting in him being traded for peanuts?

[glazeduck]

8 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Don't think so. His mom died and he still dominated. Wouldn't hesitate to take him. I think he's arguably the best player in the draft, certainly top 3. Bosa and Allen are incredible but so is QW.

A lot of respected NFL people think he's the best DT to come out since Warren Sapp...

 

But sure, let's take an undersized DT who struggled to dominate in the AAC...

[Augie]

28 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I know I'm in the minority with this opinion, but I think Dareus earned his money whilst in Buffalo.

 

You are correct.

 

You are indeed in the minority.  

 

 

?

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, glazeduck said:

A lot of respected NFL people think he's the best DT to come out since Warren Sapp...

 

But sure, let's take an undersized DT who struggled to dominate in the AAC...

I like them both. Wouldn't hesitate for either but deep down I want Hock, Taylor, Jonah or Marquise. Play with the position in which we take them as you wish, but those are the top guys I like.... My .01$.

[DrDawkinstein]

Ive said in other threads that Rashan Gary is the one who reminds me of Dareus, attitude-wise, and at least Dareus had college production to back up his pick.

 

Watching Amazon's All or Nothing series on Michigan Football, Gary came off as an unmotivated player who could be distracted at the drop of a hat.

 

[glazeduck]

1 minute ago, NewDayBills said:

I like them both. Wouldn't hesitate for either but deep down I want Hock, Taylor, Jonah or Marquise. Play with the position in which we take them as you wish, but those are the top guys I like.... My .01$.

I like a lot of those guys too...

 

I think we're starting to see why the Bills better hope QBs go early. We're in a little bit of no-man's land at 9 if they don't...

 

It's unequivocally too early for Hock or any TE -- same with Marquise, or likely any WR -- Taylor might be gone, Jonah might be a guard (which we no longer need as desperately)...

 

If QBs go early, I think there's a distinct chance that Quinnen could fall far enough that he'd be gettable without throwing in the kitchen sink.

 

If they don't, I'm definitely down with the idea of trading down, if not, I'm starting to embrace the idea of swinging for the fences... Sweat or DK should be there and at that point, probably pose the biggest potential impact on the roster going forward...

[Toesy]

Another thing is that Dareus had serious weight problems-at one point he had a giant gut and looked to be over 350 for sure (way over his listed weight)-he lost agility and speed naturally because of this. People forget that these college players are very young guys and some of them have way out of whack metabolisms which naturally get worse as they get older-even while working out like crazy they are always close to becoming really fat almost overnight.    

[Buffalo Barbarian]

46 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

I'm terrified that this has already been discussed.  

A few years ago, we had the third pick in the draft, and selected Marcel Dareus.  Here are the other players chosen at the top of that round:  Cam Newton, Von Miller, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones.  JJ Watt was drafted #11.  

 

Dareus was a monster talent with an inconsistent effort.  Dareus was handed a 100 million dollar contract, and a couple years later was traded.  Never lived up to his draft position or his contract.  

 

He went to Alabama, surrounded by 5 star talent.  Same as Q. Williams.  Sometimes I think the backups at Alabama turn out better than the starters.  We have 2 of them.  Levi Wallace and Robert Foster.

 

Alabama is the Duke/Kentucky of football.  The bench players would become stars at Missouri or Arkansas or Boston College.  

 

I guess this is two threads.  Although Q. Williams may seem to be the most dominant DL in the draft, because he is from Alabama he might not be all that.  Reminds me of Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson.....stars at top programs and not stars in pro football.

 

Give me Ed Oliver, Josh Allen, or Montez Sweat.  

 

Williams was a backup until this year and then he exploded. Dareus could have been a great player he just lacked the motivation to put in that kind of effort.

 

Dont know about Williams personality enough to know how dedicated he is but he can flat out play, and if we draft him im sure McD feels he fits our culture.

 

 

[Victory Formation]

2 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

I like a lot of those guys too...

 

I think we're starting to see why the Bills better hope QBs go early. We're in a little bit of no-man's land at 9 if they don't...

 

It's unequivocally too early for Hock or any TE -- same with Marquise, or likely any WR -- Taylor might be gone, Jonah might be a guard (which we no longer need as desperately)...

 

If QBs go early, I think there's a distinct chance that Quinnen could fall far enough that he'd be gettable without throwing in the kitchen sink.

 

If they don't, I'm definitely down with the idea of trading down, if not, I'm starting to embrace the idea of swinging for the fences... Sweat or DK should be there and at that point, probably pose the biggest potential impact on the roster going forward...

Well, I adore Hockenson. I think he is a superb TE. One of the best I've seen since following the draft. There's a chance he goes before 9. He is likely a 1,000 yard guy.

[Mat68]

A motivated Darues was special.  Things happend on and off the field that has kept him from matching that form again.  He didn't get a 100 mil contract because Whaley wanted to burn money.  Years 2, 3, 4 he was a fantastic player.  No way to tell how a 25 year old man will handle 20 mil checks.

[hjnick]

I think QW looks better as a prospect than when Darius came out.  QW collapses the pocket.

[glazeduck]

5 minutes ago, NewDayBills said:

Well, I adore Hockenson. I think he is a superb TE. One of the best I've seen since following the draft. There's a chance he goes before 9. He is likely a 1,000 yard guy.

 

That all may be true, and I like Hock too, but this team is still too devoid of talent to use a top-10 pick on at TE that's not an obvious Lebron James type player. Especially in a draft when 3rd and 4th rd TEs will be starters in the league -- the delta between Hock and, say, Warring or Oliver doesn't warrant that kind of overspend, in my opinion. 

[billsfan1959]

23 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Is there any reason whatsoever to think Q. Williams will be a monster on his rookie deal, get a big money contract poorly structured with regard to personal conduct, then struggle due to a combination of family tragedy, immaturity, and an unfavorable scheme resulting in him being traded for peanuts?

So, we can put you down as a "no?"

[Coach Tuesday]

32 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Is there any reason whatsoever to think Q. Williams will be a monster on his rookie deal, get a big money contract poorly structured with regard to personal conduct, then struggle due to a combination of family tragedy, immaturity, and an unfavorable scheme resulting in him being traded for peanuts?

 

Dude, he gave the reason in his post, can you not read?  Both of them played defensive tackle at Alabama and are projected to go top-five.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Coach Tuesday

[dpberr]

I think the Bills should think long and hard about taking a player who shows inconsistent effort in the college game.

 

It's why as a fan, I'm not enamored with Gary, Oliver or Quinnen Wiliams.   None of these guys strike me as having that James Harrison or Terell Owens mindset.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SWATeam]

17 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think the Bills should think long and hard about taking a player who shows inconsistent effort in the college game.

 

It's why as a fan, I'm not enamored with Gary, Oliver or Quinnen Wiliams.   None of these guys strike me as having that James Harrison or Terell Owens mindset.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

I literally saw nothing but amazing effort from Oliver on tape.

[DallasMac]

3 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

I literally saw nothing but amazing effort from Oliver on tape.

Yeah I don't get why some ppl are questioning his motivation.  Saw nothing like that.  He got into an argument W his coach over a stupid jacket.  What else is there?

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

Shhhh....Dareus is still good...

 

.https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/marcell-dareus/6155

[peterpan]

I personally believe Ed Oliver is this years Dareus.  Super talented, but mentally a selfish cancer.  He 'injured' his knee, but milked it and sat out during the season.  Then the on-field argument with his coach, looked really really bad.  Then he sat out his bowl game to avoid injury.  

 

One of those things is excusable.  All 3 show a trend.  I'd stay away from Oliver myself, and I wouldn't doubt other teams have him off their boards because of it.  

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

You are correct.

 

You are indeed in the minority.  

 

 

?

 

Quit pickin’ on the lil feller..?

 

Dareus was an absolute stud, earning PB births routinely. He just couldn’t get his act together.

 

To the OP, I have ‘Bama fear’ as well -whole greater than the sum. I’d prefer DT over Edge, but mostly, I don’t want to lose our 2nd & 3rd rounders for a move up. 

Dammit, Josh! Why’d ya have to go and blow Miami off the field in the finale? 6 would have been so nice..??

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

Quit pickin’ on the lil feller..?

 

Dareus was an absolute stud, earning PB births routinely. He just couldn’t get his act together.

 

To the OP, I have ‘Bama fear’ as well -whole greater than the sum. I’d prefer DT over Edge, but mostly, I don’t want to lose our 2nd & 3rd rounders for a move up. 

Dammit, Josh! Why’d ya have to go and blow Miami off the field in the finale? 6 would have been so nice..??

 

I think he had HOF ability, if only he could get it together...... Sad, but at least he’s stinkin’ rich! 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Toesy said:

Another thing is that Dareus had serious weight problems-at one point he had a giant gut and looked to be over 350 for sure (way over his listed weight)-he lost agility and speed naturally because of this. People forget that these college players are very young guys and some of them have way out of whack metabolisms which naturally get worse as they get older-even while working out like crazy they are always close to becoming really fat almost overnight.    

 

Dude...this is what happens at like 35 or 40...not when you go from 21 to 24. Mostly linked to natural testosterone decline.

Edited April 8, 2019 by matter2003

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, TC in St. Louis said:

I'm terrified that this has already been discussed.  

A few years ago, we had the third pick in the draft, and selected Marcel Dareus.  Here are the other players chosen at the top of that round:  Cam Newton, Von Miller, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Julio Jones.  JJ Watt was drafted #11.  

 

Dareus was a monster talent with an inconsistent effort.  Dareus was handed a 100 million dollar contract, and a couple years later was traded.  Never lived up to his draft position or his contract.  

 

He went to Alabama, surrounded by 5 star talent.  Same as Q. Williams.  Sometimes I think the backups at Alabama turn out better than the starters.  We have 2 of them.  Levi Wallace and Robert Foster.

 

Alabama is the Duke/Kentucky of football.  The bench players would become stars at Missouri or Arkansas or Boston College.  

 

I guess this is two threads.  Although Q. Williams may seem to be the most dominant DL in the draft, because he is from Alabama he might not be all that.  Reminds me of Reggie Ragland and Shaq Lawson.....stars at top programs and not stars in pro football.

 

Give me Ed Oliver, Josh Allen, or Montez Sweat.  

 

Actually, Dareus was pretty good early on.  He was a Pro Bowler in 2014 and an All Pro in 2015, so he was as good as advertised.  Then something went wrong.  Maybe it was his big contract but my guess is that it probably was something in his personal life.  In the end, pro football players are people, and just like accountants and truck drivers and school teachers, the stuff that goes on in their families or in their heads can easily derail their careers.

[Marv's Neighbor]

Would that be the Good Dareus or the Bad Dareus?

[Buffalo716]

Thank God you aren’t the GM

 

he is the most complete player in the draft top to bottom

 

i would have a stiffy if he was on the board when the Bills picked 

[TC in St. Louis]

17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Thank God you aren’t the GM

 

he is the most complete player in the draft top to bottom

 

i would have a stiffy if he was on the board when the Bills picked 

 

Just posing a question.  Like everybody else in here.  Thanks for sharing about your sex life.

[Bring it]

Ultimately it is totally up to Mcbeane, probably more McDermott, to find out what kind of attitude and work ethic these prospects have. QW is dominate,now! Have to admit my thoughts did go to Dareus! But that’s not really fair to QW.

[thenorthremembers]

I feel like we are comparing a wide variety of vastly different players.   Dareus is a more compact player which gave him the ability to play in two gap schemes, but he was also athletic enough to play one gap.   However, he probably isn't ever going to give you the ability to use him in a 3-4 as a 3 tech.  

 

From the tape I watched on Williams he was  asked to get up the field a lot, he did take on double teams but he wasnt a traditional 2 gap space eater by any means.   He has scheme versatility in the fact he can probably play 3 tech in a 3-4 defense, or play inside in a one gap 4-3 scheme.  I think Dareus is a bad comparison, feel like Muhammed Wilkerson is probably more accurate.    He has amazing hands, just incredible to watch how effortless it is for him to shed blocks without allowing the guards and centers to get into his body.   But he can be inconsistent, watch the Georgia game where their big dogs ate his lunch.  That game made me a big fan of Georgia's center Lamont Gaillard.

 

Oliver is a different sort of player altogether.  The numbers may not be there, but he played everywhere on that defense.   Despite his size Houston used him as 1 tech to eat up blockers which he did effectively.  They used him inside as a 3 tech.    They even used him as a edge rusher.   That is why he is so unique.   He can effectively play any position in your front seven given the need, and yes he also dropped as an outside linebacker on some plays.   He can get overwhelmed physically when he doesn't use proper leverage, but when you talk about scheme versatility he is about as good as it gets in this draft.    I wonder what his production would look like in a scheme where he is allowed to play 3 tech on 1st/2nd down, and then moved to edge on obvious passing downs.  His get off is about as good as it gets. 

[PetermansRedemption]

19 hours ago, peterpan said:

I personally believe Ed Oliver is this years Dareus.  Super talented, but mentally a selfish cancer.  He 'injured' his knee, but milked it and sat out during the season.  Then the on-field argument with his coach, looked really really bad.  Then he sat out his bowl game to avoid injury.  

 

One of those things is excusable.  All 3 show a trend.  I'd stay away from Oliver myself, and I wouldn't doubt other teams have him off their boards because of it.  

If it were me, I would have done the same thing. You are already locked into top 10 in the NFL draft, why risk injury and falling out of the first round? That is potentially millions to play for a Houston team for nothing but a bowl ring. I would have taken it a step further and just withdrawn from school Ala Bosa. Say I am tending to my injury and making sure I’m 100% for the combine. The argument with the coach, I feel the coach is more at fault than Oliver. Does that team really not have enough money to afford field jackets for everyone? If it is cold why would Oliver want to stand there and remain cold when there is a jacket within reach. IMO all three of these are completely excuseable and justifiable. I still want Oliver at 9. I just fear he will not make it that far. 

[colin]

i think our FO really really hates lazy asses.  i dunno if williams is one, but marcel was, and that was his downfall.

[foreboding]

22 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Dareus is the pro I've seen most compared to Williams by many pundits.

 

Oliver because of similar size and attributes has been compared to a John Randle type. 

 

I'd love me some John Randall!