Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[Governor]

The McD memes on Reddit are amazing!

[Richard Noggin]

Allen is not going to trash McDermott publicly during the 2023 season.

 

Even though I have finally come to my senses about the HC, I'm glad the QB is avoiding the issue publicly. It's the classy, correct move. He might be stuck with the guy, at the very least through the rest of this season. They do still have a chance to do something special and get to 7-6, then 8-6, and so on. So no one should read into his lack of public commentary, yet. 

 

I think most Bills fans are similarly interpreting Diggs' stuff from last year's playoff game and from this year's start of TC, and now understanding Allen's silence to be a different way of handling the same concerns. And I commend Allen if that is in fact the case. Gotta leave the door open for this season to be salvaged one week at a time. Not even addressing the McD smoke is his best way to do that off the field, for now.

[hondo in seattle]

This from a BN article by Katherine Fitzgerald and Jay Skurski:

 

"In interviews across the locker room, Bills players from veterans to rookies voiced their support of McDermott on Friday."

 

The pro-McDermott folks won't be surprised.  The anti-McDermott folks will find reasons to be skeptical.  ('Well, of course, they're going to publicly support their coach.  They don't want to end up in his doghouse').  

 

I'm not sure why Dunne is a better source than Fitzgerald and Skurski - or Micah Hyde for that matter.  

 

I remember when many on this website were prematurely condemning Matt Araiza.  

 

In the face of conflicting information, I tend to reserve judgment.  

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

11 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

I'd be very surprised if Pegula cares about the operating costs of the bills in any meaningful way, the brand and asset are far more important... 

 

How's that Buffalo Bills brand doin?

 

 

[Scott7975]

14 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

I'm not sure why Dunne is a better source than Fitzgerald and Skurski - or Micah Hyde for that matter.  

 

He isn't necessarily a better source.  I would of preferred hearing some actual quotes though and not a general statement like that.  General statements don't move my needle.

[Doc Brown]

18 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

It's more like a small book.  ... about 80 pages.  Very well written.  

 

Well worth the $8.  Pay, download, cancel.  🙂

 

 

Yeah.  I finally caved.  It was a good read.  Well written.  Dunne made it crystal clear that he thinks McDermott should be fired which I appreciate since you can then read it as a well sourced opinion piece.  No real surprises but he makes the best case on why this team should move on from McDermott than anything I've read or heard previously.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

National punchline again!

 

Hopefully this is the dagger that gets McDermott fired!

[Scott7975]

 

Quote

 

Chiefs head coach Andy Reid, who will face McDermott on Sunday, also was McDermott’s boss for a decade: McDermott was an Eagles assistant for 10 years while Reid was the Eagles’ head coach. Reid was asked if he reached out to McDermott this week, and said he did not, but he said he unequivocally supports McDermott.

“None of us talk during the week. That’s just how it goes. We’re all so busy doing our thing. I can just tell you Sean McDermott is a heck of a human being. That’s what I do know,” Reid said.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Thats a fair point.  Is that all you took from that?

 

I would counter that Daboll did a lot more than just scream at Allen and they have a very good relationship.  Is there anything out there showing McD and Josh have a good relationship?  I've never seen them hug or barely ever see them communicate whatsoever tbh.

We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.  Several players now have come out defending their coach.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.  Several players now have come out defending their coach.

 

Saying good things about the coach does not mean the other things said about him were false.  The thing that people keyed in on and talked all over the internet was already admitted.  Nothing else in the article was talked about.  I have no reason to believe any of the things said in the article, other than the injection of Dunnes opinion, are untrue.  If you don't believe the things in the article then you are just basically saying Dunne is lying and flat out made up the comments and sources or the sources are flat out lying. 

[oldmanfan]

24 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Saying good things about the coach does not mean the other things said about him were false.  The thing that people keyed in on and talked all over the internet was already admitted.  Nothing else in the article was talked about.  I have no reason to believe any of the things said in the article, other than the injection of Dunnes opinion, are untrue.  If you don't believe the things in the article then you are just basically saying Dunne is lying and flat out made up the comments and sources or the sources are flat out lying. 

I do think Dunne has issues with the Bills organization.  As for McD, if he’s lost the locker room then a change would be in the best interest of all concerned.  The remainder of this season will be telling.  If we fold and lose the majority if not all the games then he needs to go.  If they mount a charge and get to the playoffs then no.

 

I am tired of reading certain things.  I am tired reading about him being narcissistic or other negatives.  Many people in leadership positions are highly driven and highly egocentric; that kind of trait helps push one to the top.  I’m also tired of reading about how we’re wasting Josh’s prime years.  He has a good 10-12 years left especially if he gets smarter with his runs.

 

My gut is McD will be out at the conclusion of this season.  But then comes the hardest things is sports, identifying a guy who will be a successful HC.  There is no way to do so until you put a guy in place and see if he has what it takes.  My fear is we all assume the grass will be greener with a change.  But history and experience in life tell us many times the grass becomes more brown. 

[Scott7975]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I do think Dunne has issues with the Bills organization.  As for McD, if he’s lost the locker room then a change would be in the best interest of all concerned.  The remainder of this season will be telling.  If we fold and lose the majority if not all the games then he needs to go.  If they mount a charge and get to the playoffs then no.

 

I am tired of reading certain things.  I am tired reading about him being narcissistic or other negatives.  Many people in leadership positions are highly driven and highly egocentric; that kind of trait helps push one to the top.  I’m also tired of reading about how we’re wasting Josh’s prime years.  He has a good 10-12 years left especially if he gets smarter with his runs.

 

My gut is McD will be out at the conclusion of this season.  But then comes the hardest things is sports, identifying a guy who will be a successful HC.  There is no way to do so until you put a guy in place and see if he has what it takes.  My fear is we all assume the grass will be greener with a change.  But history and experience in life tell us many times the grass becomes more brown. 

 

I don't think McD has lost the locker room at all. If he had then this team wouldn't still be playing their asses off.  I also think he is a good coach.  I just don't think he is good enough.  I didn't buy into everything Dunne was selling on his personal opinion but I did share some of it and I believe a lot of the quoted comments as they line up with how I felt this team looks and it's results.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scott7975

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't think McD has lost the locker room at all. If he had then this team wouldn't still be playing their asses off.  I also think he is a good coach.  I just don't think he is good enough.  I didn't buy into everything Dunne was selling on his personal opinion but I did share some of it and I believe a lot of the quoted comments as they line up with how I felt this team looks and it's results.

He may have gone as far as he can with this team.  I’m just fearful the replacement would be worse.

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He may have gone as far as he can with this team.  I’m just fearful the replacement would be worse.

 

 I think we are fine as along as we have Josh Allen.  Who knows.  Maybe the Bills make a run here.  It's still possible.  They have the talent.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

what. 

a.

mess.

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

He isn't necessarily a better source.  I would have preferred hearing some actual quotes though and not a general statement like that.  General statements don't move my needle.

Anonymous sources don’t move mine. Especially when the author had preexisting beef with the the target of the article

Edited December 10, 2023 by NewEra

[TrentEdwardsCheckDownOn4th]

6 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Allen is not going to trash McDermott publicly during the 2023 season.

 

Even though I have finally come to my senses about the HC, I'm glad the QB is avoiding the issue publicly. It's the classy, correct move. He might be stuck with the guy, at the very least through the rest of this season. They do still have a chance to do something special and get to 7-6, then 8-6, and so on. So no one should read into his lack of public commentary, yet. 

 

I think most Bills fans are similarly interpreting Diggs' stuff from last year's playoff game and from this year's start of TC, and now understanding Allen's silence to be a different way of handling the same concerns. And I commend Allen if that is in fact the case. Gotta leave the door open for this season to be salvaged one week at a time. Not even addressing the McD smoke is his best way to do that off the field, for now.

I pretty much agree with all of your post and think you're right about Diggs, we are starting to see exactly why hes been upset.  The only thing I disagree with is that I don't commend allen at all for handling it quietly.  Allen is like Patrick mahommes or Lebron james, he is one of the biggest superstars in sports, he can pretty much demand any personnel change . If he was vocal like Diggs we could have had a different coach to start this season and then maybe we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in now.

[finn]

So evidently in the 13-second game, McDermott a) seized the play calling; b) called the soft defense that lost the game; d) refused to take responsibility; and 3) implicitly blamed the players and other coaches. Wow. 

 

And this insecure, uptight man, far more scared of losing than intent on winning, is the head coach of a generational Bills team. 

 

Do we prefer losing out and ridding ourselves of this man or winning out and being saddled with him forever? How about a compromise: The players approach him with a bargain: We won't turn on you, but you take a back seat on this team. Go along for the ride or get out. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

7 hours ago, Process said:

 

Allen prob sick of being McD’s whipping boy.  He’s prob heard McD tell him so much about how he’s “got

to be smarter than that”.  This is Josh’s way of telling McD the same in return.

[Beast]

6 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

How's that Buffalo Bills brand doin?

 

 

As long as the “Buffalo Bill brand” has Josh Allen they will be doing just fine.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Beast

[davefan66]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I don't think McD has lost the locker room at all. If he had then this team wouldn't still be playing their asses off.  I also think he is a good coach.  I just don't think he is good enough.  I didn't buy into everything Dunne was selling on his personal opinion but I did share some of it and I believe a lot of the quoted comments as they line up with how I felt this team looks and it's results.

They are professionals and will continue to play.  Doesn’t implicitly mean they support him.

 

Anyways, it only takes a few to not play their best.  Wouldn’t happen purposely most likely, but it is normal for people to not be their best under management they don’t like.  Just look at everyday life.

 

Regardless, this seasons results and the issues of the past should be all that is needed for Pegula to make a decision.

[wettlaufer]

10 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I don't understand the need for an ad hominem attack.   You don't know me, my character, what I've done...

 

In any case, I've admitted in this thread that (1) I likewise don't know Dunne personally or his character, (2) I don't believe Dunne presented anything as factual that wasn't factual, (3) I do believe Dunne believed every word that he wrote, and (4) I don't actually know what McD is like on the practice field, in the locker room or the training facility.

 

But here's what bugs me: Dunne's judged the man.   For example, he writes, "Coaches see a boss who preaches accountability while taking none himself."  It's one thing to criticize a coach's tactical decisions, another thing altogether to attack the person.  And Dunne doesn't have the right to speak for the coaches -  I am certain that there are Bills coaches who would disagree with Dunne's characterization.  

 

I'm not sure if McD is a good enough coach to get us a Lombardi.  Maybe he is "tight" and has some of the other shortcomings Dunne described.  But when Dunne stoops to character assassination, which I've seen in quotes from the article, I'm not a fan.  Neither is Micah Hyde.  And, btw, Sherfield says Hyde was speaking for the team when he rebutted Dunne.  

 

But I'm not sticking up for McD as much as I'm sticking up for human respect and kindness.  I don't believe in attacking people.  It's a crappy thing to do.  And I don't need to read 20,000 words to know that.  If a criminal robs 20,000 people, I don't need to witness every theft to know I'm not a fan.  

 

It's lightly sarcastic. Sorry, I didn't know you are so fragile.

 

The one quote you chose is about accountability. McD took none after 13 seconds and he's been replaying that evasion since.

 

I was pretty sure you didn't read the piece. Thank you for confirming. That's lazy and not thorough. You have few grounds to complain about the article without doing the work. 

[Starr Almighty]

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

 

As we know Andy is a great judge of character. 

😂😂😂

[beebe]

It wasn't really support haha. He just said he's a good person.

 

“None of us talk during the week. That’s just how it goes. We’re all so busy doing our thing. I can just tell you Sean McDermott is a heck of a human being. That’s what I do know,” Reid said.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Anonymous sources don’t move mine. Especially when the author had preexisting beef with the the target of the article

Thats fine.  Thats your opinion.  Whats the preexisting beef though?  How dare you not approve my media credentials, ima get you ya sum B word!

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

18 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Thats fine.  Thats your opinion.  Whats the preexisting beef though?  How dare you not approve my media credentials, ima get you ya sum B word!

Tyler?

[The 9 Isles]

Why is it always the bills as the butt of the joke. 
 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by The 9 Isles

[wppete]

This is pretty bad, even SNL is making fun of MCDermott. I don’t he last past this season unless he wins the superbowl.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

7 minutes ago, The 9 Isles said:

Why is it always the bills as the butt of the joke. 
 

 

It’s that “Billsey” thing rearing it’s head again, this organization has become somewhat infamous for “Billsey”  occurrences, over the years of its existence, this is just the latest incident in the long line of such “Billsey” happenings.  Don’t sweat it, there is nothing we can do about it.

 

 

GO BILLS!!!!

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

Thats fine.  Thats your opinion.  Whats the preexisting beef though?  How dare you not approve my media credentials, ima get you ya sum B word!

 

I don't know if Dunne has a 'pre-existing beef' as such, but fired Bills Director of Player Personnel Jim Monos does a regular report for him so they're apparently tight, and he's said to be close to  Bills CEO Russ Brandon (who resigned or was forced to resign after an internal investigation) and fired Bills General Manager Doug Whaley.   None of these guys have found NFL work after the Bills moved on from them.

 

He also hosted a podcast with former Bills WR Isaiah McKenzie who was "beefy" - he was benched by McDermott, felt he wasn't used or targeted appropriately last season, and finally was cut after the signing of Deonte Harty.

 

One line of thought is if your friends and associates have beef, you're more likely to have beef.

The Bills didn't credential Dunne as media, but technically he isn't media - he's an independent 'content creator'.  They don't credential the Cover1 guys and other independent 'content creators' either.  Some may think that's unfair, but there are some differences - reporters who work for media like TBN, AP, etc are supposed to have journalistic standards where they have multiple sources and verify, and editorial ovesight as a 'check and balance'.  I think this standard is actually a bit 'loosy goosy' with some media who are credentialed, but that's the theory.

Anyway, the point is, Dunne isn't being singled out, this is apparently a consistent Bills policy.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Beck Water

[Nextmanup]

That little SNL news update is HILARIOUS.

 

How f-in stupid and in your own little bubble do you have to be to launch into that speech in front of dozens of people?

 

It's not poor judgment; it's just f-ing stupid.

 

 

[boyst]

58 minutes ago, The 9 Isles said:

Why is it always the bills as the butt of the joke. 
 

 

SNL has been the lowest form of humor for a decade. They sank to new lows in the last 5-6 years. The news segment was gold. Norm McDonald was great with it. Now it's just a joke of itself. 

[Nextmanup]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:55 PM, TheFunPolice said:

These quotes from Deadpsin make the 9/11 story sound even more legit, because they try to explain why McDermott might have tried to use that example. Not the type of thing you would include in a totally made-up hit piece: 

 

Players who spoke anonymously to Dunne were taken aback by the “horrible, horrible reference.” One coach added that McDermott “doesn’t have bad intentions. He’s just so clueless that he couldn’t believe that it was a big deal when the players were losing their minds.”

 

Other players tried to rationalize it from McDermott’s perspective. “In his brain it was, ‘If evil can accomplish this, then imagine what we can accomplish’ doing things the right way. The message was just f—ked up.”

 

 

To me, this sounds 100% believable. 

Do you not know Ty Dunne?  He's an excellent, well respected, real journalist (with a formal education on how to be one) who doesn't just "make stuff up."

 

You know, he's just like Jerry Sullivan in that regard.  

 

Of course, lots of followers here will forever hate guys like this because they tell the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts.

 

 

 

 

[Rico]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Do you not know Ty Dunne?  He's an excellent, well respected, real journalist (with a formal education on how to be one) who doesn't just "make stuff up."

 

You know, he's just like Jerry Sullivan in that regard.  

 

Of course, lots of followers here will forever hate guys like this because they tell the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts.

 

 

 

 

This HACK is no Sully.

No way Sully would rely on a clown like Doug Whaley for his material.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Rico

[eme123]

11 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Do you not know Ty Dunne?  He's an excellent, well respected, real journalist (with a formal education on how to be one) who doesn't just "make stuff up."

 

You know, he's just like Jerry Sullivan in that regard.  

 

Of course, lots of followers here will forever hate guys like this because they tell the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts.

 

 

 

 

We dont know Dunne. Thats the point. In his formal education he learned to properly cite sources. It was most likely in high school like the rest of us. A writer is asking the reader for alot of trust when dealing with the anonymous. 

[LABILLBACKER]

23 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

That little SNL news update is HILARIOUS.

 

How f-in stupid and in your own little bubble do you have to be to launch into that speech in front of dozens of people?

 

It's not poor judgment; it's just f-ing stupid.

 

 

I've said this for several years. You can be a high character guy, yet still be incredibly stupid. And unfortunately for our team, that's where McDermott falls.  Nice guy who makes stupid decisions late in games.  You're not winning SB's with that combination. 

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Do you not know Ty Dunne?  He's an excellent, well respected, real journalist (with a formal education on how to be one) who doesn't just "make stuff up."

 

You know, he's just like Jerry Sullivan in that regard.  

 

Of course, lots of followers here will forever hate guys like this because they tell the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts.

 

 

 

 

Literally nothing you say on the subject can be taken with any seriousness.  You’re one of a handful of people here who revel in the negativity, it’s like literally your primary purpose here.  And this article is like your crowds Xmas

Edited December 10, 2023 by Alphadawg7

[YoloinOhio]

 Rex, Randy moss, shefter on their pristine high horses about this right now. Sam ponder got it right imo. 

[4merper4mer]

8 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I've said this for several years. You can be a high character guy, yet still be incredibly stupid. And unfortunately for our team, that's where McDermott falls.  Nice guy who makes stupid decisions late in games.  You're not winning SB's with that combination. 

Please list for me the humans on planet Earth that haven’t said something incredibly stupid in the last four years.  I’ll hang up and listen.

[Billsfan1972]

I've been invested in this thread, but enough is enough.

 

The people who support McD feel it necessary to attack Dunne. 

 

Dunne wrote an exhaustive piece, that true may not portray McD in the best light, but to question the content and attack him I don't get (personally feels it is out of the MAGA playbook to me).

 

Not a single thing has been refuted.

 

As I said me & 95% of Bills fans had no idea who McD was when hired and all we wanted was the Bills to win.

 

Sorry that I decided half way through year one that I was not buying the "Process" and felt there was too many religious references that I had issues with.

 

On the field, yep I too admit a very strong bias to the offensive side and think McD has done everything he can to neuter it.

 

I too think he has not maximized Josh Allen over the years and this year's issues on offense are attributed to him.  

 

And let's not get into the game day decisions.  

 

12 men is 100% all on him.  Yes the Bills would have escaped with the win and be 7-5.  He did not take accountability as he too did not with 13 seconds.  That is not a leader imo.