Update: All -22 stuff Joe Marino Locked on Bills, Now Cover 1 w/ play breakdowns

[Reed83HOF]

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

 

 

With the film breakdown, it wasn't Dorsey the easy plays were there. The one INT on the pass to Davis where Whitehead undercut, it was arm arrogance. He had 2 other throws for the first down. On the arm punt INT, he could have ran it (we know), but Knox had a few steps on Mosely for a huge possible gain. The basic breakdown is that, The Jets baited the hero ball out of Allen...

Edited September 14, 2023 by Reed83HOF

[KingBoots8]

It was ugly. The sooner we put week 1 behind us the sooner we focus on the task at hand. I won’t make excuses for it, but Allen knows he was trying to super hero this game way too much. A hard lesson to learn but I’d rather learn it week 1. 
 

We’re on to Vegas. Get a W and get this crap behind us. Let the jets have their week 1 Super Bowl and move forward.

[JohnNord]

8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

Yeah this doesn’t sound great

[jkeerie]

8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

A lot of what Josh said about himself in his post game presser. 

[Coach Tuesday]

9 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

This is exactly what it looked like to me.

 

Unprofessional and immature.

 

Peoples’ livelihoods are at stake.  How is Josh gonna feel when his buddy the OC is canned because of him?  
 

Dude needs to GROW THE F UP already.

[Big Blitz]

New OC doing a bang up job.   

[Royale with Cheese]

This really needs to wake him up.

[Success]

JA is going to see all of this.  He'll see everything he passed up - all of the much easier plays that would have kept the chains moving.

 

We'll just have to see how it goes.  What else can we do? This can all be forgotten pretty quickly if we can get on a roll, and Allen gets back to looking like the guy who had us thinking he might be the best out there just a year & a half ago.

 

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

New OC doing a bang up job.   

New OC?

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is exactly what it looked like to me.

 

Unprofessional and immature.

 

Peoples’ livelihoods are at stake.  How is Josh gonna feel when his buddy the OC is canned because of him?  
 

Dude needs to GROW THE F UP already.

Great post. 
 

For us, it’s a hobby.   For the team and staff, it’s their life. 
 

Josh Allen is set with generational wealth.  The lower guys on the roster aren’t.  The coordinators and staffers are trying to build careers. 
 

He gets paid a quarter billion dollars because he’s a leader of this business. 
 

Games like this, at this point in his career, should not be happening. 

It’s not just the fans he lets down. 
 

Edited September 13, 2023 by SCBills

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Why can’t we have nice things?

[Big Blitz]

Just now, JohnNord said:

New OC?

 

Dorsey is still new at this.  
 

He is in over his head - his job isn’t just calling plays.

 

We’re not working with year 1 or 2 Josh.  
 

We have a QB off 3 MVP caliber seasons.  
 

What’s the reason for 17 INTs in 17 games under Dorsey?  
 

Josh is ultimately responsible.  But McD needs to get an OC that is the right fit for Josh’s game.  
 

Daboll was a meh play caller to but he got the most out of Josh bc he understood what he does well and doesn’t more importantly what makes him tick.  

[buffblue]

Allen better get it together. I won't lie, I'm a little concerned about him bouncing back even against a mediocre Raiders defense at home. He looked like a beaten and broken man on the sidelines and during his press conference.

 

This is the first time since 2019 that I am genuinely worried about Josh's mindset. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by buffblue

[Success]

Man, this guy does some great analysis.  Clearly a fan, but not a homer.  Gonna start watching this more regularly.

 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I'm telling you, this guy was trying to play hero ball to impress Hailee in his first game since they got together.

[Scott7975]

I'm not watching all that.  Guy doesn't even show examples of what he's talking about.  I actually agree with whats said in the OP to some extent but why watch some guy tell it to me for a half hour? 

 

In any case, this is on Dorsey.  Part of Dorsey's job is to get Allen to buy into the offense and make the right plays.  If Allen doesn't believe in the offense then we have the wrong coach. (the game itself is on Allen... I am saying getting Allen right is on Dorsey."

 

I will say this though... people expecting Josh to "just take what the defense gives you brah" for an entire game every game are kidding themselves.  That stuff only works short term.  One mistake and its drive over.  Drive after drive that happens. You don't score points.  Teams like KC can get away with that because that little 2 or 3 yard dump off often goes for 8-15 yards. Our 2-3 yard dump offs go for 3-4 yards more often then not.  Yeah, it will move the chains... if you play perfect ball.  No one plays perfect ball all game every game.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

29 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

the scatterbrained, jittery stuff was the same as in the Steelers preseason game. I think we all looked past it because it was preseason. But something weird is going on. His pocket presence has just regressed tremendously. 

[PBF81]

If he's ignoring things then that's one thing.  

 

If he's struggling with it, it's altogether another, and a more serious thing.  

 

Curious what the issue is.  Reading D's has never been a strength of his.  Maybe he's simply never picked it up completely.  

 

 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

23 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I'm not watching all that.  Guy doesn't even show examples of what he's talking about.  I actually agree with whats said in the OP to some extent but why watch some guy tell it to me for a half hour? 

 

In any case, this is on Dorsey.  Part of Dorsey's job is to get Allen to buy into the offense and make the right plays.  If Allen doesn't believe in the offense then we have the wrong coach. (the game itself is on Allen... I am saying getting Allen right is on Dorsey."

 

I will say this though... people expecting Josh to "just take what the defense gives you brah" for an entire game every game are kidding themselves.  That stuff only works short term.  One mistake and its drive over.  Drive after drive that happens. You don't score points.  Teams like KC can get away with that because that little 2 or 3 yard dump off often goes for 8-15 yards. Our 2-3 yard dump offs go for 3-4 yards more often then not.  Yeah, it will move the chains... if you play perfect ball.  No one plays perfect ball all game every game.

This is [redacted]. You can't [redacted].

Edited September 13, 2023 by Giuseppe Tognarelli
I was being a jerk

[buffblue]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If he's ignoring things then that's one thing.  

 

If he's struggling with it, it's altogether another, and a more serious thing.  

 

Curious what the issue is.  Reading D's has never been a strength of his.  Maybe he's simply never picked it up completely.  

 

 

Agreed. My guess is it's a little bit of both

[Simon]

Step 1:

Have Frank Sinatra playing up in the booth at all times so that when Dorsey's calling down plays, Josh can hear Pennies from Heaven in the background.

[HappyDays]

Good to hear that Bernard looked decent and Benford looked great. Those positions were both question marks coming into the season. If we just get adequate play at those spots and the pass rush is as improved as if looks, this will still be a top 5 defense, for whatever that's worth in 2023.

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

This is hilariously pathetic. You can't handle the thought that Josh has issues.

 

Oh ok.  Thanks for telling me I am pathetic and can't handle that Josh had a bad game. I specifically blamed Josh for having a bad game.  Maybe you should check yourself and learn some manners big guy.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

4 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Oh ok.  Thanks for telling me I am pathetic and can't handle that Josh had a bad game. I specifically blamed Josh for having a bad game.  Maybe you should check yourself and learn some manners big guy.

Yeah, that was excessive language from me for sure.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Yeah, that was excessive language from me for sure.

 

Cool man.  I dont mind people disagree with me.  We all human and all have opinions.  Just be civil.  I'm happy to discuss

[All_Pro_Bills]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If he's ignoring things then that's one thing.  

 

If he's struggling with it, it's altogether another, and a more serious thing.  

 

Curious what the issue is.  Reading D's has never been a strength of his.  Maybe he's simply never picked it up completely.  

 

 

I understand the idea of reading the defense but exactly how do QB's like Brady and Manning do it vs. how Allen is processing what he sees? 

Is there something basic he was doing that got unlearned?  Other than making bad choices maybe its why is he making bad choices?  I mean by the 2nd year any QB knows throwing into double or triple coverage is reckless, and also stupid.  So why is he doing it?  And how do they get the problem fixed?

One other change I might want to see is bringing the OC down to the field to get more face-to-face time and conversation between Dorsey and Allen. 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by All_Pro_Bills

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

This was my first time listening to a Joe Marino podcast and I don't think I will again. 

 

It's almost all opinion with very little analysis. There's better all-22 analysis done on this board.

 

I don't see the value in someone telling me that Josh is immature, eyes all over the place, bad reads, etc. I want someone to get into the nitty gritty details of specific plays and SHOW me that's what happened. 

[PBF81]

5 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I understand the idea of reading the defense but exactly how do QB's like Brady and Manning do it vs. how Allen is processing what he sees? 

Is there something basic he was doing that got unlearned?  Other than making bad choices maybe its why is he making bad choices?  I mean by the 2nd year any QB knows throwing into double or triple coverage is reckless, and also stupid.  So why is he doing it?  And how do they get the problem fixed?

One other change I might want to see is bringing the OC down to the field to get more face-to-face time and conversation between Dorsey and Allen. 

 

 

Same questions I have, very rational ones.  

 

 

[Simon]

9 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I understand the idea of reading the defense but exactly how do QB's like Brady and Manning do it vs. how Allen is processing what he sees? 

Is there something basic he was doing that got unlearned?  Other than making bad choices maybe its why is he making bad choices?  I mean by the 2nd year any QB knows throwing into double or triple coverage is reckless, and also stupid.  So why is he doing it?  And how do they get the problem fixed?

One other change I might want to see is bringing the OC down to the field to get more face-to-face time and conversation between Dorsey and Allen. 

 

 

We joke about arm arrogance, but that's sort of what it comes down to.

[Reed83HOF]

8 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I understand the idea of reading the defense but exactly how do QB's like Brady and Manning do it vs. how Allen is processing what he sees? 

Is there something basic he was doing that got unlearned?  Other than making bad choices maybe its why is he making bad choices?  I mean by the 2nd year any QB knows throwing into double or triple coverage is reckless, and also stupid.  So why is he doing it?  And how do they get the problem fixed?

One other change I might want to see is bringing the OC down to the field to get more face-to-face time and conversation between Dorsey and Allen. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

I see two guys in this page flirting.  

[Franco_92]

Joe Marino does a podcast which he also happens to post to youtube for people who only listen to it that way. That's why there aren't videos/graphics. It's a daily podcast, and sits alongside about 300 other football related things he does each week for work, including scouting hundreds of college players. That's why he doesn't have time to splice videos and make it all nice for you. But no doubt about it, the guy knows ball, you only need to listen to a few episodes to pick that up. 

[VW82]

You could tell something was off right from the fitst series. Anyone have an explanation for that throw on third down that was waaaaay behind Diggs?

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Focused on themes,

 

Josh Allen was the reason you lost the game.

The easy button throws were there all game; took them some times

times he said no were inexplicable

it's even more frustrating when you study the tape; it's worse than you thought

I watched an extremely immature QB that didn't run the offense well

you become completely aware of the turn-downs, the things he said no to

eyes were all over the place, situational awareness was lacking - forcing throws, not embracing the game script

it was 17 that was the problem

 

Lots of things are good once we move past the bad....

Did anyone come away from that game thinking 17 wasnt the problem?   Its great Joe did an all 22, but my God man the guy fumbled the ball twice on one play.  If anyone needed Joe Marino to tell them After Futher Review Josh Allen Was the Problem....

[TFBillsfan]

Questions I have regarding Josh’s development and coaching:

 

* Who is with him on the sidelines during the game? Not once did I see him reviewing the previous plays on an iPad or any coach talking to him. What was he seeing? The first two interceptions were rookie level bad  just chucking it deep into double coverage just hoping. That’s inexcusable going into his 6th year. I’ll reiterate INEXCUSABLE!

* Were was the in game coaching during the game? Basically Josh we need you to play conservative with a 16-3 lead and their backup QB is in the game.  Don’t go looking to force anything and protect the ball at all costs. It’s okay to punt!

*The Jets have played this same defense against Buffalo for multiple games now. Is Josh, Dorsey and the QB coach not going thru film and breaking it down? It was very obvious last night they weren’t going to get beat deep.

* For all the talk about captains and more vocal leadership where was it last night? At some point someone needed to chew his ass out. #accountability
* I saw McDermott once point to his head to play smarter but that was it. After the 3rd quarter it was obvious, he wasn’t playing smart. McDermott needed to pull him aside. 
* Is McDermott’s focus on D taking away from coaching the team as a whole unit?

* Unfortunately, the entire team talks about improving but it seems we are constantly experiencing the same reoccurring trends under McDermott. Ultimately he is the coach and the buck should stop with him.

 

I’m not making excuses for Josh at all but when a player or players are struggling where is the in game coaching? 

 

[78thealltimegreat]

Josh is going to get Ken Dorsey fired if it’s true the throws were there and he just looked them off that’s on him. 
 
But what I do fear most of all is a team like the 49ers trading for him in a year or two if the Bills decide to pull the plug and letting a staff with Griese and Shannahan telling him do this and the 49ers forming an 80s dynasty and the Bills rebuilding with another rookie QB and going into the wilderness for the next few years. 

[Simon]

14 minutes ago, VW82 said:

You could tell something was off right from the fitst series. Anyone have an explanation for that throw on third down that was waaaaay behind Diggs?

 

I thought it was mostly a lane issue.

[DeltaDigital]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Dorsey is still new at this.  
 

He is in over his head - his job isn’t just calling plays.

 

We’re not working with year 1 or 2 Josh.  
 

We have a QB off 3 MVP caliber seasons.  
 

What’s the reason for 17 INTs in 17 games under Dorsey?  
 

Josh is ultimately responsible.  But McD needs to get an OC that is the right fit for Josh’s game.  
 

Daboll was a meh play caller to but he got the most out of Josh bc he understood what he does well and doesn’t more importantly what makes him tick.  

Highly under rated take. This. All day, this. 

[julian]

18 minutes ago, VW82 said:

You could tell something was off right from the fitst series. Anyone have an explanation for that throw on third down that was waaaaay behind Diggs?

Allen finished at 70% his accuracy wasn’t the problem IMHO

[HardyBoy]

That throw to Davis with Diggs right there into triple coverage basically was wild, even though it ultimately worked..it was weird. Why were diggs and Davis so close together?

 

I saw an all22 snipet of I the first int...the crosser was open deep, but the safety never moved from the middle of the field...I thought maybe allen was staring down the crosser hoping the safety would bite and he would have hardy wide open deep...they showed a a second angle where you could see where Allen was looking...the reason the safety never moved from the middle of the field was because Allen was staring hardy down big time...he actually used his eyes to uncover the crossser (Kincaid?), but threw to the guy where he moved the safety...

 

It was really weird actually, like not something I remember seening allen do in a long time... concerning

Edited September 13, 2023 by HardyBoy