Buffalo politician: Why wouldn’t you renovate New Era Field

[wppete]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/01/buffalo-politician-why-wouldnt-you-renovate-new-era-field/

 

- Bills owners Terry and Kim Pegula are still evaluating whether to try to build a “scaled-down” new stadium or just renovate the one they have.

But one local politician has made it clear he thinks upgrading New Era Field is the better alternative for his constituents (not all of whom are football fans).

“You have to make the determination of do you build a new stadium or do you renovate the existing stadium and get the best bang for the buck,” Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz told the Buffalo News. “We know if we can extend the lifespan of that stadium for another 25 years, and if it worked for our market, why would we not do that?”

The Pegulas clearly aren’t going to get into an arms race with the Stan Kroenkes and Jerry Joneses of the world to build a new place in Western New York, and have adjusted expectations accordingly.

There’s also the matter of a small trend of cities (other than Las Vegas) becoming more conservative with what they’ll dole out for stadiums.

While the Chiefs got $250 million in public money for a $375 million renovation of Arrowhead Stadium in 2010, the Dolphins’ $500 million upgrade for Hard Rock Stadium came from the place it ostensibly should — owner Stephen Ross’ pocket.

Poloncarz pointed out that the Pegulas have already invested $36 million of their own money (along with $130 million of local money in the last lease) to upgrade the place already. He’s also skeptical of local plans to connect a new stadium to a convention center.

“If you’re going to build a new stadium, you’re going to spend at least a billion dollars, even if it’s not the fanciest stadium in the world,” he said. “It will be expensive, but rarely do you ever see an economic impact in a positive manner for community.”

Regardless the wheres and the whens (and the more important how muches), the Pegulas have yet to raise the possibility of moving the team if they don’t get what they want.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just build a new stadium next to the old stadium!! 

 

With the millions spent every year upgrading training facilities you keep the stadium where it is.  JMO

Edited April 1, 2019 by ShadyBillsFan

[Cripple Creek]

Thanks for the link.

 

Consider changing the title to Erie County politician though.  Quite a difference between the two here.

[CommonCents]

Who’s decision is it? Do the other owners have to approve of the Pegula’s decision?

[PromoTheRobot]

Part or what made the old Rich Stadium so cheap to build ($23MM in 1973) is that most of it is dug into the ground. You can't do that downtown because of the water table.

[Jpsredemption]

No you must let the nfl strong arm you into building a multi billion dollar facility even though you sell out all your games, have a recently updated stadium, and have great sight lines from every angle. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

No you must let the nfl strong arm you into building a multi billion dollar facility even though you sell out all your games, have a recently updated stadium, and have great sight lines from every angle. 

 

We don't sell out all our games. In fact in 2018 we were 28th in percentage of capacity.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2018/sort/homePct

Edited April 1, 2019 by PromoTheRobot

[apuszczalowski]

14 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

No you must let the nfl strong arm you into building a multi billion dollar facility even though you sell out all your games, have a recently updated stadium, and have great sight lines from every angle. 

Except that when you sell out your games it's at the lowest ticket prices in the league, without any of the extra money makers like PSLs and a bunch of executive luxury boxes, your updates are minor and still font bring it up to the level of some of the other lower end stadiums, and the league doesnt care about 'sight lines'.

 

And yes, I know some of those things, like PSLs and luxury boxes dont have as much of an effect on the league revenue as it's not all shared, but when the owners make more money, the value of their franchise is higher increasing the value of the league and other franchises. 

[Captain Hindsight]

20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We don't sell out all our games. In fact in 2018 we were 28th in percentage of capacity.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2018/sort/homePct

More expensive tickets wont help that. 

 

I was on the fence of renewing this year because of cost. If PSL was required, id be out without a second thought

[JMF2006]

Give us new sidewalks on both sides of Abbott Rd and call it done.

 

They play football there all we need are seats a field and cold beer

[Mike in Horseheads]

1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Just build a new stadium next to the old stadium!! 

 

With the millions spent every year upgrading training facilities you keep the stadium where it is.  JMO

Then why don't you just give the current field a major redo if your staying there?

[BarleyNY]

Big issue that often gets lost is “IF it’s possible to extend New Era Field’s life by 25 years.”  If the underlying infrastructure isn’t likely to last that long, then that’s it. It has to be a new stadium.  The question just becomes where.

[Logic]

I just don't think this is what the NFL wants, and at the end of the day, thats who the Bills need to make happy.

I HAVE wondered, though, why they don't do the old "parking lot stadium swap-a-roo" like the Broncos did. Build a new stadium on the current site of the New Era parking lots, and turn the current New Era Field into new parking lots. Orchard Park is just such a perfect location for the Bills stadium. Why change a thing?

On the other hand, I think the NFL wants the stadium downtown. And a multi-use downtown stadium (with at least a retractable roof, as gross as that sounds) is probably the best way to get the funds needed to build the thing.

As long as the Bills stay in Buffalo, I'll be fine with whatever ultimately needs to happen to get to that point.

[badassgixxer05]

Bills fans would show up to watch the bills play in an empty parking lot with lawn chairs. As long as there was beer... Who needs a fancy Billion dollar stadium.. Thats not our style.. ?

[Kirby Jackson]

Just follow the money!! This conversation isn’t about fan experience or watching the game. The Pegula’s, NFL and other owners want the Bills to make more money. That’s the reason that this discussion is being had. NY and Erie County want to spend as little as possible on this endeavor. There is NOTHING else relevant to the conversation. It’s just a matter of where in the middle they meet.

[wagon127]

I feel like the sabres were in the new arena for 7 or 8 years, and people were still crying it wasn't the Aud. It'll be the same for a new Bills stadium. My main concern is, what is the currently time table they are giving the foundation of New Era Field? If it is 10 years, you probably have to build a new stadium.

Edited April 1, 2019 by wagon127

[Albany,n.y.]

36 minutes ago, Logic said:

I just don't think this is what the NFL wants, and at the end of the day, thats who the Bills need to make happy.

I HAVE wondered, though, why they don't do the old "parking lot stadium swap-a-roo" like the Broncos did. Build a new stadium on the current site of the New Era parking lots, and turn the current New Era Field into new parking lots. Orchard Park is just such a perfect location for the Bills stadium. Why change a thing?

On the other hand, I think the NFL wants the stadium downtown. And a multi-use downtown stadium (with at least a retractable roof, as gross as that sounds) is probably the best way to get the funds needed to build the thing.

As long as the Bills stay in Buffalo, I'll be fine with whatever ultimately needs to happen to get to that point.

No they don't.  Once the Pegulas got approved & owned the team, they can do anything they want in regards to their stadium and the NFL can't stop them.  The NFL put up with Al Davis for years because they knew they couldn't do anything to him if he made a decision that was, what he thought, best for the Raiders.  Do you think the NFL loves the road revenue when they play in LA against the Chargers in that sub-minor league stadium for 3 years?  If the Bills decide to renovate New Era stadium, all the NFL can do is send the opponents there and suck it up. 

[nucci]

1 hour ago, Jpsredemption said:

No you must let the nfl strong arm you into building a multi billion dollar facility even though you sell out all your games, have a recently updated stadium, and have great sight lines from every angle. 

do the Bills sell out all their games?

[Seasons1992]

16 minutes ago, wagon127 said:

I feel like the sabres were in the new arena for 7 or 8 years, and people were still crying it wasn't the Aud. It'll be the same for a new Bills stadium. My main concern is, what is the currently time table they are giving the foundation of New Era Field? If it is 10 years, you probably have to build a new stadium.

Someone in the organization or in county government said that with the renovations done a few years ago, the stadium had "good bones" and should last another 50 years. There's no reason to change things now. 

Things I would change: 

 

1. SEATS FOR EVERYONE. I'm sick of the bleachers. Reduce capacity, give me a damn seat. I'll pay more.

2. A "roof" over the seated portion. Not a real roof, but something like a Premier League/MLS soccer stadium. Keep it open air.

3. Turn off the damn train sound on 3rd downs. Am I really asking for all that much?

 

 

 

 

[RyanC883]

45 minutes ago, Logic said:

I just don't think this is what the NFL wants, and at the end of the day, thats who the Bills need to make happy.

I HAVE wondered, though, why they don't do the old "parking lot stadium swap-a-roo" like the Broncos did. Build a new stadium on the current site of the New Era parking lots, and turn the current New Era Field into new parking lots. Orchard Park is just such a perfect location for the Bills stadium. Why change a thing?

On the other hand, I think the NFL wants the stadium downtown. And a multi-use downtown stadium (with at least a retractable roof, as gross as that sounds) is probably the best way to get the funds needed to build the thing.

As long as the Bills stay in Buffalo, I'll be fine with whatever ultimately needs to happen to get to that point.

 

Totally agree with this Logic.  (see what I did there!).  We should all be thrilled the Bills are staying in Buffalo.  Lets never lose sight of that.    We all have different opinions on where the stadium should be, if it should be a dome or open, etc.  (I favor dome, anywhere, because it allows out of town folks to more easily convince their friends/colleagues to go to late season games).   But at the end of the day, I'll still be going up for games to watch the Buffalo Bills, in Buffalo!!!

 

 

[klos63]

5 minutes ago, nucci said:

do the Bills sell out all their games?

no , but it sounds good.

[wagon127]

3 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

Someone in the organization or in county government said that with the renovations done a few years ago, the stadium had "good bones" and should last another 50 years. There's no reason to change things now. 

Things I would change: 

 

1. SEATS FOR EVERYONE. I'm sick of the bleachers. Reduce capacity, give me a damn seat. I'll pay more.

2. A "roof" over the seated portion. Not a real roof, but something like a Premier League/MLS soccer stadium. Keep it open air.

3. Turn off the damn train sound on 3rd downs. Am I really asking for all that much?

 

 

 

 

I also want tables in the concourses. You have all these good food options. But eating him on your lap isn't always the easiest. Give me those high, round-top style tables like they have in the arena.

[Jauronimo]

I propose a new build constructed entirely of recycled material from the old stadium and compost.  This "Green New Field" is exactly the type of thing the lawmakers and down state can get behind. 

 

I would call it Trough Field.  Also, BRING BACK THE TROUGHS!!!

[Mrbojanglezs]

6 minutes ago, wagon127 said:

I also want tables in the concourses. You have all these good food options. But eating him on your lap isn't always the easiest. Give me those high, round-top style tables like they have in the arena.

You can't even walk in the concourses (too small/crowded) and you want them to add tables in there? Disaster.

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

I propose a new build constructed entirely of recycled material from the old stadium and compost.  This "Green New Field" is exactly the type of thing the lawmakers and down state can get behind. 

 

I would call it Trough Field.  Also, BRING BACK THE TROUGHS!!!

 

No meat will be served. Cow farts are too damaging to environment

[wagon127]

4 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

You can't even walk in the concourses (too small/crowded) and you want them to add tables in there? Disaster.

 

 

You would just need to be smart where these table's get placed. There are spots where it would work. The entrance ways at the top of the Upper deck ramp. That area used to be for smoking. The end zone exit area's in the corner of the 100 level could also have room for some tables. And I am talking about small tables too, 2-3 feet in diameter at most.

Edited April 1, 2019 by wagon127

[dollars 2 donuts]

21 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

Someone in the organization or in county government said that with the renovations done a few years ago, the stadium had "good bones" and should last another 50 years. There's no reason to change things now. 

Things I would change: 

 

1. SEATS FOR EVERYONE. I'm sick of the bleachers. Reduce capacity, give me a damn seat. I'll pay more.

2. A "roof" over the seated portion. Not a real roof, but something like a Premier League/MLS soccer stadium. Keep it open air.

3. Turn off the damn train sound on 3rd downs. Am I really asking for all that much?

 

 

 

 

 

 

So agree with the seats thing.

 

For crying out loud we are sports fans, not viking rowers.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

can the local economy even afford new stadium ticket prices? 

24 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

Someone in the organization or in county government said that with the renovations done a few years ago, the stadium had "good bones" and should last another 50 years. There's no reason to change things now. 

Things I would change: 

 

1. SEATS FOR EVERYONE. I'm sick of the bleachers. Reduce capacity, give me a damn seat. I'll pay more.

2. A "roof" over the seated portion. Not a real roof, but something like a Premier League/MLS soccer stadium. Keep it open air.

3. Turn off the damn train sound on 3rd downs. Am I really asking for all that much?

 

 

 

 

 

#3 should actually turn out to be a cost savings ! 

[ProcessAccepted]

3 hours ago, wppete said:

“You have to make the determination of do you build a new stadium or do you renovate the existing stadium and get the best bang for the buck,”

Seems like our politician has already made up his mind on the matter. I'm sure he's not just giving us a personal opinion and has studied the matter in depth. Let the Pegula's finish the study, and make an informed decision. It just seems that New Era is turning into a money pit will all the money that's being spent each year without make any significant progress.

[Seasons1992]

15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

#3 should actually turn out to be a cost savings ! 

 

The Pegula's can simply grab the train horn from KeyBank Center and re-purpose it if they're going to keep it...........it's not like the Sabres are utilizing this currently.

[Mike in Horseheads]

4 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

The Pegula's can simply grab the train horn from KeyBank Center and re-purpose it if they're going to keep it...........it's not like the Sabres are utilizing this currently.

It's gently used

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

We don't sell out all our games. In fact in 2018 we were 28th in percentage of capacity.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2018/sort/homePct

 

My 2 cents ......   Forget capacity. Give us real #'s

Stadium seating varies ( 50 K to 90 K).  I would assume the capacity is a % of being full.

90% 0f 

 

The NFL average looks to be 65000.   Buffalo at 90% = 64447

 

The Bills is currently @ 71,608 (I recall up to 80k in the 90's?) 

Soldier Field 61,500 seats

Raiders 53,286 seats

Chargers *  27,000 seats

 

https://geoshen.com/posts/nfl-stadiums-ranked-by-seating-capacity

5 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

It's gently used

Why does your avatar look sad?  

 

2 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Then why don't you just give the current field a major redo if your staying there?

they have been season after season (so I've read and seen)  

 

NFL wants New and Flashy.  

[Seasons1992]

2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

Why does your avatar look sad?  

 

 

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

5 minutes ago, Seasons1992 said:

 

 

I think we were at 2000-1 for opening day

[Solomon Grundy]

Politics. This is the reason Chick Fil A isn't coming to the Buffalo Niagara International Airport. Thanks Sean Ryan

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Just follow the money!! This conversation isn’t about fan experience or watching the game. The Pegula’s, NFL and other owners want the Bills to make more money. That’s the reason that this discussion is being had. NY and Erie County want to spend as little as possible on this endeavor. There is NOTHING else relevant to the conversation. It’s just a matter of where in the middle they meet.

Exactly.  This is done.  A new stadium is coming. Now the posturing begins to see which entity pays what.  I believe the Pegula's already know what they need to know, I.e. location and type (won't be a roof involved) in a fixed or retractable style.  I'd be willing to bet they do have an overhang like the Seahawks have with their stadium, but it will be open air.

Edited April 1, 2019 by purple haze

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

On the other hand, I think the NFL wants the stadium downtown. And a multi-use downtown stadium (with at least a retractable roof, as gross as that sounds) is probably the best way to get the funds needed to build the thing.

 

If the NFL wants it downtown then they should pay for it and guarantee money to Pegulas for any decision they pressure/impose.  Then the Pegulas can say "You want a 65K stadium with half boxes and PSLs of 10K per seat, fine, but you pay for every seat not sold."

22 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Politics. This is the reason Chick Fil A isn't coming to the Buffalo Niagara International Airport. Thanks Sean Ryan

Since I usually fly out on Sundays I do not care.

[simpleman]

I remember someone here giving us the real reason the Pegula's want a new stadium. It is not about the stadium suitability,  the suitability of the stadium for the players or the game of football,  the fans,  or a better fan experience. It is all about profit. It is much, much harder psychologically to convince fans to pay a lot more to attend a game at a renovated stadium than it is to with a brand new one in a different location. If it is renovated one, it is easier for the fan to compare it to what they had in the old stadium.  The new stadium in a new location makes it easier to distract and confuse the fan about what is honestly a fair and reasonable cost to them to attend the game.

If our government stopped paying welfare to billionaires so they could make more money, there would be no conversation. We would get the best stadium for the best bang for the buck. A business would make the decision based on logic, not just say it really does not matter what the cost is. As the owner I get all the benefits, and someone else pays the costs. It is a win, win for the billionaires.

Edited April 1, 2019 by simpleman

[May Day 10]

IMO, the delta of dollars required between a 25-year major renovation of New Era Field and a new stadium on the same "campus" isnt much.  With a new stadium, they are going to have a clean slate as far as layout.  With N.E.F., they are somewhat bound by the underground footprint and the general engineering restrictions.  Major structural overhaul will cost almost as much as a new stadium.

 

 

I see the downtown idea coming with so much additional cost due to the infrastructure.  

[416BillsFan]

He's right. The Ralph is great, not every stadium has to be a carbon copy of Jerry World.The experience at Orchard Park is a huge draw for those in Toronto/Southern Ontario who are sick of the sterile/corporate Toronto venues. Don't rip off the taxpayers.

[junior]

8 minutes ago, simpleman said:

I remember someone here giving us the real reason the Pegula's want a new stadium. It is not about the stadium suitability,  the suitability of the stadium for the players or the game of football,  the fans,  or a better fan experience. It is all about profit. It is much, much harder psychologically to convince fans to pay a lot more to attend a game at a renovated stadium than it is to with a brand new one in a different location. If it is renovated one, it is easier for the fan to compare it to what they had in the old stadium.  The new stadium in a new location makes it easier to distract and confuse the fan about what is honestly a fair and reasonable cost to them to attend the game.

If our government stopped paying welfare to billionaires so they could make more money, there would be no conversation. We would get the best stadium for the best bang for the buck. A business would make the decision based on logic, not just say it really does not matter what the cost is. As the owner I get all the benefits, and someone else pays the costs. It is a win, win for the billionaires.

 

Have they publicly stated that they want to build a new stadium? I could be misremembering, but I feel like it's only been the league/Goodell that has said they want the Bills to build a new stadium.