The 2023 - ??? Edmunds Report

[Billl]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

Watch the games. Aaron Jones took his lunch money

9 carries for 41 yards.

[BringBackFergy]

Has Edmunds injured any of his own teammates this year? He had the uncanny ability to be third man into a tackle and concuss two or three of our DB’s during his “Pro Bowl” years.

[Captain Hindsight]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

If the player isn't worth a second contract, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for.

But he did get a second contract, the largest for a defensive players ever. Just because the Bills didn’t give it to him, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a solid pick. I’d wager most GMs would take a chance on a 19 year old LB with freakish size 

[FireChans]

28 minutes ago, Billl said:

9 carries for 41 yards.

Do his receiving. Spoilers, he took a 75 yarder to the house because middle zone Tremaine picked the wrong guy. Watch the games lmao.

Just now, Captain Hindsight said:

But he did get a second contract, the largest for a defensive players ever. Just because the Bills didn’t give it to him, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a solid pick. I’d wager most GMs would take a chance on a 19 year old LB with freakish size 

Nah it does. A first round pick is an extremely valuable asset. Even more so when it’s a trade up and not in the late stages of the round. You should spend first round picks on guys/positions where if they are a pretty good player, you don’t let them leave the building. Like QB, WR, EDGE or pressure, CB, LT.

[DaggersEOD]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Streaker said:

Give the guy a break.  He's only 19.

Next year practically making him a rookie of you think about it. 

[Solomon Grundy]

I'd rather see a Motor report 😎. 

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Do his receiving. Spoilers, he took a 75 yarder to the house because middle zone Tremaine picked the wrong guy. Watch the games lmao.

I literally just watched it.  That wasn’t on Edmunds.  Not sure why it means so much to so many on here to pretend that Edmunds is some disaster of a LB.  He’s not.  

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd rather see a Motor report 😎. 

Here’s the thing. No one or very few folks were out here claiming that Motor was really this special talent that mere mortals couldn’t help to recognize. He was a solid running back and those aren’t worth paying ever. No ill will.

 

Meanwhile, the Big Scarecrow (tm) is currently manning the 31st defense in the NFL and allowing a 100% completion percentage while being targeted.

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

I literally just watched it.  That wasn’t on Edmunds.  Not sure why it means so much to so many on here to pretend that Edmunds is some disaster of a LB.  He’s not.  

How was it not on Edmunds? He has standard middle zone coverage. He picks right, ball goes left and BANG, touchdown Jordan Love. 

The Scarecrow was supposed to not let angle routes go for 75 yards.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Why?  He can't see the field either way.

He's here again!

Hello, DC Tom!

[finn]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Do his receiving. Spoilers, he took a 75 yarder to the house because middle zone Tremaine picked the wrong guy. Watch the games lmao.

Nah it does. A first round pick is an extremely valuable asset. Even more so when it’s a trade up and not in the late stages of the round. You should spend first round picks on guys/positions where if they are a pretty good player, you don’t let them leave the building. Like QB, WR, EDGE or pressure, CB, LT.

Maybe like pro bowler Jaire Alexander, taken two slots later. 

[BullBuchanan]

53 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

But he did get a second contract, the largest for a defensive players ever. Just because the Bills didn’t give it to him, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a solid pick. I’d wager most GMs would take a chance on a 19 year old LB with freakish size 

No. That's not even close to true.

He's 31 in total and AAV. What you're probably thinking of is that he signed the largest 4 year contract for an inside linebacker, which is the most baseball stat I've ever heard in reference to a contract.

[Captain Hindsight]

37 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

No. That's not even close to true.

He's 31 in total and AAV. What you're probably thinking of is that he signed the largest 4 year contract for an inside linebacker, which is the most baseball stat I've ever heard in reference to a contract.

Ah ok. I should work on my reading comprehension 😂 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Here’s the thing. No one or very few folks were out here claiming that Motor was really this special talent that mere mortals couldn’t help to recognize. He was a solid running back and those aren’t worth paying ever. No ill will.

 

Meanwhile, the Big Scarecrow (tm) is currently manning the 31st defense in the NFL and allowing a 100% completion percentage while being targeted.

How was it not on Edmunds? He has standard middle zone coverage. He picks right, ball goes left and BANG, touchdown Jordan Love. 

The Scarecrow was supposed to not let angle routes go for 75 yards.

Dude. My god. A) it was 35 yards and b) #53 was covering him, not Edmunds. Hate Edmunds all you want, but please, please don’t make stuff up out of whole cloth to advance a pretty friggin’ dumb crusade built out of misguided spite. It’s unbecoming, as all crusades are. Material evidence: 

.

Edited September 20, 2023 by dave mcbride

[Bills!Win!]

2 hours ago, gobills404 said:

I’m starting to notice a trend of defenders looking noticeably worse after leaving Buffalo. I think that McD guy might be pretty good at getting the most out of them.

I haven’t heard much about Harrison Phillips, or Levi Wallace

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Bills!Win! said:

I haven’t heard much about Harrison Phillips, or Levi Wallace

Wallace played well last night. He’s not great but he’s a decent starting-caliber corner.

[Sharky7337]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Wallace played well last night. He’s not great but he’s a decent starting-caliber corner.

He almoat had a pic too but hes been very stable for pittsburg

[Thurman#1]

On 8/27/2023 at 11:15 PM, FireChans said:

There was a weekly “this guy isn’t that bad I swear” report on Edmunds for the last couple years.

 

After watching him whiff yesterday, I’m not sure if he got benched or what, but I’d love to hear some breakdown of the former “ProBowler” and his level of play in a Bears uni. 

 

 

You're a walking example of confirmation bias.

 

Those reports weren't "this guy isn't that bad I swear" reports. Those were the sensible replies to those reports, which were actually, "See, I felt he made a bad play proving he sucks" reports. You were very involved if I remember correctly.

 

Haven't a clue how he played with the Bears. Did you watch the whole game? Oh, you didn't? Yup, more of the same. You saw something that confirmed your previous bias (of course, because that's what happens, it's what confirmation bias is), and so youI'll be sure post even though not fully informed, because it makes you feel good.

 

Kinda sad to still be trying to tickle your same little spot over and over, even though he's not even on the team anymore.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Reks Ryan]

59 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Wallace played well last night. He’s not great but he’s a decent starting-caliber corner.

Did you watch the whole game? Watching the game, I must’ve said to my wife at least 3 times, Wallace is having a rough game.  He dropped an easy interception, lost contain on a 70 yard run, gave up multiple 20 yard completions, and I think had  a penalty.

 

I really liked him with the Bills, and still root for him.  But he was clearly the weak link on the Steelers D against Cleveland.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Billl said:

He's got 24 tackles and 2 TFLs in two games so far.  That's not exactly terrible.

 

His predecessor at MLB in Buffalo lead the NFL in tackles in 2017..........maybe this is the year he finally reaches that Preston Brown level as a tackle accumulator?

 

 

 

 

 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Dude. My god. A) it was 35 yards and b) #53 was covering him, not Edmunds. Hate Edmunds all you want, but please, please don’t make stuff up out of whole cloth to advance a pretty friggin’ dumb crusade built out of misguided spite. It’s unbecoming, as all crusades are. Material evidence: 

.

53 was covering Jones. Edmunds has the middle zone. He goes left instead of right, bang TD Packers.  Did you notice there was already a defender on the guy Tremaine went to go help? Lmao.
 

This is the story of Edmunds career. Large completion in his zone? Oh, well it wasn’t technically his man so it’s all good. Misses the ball in the air, resulting in a completion? Oh, it was a tough play for any ILB to make. 
 

It must be nice to be playing the middle in and no matter what happens, it wasn’t your fault. Perks of being a zone coverage scarecrow that can’t cover.

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You're a walking example of confirmation bias.

 

Those reports weren't "this guy isn't that bad I swear" reports. Those were the sensible replies to those reports, which were actually, "See, I felt he made a bad play proving he sucks" reports. You were very involved if I remember correctly.

 

Haven't a clue how he played with the Bears. Did you watch the whole game? Oh, you didn't? Yup, more of the same. You saw something that confirmed your previous bias (of course, because that's what happens, it's what confirmation bias is), and so youI'll be sure post even though not fully informed, because it makes you feel good.

 

Kinda sad to still be trying to tickle your same little spot over and over, even though he's not even on the team anymore.

 

 

 

I watched the whole game. What’s it called when you presume something then are biased in confirming that opinion. Hmm, it will come to me. Thanks for playing!

Edited September 20, 2023 by FireChans

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I wish Edmunds well.  I hope he starts making a bigger impact soon.   Need him and the Bears to beat as many AFC teams as possible starting this Sunday. 

 

Mahomes and Kelce licking their chops knowing they get to carve up their favorite play thing one last time.

 

I have no clue what the Bears thought they were paying for. MLB is a devalued position so if you're giving one $18 million AAV you better get a true difference maker. Edmunds even on his best days was just a guy that created opportunities for others to be difference makers. And on his worst days smart OCs and QBs would make a fool out of him.

 

I think it is becoming clear that he was a worse player than even some of his detractors thought, and no longer having the support of a sound defensive system and strong surrounding talent is shining a spotlight on his flaws.

 

This so-called "modern" MLB can't match up against modern offenses that thrive on misdirection. In a sport where turnover differential matters more to win percentage than pretty much any other statistic, here is a player that doesn't force or collect turnovers.

 

So again, what did the Bears think they were paying for?

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by HappyDays

[Utah John]

Edmunds and Frazier went together.  Frazier built a D that counted on tall and long and fast Edmunds eating up space in the middle, and statistically it worked.  It just didn't work in the playoffs.  

 

I've always suspected the reason Frazier left was that he knew the Bills wouldn't be able to keep Edmunds, which meant all his plans would go out the window, and he didn't want to start over.  

 

Edmunds is a rather unique player.  He's good at things other players can't do, but he's pretty bad at things a lot of other players do well.  On a strong Bills D, his strengths were more important than his weaknesses.  On a lousy Bears D, with no one to compensate for his shortcomings, the honeymoon will be over soon, and the divorce lawyers will be lining up in the hallway.

[FireChans]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Mahomes and Kelce licking their chops knowing they get to carve up their favorite play thing one last time.

 

I have no clue what the Bears thought they were paying for. MLB is a devalued position so if you're giving one $18 million AAV you better get a true difference maker. Edmunds even on his best days was just a guy that created opportunities for others to be difference makers. And on his worst days smart OCs and QBs would make a fool out of him.

 

I think it is becoming clear that he was a worse player than even some of his detractors thought, and no longer having the support of a sound defensive system and strong surrounding talent is shining a spotlight on his flaws.

 

This so-called "modern" MLB can't match up against modern offenses that thrive on misdirection. In a sport where turnover differential matters more to win percentage than pretty much any other statistic, here is a player that doesn't force or collect turnovers.

 

So again, what did the Bears think they were paying for?

 

Bears thought, like many Bills fans, he made multiple ProBowls so he must be good lol. Tyrod Taylor effect 

[Behindenemylines]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

Edmunds and Frazier went together.  Frazier built a D that counted on tall and long and fast Edmunds eating up space in the middle, and statistically it worked.  It just didn't work in the playoffs.  

 

I've always suspected the reason Frazier left was that he knew the Bills wouldn't be able to keep Edmunds, which meant all his plans would go out the window, and he didn't want to start over.  

 

Edmunds is a rather unique player.  He's good at things other players can't do, but he's pretty bad at things a lot of other players do well.  On a strong Bills D, his strengths were more important than his weaknesses.  On a lousy Bears D, with no one to compensate for his shortcomings, the honeymoon will be over soon, and the divorce lawyers will be lining up in the hallway.

Frazier didn’t leave, he was told to leave. Nicely and given a soft landing, but they took his keys to building on his way out. 
 

And I’ve heard numerous time from the talking heads about his “year off” and coming back. Heck NO!  

[Billl]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

His predecessor at MLB in Buffalo lead the NFL in tackles in 2017..........maybe this is the year he finally reaches that Preston Brown level as a tackle accumulator?

 

 

 

 

 

And he had 7 TFLs on the season.  Edmunds had 2 in week 1 alone.  Edmunds played well against GB.  Don’t know what else to tell you.  Again, sorry the fact that he doesn’t suck causes such grief around this fan base.  Not sure what he ever did to malign so many Bills fans but whatever it was, I’m sure Terrell Bernard will do better.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 hours ago, FireChans said:

53 was covering Jones. Edmunds has the middle zone. He goes left instead of right, bang TD Packers.  Did you notice there was already a defender on the guy Tremaine went to go help? Lmao.
 

This is the story of Edmunds career. Large completion in his zone? Oh, well it wasn’t technically his man so it’s all good. Misses the ball in the air, resulting in a completion? Oh, it was a tough play for any ILB to make. 
 

It must be nice to be playing the middle in and no matter what happens, it wasn’t your fault. Perks of being a zone coverage scarecrow that can’t cover.

I watched the whole game. What’s it called when you presume something then are biased in confirming that opinion. Hmm, it will come to me. Thanks for playing!

 

Completions are gonna happen... usually at pretty high frequency.  A good ILB today will tackle and limit the YAC, while also having the instincts and freedom to read the QB and make a play from time to time.  With his length and athleticism he could close some of those windows which some QBs definitely struggle with. 

 

I felt he lacked the playmaking component.  He hasn't forced a fumble since 2018.  He had 2 INTs and 3 sacks over the last 3 seasons.  So to me it's really hard to justify paying him a ton of money when he just isn't instinctual enough to read the QB, or physical enough to cause fumbles. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[corta765]

16 hours ago, FireChans said:

If the player isn't worth a second contract, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for.

 

Hold on he was worth a 2nd contact, the issue was his cost was so high we couldn't afford him/wouldn't pay given the rest of the roster. That is far more market driven then anything else.

[Beck Water]

15 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

I want to discuss trading LaMonica.

 

YESSSSSSSSSS!

 

 

We should never have traded Lamonica!

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Utah John said:

Edmunds and Frazier went together.  Frazier built a D that counted on tall and long and fast Edmunds eating up space in the middle, and statistically it worked.  It just didn't work in the playoffs.  

 

I've always suspected the reason Frazier left was that he knew the Bills wouldn't be able to keep Edmunds, which meant all his plans would go out the window, and he didn't want to start over.  

 

Edmunds is a rather unique player.  He's good at things other players can't do, but he's pretty bad at things a lot of other players do well.  On a strong Bills D, his strengths were more important than his weaknesses.  On a lousy Bears D, with no one to compensate for his shortcomings, the honeymoon will be over soon, and the divorce lawyers will be lining up in the hallway.

 

I have expressed the same thought.  It didn't go over well, but I think there may be truth to it.  Not only revamp the D, but possibly 2 or 3 times if the first try wasn't effective, and quite likely have the D ranked much lower than 1 or 2.

 

Cue the "Nooooo!  Frazier didn't leave!  He was kicked out the door - using Sheepskin slippers lined with fleece at the toe to do the kicking, and a patented soft-close door closer behind him, but still" responses.

 

16 hours ago, FireChans said:

If the player isn't worth a second contract, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for.

 

Dude.  Edwards was obviously worth a second contract.  He got one - just not from the team that drafted him.

 

What you're contending is "if a player isn't worth paying what he can get on the open market as a FA, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for"

 

You need to think about that logic a minute. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Beck Water

[HappyDays]

50 minutes ago, Billl said:

Edmunds played well against GB.

 

He got a 51.2 grade from PFF in that game. His coverage grade was 42.7.

[FireChans]

47 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I have expressed the same thought.  It didn't go over well, but I think there may be truth to it.  Not only revamp the D, but possibly 2 or 3 times if the first try wasn't effective, and quite likely have the D ranked much lower than 1 or 2.

 

Cue the "Nooooo!  Frazier didn't leave!  He was kicked out the door - using Sheepskin slippers lined with fleece at the toe to do the kicking, and a patented soft-close door closer behind him, but still" responses.

 

 

Dude.  Edwards was obviously worth a second contract.  He got one - just not from the team that drafted him.

 

What you're contending is "if a player isn't worth paying what he can get on the open market as a FA, they aren't worth trading up in the first round for"

 

You need to think about that logic a minute. 

Yeah that makes total sense lol. If you drafted the best QB in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you drafted the best pass rusher in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you draft a “solid” ILB, they will get overpaid by some garbage franchise and aren’t enough of a difference maker to be worth paying. Bad pick.

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

 

Hold on he was worth a 2nd contact, the issue was his cost was so high we couldn't afford him/wouldn't pay given the rest of the roster. That is far more market driven then anything else.

See above.

Edited September 20, 2023 by FireChans

[Dukestreetking]

13 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I'd rather see a Motor report 😎. 

 

...and speaking of Motor (sort of), saw that Z Moss had a nice little stat line: 18/88/4.9/1TD

 

Not to derail the thread, but can anyone advise how he looked? Didn't see the game.

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

And he had 7 TFLs on the season.  Edmunds had 2 in week 1 alone.  Edmunds played well against GB.  Don’t know what else to tell you.  Again, sorry the fact that he doesn’t suck causes such grief around this fan base.  Not sure what he ever did to malign so many Bills fans but whatever it was, I’m sure Terrell Bernard will do better.

Because nothing drives a fan base crazier than unreached potential.

[Beck Water]

16 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

...and speaking of Motor (sort of), saw that Z Moss had a nice little stat line: 18/88/4.9/1TD

 

Not to derail the thread, but can anyone advise how he looked? Didn't see the game.

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/zack-moss-goes-untouched-on-11-yard-td

At least one more in here:

https://www.nfl.com/games/colts-at-texans-2023-reg-2?active-tab=highlights

 

Moss still looks slow to me, but he made some nice cuts, made guys miss in traffic.  Looks like a man who is appreciating his chance to play and making the most of it.  He looks like he may have slimmed down and muscled up a bit, too, so maybe he is a bit faster/more nimble.

 

I think Richardson is going to be A Problem.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Beck Water

[Coach Tuesday]

Lol this is becoming the ex gf thread.

[FLFan]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Lol this is becoming the ex gf thread.

Yes, and just as childish.  I think it might be time to move on.  He does not play for us anymore.  

[DCofNC]

Why can’t we all see the truth, Edmunds is this generation’s Paul Pozluzny.  Stats are there, but impact is severely lacking.  Once Poz left, people could see it, it won’t be long when the Bears are looking to get rid of him because of the contract vs impact and people will wonder, “what happened to him?”  In reality, he’s never been an impact guy and he has absolutely ZERO instincts.  If he can see the ball and attack, awesome, he can be an athlete.  Ask for anticipation, forget it.

[Beck Water]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah that makes total sense lol. If you drafted the best QB in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you drafted the best pass rusher in the NFL, you would pay him market value no matter what. Good pick. If you draft a “solid” ILB, they will get overpaid by some garbage franchise and aren’t enough of a difference maker to be worth paying. Bad pick.

See above.

 

Again, you need to think about that logic a bit.  I'm not a member of the "MLB don't matter any more" club, butwe all know that QB is the most important player on the team, pass rusher next.  Supply and demand says there aren't enough of either, so teams reach and teams pay guys who are "OK".

 

MLB is not a position like "best QB" or "best pass rusher" where teams are going to pay "market value no matter what", but getting a 5th year option picked up and then huge $$ on the free market for a 2nd contract means a player, any player, was a successful draft pick at a position of significance.

It's not logical to suggest that getting a huge FA 2nd contract means the player wasn't worth that 1st round pick.

[Brand J]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Because nothing drives a fan base crazier than unreached potential.

It’s not the unrealized potential that pits Bills fans against Edmunds, it’s the divisive discussion about what he brings to the defense.
 

If everyone here unanimously (or even mostly) believed Edmunds was a solid yet unspectacular linebacker, there wouldn’t be threads started about him, nor would there be arguments about what a poster’s own eyes are telling them. Edmunds was described in many ways like Star Lotuleile, another divisive player, and the common thread/argument between the two was that both made plays all game long, it just didn’t register on the stat sheet. When you have some telling others what they’re seeing is wrong, then you get a divisive player. In that situation it feels like people are salty toward the player but in actuality they’re salty toward the heated arguments and want nothing more than to be proven right. 

[Captain Hindsight]

20 minutes ago, Dukestreetking said:

 

...and speaking of Motor (sort of), saw that Z Moss had a nice little stat line: 18/88/4.9/1TD

 

Not to derail the thread, but can anyone advise how he looked? Didn't see the game.

Moss looked good. I was surprised it was him, but he looks like a solid NFL back right now