Head coach carousel 2024 edition

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

That is a fair way of looking at it. Some of the people who end up getting these jobs are just patently unsuitable. But there may well be very suitable people who never get the break to be in that position. 

 

 

If there is one thing analytics has taught us in US sports it's that less information = more fun.   A lot of what we enjoy about sports is easily taken away by analysis of data and mimicry.   Variety is the spice that gets lost.   So I hope they don't ever figure out how to sort out HC candidates and that it is always difficult.

[wppete]

I’m blown away with all the hate Belichick is getting. Without a doubt he is the best coach ever. Hope he gets out of NE and he ends up in the NFC, maybe Washington and kicks ass. Hope NE ends up with a scrub coach for the next decade or so, that’s what they deserve. 

[Strethor]

8 minutes ago, wppete said:

I’m blown away with all the hate Belichick is getting. Without a doubt he is the best coach ever. Hope he gets out of NE and he ends up in the NFC, maybe Washington and kicks ass. Hope NE ends up with a scrub coach for the next decade or so, that’s what they deserve. 

He's getting hate because he's responsible for the personnel decisions that can't be overcome by Brady anymore. I don't think many people are doubting his coaching ability, you are right when he leaves they will miss him.

[Utah John]

52 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

Think I might argue for Washington. New owner who’s happy to spend a lot, I believe the most cap space in the league, #2 pick in the draft and like 5 top 100 picks, and some good pieces in place already. 

Those are good points but the Commanders still have the Snyder Stink stuck to them.  It will take a while for the bad mojo culture to go away.  They have had some really good players they disposed of (Sweat, Young) and they've let so many fine coaches go somewhere else to thrive.  It took lightning striking for the Bills to get out of the same pit, and that was largely due to a few high-character players still on the team (Kyle Williams, Lorax) whom the McBeane team turned to, to revamp the culture as well as the personnel.  Plus Josh of course.  I think the Commanders are stuck with too many holes to fix at once and no identity to rally around.

[RyanC883]

15 minutes ago, wppete said:

I’m blown away with all the hate Belichick is getting. Without a doubt he is the best coach ever. Hope he gets out of NE and he ends up in the NFC, maybe Washington and kicks ass. Hope NE ends up with a scrub coach for the next decade or so, that’s what they deserve. 

 

his record w/o Brady is awful.  

[Utah John]

3 minutes ago, Strethor said:

He's getting hate because he's responsible for the personnel decisions that can't be overcome by Brady anymore. I don't think many people are doubting his coaching ability, you are right when he leaves they will miss him.

The biggest mistake for the Pats was in sticking with their lousy GM (Bill Belichick), who let the roster collapse.  A competent GM plus HC Belichick would likely still have the Pats winning.

[FilthyBeast]

50 minutes ago, wppete said:

I’m blown away with all the hate Belichick is getting. Without a doubt he is the best coach ever. Hope he gets out of NE and he ends up in the NFC, maybe Washington and kicks ass. Hope NE ends up with a scrub coach for the next decade or so, that’s what they deserve. 

 

This is why I'm not necessarily surprised about reports saying he may very well be back in Foxboro next year.

 

It's clear the guy doesn't want to retire, but the only problem I see is the unless the Patriots strike gold in the draft with another guy like Stroud and/or pull of a big time trade...their QB situation is going to be murkier than ever in what is already a loaded division/conference and having just a great defense/ST without major offensive improvement simply isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

But I also think there could be maneuvering going on behind the scenes and all these reports are pumping Hoodie up because Kraft doesn't want to fire him and get nothing, but instead try and trade him instead so they can land more draft assets.

 

But back to the point, yes he is the GOAT and any other argument otherwise is simply not valid.

[teef]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is why I'm not necessarily surprised about reports saying he may very well be back in Foxboro next year.

 

It's clear the guy doesn't want to retire, but the only problem I see is the unless the Patriots strike gold in the draft with another guy like Stroud and/or pull of a big time trade...their QB situation is going to be murkier than ever in what is already a loaded division/conference and having just a great defense/ST without major offensive improvement simply isn't going to cut it anymore.

 

But I also think there could be maneuvering going on behind the scenes and all these reports are pumping Hoodie up because Kraft doesn't want to fire him and get nothing, but instead try and trade him instead so they can land more draft assets.

 

But back to the point, yes he is the GOAT and any other argument otherwise is simply not valid.

ohhhhhh that twitter feed of  yours.  are you embarrassed at all?  like...even a little?

[Beck Water]

19 hours ago, djp14150 said:

Head coach changes

 

Panthers fired Reich 

Chargers fired Staley

vegas fired coach

Belicheat leaving Pats ??? Discussions. He might be just coach and not GM.

Commanders fired Rivera 

Atlanta fired coach

 

So we got

Panthers - Reich

Chargers - Staley

Vegas - Josh McDaniel

Commanders - Rivera

Atlanta - Arther Smith

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-head-coach-tracker-five-jobs-open-after-ron-rivera-arthur-smith-firings/

 

Article speculates that Eberflus with Bears and Belicheck with Pats could be upcoming.

[TheFunPolice]

Belichick has literally zero incentive to go along with being traded, and I think that's the strategy you see him employing now.

 

He's a Patriot, working for the team ,etc. Want him gone? You have to fire him so he's free.

 

Trying to screw around and do the whole "well, we want you gone but also want to control where you can go" game is bush league, especially when it's a coach like Bill. 

 

 

[The Jokeman]

43 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

his record w/o Brady is awful.  

what was Levy's record without Jim Kelly? Bill Walsh without Montana or Young? 

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

Belichick has literally zero incentive to go along with being traded, and I think that's the strategy you see him employing now.

 

He's a Patriot, working for the team ,etc. Want him gone? You have to fire him so he's free.

 

Trying to screw around and do the whole "well, we want you gone but also want to control where you can go" game is bush league, especially when it's a coach like Bill. 

 

 

If he feels there's a better organization am sure he'd welcome a trade, one would think that Kraft would trade him where he'd want to go to leave things on good terms. 

[TheFunPolice]

Yet another reason I say Andy Reid is the ACTUAL GOAT HC

 

182-120 record without Mahomes, including a 11 playoff wins (with 13 losses) and a SB appearance which he lost to NE and Brady

 

Those 182 wins before he had Mahomes would put Andy Reid in the top 10 all-time in HC wins. That's before he ever even coached Mahomes. 

 

Then you add Reid's coaching tree:

 

Sean McDermott

John Harbaugh (SB winner)

Doug Pederson (SB winner)

Ron Rivera

Todd Bowles 

Leslie Frazier

Steve Spagnolo (SB winning DC who shut down Brady twice in the big game with NJ) 

 

Some pretty good names there.

 

Belichick's is awful. 

 

 

Bill is a great coach, and will be known as the GOAT unless Reid and Mahomes win a couple more. IF Reid sticks around long enough and they do win 4 or 5, then Reid is also probably right there on the all-time wins list as well at #1.  Then it's a serious discussion. 

 

[That's No Moon]

11 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

what was Levy's record without Jim Kelly? Bill Walsh without Montana or Young? 

If he feels there's a better organization am sure he'd welcome a trade, one would think that Kraft would trade him where he'd want to go to leave things on good terms. 

To give him a happy ending, if you will.

[TheFunPolice]

11 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

what was Levy's record without Jim Kelly? Bill Walsh without Montana or Young? 

If he feels there's a better organization am sure he'd welcome a trade, one would think that Kraft would trade him where he'd want to go to leave things on good terms. 

 

if he wants to go there he could just go there though, and not cost his new team draft capital, which they probably need since they just fired their coach 

 

Kraft owes him a simple release. Why would Bill want his new team to be without a 1st (never would happen anyway) or a 2nd round pick? Once you start getting to 4th and 5th rounders, is it really worth playing games with the career of your franchise's greatest HC? 

[TheFunPolice]

lots of interesting rumors about Vrabel. Maybe he's the surprise/unexpected HC change?  

[Big Turk]

OG Bobby Johnson is out in NJ.

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

I’m blown away with all the hate Belichick is getting. Without a doubt he is the best coach ever. Hope he gets out of NE and he ends up in the NFC, maybe Washington and kicks ass. Hope NE ends up with a scrub coach for the next decade or so, that’s what they deserve. 

I just think it’s time. The team is built by him, the coaching staff is his, the roster is his and they are awful. They lost 3 games this year when they allowed under 10 points. He is responsible for that.  Jones and Zappe are not starting QBs in the NFL and last year hiring Matt Patricia to be the OC was malpractice and showed he was out of ideas if his name was Josh McDaniels. 
 

Be honest, if McDermott had hired Leslie Frazier as the OC after Daboll left and appointed his son to be the DC and they finished before 500, you would be screaming for him to be fired. 
 

I hope NE sucks for 20 years, but BB should be done in NE. I wouldn’t trust him to develop a QB or rebuild that roster 

[thenorthremembers]

43 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

what was Levy's record without Jim Kelly? Bill Walsh without Montana or Young? 

If he feels there's a better organization am sure he'd welcome a trade, one would think that Kraft would trade him where he'd want to go to leave things on good terms. 

 

Levy's win percentage is .418.  Belichick's win percentage without Brady is something like .457.     Pretty sure Bill Walsh never coached without Montana as a starter so that point is moot.   Love Jim Kelly but he is far from Tom Brady.  Point remains, if you're going to call someone the best coach to ever coach he probably shouldn't be a failure without a great Quarterback, otherwise he was just an average coach who got lucky to have a great quarterback. 

[since79]

15 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

lots of interesting rumors about Vrabel. Maybe he's the surprise/unexpected HC change?  

Before I thought Vrabel was a jerk.  In watching him in several games this year I have learned to appreciate him.  In a tight game he is very composed and in control at the end of the game. You see very little panic in his eyes and he is in control of all decisions. He projects confidence. Those are qualities I would want in any coach.

 

I think McDermott has matured along these lines a lot in the last 6 weeks. Less deer in the headlights look. I felt in the past he looked composed on the outside but not on the inside, thus all the useless timeouts because of second guessing or lack of confidence.  Showing lack of confidence is poor in a leader, we have had growth there. Tyler Dunn may have done us a favor with his hit piece.  We have a different leader now with a team watching his back.  

[TheFunPolice]

6 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Levy's win percentage is .418.  Belichick's win percentage without Brady is something like .457.     Pretty sure Bill Walsh never coached without Montana as a starter so that point is moot.   Love Jim Kelly but he is far from Tom Brady.  Point remains, if you're going to call someone the best coach to ever coach he probably shouldn't be a failure without a great Quarterback, otherwise he was just an average coach who got lucky to have a great quarterback. 

 

This is my point in a nutshell. 

 

Andy Reid had a borderline HOF coaching career BEFORE Mahomes was ever drafted. Being in the top 10 all-time in HC wins had him in the discussion already. 

 

The Mahomes arrived and he's coached in 3 more Super Bowls, winning 2, and won a ton more games as well. 

Edited January 8 by TheFunPolice

[Logic]

The thing with Belichick, in my opinion, is that the game has passed him by.

It happens to all the greats. Don Shula didn't coach forever, either.

I just don't think that a 71 year old man whose demeanor can best be described as "hard assed curmudgeon" and who has had many players come out in recent years saying that they were absolutely miserable playing for the Pats -- I don't think that guy can effectively enough connect with NFL players in 2023 to have the same type of success he used to have in New England.

Players were willing to put up with that kind of leadership when it came with consistent Super Bowl contention and Tom Brady at QB. They shut up and did what was told of them because this was the great Bill Belichick, and he carried enough cache that it was worth the headache of playing for such a stern disciplinarian. A few years of non-contention and losing seasons on, though? Establishing a culture from the ground up with a new organization? Color me skeptical.

If he gets inserted into the PERFECT situation -- good ownership and front office, quality quarterback, personnel ready to compete within the first year or two -- then maybe he makes some playoff pushes. But what are the odds he finds a situation like that? And even if he does, how long is he sticking around?

I'm sorry, but if it's me, I'm not hiring Bill Belichick as my next head coach. Yes, he's an all-time great, and maybe the greatest to ever do it. No, that doesn't mean he's the right man to lead a franchise into the future in the year 2024.

 

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

45 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

 

Then you add Reid's coaching tree:

 

Sean McDermott

John Harbaugh (SB winner)

Doug Pederson (SB winner)

Ron Rivera

Todd Bowles 

Leslie Frazier

Steve Spagnolo (SB winning DC who shut down Brady twice in the big game with NJ) 

 

 

 

I have been thinking about this too. Not only has Reid hung around a long time and been successful, he appears to have trained up his assistants to be well prepared to succeed outside his shadow. Those are some pretty darn tenured HCs.

 

It's in stark contrast to Belicheck

[Prospector]

1 hour ago, teef said:

ohhhhhh that twitter feed of  yours.  are you embarrassed at all?  like...even a little?

I don't have twitter, but I would love to hear some of these gems of his.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

The thing with Belichick, in my opinion, is that the game has passed him by.

It happens to all the greats. Don Shula didn't coach forever, either.

I just don't think that a 71 year old man whose demeanor can best be described as "hard assed curmudgeon" and who has had many players come out in recent years saying that they were absolutely miserable playing for the Pats -- I don't think that guy can effectively enough connect with NFL players in 2023 to have the same type of success he used to have in New England.

Players were willing to put up with that kind of leadership when it came with consistent Super Bowl contention and Tom Brady at QB. They shut up and did what was told of them because this was the great Bill Belichick, and he carried enough cache that it was worth the headache of playing for such a stern disciplinarian. A few years of non-contention and losing seasons on, though? Establishing a culture from the ground up with a new organization? Color me skeptical.

If he gets inserted into the PERFECT situation -- good ownership and front office, quality quarterback, personnel ready to compete within the first year or two -- then maybe he makes some playoff pushes. But what are the odds he finds a situation like that? And even if he does, how long is he sticking around?

I'm sorry, but if it's me, I'm not hiring Bill Belichick as my next head coach. Yes, he's an all-time great, and maybe the greatest to ever do it. No, that doesn't mean he's the right man to lead a franchise into the future in the year 2024.

 

I want Belicheck gone because of all the grief we caused us so I know I am biased, but people have pointed out the HC work is hard. Never mind the multiple month pressure cooker of the season and then the post season you should be getting into if you're good at your job. Even the offseason is long hours of watching tape and scheming concepts. Even the downtime is a grind.

 

That's a lot for a 71 year old who doesn't need the money

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

This is my point in a nutshell. 

 

Andy Reid had a borderline HOF coaching career BEFORE Mahomes was ever drafted. Being in the top 10 all-time in HC wins had him in the discussion already. 

 

The Mahomes arrived and he's coached in 3 more Super Bowls, winning 2, and won a ton more games as well. 

Reid may even pass him for all time wins when its all said and done.    I've said it for awhile now, I think Belichick is a fine coach, but he was a fine coach on his way to being fired for a second time when Bledsoe got hurt and ushered in the Brady era.     Once Brady went to Tampa Bay and won another title without Belichick, I think it more than sealed the deal, Brady made Belichick. 

 

I am not sure anyone will ever match what the Patriots did during that era, but it was a perfect storm of things coming together.   Playing in the AFC East with three other teams who virtually wasted decades of time with bad coaching hires, and roster management helped a great deal.   Belichick also plays a part in it, but if we are being honest there are a few coaches who have a better win percentage all time than Belichick without great QBs.  John Madden, George Allen, George Halas, and Paul Brown all come to mind.   I think its a fairly easy argument to say their legacies in football are a fair bit more revolutionary than Belichick's as well.     

 

He may be the best coach lately, but he is not the best coach of all time. 

 

[TheFunPolice]

10 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Reid may even pass him for all time wins when its all said and done.    I've said it for awhile now, I think Belichick is a fine coach, but he was a fine coach on his way to being fired for a second time when Bledsoe got hurt and ushered in the Brady era.     Once Brady went to Tampa Bay and won another title without Belichick, I think it more than sealed the deal, Brady made Belichick. 

 

I am not sure anyone will ever match what the Patriots did during that era, but it was a perfect storm of things coming together.   Playing in the AFC East with three other teams who virtually wasted decades of time with bad coaching hires, and roster management helped a great deal.   Belichick also plays a part in it, but if we are being honest there are a few coaches who have a better win percentage all time than Belichick without great QBs.  John Madden, George Allen, George Halas, and Paul Brown all come to mind.   I think its a fairly easy argument to say their legacies in football are a fair bit more revolutionary than Belichick's as well.     

 

He may be the best coach lately, but he is not the best coach of all time. 

 

 

great points about the AFC Least during the Patriots dynasty as well...

 

No good QBs, only decent HC I can even think of for any real competition was Rex Ryan, who had a few good years with NJ. 

 

NE basically started every year 6-0 and went from there. There was almost no challenge at all in division. The list of Bills, Jets, and Dolphins QBs during that decade and a half is laughable.

 

The division was such an incredible mismatch. Now we get good and there's another great team (record wise) and a HOF QB in the division as well

[Buffalo_Stampede]

We blamed McDermott for this relationship unraveling but Daboll seems like a hot head.

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

When Dallas chokes against Green Bay he's out and Jerry will go after Belichick as soon as he's cut loose. 

No way Belichick goes to work for an ego maniac like Jerry Jones 

Edited January 8 by Fan in Chicago

[RoyBatty is alive]

7 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

great points about the AFC Least during the Patriots dynasty as well...

 

No good QBs, only decent HC I can even think of for any real competition was Rex Ryan, who had a few good years with NJ. 

 

NE basically started every year 6-0 and went from there. There was almost no challenge at all in division. The list of Bills, Jets, and Dolphins QBs during that decade and a half is laughable.

 

The division was such an incredible mismatch. Now we get good and there's another great team (record wise) and a HOF QB in the division as well

It is even worse than that.  

 

What is the #1 concern for a HC every year, the QB and consistency.  Brady's consistency was ridiculous.  Every year but 1 Belichek, after about 2005, had zero worries about who was going to be QB, nada.

[thenorthremembers]

8 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

great points about the AFC Least during the Patriots dynasty as well...

 

No good QBs, only decent HC I can even think of for any real competition was Rex Ryan, who had a few good years with NJ. 

 

NE basically started every year 6-0 and went from there. There was almost no challenge at all in division. The list of Bills, Jets, and Dolphins QBs during that decade and a half is laughable.

 

The division was such an incredible mismatch. Now we get good and there's another great team (record wise) and a HOF QB in the division as well

For sure.  Playing in the AFC East was a huge advantage for them.   They never won a Super Bowl in a year they didnt have a first round bye in the playoffs.   Having to win 2 games to get to the Super Bowl rather than 3 is big for any team, and it played a huge part in them being a dynasty.   Helped that their dynasty was during the time the NFL had both the 1 and 2 seed have 1st round byes.   Another reason I am not sure we will ever see another dynasty. 

 

It is a drag the Jets and Dolphins both have hope in their corner now.   The good news is I dont see Rogers playing as long as Brady.    Miami will have to figure out a way to pay everyone, and from the looks of it the team runs through Tyreek more than it runs through Tua.  Can only hope they pay Tua. 

3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

It is even worse than that.  

 

What is the #1 concern for a HC every year, the QB and consistency.  Brady's consistency was ridiculous.  Every year but 1 Belichek, after about 2005, had zero worries about who was going to be QB, nada.

Brady was incredible to watch.   Just an absolute surgeon.   His arm seemed to get stronger as the years went on as well. 

[thenorthremembers]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We blamed McDermott for this relationship unraveling but Daboll seems like a hot head.

 

 

 

Its too bad the Daboll and McDermott relationship seems to be irrecoverable because I think he will be available next offseason.

Edited January 8 by thenorthremembers

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

 

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Maybe some new blood from the college ranks might be the infusion needed…? 

Kliff 'Claven' Kingsbury and Urban 'Dirty Old Man' Meyer immediately come to mind. 😳

[RoyBatty is alive]

14 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

No way Belichick goes to work for an ego maniac like Jerry Jones 

Could imagine the Jerry Jones press conferences blurting out things  every week and Belichek stewing over it.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

17 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

No way Belichick goes to work for an ego maniac like Jerry Jones 

Jerry Jones wants his hands in it.  Robert Kraft just wants a hand.

[Shortchaz]

Get BB McDaniels as an oc, replace him as gm, draft a qb, see what happens 

[Mango]

35 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We blamed McDermott for this relationship unraveling but Daboll seems like a hot head.

 

 

Daboll is a blowhard. 
 

I think he’s a good football guy to have in the building, but as he moves up the ladder and has more control the worse that personality becomes for an organization.
 

He’s likely best as some sort of OC, positional coach, or passing game coordinator kind of role. A position where he can be him and all the positives that come with it, but there’s some guard rails that prevent him from being the pulse and keep him in his lane.
 

It’s certainly not a get out of jail free card for McD. Just my $0.02 on him. 

[JGMcD2]

40 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

We blamed McDermott for this relationship unraveling but Daboll seems like a hot head.

 

 

It was very well known that Daboll was a hot head before he got here, while he was here and after he left. 
 

Derek Anderson told stories about it, Josh talks about it. He grew by the time he got to Buffalo and while he was here, but I got the sense he wasn’t very well received in his previous stops as OC. 

[ROCBillsBeliever]

20 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

I think Chargers should fire Staley again. Just to make sure...

 

Analytics indicate that firing Staley twice is necessary in order to guarantee a proper sacking.

[Mango]

31 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

For sure.  Playing in the AFC East was a huge advantage for them.   They never won a Super Bowl in a year they didnt have a first round bye in the playoffs.   Having to win 2 games to get to the Super Bowl rather than 3 is big for any team, and it played a huge part in them being a dynasty.   Helped that their dynasty was during the time the NFL had both the 1 and 2 seed have 1st round byes.   Another reason I am not sure we will ever see another dynasty. 

 

It is a drag the Jets and Dolphins both have hope in their corner now.   The good news is I dont see Rogers playing as long as Brady.    Miami will have to figure out a way to pay everyone, and from the looks of it the team runs through Tyreek more than it runs through Tua.  Can only hope they pay Tua. 

Brady was incredible to watch.   Just an absolute surgeon.   His arm seemed to get stronger as the years went on as well. 

It’s been some time, so I don’t have the data in front of me but this isn’t true. 
 

Brady and Bill had a higher win percentage vs the rest of the NFL than they did the AFCE. 

[dma0034]

I don't want to look too far ahead but the Bills have a OC and DC position open. Wonder who will fill both.