For those of us who were not alive to see it, how did the class of '83 look out of the gate?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

check back on this question in about 3 seasons.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

7 minutes ago, no name said:

check back on this question in about 3 seasons.

1) I was probably too stoned to remember 

 

2) what no name said. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Why anyone is so anxious to entertain this question in week 4 of these rookie QB's seasons is beyond me. Mayfield and Rosen haven't even started their respective 1st games. 

 

There is no credible way to answer.

Why you ask.  It’s simple.  

 

This is a discussion that happens almost every season.  

 

Remind us again of what you have said about Jimmy Garappolo before he won even 5 games. 

 

The next Tom Brady maybe

(and better looking). 

 

Ok. I added that last part for chuckles.  

 

Edited September 28, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Don’t know yet.  Mixed bag from Darnold and Allen.  Baker Mayfield has played one good game.  Rosen played 4 minutes and looked okay.  LJ is at best a gadget player at this point.  We’ll see.  ‘83 was a pretty good class.

I think Mayfield,  Darnold and Allen will be top 15 franchise guys but not top 5 elite. Rosen will shine for awhile then the injuries will start piling up. Lamar is a gadget guy only. 

[mabden]

57 minutes ago, Whites Bay said:

I remember Elway really stumbling in his first year.  But I also remember him throwing INCREDIBLY hard, fast passes.  He was known for breaking fingers.

 

Marino went to a Super Bowl in his second year, and everyone thought it would be the first of many.  The kid was amazing.  Very, very quick release.

 

Eason went in 1985 and got so shell-shocked that he never recovered.

 

Allen reminds me of Elway.  I don't know why.

 

Allen has the legs of Elway, the arm of Marino and the heart of Kelly.

 

Blackledge was considered a bust in KC lasting only 5 years and 2 with Pitt.

 

O'Brien had a decent career (2 pro bowls) with the Jets but only got them to the playoffs 3 years and lost each in the first round.

[Soda Popinski]

Elway was definitely very good right out of the gate.

 

Marino was better

 

Kelly took off for a few years but he was killing it in the USFL

 

I don't know how this class compares to that one we won't know for 10 years probably.  

 

Better question is how does this class compare to 2004?    Manning/Rivers/Roethlisburger/bagof*icks.....

Which one will be that last one?  Hopefully not Allen

[The Crowing Rooster]

All I remember is that Kelly signed with  Houston Gamblers of the USFL and Joe Cribbs going to to the league as well.   

[Gordio]

1 hour ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Don’t know yet.  Mixed bag from Darnold and Allen.  Baker Mayfield has played one good game.  Rosen played 4 minutes and looked okay.  LJ is at best a gadget player at this point.  We’ll see.  ‘83 was a pretty good class.

 

 

Agreed, tough to beat the class of 83.  You had 3 first ballot HOFers & you also had Ken Obrien, who had a pretty dam good career but doesn't get the credit since he is always compared to the other 3.  Blackledge & Eason sucked imo.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

1 hour ago, RobbRiddick said:

Will take years to know and will take a hell of an effort to beat 85, or even the year of Big Ben, Eli and Rivers.

 

I assume everyone here has watched the 30 for 30 show 'Elway to Marino'. If you haven't, do it right now. Fantastic documentary. That entire first round was special. So many great players like Dickerson and  Matthews etc. and so many great stories behind the scenes. Fascinating that the Cowboys were desperately trying to get Elway, and for a time Bill Walsh considered trading Montana so he could go after Elway.

 

Even Tony Eason got his team to a Super Bowl despite having a poor career. Ken o Brien was no slouch (25,000 yards over an 11 year career).

 

 

The other factoid of useless trivia associated with the QB greats of that era (I will also include Montana even though he was already in the league before '83) that I find interesting as I'm from there originally, is that most of them came up in the steel mill geography of western PA--nicknamed the Cradle of Quarterbacks because it literally churned out so many good ones--Marino, Kelly, Montana, Hostetler, and before that, Unitas, Namath, just to name a few...good article about that here:

 

 http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-01-30-9401300392-story.html

 

[blacklabel]

Marino played in 11 games, starting 9 of them in his rookie season. Threw for 2200 yards, 20 TDs to 6 INTs, 7-2 record as a starter.

 

The following season he blew up, throwing for 5084 yards and 48 TDs.

 

He fell to the bottom of the first round because his senior season at Pitt wasn't great and there was a lot of rumors that he was a party hound and wouldn't take the job seriously. The Rooney's, to this day, still lament not taking Marino. They took Gabe Rivera, a nose tackle who drove drunk about six weeks into his rookie season, crashed his car at high speeds and ended up paralyzed as a result. Art Rooney, Jr. is on record saying that his dad, even toward the end of his life, would still often say, "We should've taken Marino." 

 

Not only was that draft incredible for QBs, producing three Hall of Famers, it also produced Hall of Famers Eric Dickerson (2nd overall), Bruce Matthews (9th overall) and Darrell Green (28th overall). 

24 minutes ago, Soda Popinski said:

Elway was definitely very good right out of the gate.

 

Marino was better

 

Kelly took off for a few years but he was killing it in the USFL

 

I don't know how this class compares to that one we won't know for 10 years probably.  

 

Better question is how does this class compare to 2004?    Manning/Rivers/Roethlisburger/bagof*icks.....

Which one will be that last one?  Hopefully not Allen

 

When Losman and Edwards were on this team, I used to say, "I wish we could take Edwards' brains and field-reading ability and merge it with Losman's athletic ability." Probably would've had a decent QB. But, Trent played scared while Losman played dumb.

Edited September 28, 2018 by blacklabel

[RobbRiddick]

12 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

The other factoid of useless trivia associated with the QB greats of that era (I will also include Montana even though he was already in the league before '83) that I find interesting as I'm from there originally, is that most of them came up in the steel mill geography of western PA--nicknamed the Cradle of Quarterbacks because it literally churned out so many good ones--Marino, Kelly, Montana, Hostetler, and before that, Unitas, Namath, just to name a few...good article about that here:

 

 http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-01-30-9401300392-story.html

 

I love reading and watching stuff about the old days. The 30 for 30 shows and A Football Life are great. I watch the NFL still, but for me it's just not the same game I grew up loving. I know I sound like an old fart, but all the rule changes have hurt the sport IMO. Some were necessary but the league is so obsessed with high scoring games, and so many of the younger fans are so obsessed with fantasy that it's watered the whole thing down. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

19 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Marino, Kelly, Montana, Hostetler, 

That’s an insult to the HoFers. 

 

A career backup lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. 

 

[GRHater69]

I remember the QB who was under the most scrutiny was Elway because of how he forced the trade from the Baltimore Colts. He struggled with short passes early because he lacked proper touch....he learned as the season went on.

 

Marino was a stud when he took over, his first pro start was against the Bills in the old Orange Bowl, a game the Bills won in OT, their first win there since the 60s. He was out dueled by Joe Ferguson that day, but you could tell he was going to be something special.

 

Ken O'Brien rode the bench that year behind Richard Todd with the Jets and managed to get in some trouble during the season with a nightclub incident. 

 

We know that Kelly wasn't here for 3 years.

 

For some reason I have almost zero memories of Todd Blackledge, no shock considering he was the bust of that draft.

 

As someone else mentioned, Tony Eason didn't start right away either, but around 85-88 he and Boomer was among the top QBs in the AFC. I remember he was considered a reach at the time of the draft.

 

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

15 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

That’s an insult to the HoFers. 

 

A career backup lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. 

 

Dang, I knew I should have gone with Scott Zolak instead ?

[RobbRiddick]

Kelly's story is just fantastic. I love the stuff about him saying he "sure as hell" didn't want to play in Buffalo. And then the interview when he played in the USFL and said, "would you rather be in Houston or Buffalo?" before laughing with the interviewer. 

 

Bills fans, especially those living in Buffalo, must have just hated him then. And then he finally agrees to play, plays brilliantly, falls in love with the city, goes to 4 Super Bowls and raises his family there. 

 

It's just great.

[LSHMEAB]

2 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Don’t know yet.  Mixed bag from Darnold and Allen.  Baker Mayfield has played one good game.  Rosen played 4 minutes and looked okay.  LJ is at best a gadget player at this point.  We’ll see.  ‘83 was a pretty good class.

I agree overall, but Rosen didn't look okay. He's got a REALLY weak arm. He was the guy I wanted out of this class so I'd love to see him fail.

[RobbRiddick]

This thread got me interested so I've just looked up first round QBs by year since 83 (since this is my era). There were no first rounders in 84 or 85 so let's start with 86:

 

Jim (or Chris...) Everett

Chuck Long (I remember this guy - had no idea he was picked 12th overall)

 

87

Kelly Stouffer

Chris Miller

Jim Harbaugh (had no idea he was taken in the first, either)

 

88

None

 

89

Troy Aikmen

 

90

Jeff George

Andre Ware

 

91

Dan McGwire

Todd Marinovich

 

92

David Klingler

Tommy Maddox

 

93

Drew Bledsoe

Rick Mirer

 

94

Heath Shuler

Trent Dilfer

 

95

Steve McNair

Kerry Collins

 

96

None

 

97

Jim Drunkenmiller

 

98

Peyton Manning

Ryan Leaf

 

99

Tim Couch

Donovan McNabb

Akili Smith

Daunte Culpepper

Cade McNown

 

2000

Chad Pennington

 

 

01

Michael Vick

 

02

David Carr

Joey Harrington

Patrick Ramsey

 

03

Carson Palmer

Byron Leftwich

Kyle Boller

Rex Grossman

 

04

Manning

Rivers

Big Ben

JP Losman (ouch!)

 

05

Alex Smith

Aaron Rodgers

Jason Campbell

 

06

Vince Young

Matt leinart

Jay Cutler

 

07

Jamarcus Russell

Brady Quinn

 

 

08

Matt Ryan

Joe Flacco

 

09

Matt Stafford

Mark Sanchez

 

 

10

Sam Bradford

Tim Tebow

 

11

Cam Newton

Jake Locker

Blaine Gabbert

Christian Ponder

 

12

Andrew Luck

Robert Griffin

Ryan Tannehill

Brandon Weedon

 

13

EJ Manuel (OOOOOUUUUCH!)

 

14

Blake Bortles

Johnny Manziel

Teddy Bridgewater

 

15

Jameis Winston

Marcus Mariota

 

16

Jared Goff

Carson Wentz

Paxton lynch

 

17

Mitchell Trubisky

Patrick Mahomes

Deshaun Watson

 

 

[BobbyC81]

2 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

Well it certainly could turn into something special.  I still wonder about Rosen.  Idk why really but he is the one a wonder about the most.  I just dont see any fire.  He has that Jay Cutler type demeanor to me.  But he could be great who knows.

 

If it does turned into something truly special the Bill's were part of it again...just like we were in the Kelly draft.

 

There was an interesting observation made on NFL Primetime this week by one of their crew:  when Baker Mayfield entered their last game, his teammates and the crowd were fired up.  When Rosen entered the Arizona game, meh.

[DefenseWins]

6 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Kelly was in the USFL for 3 years and lit it up.

 

Actually, Kelly spent his first TWO seasons in the USFL. It folded before it's 3rd season. That's when Kelly joined the Bills. Kelly's 1st couple years with the Bills were nothing special either actually. Statistically, Kelly's best two back to back seasons here were in 1990 and 1991. He always seemed to throw a lot of Int's. That's where it helped having Thurman Thomas running the ball! But they did go to the 4 straight Super Bowls... Marino was very good and could almost beat you single handedly. Buffalo had the better overall team though. Bruce Smith was always the big difference on defense. The Bills always had some of their best games playing against the Dolphins.

[Bobby Hooks]

24 minutes ago, DefenseWins said:

 

Actually, Kelly spent his first TWO seasons in the USFL. It folded before it's 3rd season. That's when Kelly joined the Bills. Kelly's 1st couple years with the Bills were nothing special either actually. Statistically, Kelly's best two back to back seasons here were in 1990 and 1991. He always seemed to throw a lot of Int's. That's where it helped having Thurman Thomas running the ball! But they did go to the 4 straight Super Bowls... Marino was very good and could almost beat you single handedly. Buffalo had the better overall team though. Bruce Smith was always the big difference on defense. The Bills always had some of their best games playing against the Dolphins.

Kelly played really well in the USFL as well, he and Steve Young played what anyone who ever watched it claims to be the best game of football ever played. 

 

The best game never seen, I think they called it. Kelly eeked our the win in the end. 

 

EDIT: “greatest game no one saw.” 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Bobby Hooks

[BobbyC81]

6 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

Agreed, tough to beat the class of 83.  You had 3 first ballot HOFers & you also had Ken Obrien, who had a pretty dam good career but doesn't get the credit since he is always compared to the other 3.  Blackledge & Eason sucked imo.

 

Eason was never the same after facing the '85 Bears in the Super Bowl.

[oldmanfan]

The original question was how the rookie class of 83 looked in 83.  Marino was a stud his rookie year.  Elastic struggled a bit but you could tell he was going to be good.   The others didn't play much.

 

Different times now with all these kids playing early.   But to say this class is better than a class with 3 HOFers is premature to say the least.

[RPbillsfan]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

All of the first rounders except for Baltimore are all starting before mid season is even here...........

 

I realize that this will not be fully know for a few years......but does this look like the greatest QB draft ever?

Elway starting but not playing well, Marino backing up and threw two TD's in mop up role, Blackledge backing up and not playing, O'Brien backing up Richard Todd,  Tony Eason backing up Steve Grogan, Kelly lighting it up for USFL Houston Gamblers

[Tcali]

8 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

This thread stems from the thread asking if this was already the greatest QB class ever. I was not alive in 1983, and I was wondering how some of the quarterbacks looked right out of the gate. I won't count Kelly because of the whole Houston Gamblers thing. But, how did guys like Ken O'Brien or Todd Blackledge look? Did Elway and Marino look like world-beaters from the start? I know Marino sat for a few games, but Elway started immediately. 

Elway was bigger than life to start. Marino was close to bigger than life. Remember that stats were different back then. QBs didnt go 20 for 25.The WRs got roughed up.Dinks and dunks were rare.You could see they were both gonna be great early.O'Brien started slow but you could see the good arm.He didnt have the quickness or vision that Elway and Marino had.Obvious from the beginning.--I would guess the 18 QB class wont match up to 83....-But Goff and Wenz '17---we shall see.

 

I see a similarity in swagger between Allen and kelly. Kelly way more accurate arm and better QB smarts.Allen better athlete. Both with the sports healthy'im superior' attitude

[Rochesterfan]

9 hours ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Don’t know yet.  Mixed bag from Darnold and Allen.  Baker Mayfield has played one good game.  Rosen played 4 minutes and looked okay.  LJ is at best a gadget player at this point.  We’ll see.  ‘83 was a pretty good class.

 

 

Darnold played well in game one after a pick six on his first throw, but has not looked great in weeks 2 or 3.  I think McCown would give them a better chance to win, but Darnold needs the snaps to grow.

 

Allen looked shaky in Baltimore and the first half against LA, but he showed steady improvement in the second half and against Minn.  Needs to keep getting better.

 

Mayfield played 2.5 quarters and looked excellent against a Jet team that was prepared for TT.  I did not see much adjust from NY and Mayfield picked them apart with throws to spots TT can not (will not) usually throw to.  I look forward to seeing him against teams that game plan for him.

 

Rosen played about 4 minutes and I was very unimpressed.  He threw a pick and a pick six that a penalty wiped out.  It was a no win situation, but he looked no better than Bradford and I thought many of his passes lacked some zip to get where they needed to go.

 

I agree 83 was a good class, but it is way to early for comparisons at this point.  Heck Kelly was not even in the NFL because of the USFL - so very hard to judge.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Rochesterfan

[Fadingpain]

9 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

Well it certainly could turn into something special.  I still wonder about Rosen.  Idk why really but he is the one a wonder about the most.  I just dont see any fire.  He has that Jay Cutler type demeanor to me.  But he could be great who knows.

 

If it does turned into something truly special the Bill's were part of it again...just like we were in the Kelly draft.

The 4 minute or so that he has played were lacking in fire, huh?

 

 

[Wyokid]

9 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

This thread stems from the thread asking if this was already the greatest QB class ever. I was not alive in 1983, and I was wondering how some of the quarterbacks looked right out of the gate. I won't count Kelly because of the whole Houston Gamblers thing. But, how did guys like Ken O'Brien or Todd Blackledge look? Did Elway and Marino look like world-beaters from the start? I know Marino sat for a few games, but Elway started immediately. 

Well I’ve been aBroncos fan for a long time but I was only 12 when Elway was drafted. I can tell you that he was pretty bad. He was also drafted that year by the New York Yankees ( he was that good at baseball too). It got so bad for him that he contemplated leaving football for a baseball career. He was better his second year but still struggled. What saved Elway were the comebacks. He would suck for 57 minutes and then have this ridiculous comeback. In his defense he didn’t have a lot of talent around him but it seemed to click in his 3rd year and the rest is history. 

[SDS]

9 hours ago, mead107 said:

I’m to old to remember.  Over 35 years ago. ?

Nothing is grabbing me.  

 

Is this meant to be funny?

[Albany,n.y.]

It looks like most of you are either too young or didn't follow the USFL.  Kelly played 2 of the 3 USFL seasons.  He didn't sign in time to play the 1st season and ended up signing with the expansion Houston Gamblers.  He played for the Gamblers both of their 2 seasons.  He lit it up but took a lot of sacks running the run and shoot offense.  I'll give you an example of Kelly's toughness even in the USFL:  I was listening to a NJ Generals/Gamblers game (I was living in the NY metro area in the 3 USFL seasons) on my way home from Queens to Suffolk County.  In the 1st half Kelly went out with a knee injury.  The announcers were feeling bad for Houston because they speculated that Kelly would be lost for weeks.  The 2nd half starts and to the announcers amazement Kelly returns to the game. That was my introduction to the toughness of Jim Kelly.    

After the 3rd USFL season in spring 1985 it was announced there would be a move to the fall in  1986. One aspect of that move was the merger of Houston into the Generals.  The Generals already had Doug Flutie at QB but everyone knew Kelly would be the Generals QB .  The Generals actually had a camp where Flutie and Kelly were shown in photos throwing side by side. After the league ended up with the $3 verdict the league eventually suspended operations letting the p!ayers go to the NFL.  By that time a number had already left for the NFL with some leaving after the spring of 1985 and playing the fall 1985 NFL season.  The suspension eventually became the folding of the USFL.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Albany,n.y.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

As long as Allen becomes a Hall of Famer is all that I care about.

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[Dadonkadonk]

Marino was great. Elway was terrible. Blackledge even worse - could not even beat out a journeyman QB.  I think Eason sat behind Grogan most of the year. O’Brien sat behind Todd.  Eason had a few good seasons, O’Brien too. Elway got better.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

All of the first rounders except for Baltimore are all starting before mid season is even here...........

 

I realize that this will not be fully know for a few years......but does this look like the greatest QB draft ever?

 

There was 3 HOF QB's in that draft (Elway.Marino, Kelly), this class would have to produce 4 HOF QB's, the odds are unlikely but not impossible. 

[DefenseWins]

8 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Kelly played really well in the USFL as well, he and Steve Young played what anyone who ever watched it claims to be the best game of football ever played. 

 

The best game never seen, I think they called it. Kelly eeked our the win in the end. 

 

EDIT: “greatest game no one saw.” 

 

And the two QB's (Kelly and Steve Young) later had the famous "No Punt" game out in San Francisco in 1992 (9-13-92)

[26CornerBlitz]

8 hours ago, Bobby Hooks said:

Kelly played really well in the USFL as well, he and Steve Young played what anyone who ever watched it claims to be the best game of football ever played. 

 

The best game never seen, I think they called it. Kelly eeked our the win in the end. 

 

EDIT: “greatest game no one saw.” 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Strongly disagree.  3 games is a strong sample size.  This is the best qb class ever and I don’t think it’s close. 

 

...according to the TBD Rules Book, three games defines a career for analytical purposes......................

[NoSaint]

17 hours ago, Sky Diver said:

 

Rosen isn’t very mobile and he doesn’t throw well while on the move.

 

Plus he has that saban voodoo hex on him

[billsfan1959]

15 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

That’s an insult to the HoFers. 

 

A career backup lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. 

 

Ironically, Hostetler was in the right place at the right time because Simms was injured during the Bills/Giants game a month earlier...

[PlayoffsPlease]

18 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

All of the first rounders except for Baltimore are all starting before mid season is even here...........

 

I realize that this will not be fully know for a few years......but does this look like the greatest QB draft ever?

No . it is not close to the 1983 draft class. The odds of multiple hall of famers being in the 2018 class is very small. 

[BuffaloRush]

Sometimes it takes more than a season or two to determine how good a QB is going to be.  Look at an RG3 who had a breakout rookie year but was never the same after teams caught onto him and after his injury.

 

Also, I was around for this but Ken O’Brien has a breakout 2nd year, made it to the Pro Bowl and helped the Jets to the playoffs.  But after that he was largely an average QB.  

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

19 hours ago, Like A Mofo said:

I think the evaluation process was so different then. Blackledge especially, I have been a PSU fan since 1981 and I don't remember him being all that good, he was a good QB in college on a stacked team. I think scouts etc back then valued wins and team success in college more then they do now.

 

I'd be really shocked to hear that was the case, however I think these days with all the computer analysis and other data available today, it's much easier to separate a players success out from a teams success.  Back then it was more blurry so they got sucked into thinking the player had more to do with it than he really did.

 

Kelly was in the USFL for was it 2 or 3 seasons, and Marino didn't start the first few games so trying to make anykind of meaningful argument after 3 weeks is a complete waste of time.

[Augie]

19 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Strongly disagree.  3 games is a strong sample size.  This is the best qb class ever and I don’t think it’s close. 

 

But some of these guys didn’t play right out of the gate. Be fair - give them two more quarters! 

 

I get the original question....how did the ‘83 class look early on. To be honest, it’s hard for me to say. Kelly wasn’t with us yet, and you didn’t have the same level of coverage. No Sunday Ticket, etc. Just a paragraph on each team in the USA Today once a week. Odd how times have changed SO MUCH!