The Official Fire Ken Dorsey Thread

[VaMilBill]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

I think they got caught not having a plan last drive 1 and went with the off-season installed offense to try and manhandle the Bengals. The OL has been upgraded but looks much better in 11 than 12. 

Agree. But knowing Ken he is gonna go back to 12 personnel when Knox gets back and our offense will regress even more. 
 

at this point we should be running up tempo with 11 personnel until it clearly doesn’t work

[Dr.Sack]

7 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

Agree. But knowing Ken he is gonna go back to 12 personnel when Knox gets back and our offense will regress even more. 
 

at this point we should be running up tempo with 11 personnel until it clearly doesn’t work

If the weather is crap, which it is in Buffalo come playoff time then 12 personnel makes sense. That said, being that we are likely to be the #7 at best, then we will be playing in pass friendlier climates. 

[Warcodered]

 

 

🤔......Sean YOU'RE THE ***** HEAD COACH!

 

[iccrewman112]

9 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

🤔......Sean YOU'RE THE ***** HEAD COACH!

 

Beane: “Sean fire Dorsey or I fire you.”

[Warcodered]

Is it just that he's in an awkward position on what to do about Dorsey?

 

[Comebackkid]

1 hour ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

The Bills are dead to me until this guy gets the axe. They will never go ANYWHERE with him calling the plays. KEN Dorsey should be coaching  QBs at the HS level. 

 

FIRE HIS ASS

what do you have against high schoolers?....bastard.🤨

[transplantbillsfan]

This and the thread questioning McDermott as HC should really be the only hot threads this week.

 

Look... Buffalo will still make the playoffs. Come at me with your vitriol if you want, but I will bet you on it. Cincy is just a terrible matchup for us. I actually feel pretty good about winning every other game the rest of the way, other than Philly.

 

But as @HappyDays pointed out, Dorsey just doesn't have any feel for the game. Loved his description of calling the game as though he's using AI.

 

Josh Allen is a Mustang Dorsey refuses to let out the gate until we're way behind. I really, really thought he found something against the Bucs. That was the offense I was honestly expecting to see the rest of the season.

 

I'm really pissed right now because I think the coach(es... maybe???) are the problem, not the players. Changing coaches and scheme takes way more bravado than changing players.

 

And if you want my prediction for the rest of the season since some of you are ready to throw grenades at me for saying we still make the playoffs:

 

Win vs Denver (we destroy them. It's what McDermott teams do coming off a loss like that.

Win vs Jets (we aren't losing to them a 2nd time... probably won't be pretty though)

Loss @ Philly (just not seeing it)

Win @ KC (unlike Cincy, we actually matchup well against them.. plus the bye)

Toss-up vs Dallas (could see this with so many outcomes)

Win @LAC (they just aren't good)

Win vs NE (See NYJ commentary)

Toss-up @ Miami (I honestly would call this a Win because we own them, but leaning conservative)

 

So... at worst Buffalo has 10 wins.  I think they get 11 though. Still in the playoffs. I just hope we don't face the Bengals. And please fire Dorsey, time to see what Joe Brady has.

[Comebackkid]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This and the thread questioning McDermott as HC should really be the only hot threads this week.

 

Look... Buffalo will still make the playoffs. Come at me with your vitriol if you want, but I will bet you on it. Cincy is just a terrible matchup for us. I actually feel pretty good about winning every other game the rest of the way, other than Philly.

 

But as @HappyDays pointed out, Dorsey just doesn't have any feel for the game. Loved his description of calling the game as though he's using AI.

 

Josh Allen is a Mustang Dorsey refuses to let out the gate until we're way behind. I really, really thought he found something against the Bucs. That was the offense I was honestly expecting to see the rest of the season.

 

I'm really pissed right now because I think the coach(es... maybe???) are the problem, not the players. Changing coaches and scheme takes way more bravado than changing players.

 

And if you want my prediction for the rest of the season since some of you are ready to throw grenades at me for saying we still make the playoffs:

 

Win vs Denver (we destroy them. It's what McDermott teams do coming off a loss like that.

Win vs Jets (we aren't losing to them a 2nd time... probably won't be pretty though)

Loss @ Philly (just not seeing it)

Win @ KC (unlike Cincy, we actually matchup well against them.. plus the bye)

Toss-up vs Dallas (could see this with so many outcomes)

Win @LAC (they just aren't good)

Win vs NE (See NYJ commentary)

Toss-up @ Miami (I honestly would call this a Win because we own them, but leaning conservative)

 

So... at worst Buffalo has 10 wins.  I think they get 11 though. Still in the playoffs. I just hope we don't face the Bengals. And please fire Dorsey, time to see what Joe Brady has.

Kc is a tuff one, they are well rounded this year.   Dallas, depends on prescott but im not confident ( agree could go either way)   Philly really could be our miami game clone.   miami.   we need to be healthy on D.  thats why we won the first time. 

43 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Is it just that he's in an awkward position on what to do about Dorsey?

 

take that fire poker and shove it Dorseys ask me no more questions and i'll tell you no more lies !

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Sean wants “complementary football” he doesn’t care

 

I took that to mean he wanted the offense to pull their head out of their you know what and score some freaking points.

[reddogblitz]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

We've come to eliminate some of his foibles from consideration.........like not being able to execute a simple screen pass 6 years in.   At some point in this new-CBA world the franchise QB needs to take it upon himself to see to it that basic execution is not an issue before the season even starts.

 

 

One other thing is Josh can't compete a long pass to save his neck this year.    Seems to overthrow them by 5 yards.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

3 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Ben Johnson OC in Detroit 

 

would they let him go in a lateral move ?

 

 

[Aussie Joe]

Is anyone still worried about upsetting Josh if Dorsey doesn’t get the OC gig?

[Livinginthepast]

Dorsey is like a teen driver learning stick shift on a Corvette. He rides the clutch, grinds the gears and doesnt know when to change them. He occasionally makes it to 3rd gear and builds up some speed but stalls the car just as much. He doesnt know what to do with the power and quality he has so he drives extra cautiously. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Dorsey is like a teen driver learning stick shift on a Corvette. He rides the clutch, grinds the gears and doesnt know when to change them. He occasionally makes it to 3rd gear and builds up some speed but stalls the car just as much. He doesnt know what to do with the power and quality he has so he drives extra cautiously. 

Darmok and Jilad at Tanagra! 👍🏽

[Dunkirk Donski]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

would they let him go in a lateral move ?

 

 

Who says lateral?  As much as i loathe Colin CowHerd he's correct on McDermott. 

[Coach Tuesday]

Fire him today.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I cant imagine an in season firing until we are mathmatically emliminated from the playoffs. But the writing is on the walls that unless we make it to the super bowl, he aint going to survive black monday.

 

 

[pocoboy]

5 hours ago, iccrewman112 said:

Beane: “Sean fire Dorsey or I fire you.”

 

I'm pretty sure Beane doesn't have that authority.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I think beane and sean are on the same page. And I don't think Sean is crazy loyal to his coaches as some people believe. He fired Rick Dennison after one seasn AND it was the season we broke the playoff draught. If we don't make the playoffs with josh allen, dorsey is for sure a gonner. 

I think the problem isn't whether or not they will fire dorsey. The problem is what knucklehead they get to replace him. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

When asked post game about the offensive performance Allen's comment was something to the effect "I'm just running the plays they call".  That's saying its not the players fault and quite an indictment of the OC.    

[Roundybout]

3 snaps! 3 snaps for Harty! The guy you went out and got for a swift gadget role player! 
 

Just madness.

[VaMilBill]

16 minutes ago, DanInUticaTampa said:

I think beane and sean are on the same page. And I don't think Sean is crazy loyal to his coaches as some people believe. He fired Rick Dennison after one seasn AND it was the season we broke the playoff draught. If we don't make the playoffs with josh allen, dorsey is for sure a gonner. 

I think the problem isn't whether or not they will fire dorsey. The problem is what knucklehead they get to replace him. 

At this point I’m surprised he hasn’t made the switch from Ken. It was obvious from the second half of last season and the playoffs that Ken didn’t have it. 
 

I think we need another mind calling plays at this point. I don’t think McD will make that switch because if it doesn’t work, McD will probably lose his job at the end of the season being that he will have no scapegoats left

[Buffalo03]

I got a feeling Dorsey gets fired today or tomorrow. I don't know why. But I feel like McDermott has had enough. It's clear to see something needs to change and how much worse can Joe Brady do? I mean the only thing that can happen is that it goes up from here. I just don't see it getting corrected with Dorsey. I could be wrong about him being fired this week but I just don't see how we roll into Monday night with this guy still as the OC

[saundena]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I got a feeling Dorsey gets fired today or tomorrow. I don't know why. But I feel like McDermott has had enough. 

 

I wish you were right, but I don't think so.  I think we're stuck with Dorsey until the end of the year, or at least until we're mathematically eliminated.

[waterglass]

This is post the Bengals game.

 

Take a look at what Carolina Panthers fans wrote about Dorsey back in the teens. Its plastered all over the internet. They hate him. Back then he wasnt the OC. He was quarterbacks coach and they wanted him gone before Cam Newton was ruined. 

 

Hes on schedule to destroy Josh Allen. Arrogant POS. I would get rid of him mid season as he may take down Allen forever if he stays here. At issue is we have the Carolina sycophants in Buffalo as its all CYA time. Plus Beanes are draft choices at issue or is it that our coaches cant coach them uo to NFL ready. 

 

IMO if I was Pegula my largest investment is at Quarterback and I need to salvage him. Sooner rather than later. Having Dorsey at QC for the rest of the year may destroy Allens psyche and his career forever, [SEE  Carson Wentz]

 

Our head coach is a good caoch but lets face it. Hes JV versus all the others who now have passed him by. Bengals, Jets, Dolphins, Titans, 49ers, Lions, Cowboys and several others. Same for Brandon Beane as his philosophy is outdated as our team is small along both lines. That is also Coaches philosophy as hes out of touch. 

 

Fire Dorsey NOW! 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I wonder if the sentiments on this board ever make it all the way to OBD? Anyone here have any insight on that kind of informational pipeline?

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 minute ago, waterglass said:

This is post the Bengals game.

 

Take a look at what Carolina Panthers fans wrote about Dorsey back in the teens. Its plastered all over the internet. They hate him. Back then he wasnt the OC. He was quarterbacks coach and they wanted him gone before Cam Newton was ruined. 

 

Hes on schedule to destroy Josh Allen. Arrogant POS. I would get rid of him mid season as he may take down Allen forever if he stays here. At issue is we have the Carolina sycophants in Buffalo as its all CYA time. Plus Beanes are draft choices at issue or is it that our coaches cant coach them uo to NFL ready. 

 

IMO if I was Pegula my largest investment is at Quarterback and I need to salvage him. Sooner rather than later. Having Dorsey at QC for the rest of the year may destroy Allens psyche and his career forever, [SEE  Carson Wentz]

 

Our head coach is a good caoch but lets face it. Hes JV versus all the others who now have passed him by. Bengals, Jets, Dolphins, Titans, 49ers, Lions, Cowboys and several others. Same for Brandon Beane as his philosophy is outdated as our team is small along both lines. That is also Coaches philosophy as hes out of touch. 

 

Fire Dorsey NOW! 

Its a drastic move to fire Dorsey in-season and a panic move but why wait?  Will that be seen as a panic move?  Maybe, but it is time to panic. 

[GottaRun]

1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I wonder if the sentiments on this board ever make it all the way to OBD? Anyone here have any insight on that kind of informational pipeline?

I WOULD be shocked if our sentiments aren't Diggs sentiments, and I WOULD be shocked if Diggs didn't land a well directed F You towards Dorsey at some point in time

[SWATeam]

Can't wait the see the system the next coordinator installs for Josh not to operate!

 

Might as well not have a coordinator.   Just let Josh draw them up in the dirt so he can scramble around off schedule and throw rockets, which is seemingly the only time he is truly special.

 

Unfortunately we are going nowhere with a guy who doesn't grind like the greats to be in a position to win with his mind and actually operate an offense on-schedule.  Winning with pure athleticism isn't the formula at QB.  And at this point, unfortunately, I don't see Josh turning into Mr. tape grinder.

 

But, everyone else will take the fall because there are no other options beyond trying to catch lightning in a bottle around our $250M man.  I can't believe this is where we are.

[Royale with Cheese]

We are now a year in with this offense not completely in sync.  After the GB, this offense has been clunky.

We have a Dolphins and Raiders game this year where the offense was great.  Mostly meh and multiple really bad performances.

 

This isn't a phase or a slump, this is it.  I know Allen and others deserves blame as well but the issue seems to be they don't fit.    

I am now 100% in the fire Dorsey train. 

 

We need a Coordinator that understands the rhythm of a game and that's where Dorsey struggles.  He's like Ricky Vaughn in Major League II.  The fastball was working but decided to go off speed heavy....then sucked.  

[Livinginthepast]

My favorite play of the game on offense? Dorsey bizarrely calling a reverse flea flicker where Josh threw it to noone.  I've been screaming for these types of gadget plays all season because I think this offensive team has the skills to execute them. But last night's play was an embarrassment. It almost looked like the Bills blew it on purpose. Maybe this is a stretch but I'm seriously wondering if the Bills offensive players are now rebelling against Dorsey to get him fired. Josh kind of threw some shade on him at the post game press conference.

[Prospector]

with our players, we should definitely be scoring more points. I think I am starting to climb up onto this can-dorsey-bandwagon

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I have now moved past the point where I don’t care if he gets fired to I hope he gets fired today. I’m good. Try something else. At least let someone else call the plays. ***** it. This didn’t work 

[TampaBillsJunkie]

PLEASE! PLEASE! FIRE THIS GUY NOW.! PLEASE! PLEASE! SAVE THE SEASON!

[ALLinALLEN]

Give me Joe Brady today

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

What makes you think he wasn't prepared? I just think Dorsey has him in his own head with this system. Everything is too disjointed. Allen doesn't start running until it's too late. There are very few schemed up one-read throws like you see in pretty much every other offense. Our protection schemes get beaten frequently. WRs end up tripping over each other because their routes are next to each other. I described the play calling in the game thread as Dorsey reaching into a bag and randomly pulling out a play call, that's what it feels like to me.

 

That's a lot of jumbled up thoughts, that was a long game and I'm tired. But im general I'm not remotely satisfied with Dorsey's overall management of the offense. His offense feels like it's run by A.I. He understands what play calls beat what coverages and progression design, etc., but he has no innate feel for the game.

https://theathletic.com/5035485/2023/11/06/buffalo-bills-cincinnati-bengals-ken-dorsey/
 

This piece by Joe B seems to indicate that a change could actually be coming soon. He leans hard into everyone turning against Dorsey, from the players to McDermott. 
 

‘And following the end of the game, there seemed to be a rather interesting shift in how things have sounded.

 

The subtle messages are becoming less so. The frustration and exasperation is growing, and the words used have become tougher. After a great start to the game, in which the Bills averaged 12.1 yards per play on their opening drive, that dynamic offense went missing in action. They gained only 158 yards over their next eight drives, and watched as the Bengals slowly pulled away.

“That can’t happen,” coach Sean McDermott firmly said of the offensive inconsistency. “Against a good football team that’s known for scoring points, and a good quarterback. We’ve got to be able to score points, and we didn’t do it enough.”

McDermott has made some subtle comments like that since the London game. Even after their somewhat of a resurgence in Week 8 against the Buccaneers, McDermott raised some eyebrows when he said that every play “wasn’t an adventure.” But the subtleties are becoming less so.

While the Bills found success going up-tempo the week before, they inexcusably went away from it until it was effectively too late in the game. Why didn’t they use it?

“I don’t have a good answer for you right now,” McDermott said. “I’ve got to look into that.”

There appears to be a lot more looking into things than usual, and it makes you wonder what’s next for the Bills. … It all leads to one point. The Bills might have arrived at where a big change is necessary before the season gets away from them. And with the offense flailing and seemingly out of answers, the time may be now for the Bills to change directions at offensive coordinator.

[Next section is on Allen’s clear postgame exasperation and his subtle digs at the play-calling and game plan.]

 

Why are these pieces of information important? Allen has been the loudest supporter of Dorsey, even in the face of criticism. But if Allen is out of answers and possibly losing confidence in Dorsey himself, then there may be no better reason to make a change than that one. After all, Allen is the straw that stirs the drink.

Under Dorsey, the Bills have been utterly predictable and lacked the creativity that had been a staple with Brian Daboll. … The time for waiting to allow things to iron themselves out, or giving Dorsey enough time to find his footing as an offensive coordinator is quickly coming to a close. He now has 26 games under his belt calling plays, and is seemingly in the same evolutionary spot as he was to begin his career as an offensive coordinator. If there is no growth, and the offense is stagnating, a shake-up may be required.

…

With a Monday night game on the horizon, the Bills have an extra day to prepare should they make a change, and with a plum opponent in a below-average Broncos defense to get them the confidence they need heading into a brutal stretch of games. They have coaches on staff with the experience to take over if need be, but it all comes down to their choice.’

 

Lots of other comments in the piece too.

 

 

 

[SCBills]

I'm 100% ready to let go of Dorsey.. it's just not working, and we now have a year and a half of data to show that it's not working. 

 

I don't think McDermott would pull the trigger though, because Dorsey getting canned is his last card to play if this season doesn't go how we want.  If he does it now, he doesn't have that card to play in the off-season to save himself. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, SCBills said:

I'm 100% ready to let go of Dorsey.. it's just not working, and we now have a year and a half of data to show that it's not working. 

 

I don't think McDermott would pull the trigger though, because Dorsey getting canned is his last card to play if this season doesn't go how we want.  If he does it now, he doesn't have that card to play in the off-season to save himself. 

McDermott is going to be safe. If they end up 10-7 and make the playoffs, that's five straight playoff seasons and a regular season record of 72-42. Will they make the playoffs? I don't know, but I do think they should probably win the following games: Denver, Jets, NE, and Dallas (the Bills are undefeated at home and Dallas isn't that great). I am betting they win another somewhere, with the Chargers and Dolphins being the most likely candidates.

 

Is it great? No. But he'll survive.    

[LEBills]

I’m not one to normally overact or call for a shakeup, but I think it is time to move on. It should be immediate to let Joe Brady audition for the position ROS to see if he has anything there after a great season coordinating LSU and a bad season with the a panthers. But it will likey be after the season that Dorsey is gone.

Edited November 6, 2023 by LEBills

[Livinginthepast]

I've seen enough with Dorsey to know what he is. A lot of people dont think its a good idea to fire a coordinator mid season. Normally I would agree but the situation with Dorsey has become so bad that I think the time has come to do it. Dorsey has had 1 really good game this season and is now an impediment to this team. He has lost the room for the offensive team. I dont think they respect him as a strategist or an in game decision maker. Aside from the Miami game, I think the Bills victories have been down to Allen going off script and deviating from Dorsey's playbook. Dorsey has taken away the best qualities of Allen, effectively neutering him. Even a mid season replacement cannot be as bad as what Dorsey has become.