Why does Josh hesitate now?

[JohnnyBuffalo]

Just now, Roundybout said:

Name one thing this offense does that is very good. 

Throwing it to Diggs is pretty remarkable .   I know but you can’t do that every play.   
 
But I think Josh to Diggs is typically pretty good.  

 

[BuffaloRebound]

Josh’s footwork in the pocket has regressed.  2020 and 2021 his feet, head, and shoulders were always aligned.  Now when he goes off his first read, he looks like a raw QB holding ball away from his body and his feet stuck in the mud and it leads to some really off balance throws down the field.  It doesn’t hurt him much in the check down game but it still takes yards away because he’s not getting it to the check down as quickly as he can due to poor footwork.  

[Beck Water]

41 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It's nothing new. He's always had these ups and downs. One week he slings it on his first read up and down the field, the next week he's double and triple clutching.

 

What he is missing is someone capable of helping him figure it out.

 

This may be truth.

[Ga boy]

15 minutes ago, BananaB said:

He’s had inconsistent play at WR for a year and half now. It’s obvious he doesn’t fully trust a few guys or he doesn’t trust the position Dorsey is putting them in. 

I would bet that our receivers and JA17 aren’t on same page with reading the defense pre-snap.  That’s one problem, then they must adjust when the defense changes post-snap.  It’s obvious when Cook doesn’t pick up a blitzer, but not when WR runs the wrong route based on the defensive scheme post snap.  This may explain why JA17 holds the ball and/or double clutches.  I didn’t see this with Burrow.  Also, I bet we weren’t ready for their use of their TE because we were focused on stopping the run and the WRs.  Their game plan was sneaky.

[mjt328]

People are going to hate me for saying this.  

But I don't believe Josh Allen is putting in the work needed anymore to become a great Quarterback, and has become totally reliant on his physical abilities.

 

His first couple seasons, all you ever heard was him working with Josh Palmer on correcting his mechanics and fixing his biggest weak points.  Now he spends the offseason shooting commercials and playing golf.  He's admitted to not being a film junkie.  The other day he appeared in an interview with Tom Brady, and basically rolled his eyes while getting advice from the winningest QB to ever play the game.

 

Yeah, I'm sure our offensive coordinator shares a ton of blame.  But Allen continually makes terrible decisions on the football field, and generally looks confused/perplexed by what the defense is throwing at him.  His body language is a deer in the headlights.  Not a man full of confidence.  It's not just endless turnovers.  Anybody who watches the All-22 will tell you he's constantly missing open receivers on a weekly basis.

 

I'm sure in 10 years, several NFL records are going to fall at his feet.  And someday he will be inducted into Canton because of that.  But I just can't see this guy winning us a Super Bowl.

[Sherlock Holmes]

49 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Bengals mixed Josh up really well. 

 

But the worst part was that the bengals entire D line would penetrate regardless of how many rushers it send.

 

I saw them rush 3 a handful of times and all 3 would get to the QB everytime.

 

Disgusting.

Hubbard and especially Hendrickson are great pass rushers.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

he's like a whipped dog.

 

they've been hammering on him since he was a rookie not to run, not to play loose. stay within structure, and he's JUST NOT THAT KIND OF A QB.

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

33 minutes ago, Nuncha said:

Doesn't matter who ran it there is simply no surprise element to this offense at all.

It does matter. A flea flicker they never run is the definition of a surprise.

Problem is defenses don’t play very aggressive vs the Bills offense because Josh Allen.

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[dorquemada]

 

someone else may have said this, but defending against Allen is somewhat like defending against Tua.  Take away the first read and make them think through the progression.  Neither of them are particularly capable of that, and because our playbook is about as innovative as a day old loaf of wonderbread, Allen stands back there dumbfounded until he gets sacked

[NoHuddleKelly12]

57 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

Opposing teams know the plays - some of them have said as such.

 

The offense looks like it's called by a 14 year old Madden addict that just slammed 2 red bulls and wants to hit a 75 yard TD so he can get to the bathroom asap.

@dollars 2 donuts, as our go-to in all things Madden, is this accurate?? 🧐🤓

[Dillenger4]

21 minutes ago, JohnnyBuffalo said:

You dislike the idea of an upgraded O line that can block for Josh when they rush only 3 in favor of simply replacing the offensive coordinator?  
 

That’s your solution?

Yes. The line is fine. Josh has time majority of the game. Not sure what you are watching. Sacks happen in every game dude - he has time for majority of the game.

[Airseven]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

I'd say it's part McDermott and part the receivers

And part Allen not trusting what he sees and reverting to the comfort of holding onto the ball and moving away from the pocket.

[dollars 2 donuts]

7 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

@dollars 2 donuts, as our go-to in all things Madden, is this accurate?? 🧐🤓

 

😆

 

HUDS, side note and only a little related, I haven't played in weeks, but no lie...Gabe drives me crazy in the game.  Seriously, if there is a DB near him...I mean just forget it, even if he has the position on the DB.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over?

Considering the rate he does turn it over, this cannot be it.

[nedboy7]

There is so much blame to go around it’s just depressing.  The team is rotting from the core.  Even McD looks like a shell of himself. 

[JohnnyBuffalo]

8 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

Yes. The line is fine. Josh has time majority of the game. Not sure what you are watching. Sacks happen in every game dude - he has time for majority of the game.

Sure sacks happen but when sacks or pressure happen when 4 or less rush that’s an issue.    When your line can’t run the ball while also giving up sacks that’s an issue.   Please realize I am not giving Dorsey or McD a complete pass but a line that opens up a run game gives the o coordinator a whole lot more to work with.  
 

How many times have you called for up tempo passing because the longer plays can’t develop?

if that’s what you call for it’s because the line can’t sustain blocks

[BigDingus]

I think he's just more cognizant of the turnover machine moniker he's been labeled with.

 

And though I'd love to say "he shouldn't let the outside noise get to him," I'm very sympathetic in that regard. The pressure is already insane, but to hear people hone in more on your mistakes than what you do well, coupled with suggestions that your best offensive player wants to leave because of YOUR performances... that's gotta be rough.

 

So I don't blame him for being hesitant, I just hope he eventually works through it & finds a way to come out better for it.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, BuffaloRebound said:

A reverse with Murray and Shakir is scaring nobody.  

What about Bills fans?

[Donuts and Doritos]

His college coach told the story that he threw a TD pass in a game & when he came off the coach said, nice pass but the play call was to the TE who was open. Josh responded no coach Brett Favre says TDs first. That is who he is a gunslinger who passes up easy plays looking for great TDs. He's a gambler backyard player NOT a systems QB like Brady, or Burrow or Mannings or sometimes even Mahomes. He's more Favre & Rodgers, who each only won 1 SB.

[BeastMaster]

Bottom line is we need an offensive minded coach with an innovative OC that will tailor an offense that best utilizes Allen's talent.

 

The other option is to trade Allen and rid this team of overpriced veterans and aim to compete again in a few years if we manage to get a franchise QB again.

 

I hate option two with a passion, but something has to give

[BuffaloRebound]

Just now, JohnBonhamRocks said:

What about Bills fans?

It was such a JV attempt at being creative.  Murray and Shakir are at most getting 5 yards on that play.  The safeties aren’t coming up because oh no Murray is running it to the outside and then wait shakir has it now.  Cincy defense probably laughing their asses off after that play.  Dorsey is in over his head. He’s the Gabe Davis of OC’s.  1 out of every 4 good games ain’t cutting it in the NFL.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It was such a JV attempt at being creative.  Murray and Shakir are at most getting 5 yards on that play.  The safeties aren’t coming up because oh no Murray is running it to the outside and then wait shakir has it now.  Cincy defense probably laughing their asses off after that play.  Dorsey is in over his head. He’s the Gabe Davis of OC’s.  1 out of every 4 good games ain’t cutting it in the NFL.  

Flip side is Bengals running the fake bubble screen to hit the TE 15 yards down the sideline. I think they scored a TD on us last matchup on the same play but just using WRs. Yet we still bite on it.

[Brand J]

40 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

People are going to hate me for saying this.  

But I don't believe Josh Allen is putting in the work needed anymore to become a great Quarterback, and has become totally reliant on his physical abilities.

 

His first couple seasons, all you ever heard was him working with Josh Palmer on correcting his mechanics and fixing his biggest weak points.  Now he spends the offseason shooting commercials and playing golf.  He's admitted to not being a film junkie.  The other day he appeared in an interview with Tom Brady, and basically rolled his eyes while getting advice from the winningest QB to ever play the game.

 

Yeah, I'm sure our offensive coordinator shares a ton of blame.  But Allen continually makes terrible decisions on the football field, and generally looks confused/perplexed by what the defense is throwing at him.  His body language is a deer in the headlights.  Not a man full of confidence.  It's not just endless turnovers.  Anybody who watches the All-22 will tell you he's constantly missing open receivers on a weekly basis.

 

I'm sure in 10 years, several NFL records are going to fall at his feet.  And someday he will be inducted into Canton because of that.  But I just can't see this guy winning us a Super Bowl.

No one is going to hate you for this take, it’s been echoed many times already. I said in another thread that in order to finally win a Super Bowl, with Allen’s playing style, I worry that we have to have an all star roster to make up for his mistakes. Or at least an all star offense: a wall of an OL, two #1 receivers, a great RB, etc. I think it’s clear watching Allen he doesn’t look like the most prepared player on the field, he’d prefer to play instinctual (his words).

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Flip side is Bengals running the fake bubble screen to hit the TE 15 yards down the sideline. I think they scored a TD on us last matchup on the same play but just using WRs. Yet we still bite on it.

It’s a lot different when Chase is the one you’re faking it to.  And Hyde has a lost a step.  He had a rough night even though the D held up for the most part.  

[cgg716]

30 minutes ago, Airseven said:

And part Allen not trusting what he sees and reverting to the comfort of holding onto the ball and moving away from the pocket.

Mcdermott created that. Compotent coaching will correct that in about 5 seconds 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s a lot different when Chase is the one you’re faking it to.  And Hyde has a lost a step.  He had a rough night even though the D held up for the most part.  

Sure but we have Diggs to fake it to. He had similar success with short passes last night that could have set up a play faking it to him.

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

The offense looks like it's called by a 14 year old Madden addict that just slammed 2 red bulls and wants to hit a 75 yard TD so he can get to the bathroom asap.

 

 

That was hysterically awesome 

[PromoTheRobot]

47 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Considering the rate he does turn it over, this cannot be it.

One per game? Really?

[Matt_In_NH]

38 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

One per game? Really?

You a turnover rate of more than 1 per game acceptable, really?   I mean there are guys with higher INT rates but if he throws an INT per game that would not be too good, considering some guys get be way down in the single digits.  Josh has the highest INT rate since his rookie year this season.

[RobbRiddick]

2 hours ago, Heavy Kevi said:

 

Opposing teams know the plays - some of them have said as such.

 

The offense looks like it's called by a 14 year old Madden addict that just slammed 2 red bulls and wants to hit a 75 yard TD so he can get to the bathroom asap.

I thought hardcore gamers just ***** where they're sitting and worry about cleanup later?

[finn]

1 hour ago, Roundybout said:

Name one thing this offense does that is very good. 

Put a conventional quarterback back there and he'll show you. Dorsey is using a Lamborghini to run errands around town, and he doesn't understand why it isn't very effective in this role. After all, it's the best car in existence! Maybe in ten or fifteen years Dorsey will get it, but if he doesn't by now, he should be replaced. And not by another "Josh-approved!" crony, unless he's creative, innovative, fearless, and willing to take full advantage of this once-in-a-lifetime QB. 

 

Dorsey: an ordinary Joe doing ordinary things. Give him a pat on the back and show him the door.  

[somnus00]

2 hours ago, Brandon said:

I wonder if some of this is that the WRs have multiple route options on each play and that they're not where Josh is expecting them to be. That may or may not be part of the problem, but if it is, it would explain his hesitation and probably also his over-reliance on Diggs.

Josh certainly has made some mistakes, but he didn't coincidently forget how to play football when Dorsey became OC. Something is going on here, and we've heard guys say that the playbook needs to be simplified.

 

This staff couldn't get Hines up to speed last year. Slow to get Kincaid involved. Isn't using Harty. Rarely gets Cook involved in the passing game even though that was his strength. All of this says something about Dorsey and the coaching.

[Big Blitz]

Why did we sign Deonte Harty?  

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I think some of it is not on the same page.. like the grounding called. It was option route , he thought Gabe would continue deep but Gabe cut it short.

 

Play design. We have seen plays in last game with receiver in the same area as eachother. This time they actually tripped over eachother. 

[Big Blitz]

21 minutes ago, finn said:

 

 

Dorsey: an ordinary Joe doing ordinary things. Give him a pat on the back and show him the door.  

 

And if new guy gets it all right he’s getting a HC job immediately.  
 

We absolutely cannot let this team get Marvin Lewis’d.   

[GoBills808]

all22 not up yet

 

but it's telling imo that after both teams' opening drives only one defense was able to adjust to what the opposing offense was doing

[finn]

25 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

all22 not up yet

 

but it's telling imo that after both teams' opening drives only one defense was able to adjust to what the opposing offense was doing

Not sure that's quite fair or accurate. The Bills D held this supposedly high-powered offense to 3 points in the second half, even with their teammates turning the ball over twice and injuries to Benford, Bernard, and Hyde. They looked like Swiss cheese early but then adjusted. The Bills offense, though, went into their familiar hibernation. You can't score 18 points over four quarters and expect to win against a talented team. 

 

Something is very wrong on that side of the ball. 

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

 

He is trying to play the entire down post snap. He needs to be better pre snap. 

 

Other factors play in of course but that is front and centre IMO.

[UKBillFan]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

He is trying to play the entire down post snap. He needs to be better pre snap. 

 

Other factors play in of course but that is front and centre IMO.

I think I’m right in saying that hasn’t always been the case. If so, what’s changed?

[JerseyBills]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

Been doing this for a month. He even hesitates to take off running now. He used to see a lane and take off. He justvlooks different,  very tight.  I pray they do something to get him back to playing free and loose