How long do you give Allen?

[RFL]

9 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

After reading some of the posts on here.....I'm already done with him....looking at 2019 QBs.....smh....

And of course they know more than the GM’s and scouts

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, Tyrod's friend said:

 

so it's safe to say that if I look at your posts, I'll find that you haven't made up your mind on AJ McCarron or Nate Peterman ... right?

 

You will not here me trash Peterman. I do not think McCarron is anything special as of right now but again you will not find any post of mine saying get them out of here like i was with TT last year 

[What a Tuel]

34 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

He's not ready to start. He's not playing. 

 

9 minutes ago, Yeezus said:

 

great. so on top of having the worst mechanics and accuracy out of all his peers drafted in the 1st round, he will be a whole year behind in terms of experience from most of them. 

 

Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold are all day 1 starters. Peterman will outplay Allen in camp. 

 

I don't care what draft people say, neither of you could possibly know this. Simmer down. Let the kid prove himself. 

[QBorBust2018]

2 years, 32 games. 

[NickelCity]

37 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The people who don't like him have already given up on him and declared him a failure.  He will remain a failure in their eyes until he proves them wrong.  So he's already failed in their eyes.

 

I'm really not trying to hound because I dig that you're as invested in all this like the rest of us, but folks complaining and bitching on draft night is totally appropriate. Lots of reasons to think he'll bust. Hope they're all wrong. 

[Fadingpain]

52 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Bills fans don’t have any patience for QB development. 

 

And while I’m somewhat indifferent about the selection of Allen - clearly he’s a good kid, prototypical size, rocket arm, loads of potential - my fear is that our fans will give him 8 games and then set his house on fire if he doesn’t look like the 2nd coming of Elway. 

 

How many Bills fans would have been ok with Goff starting year 2 - he would have been written off as a bust by 90% of us. 

 

So my question to you is - assuming JA starts 2018 - how long do you give Him?  6 games?  3 years?  

 

How long can you, as a fan, hold off from the bust or boom label for our potential franchise QB?

 

It's hard to really say now, it's so early.

 

One thing is for sure though: if AJ really struggles and does not look good for the first 4 or 6 games, folks will DEFINITELY be shouting for Allen to start.  That's guaranteed.

 

If AJ is competent or even better, it's a much more complicated scenario.

 

It would also be more complicated if the coaching staff came out and declared Allen "no way close to being ready" or something like that.  Or will they hold out the potential option for Allen to play?  

 

What if Allen outshines AJ in training camp!?  

 

There's a lot that can happen between now and week 6 of the season and it's almost impossible to really know how things will look.

 

 

[Thurmal34]

He’s never going to beat out McCarron, so I give Allen all of 20-21. 

 

Brutal.

[bouds]

How long did the Broncos give Paxton Lynch?

 

That's about as far as I'm willing to go, I expect Allen to be the same level of bust.

[Fadingpain]

41 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

The people who don't like him have already given up on him and declared him a failure.  He will remain a failure in their eyes until he proves them wrong.  So he's already failed in their eyes.

That's idiotic.  Some may feel that way.

I hate the pick and firmly believe Allen will never be good.

Doesn't mean I have "given up on him."  Hell, he hasn't even shown up in Buffalo yet.

 

I also have no great faith in AJ!  If Allen looks better in camp, let him start for Christ's sake and then let's all pray that he is better than I think he will be.

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

At least two seasons starting. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

12 minutes ago, Greywolf said:

I think this is potentially another EJ situation. Allen is an inaccurate passer with a mediocre completion rate. He waaaay overthrows and underthrows open receivers when he's under pressure. He has no one to sit behind for a year or two to learn the game and improve his skills, and if AJ doesn't come through for us, the Bills will throw Allen to the wolves behind a rickety O-line and mostly mediocre receivers.

 

I will be surprised if Allen turns out to be a franchise QB. I think the upside is limited to a "hopefully he won't throw the game away" QB.

 

I am definitely keeping my fingers crossed that the Bills show I'm wrong.

I will see that and raise you: On Monday Night vs. Cheatriots.

 

It's the mid-2000s redux.

[Tyrod's friend]

11 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

You will not here me trash Peterman. I do not think McCarron is anything special as of right now but again you will not find any post of mine saying get them out of here like i was with TT last year 

 

Fair enough. 

[Cash]

Until it is clear that he sucks. That could be a few games or a few seasons. Or never, if he doesn't suck. Somehow I don't think he'll wind up being mediocre. 

[Perry Turtle]

As long as Allen improves, he gets time.  He's got some real issues in his game, and will need to show improvement to become the starter.  If he doesn't show improvement, he's going to be a bust. Accuracy issues start with mechanics, and mechanics are not easy to fix. 

 

The difficult thing is that McCarron isn't a fully-developed starter either.  He's going to need significant coaching to give the Bills a chance to win each week.  The coaching staff won't have enough reps during the season to fix Allen's mechanics and get McCarron ready for the games during the week.

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

7 minutes ago, NickelCity said:

 

I'm really not trying to hound because I dig that you're as invested in all this like the rest of us, but folks complaining and bitching on draft night is totally appropriate. Lots of reasons to think he'll bust. Hope they're all wrong. 

 

I am fine with people preferring someone else, but declaring a kid a bust before he's stepped on the field is absurd and a waste of energy and time.  Look, I even preferred someone else.  But its not like Allen has no upside...to suggest thats the case when he was just in consideration of the #1 overall pick is comical.  

 

His draft slot means nothing now.  All that matters is what he does on the field.  To sit here and be CERTAIN he will bust like so many are is just wasted energy IMO.  Might as well just look forward to seeing what he can do rather than just wallow in the failures that haven't happened yet.

[MAJBobby]

Also in my head “Trust the Process” no longer exsists. After Allen it is “Prove your Process” 

[Chicken Boo]

4 seasons.  I think that's more than fair.

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours.. oh we at that point already..

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Bakin said:

Bills fans don’t have any patience for QB development. 

 

And while I’m somewhat indifferent about the selection of Allen - clearly he’s a good kid, prototypical size, rocket arm, loads of potential - my fear is that our fans will give him 8 games and then set his house on fire if he doesn’t look like the 2nd coming of Elway. 

 

How many Bills fans would have been ok with Goff starting year 2 - he would have been written off as a bust by 90% of us. 

 

So my question to you is - assuming JA starts 2018 - how long do you give Him?  6 games?  3 years?  

 

How long can you, as a fan, hold off from the bust or boom label for our potential franchise QB?

 

 

Well I was the one person on here after Goff's rookie year saying "hang on guys there are some glimpses here the kid still has a chance" when the common reaction was ridicule. 

 

Josh Allen likely has a similar path. He will get in about halfway through 2018 as Goff did his rookie year and I expect that to be bumpy, but he absolutely undoubtedly should go into 2019 as the certain starter no matter what (maybe AJ playing at an all pro level but that ain't happening). 

[Billznut]

21 minutes ago, Perry Turtle said:

As long as Allen improves, he gets time.  He's got some real issues in his game, and will need to show improvement to become the starter.  If he doesn't show improvement, he's going to be a bust. Accuracy issues start with mechanics, and mechanics are not easy to fix. 

 

The difficult thing is that McCarron isn't a fully-developed starter either.  He's going to need significant coaching to give the Bills a chance to win each week.  The coaching staff won't have enough reps during the season to fix Allen's mechanics and get McCarron ready for the games during the week.

 

 

 

 

That and we don’t have a real QB coach. Doesn’t give one much faith going forward. If the Bills were led by an offensive head coach with a proven QB coach, I’d feel much better about drafting Allen. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Billznut

[CajunBillsBacker]

My first Bills home game will be the Jets/Bills game in December. I’m fully expecting it to be Allen vs Darnold.

[MJS]

55 minutes ago, Yeezus said:

 

great. so on top of having the worst mechanics and accuracy out of all his peers drafted in the 1st round, he will be a whole year behind in terms of experience from most of them. 

 

Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold are all day 1 starters. Peterman will outplay Allen in camp. 

 

That's not true at all. Mayfield will sit behind Tyrod. Rosen will sit behind Bradford (until he gets hurt). Not sure if Darnold will sit or not.

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, Rc2catch said:

After reading the board tonight I think we should trade him to Miami for a conditional 6th rounder. 

 

Get them on the phone.       

[Boatdrinks]

Fwiw , Goff started in week 9 of his rookie year. I dont think we'll have a real great idea until well into year 2. I'll predict Allen starts the second half of 2018 if the record dictates it. That means 2-3 wins by mid season . At that point, why wait? Overall, the Bills will give him through year 3 before deciding if a change needs to be made. Most fans here will give him untll his 7th or 8 th start before declaring him a bust. 

[reddogblitz]

Until he throws his first I'll advised pick.

[BuffaloTX]

Hope he sits this year and just learns. If Buffalo sucks, GREAT, helps them for 2019 and beyond. If they succeed again, GREAT, helps them 2019 and beyond.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, Bakin said:

Bills fans don’t have any patience for QB development. 

 

And while I’m somewhat indifferent about the selection of Allen - clearly he’s a good kid, prototypical size, rocket arm, loads of potential - my fear is that our fans will give him 8 games and then set his house on fire if he doesn’t look like the 2nd coming of Elway. 

 

How many Bills fans would have been ok with Goff starting year 2 - he would have been written off as a bust by 90% of us. 

 

So my question to you is - assuming JA starts 2018 - how long do you give Him?  6 games?  3 years?  

 

How long can you, as a fan, hold off from the bust or boom label for our potential franchise QB?

 

 

 

Bills fans don't have any patience? They'd better get some.

 

He should get however much he needs. And no, 90% would not have written off Goff, that's nonsense. Yeah, a mouthy 20% maybe but most Bills fans are actually pretty sensible and aware. You hope he's ready in a year, but if he needs more you deal with it, be patient and deal with the frustration of the fans. That's for starting.

 

The bust thing has the same answer for everyone. Nobody is a bust in less than 3 three years to smart fans ... nobody ... unless they're out of the league. And some need even more. Eli Manning's light didn't come on till the last few games of his 4th year.

[Fadingpain]

3 hours ago, RFL said:

AJM could be the next Jimmy G.......lets see what he’s got.  Beane signed him pretty cheap compared to most, he might look like a genius when all is said and done.

In the interest of trying to find something positive about our QB situation, let me just point out that there have been a few scouts/draft expert types to suggest that, had he been in this year's draft, AJM would have been the odds-on #1 draft prospect.

 

I.E., pretend AJ finished his college career last season and came out in this draft with Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, etc...

 

He would be the guy taken first.  And we have him!  Plus, we don't really know what he can do at the NFL level.

If he turns into something special, who cares about the Allen pick anyway!

 

 

[BruceVilanch]

32 starts

[Inigo Montoya]

3 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

As long as Allen improves, he gets time.  He's got some real issues in his game, and will need to show improvement to become the starter.  If he doesn't show improvement, he's going to be a bust. Accuracy issues start with mechanics, and mechanics are not easy to fix. 

 

The difficult thing is that McCarron isn't a fully-developed starter either.  He's going to need significant coaching to give the Bills a chance to win each week.  The coaching staff won't have enough reps during the season to fix Allen's mechanics and get McCarron ready for the games during the week.

 

 

 

 

 

I am agnostic on the Allen pick, I have no idea if he is going to be any good or not.  I do think you have a valid point about the support system for QBs in Buffalo.  I would feel better about having a developmental QB prospect if we had anyone on the Bill's coaching staff who had successfully helped develop a QB before.  I hope Terry, Kim, and McBeane address this situation ASAP.

[CaptnCoke11]

This is probably a question for 2019 when he might actually play.   He’s going to chill behind AJ for a while which isn’t a bad thing.  

[Inigo Montoya]

3 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Fwiw , Goff started in week 9 of his rookie year. I dont think we'll have a real great idea until well into year 2. I'll predict Allen starts the second half of 2018 if the record dictates it. That means 2-3 wins by mid season . At that point, why wait? Overall, the Bills will give him through year 3 before deciding if a change needs to be made. Most fans here will give him untll his 7th or 8 th start before declaring him a bust. 

 

I think one reason to wait until a full year has transpired before putting Allen in is that I think next year's roster should be a lot more stocked with talent to support him. They will have a full compliment of picks, likely near the top of the draft, and over $100MM in cap space to put some studs on the O-line in front of him and some talented WRs out there to catch the ball.

 

We are in a rebuild, don't doubt it.  We were fortunate to get in the playoffs last year and it was great that we did, but I expect our record to take a step or two backwards this year.  It is just as important to put a young QB in a position to succeed as it is to draft the right QB.  In a year I think we will have a roster to help Allen succeed, not a roster that he will be expected to carry. 

[Xwnyer]

5 hours ago, Bakin said:

Bills fans don’t have any patience for QB development. 

 

And while I’m somewhat indifferent about the selection of Allen - clearly he’s a good kid, prototypical size, rocket arm, loads of potential - my fear is that our fans will give him 8 games and then set his house on fire if he doesn’t look like the 2nd coming of Elway. 

 

How many Bills fans would have been ok with Goff starting year 2 - he would have been written off as a bust by 90% of us. 

 

So my question to you is - assuming JA starts 2018 - how long do you give Him?  6 games?  3 years?  

 

How long can you, as a fan, hold off from the bust or boom label for our potential franchise QB?

 

The “fans” already label him a bust they will give him one quarter at best.  Until they build a team around him I will give him time.  

[CNY315]

I'm sending him back today for store credit 

[JMF2006]

5 minutes or 5 downs what ever comes first

 

Look if he isn't ready to start by year 2 then OBD have not done their jobs.

[Buffalo Boy]

How many people were still claiming they honestly believed TT hadn’t reached his ceiling well into this season ????

Hint:  TOO freaking many!!!

While I’m completely underwhelmed by this pick I’m a Bills fan and I’m going to ride this train and see where it leads.

For all the examples of crappy QBs we have picked there are plenty out there that surprised teams with their play after a few years of sucking.

He’s not Brees , Warner, Dilfer, Flacco, Hostedler, Doug Williams......but he might be better than some of them and IF(!!!) a team with a good D and running game is built around him he might actually win 1 SB. 

In my book that would make him a success.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

 

I don't care what draft people say, neither of you could possibly know this. Simmer down. Let the kid prove himself. 

 

It's not a case of needing to simmer down, as you put it. It's a fact that is obvious from the press conference. Beane and McDermott acknowledge Allen is raw and needs to learn. They are perfectly fine with AJ McCarron starting the entire season so there is no need to pull an EJ and start him before he ready. 2018 is going to be Allen's redshirt NFL year.

[Plano]

I give him 1 pass and if it's incomplete, I'm getting drunk and throwing myself through a flaming table.

[RFL]

4 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

In the interest of trying to find something positive about our QB situation, let me just point out that there have been a few scouts/draft expert types to suggest that, had he been in this year's draft, AJM would have been the odds-on #1 draft prospect.

 

I.E., pretend AJ finished his college career last season and came out in this draft with Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, Allen, etc...

 

He would be the guy taken first.  And we have him!  Plus, we don't really know what he can do at the NFL level.

If he turns into something special, who cares about the Allen pick anyway!

 

 

Agree totally. AJ has already been groomed, did his learning as a backup, and has some nice film albeit limited. AJ is ready NOW.....and Beane went and got him on the cheap. This FO has yet to make a bad move in my opinion.....and IF they whiff on AJ (which I doubt) they will buy us a vet in FA next year.

 

i get tired with some of these negative posts from some on here calling themselves Bills fans.  I liked Rosen too but Beane saw something more in Allen. Im betting its also his confidence with the AJ move.  Maybe you are right, we might not even need to worry about the Allen pick......and I hope  you are.

Edited April 27, 2018 by RFL

[Rosen-not-Chosen]

I guess I have no choice but to watch the 3 year trainwreck.  I'm not giving Beane any slack.  Certainly not going to root against Allen, but I think it's a given he will fail.