Why does Josh hesitate now?

[PromoTheRobot]

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

[cgg716]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

I'd say it's part McDermott and part the receivers

[Heavy Kevi]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

 

Opposing teams know the plays - some of them have said as such.

 

The offense looks like it's called by a 14 year old Madden addict that just slammed 2 red bulls and wants to hit a 75 yard TD so he can get to the bathroom asap.

[machine gun kelly]

PTR, we’ll know more when the All 22 comes out tomorrow.  There’s a couple of guys who do a write up so I’d say hold tight.  I was going to do the same, but I’m just too busy during the work week.

[Ramza86]

Bengals mixed Josh up really well. 

 

But the worst part was that the bengals entire D line would penetrate regardless of how many rushers it send.

 

I saw them rush 3 a handful of times and all 3 would get to the QB everytime.

 

Disgusting.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I don’t know. Josh looks the same to me. Looked like the same game I watched last year vs Cincinnati. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

After the first drive, I think that the Bengals started taking away his first read. Lou Anarumo is a really good DC who will make adjustments from drive to drive.

[BananaB]

Because he has no trust in the WRs besides Diggs and now Kincaid. Beane didn’t go out and improve the group, he brought in jags just like he does with the oline every year.  He doubled down on Davis, gave everybody his injury excuses for last year and right now nothing has changed. 

[Coach Tuesday]

He is trying to figure out how to pick the lock on the fly post-snap.  He is not doing the work leading up to the games and pre-snap so he has to find solutions during live fire.  It may be generational - perhaps after 13 Seconds he decided he wasn’t getting the immediate result so why bother.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

 

It's nothing new. He's always had these ups and downs. One week he slings it on his first read up and down the field, the next week he's double and triple clutching.

 

What he is missing is someone capable of helping him figure it out.

[Yobogoya!]

A combination of:

 

 - overcoaching his instincts out of him

 - lack of trust in what he's seeing

 - lack of ability to separate by our receivers

 

Pick your percentage combination of the three. 

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

Maybe the D is changing the look of the play at the last minute and he has not yet figured out what they are doing? 

[billsfanmiamioh]

I think he’s mentally wrecked right now. Looks like rookie Josh. Some flashes of brilliance with a bunch of panicking in the pocket, although now he’s had the running taken away which used to be the fall back.
 

Coaching? Off the field stuff?  Supporting cast? Combo of all the above? Who knows. Seems to me like he’s on full tilt and I don’t believe the current staff can pull him out of it. 

[Brandon]

I wonder if some of this is that the WRs have multiple route options on each play and that they're not where Josh is expecting them to be. That may or may not be part of the problem, but if it is, it would explain his hesitation and probably also his over-reliance on Diggs.

[Nuncha]

We ran a reverse pass for the first time in who knows how long and the Bengals knew EXACTLY what we were doing.  Even our "wrinkle" plays are horrible.  This offense doesn't fool anyone. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Nuncha

[zow2]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Are his receivers not getting open? Did he not trust what he sees? Is McDermott in his head telling him not to turn it over? Did Cincinnati know what players were were running?

 

All I saw was Allen pulling his arm down on his first read all night. Then his pocket collapses. What the hell is going on there?

 

IMO, Josh is not as good as the other Superstar QB's standing in the pocket and making good throws.  He does tend to hang on too long and the pocket caves.  He's not a great thinker, he's an instincts QB.   So he's much better than most, however,  at moving around, throwing on the run, or running decisively.  That should be his game.  And it's an admission of failure that in several games, we see the offensive plan blown up and Josh saying the hell with it I'm gonna run and play on instincts.. and then they do well.  If not for the Kincaid fumble, I think Buffalo may have tied that game up late.

 

And on another note, all this low-energy vibe stuff is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  Just play the game and be into it.  It's just weird seeing him sit on the bench stone faced.  He never used to do that.  It's probably an extension of tight ass McDermott never keeping the room loose.  

[Coach Tuesday]

Just now, zow2 said:

 

IMO, Josh is not as good as the other Superstar QB's standing in the pocket and making good throws.  He does tend to hang on too long and the pocket caves.  He's not a great thinker, he's an instincts QB.   So he's much better than most, however,  at moving around, throwing on the run, or running decisively.  That should be his game.  And it's an admission of failure that in several games, we see the offensive plan blown up and Josh saying the hell with it I'm gonna run and play on instincts.. and then they do well.  If not for the Kincaid fumble, I think Buffalo may have tied that game up late.

 

And on another note, all this low-energy vibe stuff is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.  Just play the game and be into it.  It's just weird seeing him sit on the bench stone faced.  He never used to do that.  It's probably an extension of tight ass McDermott never keeping the room loose.  

He looks like late-stage Big Ben out there trying to figure things out amid a collapsing pocket.

[Dillenger4]

12 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Because he has no trust in the WRs besides Diggs and now Kincaid. Beane didn’t go out and improve the group, he brought in jags just like he does with the oline every year.  He doubled down on Davis, gave everybody his injury excuses for last year and right now nothing has changed. 

This narrative is just plain silly. We have Diggs, Kincaid, Shakir is a weapon. Even Cook was open for short dump screens last night and Josh looks the other way. I know we don't have the "best" receivers in the AFC but c'mon - we have capable guys who have proved it already.

I watched the game too and I see a QB who doesn't understand the "full" play called as in he doesn't look at his escape options - ever.

Also, the plays being called are pop warner. Defenses can cover us now.

[BuffaloRebound]

5 minutes ago, Nuncha said:

We ran a reverse pass for the first time in who knows how long and the Bengals knew EXACTLY what we were doing.  Even our "wrinkle" plays are horrible.  This offense doesn't fool anyone. 

A reverse with Murray and Shakir is scaring nobody.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

A reverse with Murray and Shakir is scaring nobody.  

Bingo.

[Low Positive]

14 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He is trying to figure out how to pick the lock on the fly post-snap.  He is not doing the work leading up to the games and pre-snap so he has to find solutions during live fire.  It may be generational - perhaps after 13 Seconds he decided he wasn’t getting the immediate result so why bother.

He didn't have the coaching at a young age to learn this stuff. Look who Joe Burrow's dad is. You think that helps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Burrow

[Nuncha]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Bingo.

Doesn't matter who ran it there is simply no surprise element to this offense at all.

[colin]

this is all coaching.

 

if you want a player to make better pre snap reads, you coach him on that and call plays that support that.

 

for some reason, our offense thinks we should throw deep balls.  short, not fast, not strong handed guys running around with little separation is not a great recipe for low % throws.

 

what really makes me want to run the front office out of town on rails is how just stupid this is.  we spend money on harty, hines, sherf, a full back, knox, and aging vets on D, but we insist on running this o that has our qb dropping low % bombs on 3rd and long while trailing.  if we are gonna do that, why did we not put some of the harty/hines/whatever money for players we might actually use?  hopkins coulda been signed for some of these losers' salary, and him streaking outside the numbers is a scary sight for opponents.

 

instead it's pizza finger davis and harty, the fastest kid in 4th grade, streaking while covered getting the bombs.

 

there is no organization or reasoning to how this team is constructed, now how the plays are called or how the players are coached.

[BananaB]

1 minute ago, Dillenger4 said:

This narrative is just plain silly. We have Diggs, Kincaid, Shakir is a weapon. Even Cook was open for short dump screens last night and Josh looks the other way. I know we don't have the "best" receivers in the AFC but c'mon - we have capable guys who have proved it already.

I watched the game too and I see a QB who doesn't understand the "full" play called as in he doesn't look at his escape options - ever.

Also, the plays being called are pop warner. Defenses can cover us now.

He’s had inconsistent play at WR for a year and half now. It’s obvious he doesn’t fully trust a few guys or he doesn’t trust the position Dorsey is putting them in. 

[BillsVet]

6 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He looks like late-stage Big Ben out there trying to figure things out amid a collapsing pocket.

 

I think @BADOLBILZ pointed out years ago when Antonio Brown was throwing fits (before he went really cuckoo) that he had issues with Roethlisberger's prep entering the season.  Brown was working out hard to be ready and didn't see it from the QB.

 

The Diggs flare-up in June seems like that.  Josh isn't prepared like a top-end NFL QB should be with justification that he doesn't need as much prep because teams play him different than other QB's.  Not ideal.  

[Boatdrinks]

Poor scheme , poor design, poor execution. Offense is a complete mess at this point. 

[zow2]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

He didn't have the coaching at a young age to learn this stuff. Look who Joe Burrow's dad is. You think that helps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Burrow

 

A couple weeks ago there was a story mentioned on ESPN about Joe Burrow's parents being in Cincinnati between games and calling Joe for a visit.  He reportedly turned them down and said he didn't have time and needed to concentrate on the upcoming game.  So he blew his parents off.  That's a douchey move imo.  Seeing the link made me thing of that!  ESPN made it sound like Joe is so laser focused on football and wanting to be the best, that's all.

[Mrbojanglezs]

We are seeing the downside of having a defensive minded head coach. 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

 

A couple weeks ago there was a story mentioned on ESPN about Joe Burrow's parents being in Cincinnati between games and calling Joe for a visit.  He reportedly turned them down and said he didn't have time and needed to concentrate on the upcoming game.  So he blew his parents off.  That's a douchey move imo.  Seeing the link made me thing of that!  ESPN made it sound like Joe is so laser focused on football and wanting to be the best, that's all.

His dad probably could have helped him break down the film. 

[BuffaloRebound]

I’m not one to over react to a couple clips the camera catches, but the blank stares into the abyss instead of looking at the tablet and talking with your coaches and backup QB trying to figure it out on sideline is kinda concerning.  

[Lagoon Blues]

Some, some similarities to watching 90s packers...We have a more athletic Favre...if you make him scared to throw pics you lose some of that magic...which turns into a self feeding cycle(hesitates, throws them anyways).  This will never be a dynasty.  But, when the right elements come together and get on a roll they will probably win one before his career is done.  Need to accept the 10 year career and use him as such and not use him poorly and hoping for a 20 year career.  Just my 2c.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Lagoon Blues

[Brand J]

Josh needs to become a more cerebral QB. We’ve all been saying this for awhile now, but at this point I don’t know if it happens. 

[Mikie2times]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t know. Josh looks the same to me. Looked like the same game I watched last year vs Cincinnati. 

I was commenting on this stuff prior to the year starting. It's not new. Josh is a "see it" QB. He's not a timing or rhythm QB. He has appeared at times in the past to be this type of player. This is where Dorsey comes along. I feel Dabs simplified Josh's progressions.  He ran more pre snap motion to signal what a defense was doing. His whole philosophy was to build around what Josh does well. Dorsey just expects Josh to execute. Perhaps that's not an unreasonable ask for a franchise QB, but you can see the results. 

[finn]

My impression is that the offense Dorsey is running is good, even very good, but it simply does not match the quarterback he has. You see Allen doing his best Brady impression, trying to read the defense, waiting, waiting, then getting sacked, throwing an interception, or saying "Screw this stupid play, I'm making something else happen."

 

Neither Dorsey nor McDermott seem to get that Allen thrives on chaos. He's at his best outside the pocket, his receivers breaking off their routes to get open. Imagine an OC (and head coach) who worked with these traits rather than against them. There's potential for a revolutionary offense. Instead, you have Dorsey and McDermott trying to make Allen into Tom Brady. 

[JohnnyBuffalo]

28 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

Bengals mixed Josh up really well. 

 

But the worst part was that the bengals entire D line would penetrate regardless of how many rushers it send.

 

I saw them rush 3 a handful of times and all 3 would get to the QB everytime.

 

Disgusting.

The lack of an offensive line that can pass block consistently is egregious add the fact that they can’t run the ball and what you have is worse and I don’t have a word for that!

 

Forget flashy d lineman who can’t get home.  
Forget the diva WR/TE who drops the ball at the only moment that matters.  
Forget the RB who mimes feed me the ball only to fumble at the goal line.  
 

Give me an O line than lines up with 4th and 1 And everyone knows the QB sneak is coming and runs it anyway!!!
Give me an O line that doesn’t need “help” when they send 5!!!!

 

With an offensive line Josh picks teams apart with the combination of his legs and arm!   Stop with all this other stuff already.  

[Dillenger4]

10 minutes ago, BananaB said:

He’s had inconsistent play at WR for a year and half now. It’s obvious he doesn’t fully trust a few guys or he doesn’t trust the position Dorsey is putting them in. 

I agree - I think it's the position Dorsey is putting them in. We have all seen Josh play amazing. We have all seen what Kincaid can do and now Shakir too. They are both very good and catch the ball! Diggs is Diggs. We have the weapons.

That tells me it's either Dorsey orrrr Josh isn't who we think he is. I think it's the OC.

[LanderPoke]

O line is the worst in the league. Nothing more

And just for the record, Josh is fourth in the league in passing yards, 2nd in passing TDs and first in total TDs. Not sure what some of you expect from your QB

Edited November 6, 2023 by LanderPoke

[Roundybout]

Dorsey’s offense is hysterically predictable. The Pats defense came out and said it. They prepped for a certain play and Dorsey ran that exact one with no change ups at all.

[JohnnyBuffalo]

6 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

I agree - I think it's the position Dorsey is putting them in. We have all seen Josh play amazing. We have all seen what Kincaid can do and now Shakir too. They are both very good and catch the ball! Diggs is Diggs. We have the weapons.

That tells me it's either Dorsey orrrr Josh isn't who we think he is. I think it's the OC.

You dislike the idea of an upgraded O line that can block for Josh when they rush only 3 in favor of simply replacing the offensive coordinator?  
 

That’s your solution?

[Roundybout]

9 minutes ago, finn said:

My impression is that the offense Dorsey is running is good, even very good, but it simply does not match the quarterback he has. You see Allen doing his best Brady impression, trying to read the defense, waiting, waiting, then getting sacked, throwing an interception, or saying "Screw this stupid play, I'm making something else happen."

 

Neither Dorsey nor McDermott seem to get that Allen thrives on chaos. He's at his best outside the pocket, his receivers breaking off their routes to get open. Imagine an OC (and head coach) who worked with these traits rather than against them. There's potential for a revolutionary offense. Instead, you have Dorsey and McDermott trying to make Allen into Tom Brady. 

Name one thing this offense does that is very good.