Joe Brady on the Allen/Davis Miscommunication

[GETTOTHE50]

I dont have the stomach to rewatch the play again.. but its more davis' fault, than allens, or joe's.

 

Allen made the correct read on the zero blitz, but davis didnt. only thing allen couldve done better was to tell the wideouts what to expect during presnap.

 

davis could have read the defense himself and saw the opportunity for it what it was, but he didnt.

 

id be surprised if they hadnt practiced this exact scenario in the past but idk anymore with how poorly this team plays.

 

joe is slightly at fault for not putting diggs where davis was, or anyone else for that matter.

 

in the end, it falls on davis, he wasnt prepared.

 

and i am prepared for him to gtfo asap

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

34 minutes ago, akcash said:

Doesn’t this guy just look the part of the next great young head coach?

 

Yes and I actually thought about that.  If McD goes I want Joe B staying with Josh Allen.

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

So I guess we dont need any coaches at all then?  What do you think a coaches job is?  Its more than just calling plays bro.  Maybe you think its just coincidence that the offense has been way better since the firing.  I assure you that Joe B is using the same playbook and we are still running the same plays.  

Geez ‘Bro’! I simply disagree with you. That must happen from time to time. No? Now to answer your question it doesn’t mean we don’t need coaches but when you’re a veteran professional you better not be relying on coaches to teach you how to do sit-ups. I have no idea what profession you’re in but I bet you don’t have someone reminding you of basic skills and assignments you should have worked out with your teammates long ago. I’m praying you’re not a fireman! 😉

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Geez ‘Bro’! I simply disagree with you. That must happen from time to time. No? Now to answer your question it doesn’t mean we don’t need coaches but when you’re a veteran professional you better not be relying on coaches to teach you how to do sit-ups. I have no idea what profession you’re in but I bet you don’t have someone reminding you of basic skills and assignments you should have worked out with your teammates long ago. I’m praying you’re not a fireman! 😉

 

Dont take it so harsh.  As for the rest, no I am not a fireman and I am also disabled retired, but I would say my job was important enough that if I did it poorly people would get hurt.  I didn't have coaches. Regardless of vet or pro or rookie, its still a coaches job to fix the problem.  If the problem is two people are often not on the same page then it is the coaches job to find out why and fix it.  It doesn't matter how long these players have been together or how "basic" you think that problem is.  It's still a coaches job to do that.

 

If you really want an example of my real world job analogy would be... I would be more like the coach in this scenario because I was the head of an industrial maintenance department. For a "basic" thing is when equipment fails, there is a "basic" lockdown procedure to ensure the safety of the people before any work is done.  It doesn't matter how long people have been on the job.  Be it brand new out of training or in the field for 20 years.  These people always skip procedure to save time.  I make sure they don't.  If they do then they will be retrained to not do that.  Thats part of my job.  I also made sure that even though they all know this information, they got recertified in training and testing every year.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The ***** part is (I know it’s easy to say from tv) the dude was wide open, just throw it to him. Didn’t even need the option nobody was back there. Just put it on him. I know that’s not the play but sheesh

How can you “put it right on him” when you don’t know what direction he’s running? Gabe broke towards the pylon right as Allen threw the ball.

 

If they knew a zero blitz was coming, then yes ultimately it’s Brady’s fault, but Allen and Davis take blame too. Those two have had a bunch of miscommunications like that. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

6 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

How can you “put it right on him” when you don’t know what direction he’s running? Gabe broke towards the pylon right as Allen threw the ball.

 

If they knew a zero blitz was coming, then yes ultimately it’s Brady’s fault, but Allen and Davis take blame too. Those two have had a bunch of miscommunications like that. 

I know, it’s hard to blame anyone it was just a tough spot all around. Just have to mane stops. We had several leads and 2 possessions at times. It’s all on the defense to me. Zero chance I’m blaming anything on this offense 

[Freddie's Dead]

Tells me Brady is a standup guy.  He takes responsibility for an error, which is a breath of fresh air compared to the lame excuses from the rest of the staff and the HC.

[Dr.Sack]

This coach is great. A great coach takes accountability for the failure of his operation. McDermott should be taking notes from this guy who is 15 years younger.

[boyst]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

1. I have no idea what the reference is. 
 

B.  Did you just call me old, you ***** cow fister??

1. fast times

2. at ridgemont

3. forrest gump

4. high

 

B. yes. old. we are old.

[SoCal Deek]

9 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Dont take it so harsh.  As for the rest, no I am not a fireman and I am also disabled retired, but I would say my job was important enough that if I did it poorly people would get hurt.  I didn't have coaches. Regardless of vet or pro or rookie, its still a coaches job to fix the problem.  If the problem is two people are often not on the same page then it is the coaches job to find out why and fix it.  It doesn't matter how long these players have been together or how "basic" you think that problem is.  It's still a coaches job to do that.

 

If you really want an example of my real world job analogy would be... I would be more like the coach in this scenario because I was the head of an industrial maintenance department. For a "basic" thing is when equipment fails, there is a "basic" lockdown procedure to ensure the safety of the people before any work is done.  It doesn't matter how long people have been on the job.  Be it brand new out of training or in the field for 20 years.  These people always skip procedure to save time.  I make sure they don't.  If they do then they will be retrained to not do that.  Thats part of my job.  I also made sure that even though they all know this information, they got recertified in training and testing every year.

Scott…if you’re enough to be retired, you should be old enough to know how people will react if you toss the word ‘bro’ at others. With that said, I go back to my original comment….this team is unprepared and the throw to Davis is just another example, regardless of whose fault it is. As I’m sure you’ll agree, the real measuring stick is will anyone at OBD learn from these mistakes. I’m betting on not. 

[Buckets]

G Davis, 6 catches, 105 yards. Yeah he sucks!!

OH and a TD.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Buckets

[JESSEFEFFER]

It could very well be that the rules for running that route have conflicts that were never resolved.  Gabe might be taught that leverage trumps the zero blitz read.  Josh might be taught to make the throw before he can even read the leverage and that the open middle of the field means that's where the throw goes.  The defender may have been inside but Gabe was by him so early that all options were then open.  Maybe Josh needs to take another split second to know for sure where Gabe is going.  There are likely coaching elements to that situation that demand clarity.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Scott…if you’re enough to be retired, you should be old enough to know how people will react if you toss the word ‘bro’ at others. With that said, I go back to my original comment….this team is unprepared and the throw to Davis is just another example, regardless of whose fault it is. As I’m sure you’ll agree, the real measuring stick is will anyone at OBD learn from these mistakes. I’m betting on not. 

sorry. I don’t use bro as derogatory. I use it as  friendly. 

[T master]

14 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Uh oh, it's not Gabe's fault.  

 

Hmmm.  Now what?  

 

 

 

 

 

Then that means it's McD's fault so he needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY !!! Just ask those haters here ...

[C.Biscuit97]

It is hilarious watching fans make judgments on what player was wrong 5 minutes after the game.

 

and Brady has done a great job. Still a bunch of games left but he has definitely be a great revelation.

[Thurman#1]

14 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Thank you....at this point I don't want Gabe involved in any deep blitz plays.  This team has more reliable options.  And I don't care how many people step in and take the blame.  I'm convinced in a "blitz 0" you don't have time for routes involving cuts.  It should've been a straight fly and turn around.  And that's what Josh threw.

 

 

He was open. The situation was ambiguous.

 

They had time for a route involving cuts on that very play.

[PBF81]

28 minutes ago, T master said:

 

Then that means it's McD's fault so he needs to be fired IMMEDIATELY !!! Just ask those haters here ...

 

No doubt.

 

We know that McD doesn't have anything to do with any of it.  

 

He's just a neutral bystander that's created an elusively defined "winning culture.". 

 

Things should be running themselves by now based upon the foundation that he's created.  

 

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

No doubt.

 

We know that McD doesn't have anything to do with any of it.  

 

He's just a neutral bystander that's created an elusively defined "winning culture.". 

 

Things should be running themselves by now based upon the foundation that he's created.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah.

 

The way things are running themselves based on the way Belichick - the GOAT - created his foundation.

 

And nobody's saying that McD doesn't have anything to do with it. He deserves his share of the blame. Oh, wait, no, I forgot, he deserves all of it. It's all his fault. I totally forgot the conventional wisdom. When things go well, it's because we've got Allen. But when they're bad, it's because we've got McDermott. How could I have forgotten?

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Thurman#1

[ProcessTruster]

16 hours ago, MJS said:

Joe Marino came to the conclusion that it was probably Josh Allen's fault. But he had a split second to make that decision given the pressure. So, it is what it is.

Plus everyone forgets that G-d awful Josh 4th Qtr  pick on his own 24 that set up the Philly short field go-ahead touchdown.  Totally swung all the momentum of the game.   No way he should have thrown that; look at the replay:  that one is on Josh.   I could argue Josh lost the game right there.  

 

But hey,  Josh is amazing and lets fire the entire coaching staff bc we lost.  

 

Fans are morons.  

[34-78-83]

14 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

I dont have the stomach to rewatch the play again.. but its more davis' fault, than allens, or joe's.

 

Allen made the correct read on the zero blitz, but davis didnt. only thing allen couldve done better was to tell the wideouts what to expect during presnap.

 

davis could have read the defense himself and saw the opportunity for it what it was, but he didnt.

 

id be surprised if they hadnt practiced this exact scenario in the past but idk anymore with how poorly this team plays.

 

joe is slightly at fault for not putting diggs where davis was, or anyone else for that matter.

 

in the end, it falls on davis, he wasnt prepared.

 

and i am prepared for him to gtfo asap

 

 

 

it's not "more Davis' fault though. Why? Because the corner had inside leverage, so outside is the correct option read by Davis.

 

Am I freaking out at Allen over this split second decision? No

 

Would I like to see Brady implement some shorter/quicker "zero blitz" options for the WR's on plays like this? Yes

Edited November 29, 2023 by 34-78-83

[PBF81]

34 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah.

 

The way things are running themselves based on the way Belichick - the GOAT - created his foundation.

 

And nobody's saying that McD doesn't have anything to do with it. He deserves his share of the blame. Oh, wait, no, I forgot, he deserves all of it. It's all his fault. I totally forgot the conventional wisdom. When things go well, it's because we've got Allen. But when they're bad, it's because we've got McDermott. How could I have forgotten?

 

Agreed.  Giving the head coach too much blame makes no sense.  

 

It more falls onto the position coaches.  

 

... except when things go well that is.  

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by PBF81

[ShakAttack]

The only thing I didn't like about it is knowing you have to make a decision on the fly in a Blitz zero situation, why did we rely on an option route in the first place?  I feel like we should have ran a play vs. blitz zero where all the routes are concrete.  Joe Brady is awesome, but that is one play call I find myself wondering about.

[DCofNC]

16 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

For me it depends.  If he is resigned cheap and they draft someone high in a WR deep draft then Im ok with that.  If they resign Davis to a big contract and don't draft someone then I think that is a mistake.  I dont think Gabe is as bad as people make him out to be, including myself, but I also think we need to improve there.  Davis drops too many balls for me and I think he and Josh, regardless of whose fault it actually is, is just not on the same page too often.

Im ok with what you’re saying, but why is it, when there’s a “miscommunication” the ball is almost ALWAYS intended for Davis?  I can’t believe the rest of the guys just know what Josh is thinking every time, there’s something to it.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

16 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

He gets it..

We might be only 13 seconds from a Lombardi 

 

 

Not if McD can help it

17 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I already liked this guy way more than Dorsey.  Now I love this guy way more than Dorsey.  He actually tries to fix the problems instead of just status quo hoping people stop making mistakes.

 

Refreshing to hear. If it was McD, we might've heard that he didn't get what he wanted but someone else forgot to relay the message. 

[GoBills808]

34 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

it's not "more Davis' fault though. Why? Because the corner had inside leverage, so outside is the correct option read by Davis.

 

Am I freaking out at Allen over this split second decision? No

 

Would I like to see Brady implement some shorter/quicker "zero blitz" options for the WR's on plays like this? Yes

Did anyone confirm this part? curious tbh

 

He stacks him right at the 13 which is when Allen lets the ball go, post is an easier throw/catch vs zero than corner

 

there's no leverage once DBs hips flip

[Ray Stonada]

25 minutes ago, BobBelcher said:

The only thing I didn't like about it is knowing you have to make a decision on the fly in a Blitz zero situation, why did we rely on an option route in the first place?  I feel like we should have ran a play vs. blitz zero where all the routes are concrete.  Joe Brady is awesome, but that is one play call I find myself wondering about.

I think there are too many option routes in our offense in general… too many plays go wrong because of a WR reading it differently than Allen 

[34-78-83]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Did anyone confirm this part? curious tbh

 

He stacks him right at the 13 which is when Allen lets the ball go, post is an easier throw/catch vs zero than corner

 

there's no leverage once DBs hips flip

I felt like it was visually obvious that the Cb had inside position on the play.

 

I would agree with you that the post is the easier throw and catch outside of the positioning.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

I felt like it was visually obvious that the Cb had inside position on the play.

 

I would agree with you that the post is the easier throw and catch outside of the positioning.

I think it's a switch release so yes, DB is always going to be inside the wideout in that situation but again once Davis stacks him he wins either way

[zow2]

That overhead replay is so hard to watch.. ugh, Davis got the DB to stumble and he was wide open.  The WIN was right there.  The safer throw would seem to be the outside far corner where Gabe was running towards.  That's one of those throws where either Gabe catches it or no one.  So I can't really tell who was in the wrong here.

 

There was another pass to Gabe (i can't remember when?) but it was 3rd down I believe and Allen hit the DB in the backside instead of throwing it over the top to Gabe who had a step.

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, zow2 said:

That overhead replay is so hard to watch.. ugh, Davis got the DB to stumble and he was wide open.  The WIN was right there.  The safer throw would seem to be the outside far corner where Gabe was running towards.  That's one of those throws where either Gabe catches it or no one.  So I can't really tell who was in the wrong here.

 

There was another pass to Gabe (i can't remember when?) but it was 3rd down I believe and Allen hit the DB in the backside instead of throwing it over the top to Gabe who had a step.

watch Diggs after the pass is thrown

 

he's watching Davis and motions inside w his arm

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

That overhead replay is so hard to watch.. ugh, Davis got the DB to stumble and he was wide open.  The WIN was right there.  The safer throw would seem to be the outside far corner where Gabe was running towards.  That's one of those throws where either Gabe catches it or no one.  So I can't really tell who was in the wrong here.

 

There was another pass to Gabe (i can't remember when?) but it was 3rd down I believe and Allen hit the DB in the backside instead of throwing it over the top to Gabe who had a step.

 

 

Yeah it's a shame that they are this far into their career together and this deep into the season and aren't on the same page.   Gabe makes a bunch of inexcusable mistakes because he's just not very good........but every time you see stuff like this you also gotta' wonder about Allen's offseasons.    Where Mahomes built a compound in Texas where he meets with his receivers to work on their routes/timing periodically in the offseason.........Allen is all about rest and relaxation.    This season has been an inexplicable cluster*ck of bad execution despite it being the same system since 2018.    

[BullBuchanan]

17 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

A coach taking ownership. 
 

Not used to hearing that from our head coach 

 

I applause Joe Brady for that

We aren't?

"That starts with me." is practically tattooed on McDermott's forehead.

[zow2]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah it's a shame that they are this far into their career together and this deep into the season and aren't on the same page.   Gabe makes a bunch of inexcusable mistakes because he's just not very good........but every time you see stuff like this you also gotta' wonder about Allen's offseasons.    Where Mahomes built a compound in Texas where he meets with his receivers to work on their routes/timing periodically in the offseason.........Allen is all about rest and relaxation.    This season has been an inexplicable cluster*ck of bad execution despite it being the same system since 2018.    

 

There's one thing separating the Bills with teams like KC and Philly, and it's kind of an intangible.   The DNA makeup of the Buffalo Bills does not include the clutch gene.  They can compile some of the best offensive numbers the league has ever seen,  They have an incredible knockout punch against mediocre teams... and the defense can use smoke and mirrors to be top 5 in all sorts of categories.  But the team is not clutch when it counts.  and I don't know how that gets fixed.

[GoBills808]

If you have all22 just watch Diggs immediately after he sees Allen release the ball, he's begging Davis to break inside

 

pry obvious Davis was supposed to run post imo, presnap alert to cover0, Allen waits for 21 to vacate MOF and come down into box for snap

[Alphadawg7]

18 hours ago, MJS said:

Joe Marino came to the conclusion that it was probably Josh Allen's fault. But he had a split second to make that decision given the pressure. So, it is what it is.

 

It can not be on Allen though, he had to throw the ball before Davis made any break and the WR has the option to go corner or inside, so Allen has to go where he thinks Davis is going to choose based on the coverage.  Doesn't really make either guy wrong, its part of the risk with a WR option when a QB is forced to throw before the break.  Most plays there is more clear choice, on this one, it was pick a direction they are both easy TD's.

 

Based on the look at the time Allen threw it, inside is where it looked like Davis "should" go.  That also doesn't mean its Davis fault either, but I think the bigger issue is that next time, there needs to be a predetermined understanding of where to break on that look vs an option.  

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

 

There's one thing separating the Bills with teams like KC and Philly, and it's kind of an intangible.   The DNA makeup of the Buffalo Bills does not include the clutch gene.  They can compile some of the best offensive numbers the league has ever seen,  They have an incredible knockout punch against mediocre teams... and the defense can use smoke and mirrors to be top 5 in all sorts of categories.  But the team is not clutch when it counts.  and I don't know how that gets fixed.

My guess is that what "clutch" really is in the current NFL is having a high level of offensive self awareness.  And this is something you won't get from a defensive minded coach in the same way you do from an offensive minded one.

 

And what does a high level of offensive self awareness mean:

 

*  First, it's recognizing when you have THAT guy at QB.  The Bills have shown that they have this level of offensive self awareness.

 

*  Then once you know you have that guy, Free Agency and the draft are focused against surrounding their elite QB with the best possible talent.  The Bills ave FAILED to do this.

 

*  In game situations it's understanding when to press things offensively and knowing when to hold back. This includes when to go for it on 4th down and how to approach end of the half/late game situations. During games the Bills repeatedly show that they lack this level of offensive self awareness.

 

So what to do? Fire McD and replace him with an offensive minded HC.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, BobBelcher said:

The only thing I didn't like about it is knowing you have to make a decision on the fly in a Blitz zero situation, why did we rely on an option route in the first place?  I feel like we should have ran a play vs. blitz zero where all the routes are concrete.  Joe Brady is awesome, but that is one play call I find myself wondering about.

 

I think part of the issue is that this isn't really Joe Bradys system yet.  For example, Leonard Fournette said this was by far the most complicated passing system he has ever seen and would take a while to get up to speed (Dorsey was OC when he was signed).  And there was many direct references to how complicated our system is where WR's often have 5 options on a route.

 

But I have no doubt Brady is going to adjust this in future situations.  IMHO Brady is crushing it so far...only 2 games...but I have been very impressed with him during games and in his interviews thus far.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I think part of the issue is that this isn't really Joe Bradys system yet.  For example, Leonard Fournette said this was by far the most complicated passing system he has ever seen and would take a while to get up to speed (Dorsey was OC when he was signed).  And there was many direct references to how complicated our system is where WR's often have 5 options on a route.

 

But I have no doubt Brady is going to adjust this in future situations.  IMHO Brady is crushing it so far...only 2 games...but I have been very impressed with him during games and in his interviews thus far.  

 

Its very similar to the NE patriots offense that was run with brady.  Motion can change route combinations, leverage can adjust route direction and depth, same plays can be run out of multiple formations, etc.  When its working it almost feels like you can't do anything to stop it.  When its not, the QB is double clutching all the time and receivers seem to be in the wrong spots.  

 

Part of the reason edelman was so successful there was because he was a QB prior to playing WR.  

[Shaw66]

Brady's exactly right: it's on him.  Except that he's only been on the job for two weeks.  

 

The failure of that play was a training issue, and the necessary training takes place in the off-season and continues into the season.  Allen and Davis have to KNOW what to do on that play, know every little aspect of it, and beyond knowing they have to actually do it when the time comes.   Someone screwed up because he wasn't well enough trained, and that problem is an offensive coordinator problem.  It's his job to be sure that his coaches - the QB coach and the wide receiver coach - are holding their players to the appropriate high standard. 

 

During the broadcast, Romo was emphatic about it being Davis's mistake.   He was talking about what he was trained to do, so it might not be the same for the Bills, but he said that going deep against single coverage, when he beats the coverage the wide receiver must look back and find the ball BEFORE making his cut.   If Davis had looked back, he would have tracked the ball into the end zone to win the game.   If that's right, then Davis wasn't trained well enough, and that's on Dorsey and the wide receivers' coach.  Brady was correct organizationally - it's on the OC, but in his defense, he wasn't the OC when Davis should have been drilled about this.  

 

People point to the Davis mistake as another tally on the condemn-Davis ledger.   Yes, it belongs on that side of the ledger, but there was a lot of excellent play from Davis in that game that goes on the other side.  

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

So to Brady's quote "we knew this was coming".  This would have actually been a VERY GOOD use of a time out to ensure everyone was on the same page for this HUGE situation.  Seems like so many of our time outs are reactionary ("let's look at how they're gonna line up first"), silly ("Let's try to draw them Offside to get a first down") or wasted ("I'm gonna ice their kicker.  That's definitely gonna work").

But on a 3rd & 6 from their 22 in overtime where we potentially have 2 plays to get 6 yards, and we're sure what defense we're gonna see and which requires all pieces know how to react...