Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[eball]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

It is a massive blunder and it's upsetting.

 

Sort of how most of us feel about you joining this message board and posting…

 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

it's the shape of many other stadiums.  we get you think you're clever by calling it a toilet bowl, but it looks fine.  we know there's no roof.  you repeatedly told us it would take 300-400 more only to add a roof.  the overages are already beyond that, so just move on from not having a roof.  concerning being an only football facility...that's the way most stadiums are.  it's been re-hashed multiple times on here that a dome wouldn't change that.    you seem to think the bills are just overpaying for the sake of it.  you don't think the cost of the titans new stadium won't skyrocket too?  

 

 

this isn't a massive blunder at all.  it's a new stadium keeping the team in the area for year to come.  it's just your perspective on it, and most of us know what that's worth.

 

You're forgetting his opinion is the only one that matters to him.

[teef]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You're forgetting his opinion is the only one that matters to him.

i think he needs to find a new angle.  his stadium take is a little stale.  

[eball]

5 minutes ago, teef said:

it's the shape of many other stadiums.  we get you think you're clever by calling it a toilet bowl, but it looks fine.  we know there's no roof.  you repeatedly told us it would take 300-400 more only to add a roof.  the overages are already beyond that, so just move on from not having a roof.  concerning being an only football facility...that's the way most stadiums are.  it's been re-hashed multiple times on here that a dome wouldn't change that.    you seem to think the bills are just overpaying for the sake of it.  you don't think the cost of the titans new stadium won't skyrocket too?  

 

 

this isn't a massive blunder at all.  it's a new stadium keeping the team in the area for year to come.  it's just your perspective on it, and most of us know what that's worth.

 

He probably didn’t even watch the show detailing how they made decisions regarding the stadium.  Configuring the stadium so it could host kickball games would impact the quality of seats for a significant number of fans who only come there to watch football.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

i think he needs to find a new angle.  his stadium take is a little stale.  

 

if by stadium take you mean all his takes then yes

 

[Mr Wild]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is how you stadium.😳

 

😳

 

 

I don't like the look of the Titian new stadium 

[teef]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

He probably didn’t even watch the show detailing how they made decisions regarding the stadium.  Configuring the stadium so it could host kickball games would impact the quality of seats for a significant number of fans who only come there to watch football.

 

he was part of the few posters that had absolute meltdowns when the first renderings came out.  no other info than the renderings at all, and some opinions were set in stone.  i think most have pulled back once they saw that video.  there was a lot of thought and consideration into building a billion dollar structure.  not everyone was going to get exactly what they wanted, but that's the case with most builds for public use.  to call this possibly one of the biggest blunders for nys is just too hard to take seriously.  if anyone want to see an example of a bigger blunder, just look up the fast ferry out of rochester.

 

i personally can't wait to watch football and have a beer in our new home.

[PetermansRedemption]

50 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is how you stadium.😳

 

😳

Absolutely stunning 

[MiltonWaddams]

12 minutes ago, Mr Wild said:

 

 

I don't like the look of the Titian new stadium 

Oddly enough, it looks almost like the country music museum that they already have in that city. Rather unoriginal. That being said, once you’re in the stadium, it does look like a cool place to watch a game. I’ll probably give in and go there anyways.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

 

[eball]

56 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is how you stadium.😳

 

😳

 

It’s going to be fun taking that place over when the Bills play there…like we always do.

 

[rusty shackleford]

I hope Terry secured some inflation derivatives at the start of this project. 

[BillsFan4]

20 minutes ago, Mr Wild said:

 

 

I don't like the look of the Titian new stadium 

That’s exactly what it reminded me of too. 😂

[PromoTheRobot]

45 minutes ago, eball said:

 

It’s going to be fun taking that place over when the Bills play there…like we always do.

 

 

How effing nuts will it be if that stadium costs the same as ours? That wouldn't be right.

[Blank Stare]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is how you stadium.😳

 

😳

Still don’t know why they haven’t provided us with a similar fly through video of the Bills new facility. Just about every other stadium (conceptual or not) seems to put these out like it’s nothing. I find that odd they haven’t done it. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

 Even if the Pegulas eat half of it, and put the other half on the fans, that's $150 million!  Ain't making that parking cars.   It only can come from ticket prices.  

 

 

Adding to this problem is the fact that suites typically make up 20% of ticket revenue for large market teams. And more importantly, this revenue doesn’t need to be shared with the opponent, like regular seats.

 

In Buffalo, there simply is not enough businesses willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to put their name on a suite door, which makes up the revenue in larger venues.

[nucci]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

If there was any question about ticket prices or seat licenses, these cost overruns, and however much more to come, answer the questions.    It's going to be costly, and the Pegulas will not simply swallow the whole cost.    Even if the Pegulas eat half of it, and put the other half on the fans, that's $150 million!  Ain't making that parking cars.   It only can come from ticket prices.  

 

It's the classic small market dilemma - it's expensive to play in the big leagues.    Bigger markets have more people with discretionary dollars, and more dollars. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong.   Maybe the Pegulas will take the whole cost of the overruns.   What they're trying to do owning and running these teams is give Buffalo a big league experience.   It's what they signed up for.   That's an incredible commitment of personal wealth tied up in this business risk, and they may view it as the chance they took when they got into the NFL.  

all good points but revenue last season was almost $12B,  $375M per team. While it is expensive the Pegulas will be fine

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

 

Adding to this problem is the fact that suites typically make up 20% of ticket revenue for large market teams. And more importantly, this revenue doesn’t need to be shared with the opponent, like regular seats.

 

In Buffalo, there simply is not enough businesses willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars to put their name on a suite door, which makes up the revenue in larger venues.

Wait! What? I get my name on the door of the suite? Now that might just make it worth it. (Give me a minute while I go ask the Mrs.)

[BillsfaninChicago]

3 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Golly I never saw this coming:

 

https://apnews.com/article/bills-new-stadium-cost-overruns-9846e00bd063cf2e8b12406af66c6ef9

 

 

I am sure Mike Florio has used much of his Jergans and Kleenex on this article today…

[Shaw66]

47 minutes ago, nucci said:

all good points but revenue last season was almost $12B,  $375M per team. While it is expensive the Pegulas will be fine

Uh, those aren't the important numbers.  The Bills apparently have net income about $100 million.   In other words, if the project is $300 million over budget, it wipes out three years of profit.  That's significant. 

[nucci]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Uh, those aren't the important numbers.  The Bills apparently have net income about $100 million.   In other words, if the project is $300 million over budget, it wipes out three years of profit.  That's significant. 

Uh, again. I'm sure he'll be fine. He is worth about $6.7B and those are important numbers. 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

If there was any question about ticket prices or seat licenses, these cost overruns, and however much more to come, answer the questions.    It's going to be costly, and the Pegulas will not simply swallow the whole cost.    Even if the Pegulas eat half of it, and put the other half on the fans, that's $150 million!  Ain't making that parking cars.   It only can come from ticket prices.  

 

It's the classic small market dilemma - it's expensive to play in the big leagues.    Bigger markets have more people with discretionary dollars, and more dollars. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong.   Maybe the Pegulas will take the whole cost of the overruns.   What they're trying to do owning and running these teams is give Buffalo a big league experience.   It's what they signed up for.   That's an incredible commitment of personal wealth tied up in this business risk, and they may view it as the chance they took when they got into the NFL.  

Your dreaming.

 

Pegula will pass the 300m onto PSL holders just like previous owners.

 

If psl prices quadruple, will Bills fans be able to afford ?

[RiotAct]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Could reach $1.9 billion. Without a closed roof. 

lulz

[Bob Jones]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

How effing nuts will it be if that stadium costs the same as ours? That wouldn't be right.

I'm pretty sure that there definitely would be a noticeable difference in cost....for building the same thing....in NY vs in Tennessee. Cost of doing business in NY is higher for various/obvious reasons.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is how you stadium.😳

 

😳

I can't wait till we are winning super bowls and hosting AFC championship games in our new stadium

 

And Tennessee is paying 2.1 billion dollars for six wins a year

 

Anybody trying to downplay ours and talking up other people's stadiums are disrespecting the bills

Edited August 10, 2023 by Buffalo716

[wppete]

Will be over $2 Billion when all is said and done. 

[BillsFan2313]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is how you stadium.😳

 

😳

 

Looks like a pizza box

[Royale with Cheese]

Is anyone else hearing the worlds smallest violin playing?

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Blank Stare said:

Still don’t know why they haven’t provided us with a similar fly through video of the Bills new facility. Just about every other stadium (conceptual or not) seems to put these out like it’s nothing. I find that odd they haven’t done it. 

 

Maybe I'm off, but I thought that they said something about it still being a work in progress, which is why more detail isn't available.  I thought it odd to begin construction on something that isn't even fully finalized.  Meh, maybe I misunderstood.  [shrug]  

 

 

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Your dreaming.

 

Pegula will pass the 300m onto PSL holders just like previous owners.

 

If psl prices quadruple, will Bills fans be able to afford ?

 

I suspect that so many fans are going to be pissed when the new price structure comes out.  

 

 

[Blank Stare]

17 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Maybe I'm off, but I thought that they said something about it still being a work in progress, which is why more detail isn't available.  I thought it odd to begin construction on something that isn't even fully finalized.  Meh, maybe I misunderstood.  [shrug]

Yeah, I seem to recall hearing something similar too. If there are that many decisions still in flight, then these exorbitant cost overruns come at no surprise. 
 

Unfortunately, the longer they go without releasing more details and a fly through video like some of these other proposed stadium projects around the league the more awkward it becomes. Also, like it or not, it unnecessarily sows distrust and causes unease among the community and fan base. Like they are hiding something or this “built for Buffalo” means second rate or lesser (I think the stadium design I’ve seen looks great btw). Not that the stadium isn’t happening (obviously it is), but it comes off as “don’t show them everything in case the costs get too crazy and we can’t deliver.”  They are getting a ton of public funds on this thing so the least they can do is show some more of their cards. I’m not a tinfoil hat kinda guy, but something is strange about not just releasing the video (or more stills at minimum). There’s no way they don’t have some of this stuff available.

[mrags]

1 hour ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

Your dreaming.

 

Pegula will pass the 300m onto PSL holders just like previous owners.

 

If psl prices quadruple, will Bills fans be able to afford ?

Simple answer is… NO. 
 

as it is, many STH aren’t going to be able to afford them with the prices and PSLs they expected before any overages. Imo it’s one of the reasons why they are building. Stadium that’s going to seat 10k less people. Create more demand so they can raise prices and always have a waiting list. 

6 minutes ago, Blank Stare said:

Yeah, I seem to recall hearing something similar too. If there are that many decisions still in flight, then these exorbitant cost overruns come at no surprise. 
 

Unfortunately, the longer they go without releasing more details and a fly through video like some of these other proposed stadium projects around the league the more awkward it becomes. Also, like it or not, it unnecessarily sows distrust and causes unease among the community and fan base. Like they are hiding something or this “built for Buffalo” means second rate or lesser (I think the stadium design I’ve seen looks great btw). Not that the stadium isn’t happening (obviously it is), but it comes off as “don’t show them everything in case the costs get too crazy and we can’t deliver.”  They are getting a ton of public funds on this thing so the least they can do is show some more of their cards. I’m not a tinfoil hat kinda guy, but something is strange about not just releasing the video (or more stills at minimum). There’s no way they don’t have some of this stuff available.

As @SoCal Deekhas stated multiple times. They should be able to completely provide a video and stills of what it’s expected to look like. Something isn’t right for sure. Or they want to be super secretive for a reason. 

[Billl]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Titans are getting this beatiful structure for $2.1B 

We are getting the toilet bowl for $1.9B

 

Maddening.

 

 

It’s got a retractable roof!!!

[Buffalo Super Fan]

I am all over the place my mind is open to anything except where the Buffalo Bills end up Orchard Park in a toilet bowl stadium with few bells and whistles for a lot of money to attend games with limited usage other than the Buffalo Bills games for almost $2 billion while everyone else’s new stadiums are better even some renovated college stadiums are better than the new Buffalo Bills stadium what a joke. The new Bills stadium isn’t designed well at all. We would have been better building the Washington Huskies Stadium horse shoe stadium on the Buffalo outer harbor with boat access like the Washington Huskies have in Seattle than this crap stadium in Orchard Park with no views and no great scoreboard anyone catch that the new Bills stadium scoreboard sucks.
 

Western New York would have been better building on the outer harbor with Waterfront views that both the Buffalo Bills and UB Bulls could use but we live in the land of idiots. Where you want to go for the Buffalo Waterfront Stadium view regardless of the teams records because there is a 50 percent chance that the Buffalo Bills are going to suck again once Josh Allen moves on. Go on YouTube look at Washington Huskies Stadium I would rather have that than this crappy Orchard Park Stadium with nothing really exciting why bother just stay at the old one because it’s pretty obvious PSE never wanted a new stadium. It’s being forced and PSE is putting minimum effort in this regardless of the reality television videos on YouTube of the New Bills stadium. I would fire populous there design sucks for Buffalo terrible.
 

The problem is Western New York doesn’t get it and never will so we end here with crap overpriced stadium because too many Buffalo Bills fans are terrified that the Buffalo Bills are going to move so just accept any crap that PSE wants. Then if Western New York doesn’t buy into the crappy new stadium prices it’s our fault never the cheap clueless owners fault total joke in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited August 10, 2023 by I am leaving for good

[PBF81]

32 minutes ago, Blank Stare said:

Unfortunately, the longer they go without releasing more details and a fly through video like some of these other proposed stadium projects around the league the more awkward it becomes. Also, like it or not, it unnecessarily sows distrust and causes unease among the community and fan base. Like they are hiding something or this “built for Buffalo” means second rate or lesser (I think the stadium design I’ve seen looks great btw). Not that the stadium isn’t happening (obviously it is), but it comes off as “don’t show them everything in case the costs get too crazy and we can’t deliver.”  They are getting a ton of public funds on this thing so the least they can do is show some more of their cards. I’m not a tinfoil hat kinda guy, but something is strange about not just releasing the video (or more stills at minimum). There’s no way they don’t have some of this stuff available.

 

 

It's funny you say that.  I'm one of those types that distrusts everything until it happens, or in this case there's an actual point-of-no-return.  Here's my issue, we know that Pegula was going to move if he didn't get public funds, that's been made clear.  But he's only in for what he gets from the public, namely the combined $850M.  Very little of that has been spent, negligibly.  

 

We have a new dig housing project going on near where we live, several hundred homes, and the amount of equipment they have for the excavation and earthmoving is ten times what we've seen on the videos from the team.  I questioned in that video that I linked a few pages back, on the team's youtube channel, that there's not very much equipment there.  That has me scratching my head.  I've seen more equipment in building small strip malls or townhome tracks of 20 homes.  I would think that they'd be moving on this as fast as they can, and the digging it would seem has to be the most finalized part of the entire shebang.  So why isn't it further along is the question.  If you could see how much they've done in that housing community, it doesn't even approach being a comparison.  

 

I'm skeptical as we speak.  

 

At the current rate there's no chance on earth that they finish in three years, it'll be a miracle.  Until at least half of that money is spent with Pegula on the hook, I'm not going to be at ease.  I know this post will get slammed, and call me paranoid, but something's amiss.  Maybe it is simply that they really aren't as far along in planning as they wanted to be, but again, that's odd too as you say, like they're hiding something.  I mean what, one single excavator and one big Titan truck?  Seriously?  There's a good dozen of each in the housing community being built near me, plus earthmovers, D8 dozers and a bunch of other stuff.  But think about it, right now, with the suspect cost increase so soon after inking the deal on the stadium, and what, already almost 40% of the total expense, Pegula's already on the hook for what he's getting from the state & county.  He could cut now and save himself nearly a billion dollars.  If it escalates anymore, even more.  

 

I know this is going to get red x's and thumbs down, but just sayin'.  

 

 

[Einstein]

25 minutes ago, I am leaving for good said:

so we end here with crap overpriced stadium because too many Buffalo Bills fans are terrified that the Buffalo Bills are going to move so just accept any crap that PSE wants. 

 

[wppete]

Why do fans care so much about the price of the stadium? Just build it. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

Why do fans care so much about the price of the stadium? Just build it. 

Because spending nearly $2 billion on a stadium without a closed roof is crazy. We’ve been told for decades that Buffalo can’t afford a dome.

[PetermansRedemption]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I can't wait till we are winning super bowls and hosting AFC championship games in our new stadium

 

And Tennessee is paying 2.1 billion dollars for six wins a year

 

Anybody trying to downplay ours and talking up other people's stadiums are disrespecting the bills

Just because they have a far nicer stadium doesn’t mean anyone is jumping to Titans fandom. You can be both a Bills fan and realize that another team is building a far more appealing stadium. 

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

Why do fans care so much about the price of the stadium? Just build it. 

 

No one gives a crap about the price, everyone just wants it built as you say.  

 

But a mere few months after signing the deal and already nearly 40% over budget?

 

That couldn't possibly have been all Raccuia's fault.  

 

Fewer details than with any other stadium project at this point in time.  As Blank Stare implied, it's very odd.  

 

Remember, NY State is involved.  

 

 

[buffblue]

2 hours ago, wppete said:

Why do fans care so much about the price of the stadium? Just build it. 

That's my feeling on the matter. The final cost, whatever it may be, is barely consequential enough to merit discussion. I'm just glad our team is staying put