Leslie Frazier on Dorsey firing, McDermott, Tre'Davious White, and his future

[Alphadawg7]

The lengths this board goes to in regards to making up false narratives to fill their bias opinions and negativity never ceases to amaze me.  

[Beast]

9 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Oh...because I don't believe in conspiracy theories?   

So, to you think Leslie will be back as our DC next season?

[JoshAllin]

12 hours ago, jkeerie said:

He was basically burnt out after all the drama of last season (e.g. Damar). 

I felt the whole team was burnt out after all that, the cinci playoff game and trickled its way down to this season possibly

Edited November 17, 2023 by motorj

[boater]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The lengths this board goes to in regards to making up false narratives to fill their bias opinions and negativity never ceases to amaze me.  

Yes. It's quite the echo chamber around here.

 

Quote

Echo Chamber: an environment where a person only encounters information or opinions that reflect and reinforce his or her own.

 

I am very glad Bills staff do not hang out here, they have better things to do.

[Utah John]

So if Frazier really did just want to take a year off, and step away, exactly what is he doing to prepare to step back in?  Does he have contacts with McBeane about how he'll transition back into the team?  HAHAHA  He quit but didn't quit the Bills.  Now McDermott has to decide whether to bring in a new DC, when he's actually the best DC candidate available.  But who's going to be the HC?  Maybe Frazier!  Maybe a complete role reversal is the way to get the team back on track.  It's pretty clear that McDermott has lost the team, but the D still loves him.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

11 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Allen does have one of the strongest arms in the league.  He can likely beat most teams with his arm alone and could become a great pocket passer, but think to do that he has to has to have a much stronger WR group around him, little better protection from the line and a better run game to keep defenses honest, and have a RB that defenses need to worry about, but is also a very strong blocker.

 

Does make me wonder the was these days league wide, RB's often don't get 2nd contracts, will the ones who start out as weak blockers ever be around long enough to develop good skills as a blocker?

Pocket passers are slowly going extinct…defensive lines are getting a little better and offensive lines getting a little worse each season 

 

qbs are gonna have to be willing to make plays with their legs 

[SoCal Deek]

36 minutes ago, boater said:

 

 

I am very glad Bills staff do not hang out here, they have better things to do.

Having watched this mess for the last month I’m dying to hear the ‘better things’ you think the Bills staff have been doing. It sure hasn’t been preparing their team to play decent football. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

7 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

Been saying this all year

No need for defenses to spy anymore , adding an extra defender in coverage

It looks like teams are spying him pretty often to me.  I think the delayed blitzes/simulated pressures have him really confused on when to run and when not to and it has rattled his confidence a bit.  That’s the adjustment that looks like it started with the jags defense and it seems like other teams have followed suit 

[T master]

When asked about how to cover Josh he even said that Josh has went from a running QB to a pocket passer & teams don't have to worry about him running so it makes him easier to cover when you don't have to worry about him running .

 

I hope Brady has read this article coming from a good D coordinator if its that obvious to him you can bet the rest of the league has noticed .

 

Release the Beast !!!

[nedboy7]

Frazier said, “It got to a point for me where I felt like this was something I needed to do at this stage in my career. That 2022 season was a challenging year with some of the things that we went through, with Damar (Hamlin) and some of the things that happened with our team (with the game being moved to Detroit and travel issues). … We were getting ready to go back to the combine and I was at home and just thinking about, man, did I want to go back for another year? I made the decision to take a year off and see what happens from there. I don’t regret the decision, but I do miss the guys."

 

How's that jive with the narrative on TBD? 

[Max Fischer]

Frazier is a class act. Wish him the best. 

7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Frazier said, “It got to a point for me where I felt like this was something I needed to do at this stage in my career. That 2022 season was a challenging year with some of the things that we went through, with Damar (Hamlin) and some of the things that happened with our team (with the game being moved to Detroit and travel issues). … We were getting ready to go back to the combine and I was at home and just thinking about, man, did I want to go back for another year? I made the decision to take a year off and see what happens from there. I don’t regret the decision, but I do miss the guys."

 

How's that jive with the narrative on TBD? 

 

Are you saying people are likely to believe what fits their viewpoint neatly? 

 

[RyanC883]

15 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Basically...he feels badly for Dorsey because he's a good friend.  He spoke with him and Dorsey is upbeat.  Says things just just didn't work out.  Optimistic for his future.  Frasier spoke about his own derparture.  He was basically burnt out after all the drama of last season (e.g. Damar).  Spoke with Tre.  He's had his surgery and is rehabbing.  They reminisced about their time together.  He thinks the team can rebound.  He picked the Bills for the Superbowl and has confidence McD can right the ship.

 

So basically none of the scapegoat crap being posted on this Board by people who choose to read between the lines without actually reading the lines as well.

 

Altogether a good positive interview.  

 

or, Frazier does not want to burn any bridges.  Why was Frazier burnt-out, yeah, read between the lines.  Working for McD, etc.  Coordinators don't last long with Captain Clappy.  

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

The lengths this board goes to in regards to making up false narratives to fill their bias opinions and negativity never ceases to amaze me.  

 

right, everything is fine.  5-5 is a total mirage.  We looked great in our last playoff appearances also.  The team is trending upwards, not downwards. 

[hondo in seattle]

14 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

FYI, Frazier has every reason not to be honest about the reason for his departure.

 

It looks a lot better to leave a team voluntarily than to be pushed out.

 

Its workforce politics 101.

 

But some people like to be honest.

 

It's human ethics 101.  

[John from Riverside]

15 hours ago, Low Positive said:

The most interesting part was when he was asked how he would defend Josh Allen as a DC. He said that if Josh is not running anymore, you can defend him like you would any other QB. 

 

“If you don’t have to worry about running and making splash plays with his legs then you’re just going to play coverage like teams have been doing,"

Been saying this for a while the offense tamed our stallion instead of letting him cut loose

 

Let Josh Allen run it opens up the rest of his game

Edited November 17, 2023 by John from Riverside

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Been saying this for a while the offense tamed our stallion instead of letting him cut loose

 

Let Josh Allen run it opens up the rest of his game

We’ve all seen the results, but can you imagine where this team (and message board) would be if Josh got hurt on some meaningless run trying to pick up a yard or two. I can understand why the coaches have done what they’ve done….but the ‘gamble’ hasn’t paid off. 

[Logic]

The thing that drives me crazy with the "reigning Josh in from running the ball" thing is this: 

Why is Josh Allen the only dangerous running QB that everyone always says "he needs to run less" about? How come you NEVER hear anyone say "Lamar Jackson needs to run the ball less and just win from the pocket"? Like, yes, of COURSE you need to be able to win from the pocket to be a successful QB in the NFL, but that should not come at the expense of being a great runner.

It has never, ever, ever been the case that Josh Allen should run the ball less. That is an absolutely asinine thing to want. It's taking away one of the most potent weapons the Bills offense has. The problem is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN that he simply needs to slide or run out of bounds instead of plowing recklessly into three defenders or leaping through the sky like Superman when he's 5 yards short of a first down.

Not less running, SMARTER running. Anyone who actually wants Josh to run less -- and this includes his coaches -- is a damned fool. And clearly his coaches HAVE been in his ear about running less, what with Josh's own talk about "you can't major in running the football as a quarterback". The hell you can't!

P.S. Where has every major Josh Allen injury so far in his career happened? In the pocket. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Logic

[EasternOHBillsFan]

22 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

or, Frazier does not want to burn any bridges.  Why was Frazier burnt-out, yeah, read between the lines.  Working for McD, etc.  Coordinators don't last long with Captain Clappy.  

 

Some people here are incapable of doing that!!! They need the person to tell them directly or else "it's speculation!" or "it's a conspiracy theory!" 

 

Notice that the same people who are saying he wasn't pushed out will tell you that Daboll and McDermott don't like each other yet NEITHER ONE have said that to be the case!!!!

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

The thing that drives me crazy with the "reigning Josh in from running the ball" thing is this: 

Why is Josh Allen the only dangerous running QB that everyone always says "he needs to run less" about? How come you NEVER hear anyone say "Lamar Jackson needs to run the ball less and just win from the pocket"? Like, yes, of COURSE you need to be able to win from the pocket to be a successful QB in the NFL, but that should not come at the expense of being a great runner.

It has never, ever, ever been the case that Josh Allen should run the ball less. That is an absolutely asinine thing to want. It's taking away one of the most potent weapons the Bills offense has. The problem is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN that he simply needs to slide or run out of bounds instead of plowing recklessly into three defenders or leaping through the sky like Superman when he's 5 yards short of a first down.

Not less running, SMARTER running. Anyone who actually wants Josh to run less -- and this includes his coaches -- is a damned fool. And clearly his coaches HAVE been in his ear about running less, what with Josh's own talk about "you can't major in running the football as a quarterback". The hell you can't!

P.S. Where has every major Josh Allen injury so far in his career happened? In the pocket. 

You should watch a television.  Or consume other NFL media.

 

Folks have been saying Lamar needs to improve as a passer and not just run since his MVP year lol. They also say that he won't last because he runs so much.

Edited November 17, 2023 by FireChans

[FilthyBeast]

I don't care what Frazier is saying publicly, but if he really did up and decide to leave on his own 2 things:

 

1) He screwed this team on the timing because all the viable DC replacements were already off the market. McD/Beane can use this as a built in excuse for this teams failures.

 

2) It also speaks to McD not playing nice with others and coaches who aren't spineless jellyfish not wanting to work for him anymore.

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, Logic said:

The thing that drives me crazy with the "reigning Josh in from running the ball" thing is this: 

Why is Josh Allen the only dangerous running QB that everyone always says "he needs to run less" about? How come you NEVER hear anyone say "Lamar Jackson needs to run the ball less and just win from the pocket"? Like, yes, of COURSE you need to be able to win from the pocket to be a successful QB in the NFL, but that should not come at the expense of being a great runner.

It has never, ever, ever been the case that Josh Allen should run the ball less. That is an absolutely asinine thing to want. It's taking away one of the most potent weapons the Bills offense has. The problem is and ALWAYS HAS BEEN that he simply needs to slide or run out of bounds instead of plowing recklessly into three defenders or leaping through the sky like Superman when he's 5 yards short of a first down.

Not less running, SMARTER running. Anyone who actually wants Josh to run less -- and this includes his coaches -- is a damned fool. And clearly his coaches HAVE been in his ear about running less, what with Josh's own talk about "you can't major in running the football as a quarterback". The hell you can't!

P.S. Where has every major Josh Allen injury so far in his career happened? In the pocket. 

LOL people have been saying Ravens need to get Lamar more weapons to develop his game from the pocket for like 3 years running now

[fan_in_tx]

15 hours ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Great read! Frazier even recently visited with Tre'Davious White.

 

 

 

I think what he says about defending Josh here is key!.. Honestly looking at the lack of running my thought is Josh is trying to stay healthy to make a late run in the season.. He was pretty banged up last year going into the playoffs and my hope is in the second half of the season there will be more QB runs combined with RB runs to loosen up the defense and get back to big opportunities.

 

[Scott7975]

Quote

Given his background on the defensive side of the ball, Gelb inquired as to what Frazier sees in Josh Allen and how he would defend him. He noted that Allen has gone from making big plays with his legs to a pocket passer.

“If you don’t have to worry about running and making splash plays with his legs, then you’re just going to play coverage like teams have been doing,” Frazier said. “Teams have gotten some big plays, sitting back and playing zone, if he’s not going to run. It’s worked out well. They copy what they saw the Jets do in the first game in the season, what New England did, what Cincinnati did. Let’s just sit back and play zone. He’s not running. We don’t have to worry about that, and teams are having success.”

 

I've been saying it all year. Josh not running with the football is hurting this offense.  Thanks McD.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, motorj said:

I felt the whole team was burnt out after all that, the cinci playoff game and trickled its way down to this season possibly

I agree. They haven't mentally recovered from Damar's collapse. They're not having fun and obviously Dorsey and his playcalling factored in.  London and the injuries probably ended our season.

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I've been saying it all year. Josh not running with the football is hurting this offense.  Thanks McD.

They didn't need to completely turn off the running element of Josh's game. Just tone it down a little and keep stressing sliding on scrambles.  They basically just stopped it, which effected his demeanor. 

[Logic]

22 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You should watch a television.  Or consume other NFL media.

 

Folks have been saying Lamar needs to improve as a passer and not just run since his MVP year lol. They also say that he won't last because he runs so much.

 

20 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

LOL people have been saying Ravens need to get Lamar more weapons to develop his game from the pocket for like 3 years running now

Yes, they say Lamar needs to develop his passing and learn to win from the pocket...

But no, the discourse has never been "he should stop running" or "lets take the scrambling element out of his game".

With Lamar, the discourse is "let's get him to be a better passer to supplement the threat he offers as a runner".

With Josh, it seems to be "he needs to stop running because it's dangerous to his health and it's not how good QBs win games, and he needs to win as a pure pocket passer instead".

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

Yes, they say Lamar needs to develop his passing and learn to win from the pocket...

But no, the discourse has never been "he should stop running" or "lets take the scrambling element out of his game".

With Lamar, the discourse is "let's get him to be a better passer to supplement the threat he offers as a runner".

With Josh, it seems to be "he needs to stop running because it's dangerous to his health and it's not how good QBs win games, and he needs to win as a pure pocket passer instead".

Lamar has ended the season injured the last two seasons.

 

they all say he needs to protect himself better by running less or being more careful with when he runs. 
 

Here ya go.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-lamar-jackson-confirms-he-will-run-less-in-todd-monkens-offense-running-can-only-take-you-so-far/amp/

Edited November 17, 2023 by FireChans

[C.Biscuit97]

Leslie the scapegoat is a great person. And as someone said, he’s gains nothing by saying if he was mad about the situation if he wants to coach again.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

16 hours ago, DapperCam said:

He said that he chose to step away for a year (rather than being fired) so convincingly I almost believed it.

No chance a 64 year old guy who's certainly set financially didn't decide to just take a break and ramp it down a bit? Sounds feasible to me. 

[Jauronimo]

16 hours ago, jkeerie said:

Basically...he feels badly for Dorsey because he's a good friend.  He spoke with him and Dorsey is upbeat.  Says things just just didn't work out.  Optimistic for his future.  Frasier spoke about his own derparture.  He was basically burnt out after all the drama of last season (e.g. Damar).  Spoke with Tre.  He's had his surgery and is rehabbing.  They reminisced about their time together.  He thinks the team can rebound.  He picked the Bills for the Superbowl and has confidence McD can right the ship.

 

So basically none of the scapegoat crap being posted on this Board by people who choose to read between the lines without actually reading the lines as well.

 

Altogether a good positive interview.  

Frazier is a class act.  He was never going to trash McD or the team.

[brianthomas]

16 hours ago, Rat-boy said:

Article is behind a paywall - can someone please post a synopsis? Many thanks.

there are a few websites out there one can use to get around them. I'll dm you 2 of the ones i use most often to great success.

[jkeerie]

6 hours ago, Beast said:

So, to you think Leslie will be back as our DC next season?

I don't.  Even though he enjoyed reminiscing with Tre and misses being around the guys, I don't think he would come back to the Bills.  He's actually quite good as a studio analyst on the NFL Network.  

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Pocket passers are slowly going extinct…defensive lines are getting a little better and offensive lines getting a little worse each season 

 

qbs are gonna have to be willing to make plays with their legs 

 

I agree. I think part of it is that the position is just getting an overall better athlete too.  Those guys bring an additional value add. When their passing can be "good enough" they also bring an extra variable. 

I still think the QB position is pass first in this league. Maybe the NFL goes the way of the NCAA, where eventually you can just have a RB back there. But until then, if a QB wants to have longevity in this league they need to become proficient passers first and foremost. For long term success mobility is in "addition to", running cannot be in "replacement of" if QB's want to stick around for a while. 

To Fraziers point, Allen is a great athlete, rocket arm, and a good but not great passer.

I think Josh getting a better feel for when to run, when to risk it, and when to take what's there will go a long way. 

[BuffaloMatt]

Whaaaa. I feel bad for Dorsey . . . . . Don't worry about coaches. Rob Ryan is still coaching in the NFL. 

[Heels20X6]

2 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

No chance a 64 year old guy who's certainly set financially didn't decide to just take a break and ramp it down a bit? Sounds feasible to me. 

 

I think people are forgetting that Frazier was about to call it quits after his stint in Baltimore but McD talked him into coming here.  It's very feasible that last season took a mental toll on him and, at his age, he thought "man, I cannot do this again".

 

Being a Coordinator is a LOT of work.  It's not a 40 hour, 9-5 gig.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

right, everything is fine.  5-5 is a total mirage.  We looked great in our last playoff appearances also.  The team is trending upwards, not downwards. 

 

What does your comments above have to do with what you responded to?  Answer...nothing.  And I didn't say a single word of what you just wrote either.  So this reply makes absolutely zero sense to the post you are replying to.

[jkeerie]

4 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Some people here are incapable of doing that!!! They need the person to tell them directly or else "it's speculation!" or "it's a conspiracy theory!" 

 

Notice that the same people who are saying he wasn't pushed out will tell you that Daboll and McDermott don't like each other yet NEITHER ONE have said that to be the case!!!!

A.  Some people prefer to take people at their word and not "read between the lines" or read into things.  

B.  I have no idea if Daboll or McD don't  like each other and have not speculated in the least.  That is between those two men.  (The post game handshake after the Giants/Bills game points to an issue.  Whether it had to do with McD not appreciating the dirty play and fisticuffs on the part of the Giants or something more personal, I do not know and cannot say.)

 

None of us who take a stance contrary to yours are postulating that everything  is fine this season.  Clearly they have not been.  Injuries, inconsistent offense, turnovers, in-game management particularly at the end of games, have all contributed to a mediocre 5-5 record.   An effort has been made to fix the offense this week.  Only time will tell if it works.  If the Bills are able to recover and finish strong, that is one thing.   If they continue with this mediocrity, that is quite another, and we'll see what happens in the off-season.  

[TheFunPolice]

Rodgers did mention Tre White being at the "Achilles factory" with him and Dobbins a week or two ago on Mcafee's show