BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 You're high. Gilmore has been a more producer player than Watkins. Gilmore was a high quality corner that played at a Pro Bowl level the entire time he was playing press zone. Watkins has flashed at a top 5 talent level - which is what enamours so many - but he hasn't produced. His best seasons have been at a good level. Gilmore was VERY up and down in his first few seasons.....his first couple he was actually AWFUL in the first halves of seasons and caught hell from fans and media for it....... and speaking of injury......he hasn't played a 16 game schedule in any of the last 4 seasons so the concussion and shoulder injury prone Gilmore is an anemic 1 for 5 in that regard in his career. His cowardice and embarrassingly poor form as a tackler has been an on-going embarrassment. His "I'm about to get paid so I'm not tackling anyone attitude" was perhaps the ROOT of the tackling problem that plagued the defense and worsened as the year went on. Very good cover guy but had a knack for giving up on plays he thought he had covered and getting burned late by inferior players.......as illustrated by a streak where 3 of his allowed TD's in succession were to rookie WR's including former Jet bum Stephen Hill. Also, generally poor ball skills, though he unsurprisingly had an uptick in his walk year. And fwiw, like Watkins, his age 23 season was a major disappointment....his worst year......leading some to question at the time if he was a bust. Now he is getting paid like one of the league's best. As for Watkins.......there is very little bad to say about what Sammy does on the field. You question his production but rookie years like he had aren't at all common for a WR and he was tremendous in year two. The same family of advanced stats that reflect well on Gilmore reflect even better on Watkins......ask Bandit and Kirby. This past year....his age 23 season.....was a wash due to the foot injury but his first two were truly outstanding and CLEARLY better than Gilmore's first two seasons. Not even close. Perhaps you were drunk or high when YOU posted that ignorant response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaista2k Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) This actually could be a great move IMO. First of all Watkins is always hurt. Secondly, he's not in the teams long term plans. So it would certainly make sense to get something for him. The next question is what could we get for him in a trade? Could we get a 1st, and 2nd, etc? If we could have 3 first round picks going into next year that would be pure gold. Edited May 28, 2017 by Klaista2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 My fear is that he's like a more Christian version of Josh McDaniels... his brief time in Buffalo will be cited repeatedly as his "learning experience" as he preps for his second go-round... just a fear, not a prediction. But this draft and stories like this one have me very spooked. My dad is going to die before this franchise gets things right, at this rate. From what I've seen so far.........I doubt McDermott is a good enough package to get a second gig if he blows this one with arrogant mistakes. And if the Sammy stuff is true, owners don't like spending big money and draft equity on players and having a new coach come in and start dumping those prized assets. McDermott was a marginal HC prospect to begin with and doesn't have that faux Parcells thing that Marrone had going on and he isn't going somewhere and turning a defense around with his coordinating because he's proven to be nothing special as a tactician. He's never won a ring and has been fired as a DC once already. None of that precludes him becoming a good HC but it's not the preferred resume. In Buffalo it doesn't matter if you've been fired as an assistant coach.......the Bills hired Chan Gailey as HC a year after he got fired as OC in KC. No the Super Bowl success as an OC is what has gotten McDaniels the additional looks that he's gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 how many more surgeries will he need for the foot? is he going to have one every offseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I actually LOVE Sammy (or at least his potential). BUT, if they have questions about him, and want to load up ammo to get a QB next draft, do you not consider the benefits of 3 first round picks? With a great QB we can find the WR's. I could go either way, but see the benefit of looking into strong offers. We'll finally have our franchise QB...and no one to play around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 how many more surgeries will he need for the foot? is he going to have one every offseason? Kevin Durant and Julio Jones.....both arguably among the top 5 players in their sport right now..... both needed two when they had the same foot issue........ same as Watkins has had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I have to say, I do LOVE the guy. But I'll freely admit he's quick to duck or step OB. He's too talented for his pathetic YAC. Putting him in a contract year may show what he's made of. Prove it time. This is crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I have to say, I do LOVE the guy. But I'll freely admit he's quick to duck or step OB. He's too talented for his pathetic YAC. Putting him in a contract year may show what he's made of. Prove it time. The instances in the Dolphins game that you speak of looked at lot worse live than afterwards. I was iniially critical but less so after watching again. Sammy got his balls busted for it on the sidelines from fans though and he was yelling back at them. Very immature and very young kid for someone going into their 4th season. Bills have done a poor job by not getting someone to mentor him in that WR room. Anquan Boldin would have been a great get in Sammy's rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Zay Jones is not Antonio Brown. That's the point of drafting for upside.You said Zay Jones is not a #1 WR and we need to draft for upside (i.e. retain Sammy because he was drafted in Round 1). My point is Antonio Brown was drafted in Round 6....and he is most certainly a #1 WR for the Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 The best way to look at the initial trade is that we drafted Sammy at #4 but gave out original 1st round pick (#10?) and our next year's first (#10?) and a fourth to do so. Sammy has not stunk when he has played. He just doesn't play very much. Bad trade for not a very great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 In my opinion Sammy isnt going anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I think the Bills have backed themselves in a bit of a corner here because they did not pick up his option. This means if Sammy has a great season, we will need to franchise him since his contract will be up, which will be very expensive generally and in terms of cap space. Add the uncertainty of how Sammy feels about not having his option exercised (or playing in Buffalo) and you may have situation where he will not want to sign a long-term deal with the Bills. There are a lot of unknowns with Sammy, including his health for this season and after. I do not know if it is the right move, but you certainly can make the argument that getting a first round pick for Sammy would be appropriate value for Sammy under the current circumstances. I disagree. The WR franchise tag this year is 15.682 million. Sammy's option was $13.582 million for 2018. With the franchise tag inflating a little bit we're looking at about a 3 million dollar difference between the FT and his option which isn't disastrous. If he has a great year and stays healthy and you have enough confidence in him to be a dominant player attempt to sign him to a long term deal. If you want another season to prove he can stay healthy then franchise him. If he continues to be hampered by injuries you just release him and are off the hook for the 13.5 million option. Having two first round picks next year means we can target a WR and a QB. If Sammy has a terrible year something tells me we can get our franchise QB and a talented WR to place across from Jones in next years draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Just not buying it, Sammy CAN be a top 20-30 player in the league. You don't deal those guys, you use them. Absolutely In my opinion Sammy isnt going anywhere I agree. It's the off season and "sports journalists" need to talk about something because they are bored. Sammy is staying. Not to mention it would be dumb for the Bills to let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 how many more surgeries will he need for the foot? is he going to have one every offseason? Hopefully just like several other players that have gone through the same timeline/process this will be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cba fan Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) Yeah its pretty stupid. Customer is in line with 20 dollars to pay for his shirt and doesnt feel like waiting. Pays 20 dollars to move to the head of the line. Customer: I only paid twenty dollars for the shirt.... He paid $20 more than the $20 he pd for the shirt. $40 total, however, he only lost $20 because he has a $20 shirt in his closet now. Edited May 28, 2017 by cba fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 He paid $20 more than the $20 he pd for the shirt. $40 total, however, he only lost $20 because he has a $20 shirt in his closet now. nah, he never lost $20...he saw exactly who he was giving the money to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcoam Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 6 pages of utter nonsense because the 'news report', nor any single fan post, didn't care to mention which opposing NFL GM, an employed one, who wants to stay employed, is giving up a future first rounder, for an impending FA, coming off an injury? Suddenly its the sound of silence....... But the over/under on the thread is likely 29 pages jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 He paid $20 more than the $20 he pd for the shirt. $40 total, however, he only lost $20 because he has a $20 shirt in his closet now. But the shirt has had to go back to the tailor several times since he bought it so he's barely worn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 If Watkin's agent made it clear he won't sign a extension a trade would make sense. I don't like having to force a player to be here with a tag. Keeping Sammy for 1 more season when a playoff run is unlikely is not worth letting him walk or limp away a FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 About the source of this article: Thank you for taking the time to learn more about Sports Talk 360 Website. Sports Talk 360 is a privately run website run by a couple of lads who love their Rugby League, Australian Rules Football and NFL. The Sports Talk 360 team are a dedicated couple of lads who seek to bring you all the News and Rumours in the world of Rugby League. We encourage you to get involved by leaving comments on our site and interacting with us. We want your views whether you agree or disagree with us Good old banter between League fans is the whole point of this site. Thats the beauty of League everyone has an opinion and we are just as passionate as you! Happy Memorial Day, Sammy isn't going anywhere this year except maybe IR. glad to see someone else notice this! I started looking right away when I seen a guy named "Granty1983" wrote the article. I said, who TF is that?! and how does he know all this stuff he claims to know? No links to any sources in the article either. Ive never heard of this site before and have no idea if he/they truly have any real sources. Have they ever broke a story in the past? If not, this article/site probably amounts to no more than a fan who is purely speculating. But hey, it's good for conversation in the offseason I guess... lol. I'm sure not going to get all upset or worried over it though, and start cursing the Bills and McDermott/Beane. Not yet anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 If Watkin's agent made it clear he won't sign a extension a trade would make sense. I don't like having to force a player to be here with a tag. Keeping Sammy for 1 more season when a playoff run is unlikely is not worth letting him walk or limp away a FA Yes TRADE HIM! He's not coming back (willingly) so get SOMETHING for him, if there's a team dumb enough to give up that much for him that is (doubt it, nobody is dumb enough to trade a 1st for a WR except Whaley). Sammy is a great player but he can't stay on the field and he doesn't want to be here. How can you blame him? With a good QB he's a pro bowler, with Tom Brady he's a hall of famer in his mind. How annoying would it be if you and a bunch of buddies started a job at the same time and you knew you were the best but for whatever reason they kept getting praises and accolades and moving up the ladder and you were just stuck in a rut? I'd transfer and start fresh with a new team too. For many reasons, and some out of his and our hands, it's just not working out here. But y'all keep working your little jobs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I don't believe he wants to be a Bill, not under Tyrod and doubt he'd want to wait around for the Bills to draft a QB and hope for him to develop. I'm not advocating for him to be traded but It would be dumb to not at least consider any trade options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 That QB is MUCH harder to come by than the WR. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Sammy fan, but for the right price..... +1. Have to doubt this happening, as teams need only wait until FA if Sammy has just an OK season, as Bills will not franchise him in that scenario. If Sammy has a great season, trade is still possible as Bills will want a #1 now or then. Helluva risk to trade for him now sight unseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Can't say I would not entertain offers. It wouldn't be so much about Sammy protesting to sign but moreso about where I want cap money tied up and where cap money is already tied up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 ohhh. lump me in the group that doesn't like this rumor at all. i certainly understands both sides of the story, but i'd really like to see the bills let their talent play themselves out a bit. there's a price for everything as others have mentioned, but the idea of all of this leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 6 pages of utter nonsense because the 'news report', nor any single fan post, didn't care to mention which opposing NFL GM, an employed one, who wants to stay employed, is giving up a future first rounder, for an impending FA, coming off an injury? Suddenly its the sound of silence....... But the over/under on the thread is likely 29 pages jc at this point, i think people are just mostly discussing the idea of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Same deal with Gilmore- should've traded him last year just like we should trade Sammy this year imoya lets trade all our good players early and hope the draft pick we use to replace them pans out How is this a bad plan. I would trade him for a second IN a SECOND! He is a bit of a head case, who can't stay on the field, who's contract is coming up. He barely cracked 1,000 years once in 3 years. Apparently he is the most over valued player on this team by the fans. what a horrible postIf this is true, does the Bills medical staff know something we don't about Watkins' chronic foot injury? Very interesting!u dont think other teams doctors would find out if something is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 ya lets trade all our good players early and hope the draft pick we use to replace them pans out If they suspect that Watkins will not re-sign, and that they don't want to use the franchise tag on him next season, then why wouldn't they at least entertain the idea of trading him? Especially if team doctors feel that his play will continue to be hampered by the foot injury. That's just good business. If you had a beautiful Ferrari that you paid a lot for, but it had ongoing problems with the engine causing you to drive a '99 Dodge Stratus for weeks at a time, would you not think about selling it for a good price? What if said car, in about a year's time, was going to cost you a lot of money or you have to give it away to someone else? Sell it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Dude Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Not sure how much credence to give this radio station but it's out there https://sportstalk360.com/2017/05/26/buffalo-bills-receiving-sammy-watkins-trade-offers/ This looks worse then the Lynch stupid move, this guy is a star and you need to get high first or forget about it. This is why this team continues to fail and the laughing stock of the league. It would be a bold move. Could be a homerun if he still battles the injury bug. Also though, could turn out to be a Lynch 2.0 trade. It would be crazy having 3 first rounders next year though... They need a first and 3 or 4th pick, no less then a first min. Second rounders not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 This looks worse then the Lynch stupid move, this guy is a star and you need to get high first or forget about it. This is why this team continues to fail and the laughing stock of the league. They need a first and 3 or 4th pick, no less then a first min. Second rounders not good enough. They Lynch trade was a necessary move at the time. Agreed, however, that they better get a 1st (and change perhaps) if they pull the trigger on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 If true they are idiotsya, wont take me long to jump off the mcd and beane bandwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Far too much invested in him to let him go for lesser value. I could see this if he was a bust with little/no upside, but we all know that's far from the case. Best to ride this out and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Same deal with Gilmore- should've traded him last year just like we should trade Sammy this year imoagree 100 %. This is what Belicheat has been doing for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Yes TRADE HIM! He's not coming back (willingly) so get SOMETHING for him, if there's a team dumb enough to give up that much for him that is (doubt it, nobody is dumb enough to trade a 1st for a WR except Whaley). But why would you want to trade him now ? Yes we can get soemthing back from him now, for a pick who may or turn out to be decent. I had argued against the Bills picking up his option because of financial considerations and a 'lets see about that foot' this year. For the same reason, I strongly think that we need to absolutely keep him for this season. Many reasons: His foot may finally be fixed and he will play like the stud that he is The compensation may or may not result in a 'worth it' player We will become woefully short on WR and put TT + the new staff in a very bad situation to start It will be foolish to trade him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Yes TRADE HIM! He's not coming back (willingly) so get SOMETHING for him, if there's a team dumb enough to give up that much for him that is (doubt it, nobody is dumb enough to trade a 1st for a WR except Whaley). Sammy is a great player but he can't stay on the field and he doesn't want to be here. How can you blame him? With a good QB he's a pro bowler, with Tom Brady he's a hall of famer in his mind. How annoying would it be if you and a bunch of buddies started a job at the same time and you knew you were the best but for whatever reason they kept getting praises and accolades and moving up the ladder and you were just stuck in a rut? I'd transfer and start fresh with a new team too. For many reasons, and some out of his and our hands, it's just not working out here. But y'all keep working your little jobs!didnt bill belicheck just trade a 1st for a wr, guess he must be dumb too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I think for a trade to happen before the deadline Sammy would have to be healthy and be producing. If he won't sign a extension by then a trade is better then free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 didnt bill belicheck just trade a 1st for a wr, guess he must be dumb tooHa ha, I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) Nobody is untradeable except for a franchise QB. The Bills should be open to offers and if the price is right they should go for it. This is the kind of forward thinking that good teams do. Something unheard of from the Bills who have been playing catchup for years. They could put themselves in a good position for years to come. Edited May 28, 2017 by bmur66 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Ive seen other articles from this website and none of them are true, i think they just make up rumors and write about them like they are facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Then why even bring Tyrod back this year, honestly well, i think that says quite a bit about what they think of Tyrod, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 (edited) points for shopping him: - is in the last year of his deal, meaning they will lose him or have to overpay him - Top 5 WR?? his production is barely 5th best in his draft class (behind several first rounders and a second rder) OBJr, Evans, Cooks, Mathews all out produced... Adams, Benjamin and others aren't far behind - the only part of his career that's worthy of HOF talk is the cost to acquire him - one of McDermots 4 pillars is durability... Sammy hasn't been that - even if Sammy lived up to the hype, how many rings has CJ with Detroit?? - he represents a moon shot from the last regime... converting him now to Currency to invest in this rebuild isn't a ridiculous idea - Zay may actually be a just fine #1 WR Points against: - he is really good occasionally when he's not hurt Edited May 28, 2017 by Over 28 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts