How To Defend The Eagles QB Sneak

[Bookie Man]

I don't think they've been stopped with 1 yard to go when using this play so far. Basically undefendable. A HUGE advantage that you're guaranteed a 1st down whenever you face 3rd or 4th and short. But there HAS to be a way.. right? The best way I can think to battle that play would be come up with a whole new different defensive front. You need to get as big and as strong as possible. Leave the normal goal line DLine in. But sub out LB's and put Torrence and Dawkins in. And have them right on the butts of the DT. And when the ball is snapped they just plow into the pile and try and push it back or create a roadblock of sorts. Almost like a reverse tug of war... A push of war? And once you've stalemated the push, you can have guys jumping over the pile, like you see now, and try and drag Hurts down. To stop something innovative like their version of the Qb sneak, you need to be innovative yourself. Could this work? Does anyone have any other ideas?

[DuckyBoys]

dont let them get 9 yards

[Mikie2times]

If they want to pull that on the 1 yard line it would be worth of few personal fouls. Just sayin. 

[DapperCam]

Don’t let them get to 3rd/4th and short.

[PatsFanNH]

1 minute ago, Alpo Chino said:

I don't think they've been stopped with 1 yard to go when using this play so far. Basically undefendable. A HUGE advantage that you're guaranteed a 1st down whenever you face 3rd or 4th and short. But there HAS to be a way.. right? The best way I can think to battle that play would be come up with a whole new different defensive front. You need to get as big and as strong as possible. Leave the normal goal line DLine in. But sub out LB's and put Torrence and Dawkins in. And have them right on the butts of the DT. And when the ball is snapped they just plow into the pile and try and push it back or create a roadblock of sorts. Almost like a reverse tug of war... A push of war? And once you've stalemated the push, you can have guys jumping over the pile, like you see now, and try and drag Hurts down. To stop something innovative like their version of the Qb sneak, you need to be innovative yourself. Could this work? Does anyone have any other ideas?

Some QBs are just excellent at the QB Sneak. I know as a Pats fan anything 3rd or 4th and 1 Brady would probably pick it up.  Others stink at it.. (see Jones, Mac)

[The Frankish Reich]

1 minute ago, Alpo Chino said:

I don't think they've been stopped with 1 yard to go when using this play so far. Basically undefendable. A HUGE advantage that you're guaranteed a 1st down whenever you face 3rd or 4th and short. But there HAS to be a way.. right? The best way I can think to battle that play would be come up with a whole new different defensive front. You need to get as big and as strong as possible. Leave the normal goal line DLine in. But sub out LB's and put Torrence and Dawkins in. And have them right on the butts of the DT. And when the ball is snapped they just plow into the pile and try and push it back or create a roadblock of sorts. Almost like a reverse tug of war... A push of war? And once you've stalemated the push, you can have guys jumping over the pile, like you see now, and try and drag Hurts down. To stop something innovative like their version of the Qb sneak, you need to be innovative yourself. Could this work? Does anyone have any other ideas?

I think that would be the approach when it's 3rd/4th and 1 in the red zone, or maybe within 10 or 5 yards. Hurts would have the ability to run a bootleg/option and burn you if you tried this when the Eagles are at midfield. Nobody wants to give up the 40 yard touchdown.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

If they want to pull that on the 1 yard line it would be worth of few personal fouls. Just sayin. 

I’m sure Josh would love that 

[RyanC883]

4 minutes ago, Alpo Chino said:

I don't think they've been stopped with 1 yard to go when using this play so far. Basically undefendable. A HUGE advantage that you're guaranteed a 1st down whenever you face 3rd or 4th and short. But there HAS to be a way.. right? The best way I can think to battle that play would be come up with a whole new different defensive front. You need to get as big and as strong as possible. Leave the normal goal line DLine in. But sub out LB's and put Torrence and Dawkins in. And have them right on the butts of the DT. And when the ball is snapped they just plow into the pile and try and push it back or create a roadblock of sorts. Almost like a reverse tug of war... A push of war? And once you've stalemated the push, you can have guys jumping over the pile, like you see now, and try and drag Hurts down. To stop something innovative like their version of the Qb sneak, you need to be innovative yourself. Could this work? Does anyone have any other ideas?

 

this is actually a FANTASTIC idea.  A reverse toosh push.  Get the strongest OL to push Joseph and whoever else is a big DL on the inside.  Just tug of war or rugby scrum down there.  

2 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I think that would be the approach when it's 3rd/4th and 1 in the red zone, or maybe within 10 or 5 yards. Hurts would have the ability to run a bootleg/option and burn you if you tried this when the Eagles are at midfield. Nobody wants to give up the 40 yard touchdown.

 

have a CB on the outside each way.  Perhaps every Harty or whoever is the quickest and could bring Hurts down/contain him.  

[TOboy]

Rather just take my chances with Linval Joseph in the middle now. 

[sven233]

There have been a lot of attempts to stop this play and nobody has been able to do it.  The only time it didn't work was when Hurtz fumbled the ball.  But if they execute the hand off and hold onto the ball, I just don't see anyone stopping it.

 

That said, you know how to stop it?  Limit the times they actually get to 3rd and 4th and 1.  Hold them to 2-3 yards to go at least.  But, that is easier said than done.  I think you just have to chalk the play up to a loss when it happens, unfortunately.  They have been running it with a 100% success rate for 2 years.  Our undersized line isn't going to suddenly be the ones to magically stop it, unfortunately.

 

The good news is that there are anywhere from 45-75 other plays we will have a chance to win on.  Win most of those and win the game.

[BearNorth]

Torrence and Joseph would be some serious beef in the trench.

[Since1981]

Agree. I never understood why the teams don’t sometimes mix O and D under unusual circumstances.
 

 Gronk (Knox) as a Hail Mary defender as a supreme example.  

 

It does seem plausible that Dawkins can push DL beef as an OL. This HC is too afraid to take such a “D gamble”. Crazy talk!

Edited November 22, 2023 by Since1981

[Big Turk]

Maybe Linval Joseph can help.  He was there last year and probably went up against it in practice.  Bills run D has been stellar since he has got here, only allowing 3.1 YPC in 3 games.

[Mikie2times]

It would be funny if we rug pulled them at the last second. Those lineman would just fall over. 

[WhoTom]

QB steps up to the line, sees that defensive package, and audibles to a passing play. TD, regardless of whether it's from the 1-yard line or the 50-yard line.

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

You stop it on 1st and 2nd down. Just like any other short yardage situation. 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Agree. I never understood why the teams don’t sometimes mix O and D under unusual circumstances.
 

 Gronk (Knox) as a Hail Mary defender as a supreme example.  

 

It does seem plausible that Dawkins can push DL beef as an OL. This HC is too afraid to take such a “D gamble”. Crazy talk!

You know that Gronk famously whiffed on a last second play that lost them a game, right?

[BeastMaster]

4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

It would be funny if we rug pulled them at the last second. Those lineman would just fall over. 

That's actually an interesting move that could work if you get a shot at Hurts. You could potentially have a chance to punch or rip the ball out, or just plow him into the ground if his linemen fall forward as our guys then move back in to get Hurts.

 

It would be a one time thing, but possibly worth attempting

[FireChans]

23 minutes ago, Alpo Chino said:

I don't think they've been stopped with 1 yard to go when using this play so far. Basically undefendable. A HUGE advantage that you're guaranteed a 1st down whenever you face 3rd or 4th and short. But there HAS to be a way.. right? The best way I can think to battle that play would be come up with a whole new different defensive front. You need to get as big and as strong as possible. Leave the normal goal line DLine in. But sub out LB's and put Torrence and Dawkins in. And have them right on the butts of the DT. And when the ball is snapped they just plow into the pile and try and push it back or create a roadblock of sorts. Almost like a reverse tug of war... A push of war? And once you've stalemated the push, you can have guys jumping over the pile, like you see now, and try and drag Hurts down. To stop something innovative like their version of the Qb sneak, you need to be innovative yourself. Could this work? Does anyone have any other ideas?

The Eagles usually have some of their base personnel in when running it. What’s stopping them from audibling and laughing while Torrence tries to rush the passer?

[Big Turk]

If there is a team that could do it, it's the Bills....their D has been pretty great on short yardage situations over the last few years with multiple stuffs on 4th and 1.

 

Gotta get low...if anything maybe just dive right through and try and take the center/guards legs out so they can't down underneath you and have the backers clean it up.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Big Turk

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, FireChans said:

The Eagles usually have some of their base personnel in when running it. What’s stopping them from audibling and laughing while Torrence tries to rush the passer?

Even better question. What happens if you put someone like Torrence or Dawkins in there, ask them to do things there really isn't time to let them practice and be able to do and they get injured doing it? 

[mannc]

16 minutes ago, Since1981 said:

Agree. I never understood why the teams don’t sometimes mix O and D under unusual circumstances.
 

 Gronk (Knox) as a Hail Mary defender as a supreme example.  

 

It does seem plausible that Dawkins can push DL beef as an OL. This HC is too afraid to take such a “D gamble”. Crazy talk!

The problem is that, unless they call a time out, the defense has no opportunity to substitute, because the Eagles use their regular personnel for the play.

[Big Turk]

I'm actually waiting for some sort of play action out of this situation or a pitch out wide...could be walk in TDs with the D expecting a sneak.

[LarryMadman]

Have the D lineman stand instead of in a 3 point and when ball is snapped push O linemen down towards ground as they are already pushing towards the ground and attack Hurts, will it work? who knows but different things need to be tried.

[HOUSE]

If you beat the teams you are supposed to beat then you don't need to worry about the Eagles quarterback sneak

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I'm actually waiting for some sort of play action out of this situation or a pitch out wide...could be walk in TDs with the D expecting a sneak.

I may be mistaken, but I'm almost positive they did sort of an end around with it a few weeks back. Hurts handed it to one of the upbacks standing next to him. Pretty sure it was Philly but could have been another team.

[Fleezoid]

Get 4 of your offensive lineman, have them lay down parallel to the line of scrimmaged stacked on top of each other. Then have 4 other guys hold them in place. Lastly, one guy flies over the pile and lands on top of Hurtz. Voila!

[JESSEFEFFER]

10 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

Get 4 of your offensive lineman, have them lay down parallel to the line of scrimmaged stacked on top of each other. Then have 4 other guys hold them in place. Lastly, one guy flies over the pile and lands on top of Hurtz. Voila!

Ok.  There's a wrestling move called the "flying squirrel."  Lots of examples of it on YouTube but I linked one by Renaldo Rodriguez Spencer since he is a section VI alum having wrestled at Cheektowaga and then Iowa State.  I think that's what the man over the top needs to execute.  Maybe McD knows how to teach it.

 

Flying Squirrel

[Gunsgoodtime]

Grab them in the nuts

[JohnBonhamRocks]

If a non-goal line situation, then let their OL by you and crush Hurts a couple times. Let Joseph recreate his WWE smackdown of Burrow.

[jletha]

38 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I'm actually waiting for some sort of play action out of this situation or a pitch out wide...could be walk in TDs with the D expecting a sneak.

Theyve already done this. It did in fact score a TD

 

 

IMO the best way to stop this for goal-line specific situations, is to have Joseph or Ed get a couple yard head start, try to 100% time the snap and run into Kelce has hard as he can. If youre early, its half the distance so not much harm done. But in the process you laid a hit on Kelce and let them know that its coming again the next snap. But if you time it right you will blow the play up.

Edited November 22, 2023 by jletha

[Virgil]

One thing I noticed in the Chiefs game, is that the Eagles seem to deploy a tug-o-war trick.  They don't push immediately, but instead let the defense get some momentum and then the Eagles push back on them when their balance is off.  

 

It might be a crazy idea, but I wonder what would happen if you matched their delay.  Just pause for a split second and then go high.  

 

I could be terrible wrong

[strive_for_five_guy]

To beat the tush push, our defense needs to attack with a tush push of its own

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Some QBs are just excellent at the QB Sneak. I know as a Pats fan anything 3rd or 4th and 1 Brady would probably pick it up.  Others stink at it.. (see Jones, Mac)

Yeah, brady of QB sneaks was incredible, dont know if he was as good as the Eagles but he was smooth, just go to the line, often rush to the line and get and easy 1 yards.

[djp14150]

2 hours ago, Alpo Chino said:

I don't think they've been stopped with 1 yard to go when using this play so far. Basically undefendable. A HUGE advantage that you're guaranteed a 1st down whenever you face 3rd or 4th and short. But there HAS to be a way.. right? The best way I can think to battle that play would be come up with a whole new different defensive front. You need to get as big and as strong as possible. Leave the normal goal line DLine in. But sub out LB's and put Torrence and Dawkins in. And have them right on the butts of the DT. And when the ball is snapped they just plow into the pile and try and push it back or create a roadblock of sorts. Almost like a reverse tug of war... A push of war? And once you've stalemated the push, you can have guys jumping over the pile, like you see now, and try and drag Hurts down. To stop something innovative like their version of the Qb sneak, you need to be innovative yourself. Could this work? Does anyone have any other ideas?

On a 4th and G at 1 against Jets….QB fumbled forward…recovered by eagles…but since 4th doen it was reverted back to the 1 and Jets ball.

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yeah, brady of QB sneaks was incredible, dont know if he was as good as the Eagles but he was smooth, just go to the line, often rush to the line and get and easy 1 yards.

I googled it and per Google he had a 90.5% conversion rate.  That’s really high considering that’s over a 20 plus year career.  Like I said I think some QBs excel l,others are good, and then you have the ones who just stink at it. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

I googled it and per Google he had a 90.5% conversion rate.  That’s really high considering that’s over a 20 plus year career.  Like I said I think some QBs excel l,others are good, and then you have the ones who just stink at it. 

Agreed.

 

I have writ this sentiment here in the past and got lambasted for it.  One who historically is wildly variable in results (reflective of his overall game)  at it is Josh Allen, he can either be have and incredible effort as he did versus Dallas on Thanksgiving, just not make it like vs Jax a year ago or a disaster as he did versus Minnesota last year.

[JPL7]

I’ll tell you one thing that won’t work… PUTTING ONLY 4 DLINEMEN ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. McD (and Frazier before him) refuses to add extra dline men for some unknown god forsaken reason. It’s astonishing. 

[Bookie Man]

2 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Grab them in the nuts

[Just Jack]

Commanders are the only ones able to stop it, and they got a fumble at the same time.