Per Shefty - Bills “expected to lose” Poyer and Edmunds

[MasterStrategist]

32 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'm not padding the stats. I'm just looking at everything that happened.

 

It's you who's actively ignoring the stuff you don't agree with. 

 

Classic confirmation bias. Flawed thinking.

 

 

He absolutely is a game changer.

 

Again, with Edmunds in this year, we were #4 against the pass. With Edmunds out, #27.

 

Wanna see a game change? Look at our defensive performance against the Vikings. With Edmunds in in the first half, the defense was strong. With Edmunds out, the game totally turned and we were shredded.

 

That's what happens when you take a game changer out. Teh game changed. He's a terrific player.

 

Cam Lewis was actually OK in that game, with the exception of that one stupid play. And yeah, Allen had some bad turnovers in that game but that was the offense. The defense played great with Edmunds. And awful without him.

Before the season, I hoped we could find a way to extend Maine, and that he would  take another step forward....but not gonna lie to myself and say he's a "game changer".  He improved, albeit not enough to break the bank for.

 

He's a tier 2 MLB....very good/occasionally incosnsistent or limitations, but not great.  Equivalent of Daniel Jones, Geno Smith, Derek Carr etc QB2 tier contracts....do you spend that money there or focus elsewhere, like OL, WR, etc...and sacrifice to a tier 3 MLB/rookie.

 

This is Beane's true time to measure up, bc the cap isn't there and needs to make difficult decisions. 

 

 We also used a 3rd rounder on Bernard LY, perhaps they see a scheme change coming.  Example - 2 down MLB replacement, and Bernard plays on passing or situationally.  Or maybe we convert to a dime defense, on 3rd downs.  Both options have been successful for other teams, and used the LB position as a rotational piece, similar to RB.

[DCbillsfan]

17 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

He is a game changer. He changes games, like that Minny game. Just not the way that some people want to see them changed.  Beane is subject to the salary cap. He has to give up guys he'd rather keep every year, going right back to Robert Woods.

 

You could very well be right about signing Von. We can totally agree there. Beane went outside his comfort zone there, consciously, knowing something else would have to give.

 

But again, we don't know Edmunds is gone yet. Might be. But we'll have to see.

True, Edmunds isn't gone yet.  We'll see what happens.  A pivotal off-season for the Bills.  Need to get over the hump.

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, Patrick Duffy said:

We were? This wasn't something I ever expected. Edmunds yes, Milano never crossed  my mind

The year he re-signed, there were a lot of stories in the press and posts here that the Bills were expected to be out-bid in the open market.  
 

Milano himself trolled fans (and maybe the Bills FO a bit) posting pictures of his dinner with a yacht salesman etc.  Then he decided he wanted to stay, and re-signed just prior to FA- by which time I’m sure his agent had a great read on his FA value.  He probably took a bit less to stay here but not a lot.  
 

Edmunds may feel he can earn Roquan Smith $$ and maybe he can, but I don’t think the Bills can/will pay that

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

He is a game changer. He changes games, like that Minny game. Just not the way that some people want to see them changed.  Beane is subject to the salary cap. He has to give up guys he'd rather keep every year, going right back to Robert Woods.

 

You could very well be right about signing Von. We can totally agree there. Beane went outside his comfort zone there, consciously, knowing something else would have to give.

 

But again, we don't know Edmunds is gone yet. Might be. But we'll have to see.

I hope he's gone. I'd rather spend the money on the offense. Orlando Brown or Mike McGlenchy make sense. 

 

This defense with Edmunds can't stop top tier QBs in the playoffs. That's just a fact beyond dispute. Sure it's not all Edmunds but he certainly didn't change the games in the Bills advantage. Where was he vs Cinci? 

 

McD is supposed to be this defensive guru. Let him coach up the players. It's officially his D now. Beane drafted Bernard for reason. It's not inconceivable he could have a breakout year. Maybe he's the next "difference maker?" In Beane we trust! 

 

Let Allen cook is my motto this season. Load up on acquiring oline help. Draft and acquire WRs and Olinemen. It's been painfully obvious that the Bills have put way too much on Allen. Year after year the pundits have pounded this drum. Yet, the Bills organizatiob has failed to solidify a solid oline. That's really been the fatal flaw of Beane and McD. Instead, they have invested and invested and invested on a pass rush that has yet to deliver. Just the facts Thurman. 

 

No way should this team go into this season depending on the defense. The numbers and stats don't tell a complete story. The real story is how the defense blows come playoff time. 

 

With a franchise QB, I don't give two craps about this overrated Bills defense. That's why you let Edmunds walk!

 

Give Allen what he needs and he will outgun and outshine his opponents. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by newcam2012

[Dr.Sack]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't agree with that at all. Campbell doesn't have the sideline to sideline range that Edmunds does but he isn't just a downhill thumper. He is at least competent moving laterally and he can more than hold his own in zone coverage. It's just that his instincts make him special instead of his athleticism.

Campbell gets a 6.18 grade = Good backup with the potential to develop into starter.

 

Edmunds graded 7.30 = Perennial All-Pro. We can argue he fell into lower rank - Pro Bowl talent.

 

Campbell will be a huge miss draft if selected. 

[BillsFanForever19]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

But again, we don't know Edmunds is gone yet. Might be. But we'll have to see.

 

He's gone. It was obvious even before Schefter's report. The second Edmunds said he's going to test the market, he was gone.

 

He's going to command a $100 million deal - maybe a little less, maybe a little more. We were never going to pay that, even if we could. Which we can't.

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

He's gone. It was obvious even before Schefter's report. The second Edmunds said he's going to test the market, he was gone.

 

He's going to command a $100 million deal - maybe a little less, maybe a little more. We were never going to pay that, even if we could. Which we can't.

Yup…Agents have a rough idea ahead of time the amount of money that their client can get…Saying the word “test” FA is just a polite way of saying “I’m outta here”.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I hope he's gone. I'd rather spend the money on the offense. Orlando Brown or Mike McGlenchy make sense. 

 

This defense with Edmunds can't stop top tier QBs in the playoffs. That's just a fact beyond dispute. Sure it's not all Edmunds but he certainly didn't change the games in the Bills advantage. Where was he vs Cinci? 

 

McD is supposed to be this defensive guru. Let him coach up the players. It's officially his D now. Beane drafted Bernard for reason. It's not inconceivable he could have a breakout year. Maybe he's the next "difference maker?" In Beane we trust! 

 

Let Allen cook is my motto this season. Load up on acquiring oline help. Draft and acquire WRs and Olinemen. It's been painfully obvious that the Bills have put way too much on Allen. Year after year the pundits have pounded this drum. Yet, the Bills organizatiob has failed to solidify a solid oline. That's really been the fatal flaw of Beane and McD. Instead, they have invested and invested and invested on a pass rush that has yet to deliver. Just the facts Thurman. 

 

No way should this team go into this season depending on the defense. The numbers and stats don't tell a complete story. The real story is how the defense blows come playoff time. 

 

With a franchise QB, I don't give two craps about this overrated Bills defense. That's why you let Edmunds walk!

 

Give Allen what he needs and he will outgun and outshine his opponents. 

 

 

Look, you can kid yourself that the Bills defense isn't good. But that's what you're doing. Kidding yourself.

 

They held the Bengals to their season average, with Von Miller, Hyde and Da'Quan Johnson out, Poyer shuffling around like an octogenarian, White not nearly himself yet in his recover and Phillips trying to replace Da'Quan with one arm. 

 

Nobody wants to talk about this, clearly, as I've mentioned it about five times so far in this thread and got crickets. But the defense wasn't awful in that game, despite the injuries. They weren't good, but they weren't awful. The offense was absolutely awful. They bear most of the burden for that loss, and I bet if you asked Allen he'd agree 100%.

 

You folks trying to blame the Cincy loss on the defense are missing the point by an order of magnitude. They get a share of the blame, but it was mostly the offense.

 

Our defense held the Bengals to their season's average, with horrendous injuries. Our (healthy) offense scored more than ten points less than the Bengals defense allowed on average.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

24 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup…Agents have a rough idea ahead of time the amount of money that their client can get…Saying the word “test” FA is just a polite way of saying “I’m outta here”.

 

 

Yeah.

 

Except for the many times it isn't.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Before the season, I hoped we could find a way to extend Maine, and that he would  take another step forward....but not gonna lie to myself and say he's a "game changer".  He improved, albeit not enough to break the bank for.

 

He's a tier 2 MLB....very good/occasionally incosnsistent or limitations, but not great.  Equivalent of Daniel Jones, Geno Smith, Derek Carr etc QB2 tier contracts....do you spend that money there or focus elsewhere, like OL, WR, etc...and sacrifice to a tier 3 MLB/rookie.

 

This is Beane's true time to measure up, bc the cap isn't there and needs to make difficult decisions. 

 

 We also used a 3rd rounder on Bernard LY, perhaps they see a scheme change coming.  Example - 2 down MLB replacement, and Bernard plays on passing or situationally.  Or maybe we convert to a dime defense, on 3rd downs.  Both options have been successful for other teams, and used the LB position as a rotational piece, similar to RB.

 

 

 

He is not a tier 2 guy. All you have to do is look at his market to see that. It's nonsense. He's not elite. But he's really good. Certainly no Daniel Jones or Derek Carr. Although actually, Carr is pretty damn good in the right situation.

 

If they lose Tremaine, you might be right that they have to switch up the defense a little. But they don't want to do that. It's not a mistake that they've run the same defense since Carolina, or that they paid big money to the two LBs in Carolina that played the Edmunds and Milano spots. Or that they've been consistently successful doing so.

 

And again, he is a game changer, just not in the way that many people mean it. With him this year they were the 4th best pass defense. When he was out, the 27th best. That's a game changer. You can see it in the Minny game.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I thought it was already known we were expected to lose Poyer and Edmunds?

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Once is a mistake. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is a pattern," you say? Oh, my God, you absolutely cracked me up there.

 

Here's how that should look in the real world. "Once is the beginning of a pattern. Twice is the continuation of a pattern. Three times is yet more data to add to the data. Four times is more data, we're getting a bit of a picture, five times ... aaaaand 57 times is all the data. Now we have a pattern." 

 

Here's what you don't do next if you are looking for clear logical thinking, "OK, now which games can we throw out to make the data look the way it feels to me?"

 

Here's how your way of looking at the data actually is. "Once is ... oh, wait, I'm not interested in that game. Twice is ... oh, wait, they played well, I'll ignore that. Three times is ... no, this isn't supporting my prejudices, I'll ignore it. Let's see, four, no, five, no, six, no, ignore all that ... lessee, twelve, no, boy this is work, looking at all this data and realizing I have to ignore it to make my argument .... um ... OK, nope, nope, nope, nope. OK, um, game 18, nope, they were terrific, throw that out, game 19 ... AH HA!!!! At last a game that supports my view. OK, let's put that one into the set that we look at and keep moving on . [two hours later] AH HA!!!! I found another game that supports my pre-existing biases. Game 38 fits my ideas perfectly  [two more hours later] AH HA!!! I found a third game out of the 57 that I looked at. Actually, this game, game #57, isn't really at all similar to the other two, games #19 and #38. I mean, the defense held Cincy to their average score despite massive injury problems. The reason we lost that game was really the offense. But, hell, I'll call it a pattern!! Yeah!! I found a pattern!"

 

Or to greatly shorten your real argument, "Game #19 fits my ideas, Game #38 fits my ideas. And game #57 kinda sorta fits my ideas. SEE? It's no coincidence that out of 57 games I found three that fit my biases!!! It's a PATTERN!!"

 

Yeah, it's a pattern. A pattern that you are seeing only what you want to see.

 

Dude, you can pretend that "being OK" with something has some importance. But it doesn't. Means nothing. It's just an excuse to throw out the data that you're "not OK with." It's real simple. If you want to be correctly informed, look at all the data. All of it. Every single game. Then you are looking at things correctly and can make an informed decision.

 

You are a walking talking example of confirmation bias here. You are throwing out 95% of the data, cherry-picking the 5% that supports your feelings and perceptions and looking only at that 5%. Pretending that you can prove something by looking only at 5% of the data. You can't.

 

Or rather, you can, but the only thing you prove is your own passionate motivation, your desperation to make your argument even if it means making ridiculous arguments. 

 

You aren't.

 

Equally true on my side. I can't throw out any games either. But I'm not. I'm looking at every game. It's true that they're a terrific defense, but equally true that they've had some problems in three games and three key games. Would they have had those problems if they didn't have to play Jaquan Johnson, Cam Lewis and Dane Jackson so much, if Jordan Peterson, replacing Da'Quan, hadn't been playing with one arm, and if the five other injury cases hadn't been injured? Well, actually, we'll never know. Can't assume anything either way, but it's worth keeping in mind as a legitimate question. Would they have continued playing as hot as they were when Von was healthy? Could be. Equally, maybe not.

 

Worth considering, though. We clearly don't need major changes, but can we do something else to make us even better? I know Beane will continue working his ass off to find something. I hope he does.

 

 

 

 

Sorry but you are just wrong. This defense has had the luxury of playing some of the worst QBs in the league for several years and padding their stats against them. Edmunds and the entire defense has been dominated or choked in multiple games against elite QBs. The anomaly games are the KC regular season games when the D has played well. 

That said most defenses get torched by elite QBs. 

Build around Allen and give McDermott one more year to prove he can make a SuperBowl. If not he has to go and give Allen a great offensive minded HC. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Look, you can kid yourself that the Bills defense isn't good. But that's what you're doing. Kidding yourself.

 

They held the Bengals to their season average, with Von Miller, Hyde and Da'Quan Johnson out, Poyer shuffling around like an octogenarian, White not nearly himself yet in his recover and Phillips trying to replace Da'Quan with one arm. 

 

Nobody wants to talk about this, clearly, as I've mentioned it about five times so far in this thread and got crickets. But the defense wasn't awful in that game, despite the injuries. They weren't good, but they weren't awful. The offense was absolutely awful. They bear most of the burden for that loss, and I bet if you asked Allen he'd agree 100%.

 

You folks trying to blame the Cincy loss on the defense are missing the point by an order of magnitude. They get a share of the blame, but it was mostly the offense.

 

Our defense held the Bengals to their season's average, with horrendous injuries. Our (healthy) offense scored more than ten points less than the Bengals defense allowed on average.

 

 

The offense was awful. Bordering on pathetic. WR Davis sucked and couldn't catch a pass or create seperation. Inconsistent to say the least. A fairly common theme throughout the season. Refer to the 93 targets and 48 catches. A whopping 56% catch rate. That's the Bills WR2. Oh boy...Yet, Beane continues to sing his praise. Are we fans that naive? 

 

Diggs was taken out of the game again. What a surprise! A common theme that defenses double him. He's the only legit weapon teams have to worry about. Lack of weapons, creativity, talent, and play calling all contributed to the puke offensive performance. 

 

The Oline failed to protect Allen. Their defense swallowed up Allen and forced lots of poor throws. Yes, the Oline sucked. Again it's been an issue for how many years? Another failure on Beane. Yet, you continue to show "blind love" that he will get the job done. Working his butt off only goes so far. How about that Saffold pick up? Great move by Beane? Spencer Brown was one of the worst graded tackles in the NFL. Yet, Beane continues to sing his praise. 

 

Dorsey got taken to the woodshed by Lou Anarumo. It was like men playing against boys. It was embarrassing. Yet, Beane continues to give Dorsey praise. 

 

So yes we agree that the offense was terrible.

 

What do you expect when you only have one legit WR weapon, a swiss cheese oline, and an OC that's "on the job training?"

 

Allen can't always play Superman, especially in the playoffs vs excellent teams. Don't get carried away with regular offensive stats. They mean little come playoff time. The Cinci game proved that. I might add that the offense was very healthy.

 

All the above is why I'm pounding the table for offensive picks and pick ups. 

 

Defensively we disagree. The defense was equally bad if not worse. Not sure how you could think they weren't anything but that. Definetly a D to a D- grade. The Bengals came out and shredded the Bills defense. Quick TDs with ease. Like taking candy from a baby. Their offense did whatever they wanted to do. Pass, run, or run pass and then some. Burrows was dominating the Bills in their own house.  The D had no answers. They were manhandled and mauled in every category. Sure felt the the Bills D of old. 

 

To this day, I have no idea what the D game plan was? Fraizer and McD defensive game plan was horrendous. 

 

The Bills vaunted pass rush was missing in action. Couldn't even beat a depleted second string Bengal oline. So much for all those top draft picks. But wait, this year Epenesa and Boogie will step up. I just know it! A 34 year old Von Miller coming of ACL injury is going to dominate come playoff time. I just know it! It will be Tre like. 

 

Look Thurman you can lie all you want about this defense. Don't get carried away with regular season stats. You can make excuses about injuries. You can minimize how bad they played. You can neglect to see a pattern of poop defensive play in the playoffs. I guess that's called being a "loyal fan?" Carry on...

Edited March 9, 2023 by newcam2012

[BillsFan130]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

"Once is a mistake. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is a pattern," you say? Oh, my God, you absolutely cracked me up there.

 

Here's how that should look in the real world. "Once is the beginning of a pattern. Twice is the continuation of a pattern. Three times is yet more data to add to the data. Four times is more data, we're getting a bit of a picture, five times ... aaaaand 57 times is all the data. Now we have a pattern." 

 

Here's what you don't do next if you are looking for clear logical thinking, "OK, now which games can we throw out to make the data look the way it feels to me?"

 

Here's how your way of looking at the data actually is. "Once is ... oh, wait, I'm not interested in that game. Twice is ... oh, wait, they played well, I'll ignore that. Three times is ... no, this isn't supporting my prejudices, I'll ignore it. Let's see, four, no, five, no, six, no, ignore all that ... lessee, twelve, no, boy this is work, looking at all this data and realizing I have to ignore it to make my argument .... um ... OK, nope, nope, nope, nope. OK, um, game 18, nope, they were terrific, throw that out, game 19 ... AH HA!!!! At last a game that supports my view. OK, let's put that one into the set that we look at and keep moving on . [two hours later] AH HA!!!! I found another game that supports my pre-existing biases. Game 38 fits my ideas perfectly  [two more hours later] AH HA!!! I found a third game out of the 57 that I looked at. Actually, this game, game #57, isn't really at all similar to the other two, games #19 and #38. I mean, the defense held Cincy to their average score despite massive injury problems. The reason we lost that game was really the offense. But, hell, I'll call it a pattern!! Yeah!! I found a pattern!"

 

Or to greatly shorten your real argument, "Game #19 fits my ideas, Game #38 fits my ideas. And game #57 kinda sorta fits my ideas. SEE? It's no coincidence that out of 57 games I found three that fit my biases!!! It's a PATTERN!!"

 

Yeah, it's a pattern. A pattern that you are seeing only what you want to see.

 

Dude, you can pretend that "being OK" with something has some importance. But it doesn't. Means nothing. It's just an excuse to throw out the data that you're "not OK with." It's real simple. If you want to be correctly informed, look at all the data. All of it. Every single game. Then you are looking at things correctly and can make an informed decision.

 

You are a walking talking example of confirmation bias here. You are throwing out 95% of the data, cherry-picking the 5% that supports your feelings and perceptions and looking only at that 5%. Pretending that you can prove something by looking only at 5% of the data. You can't.

 

Or rather, you can, but the only thing you prove is your own passionate motivation, your desperation to make your argument even if it means making ridiculous arguments. 

 

You aren't.

 

Equally true on my side. I can't throw out any games either. But I'm not. I'm looking at every game. It's true that they're a terrific defense, but equally true that they've had some problems in three games and three key games. Would they have had those problems if they didn't have to play Jaquan Johnson, Cam Lewis and Dane Jackson so much, if Jordan Peterson, replacing Da'Quan, hadn't been playing with one arm, and if the five other injury cases hadn't been injured? Well, actually, we'll never know. Can't assume anything either way, but it's worth keeping in mind as a legitimate question. Would they have continued playing as hot as they were when Von was healthy? Could be. Equally, maybe not.

 

Worth considering, though. We clearly don't need major changes, but can we do something else to make us even better? I know Beane will continue working his ass off to find something. I hope he does.

 

 

 

 

I am not cherry picking any of the data.

 

I mentioned they have been very good in the regular season.

 

They have also had some nice games in the playoffs as well. (Against mediocre QBs mind you)

 

Where they have failed time and time again is against elite QBs, three years in a row. Those are facts. It’s not cherry picking anything .

 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said:

Where they have failed time and time again is against elite QBs, three years in a row. Those are facts. It’s not cherry picking anything .

 

 

And they were not the only top 5 defense in the NFL this year to not be able to hold up when it was time to play an elite offense in the post season - see 49ers and Philly. It's just the league. If you are expecting to win playoff games against the best offenses by holding them below 24 that is a bad strategy because more often than not it won't happen. What that means is the Bills (and others) have to lean into that, recognise where the league is going and adjust their resource allocation. 

 

That doesn't say there aren't things the defense could have done better in those 3 losses or that they don't shoulder any blame, of course there are and of course they do. But these playoffs showed us where the NFL is in 2022. The best regular season defenses couldn't stop the best regular season offenses when it mattered most. Go back 15/20 years and it was almost always the opposite - hence defense wins championships. It's just no longer true. 

[BarleyNY]

In general I’m not a fan of paying big contracts to off-the-ball LBs so I’m probably out on retaining Edmunds as a matter of principle. I expect him to get a 5 year contract at between $15M-$20M AAV and that puts him out of my range. But he did really take a step forward in 2022 and had his best season, so there’s some production we will need to replace if he walks. I can certainly see why fans would want him back. But at what price?  Say Edmunds gives the Bills a chance to match his best deal. I’m interested to hear how high people would want the Bills to go. 5/$100M? 5/$87.5M? 5/$75M?

Edited March 9, 2023 by BarleyNY

[BillsVet]

20 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Pretty big indictment on Tremaine.

 

Beane talks constantly about drafting and retaining.  But they are going to let a 24 y/o first round pick team captain walk without giving him a second contract?

 

They have extended several players drafted - Tre, Dawkins, Milano, Josh, T. Johnson, and Knox for example.  In 2023 that represents $100M in cap space. 

 

 

16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

McBeane in the minority with their value of WR as the 2nd most important position… they seemingly value RB over WR some how…. I think they value special teams over WR.

 

DL is their most valued group on the field if you base it on the number of players, cap dollars, and draft picks used.  Secondary is probably next. 

 

Someone once wrote that Buffalo has used the least number of draft picks on Day 1/2 in the entire NFL.  McBeane learning from mistakes...and the HC's philosophy that other areas are more important.    

Edited March 9, 2023 by BillsVet

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BarleyNY said:

In general I’m not a fan of paying big contracts to off-the-ball LBs so I’m probably out on retaining Edmunds as a matter of principle. I expect him to get a 5 year contract at between $15M-$20M AAV and that puts him out of my range. But he did really take a step forward in 2022 and had his best season, so there’s some production we will need to replace if he walks. I can certainly see why fans would want him back. But at what price?  Say Edmunds gives the Bills a chance to match his best deal. I’m interested to hear how high people would want the Bills to go. 5/$100M? 5/$87.5M? 5/$75M?

I haven't thought about it for several reasons. 1) I expect he will clearly get an offer above what the Bills could reasonably match without significantly impeding efforts to spend free agent money to improve the offense, Even the low end of your scale is too much for the budget, though taken in isolation he would be worth 5/75M; 2) I believe you can get a veteran replacement with a somewhat different skill set at a better price point. I think they should target an edgier, "meaner" alternative. Sacrifice some coverage skills for grit.

[BillsFan130]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And they were not the only top 5 defense in the NFL this year to not be able to hold up when it was time to play an elite offense in the post season - see 49ers and Philly. It's just the league. If you are expecting to win playoff games against the best offenses by holding them below 24 that is a bad strategy because more often than not it won't happen. What that means is the Bills (and others) have to lean into that, recognise where the league is going and adjust their resource allocation. 

 

That doesn't say there aren't things the defense could have done better in those 3 losses or that they don't shoulder any blame, of course there are and of course they do. But these playoffs showed us where the NFL is in 2022. The best regular season defenses couldn't stop the best regular season offenses when it mattered most. Go back 15/20 years and it was almost always the opposite - hence defense wins championships. It's just no longer true. 

I don’t think any of us are expecting to hold teams like the chiefs under 20 points.

 

But 3 years of horrible playoff losses isn’t good enough. Which is why Frazier is gone. (I will never buy he retired, this was a polite way of firing him IMHO)

 

Also, SF/Phly had one bad game, not 3 years in a row with ugly defensive playoff exits.

 

Go back to last years playoffs, SFs D was dominant.

No one is even expecting the Bills D to be dominant, just be competent. (Like the bengals defence the last 2 years)

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And they were not the only top 5 defense in the NFL this year to not be able to hold up when it was time to play an elite offense in the post season - see 49ers and Philly. It's just the league. If you are expecting to win playoff games against the best offenses by holding them below 24 that is a bad strategy because more often than not it won't happen. What that means is the Bills (and others) have to lean into that, recognise where the league is going and adjust their resource allocation. 

 

That doesn't say there aren't things the defense could have done better in those 3 losses or that they don't shoulder any blame, of course there are and of course they do. But these playoffs showed us where the NFL is in 2022. The best regular season defenses couldn't stop the best regular season offenses when it mattered most. Go back 15/20 years and it was almost always the opposite - hence defense wins championships. It's just no longer true. 

Probably all the more reason to give Allen every the very best opportunity to succeed by pouring resources into the Offense. 
 

I read an article just recently and it stated After Kc got manhandled in the Super Bowl to Tampa,  Veach promised Reid he would do everything he could to make sure he protects Mahomes going forward. 

 

Maybe Beane thought Saffold was that guy? but he sucked. Pretty much anyone not named Morse or Dawkins is a concern right now.  But how you do not do everything in your power to constantly surround your Franchise Qb is beyond me?! 
 

Maybe the brass really believed Gabe was the guy.. or Knox,  but in Dawson case we probably couldn’t utilize him fully as we needed him to stay back and help block. 

 

For the past few years  it seemed  the consensus was Kc had a not so great D. I’m sure they accepted the fact that they could give up 28 points and still win the game because of Mahomes. At the same time while maybe not a great D it was an aggressive D that could cause you to make mistakes. Plus you have a disrupter on the D line like Chris  Jones. that was our Von Miller..

 

Our sit back and  bend but not break D is frustrating as teams ran all over us and we still failed to rush the passer post VoN despite the resources poured into the dline over the past few years. That kind of D keeps Allen off the field. 
 

Not only that,  at the speed we actually get draft picks into the season is really conservative to say the least. I believe we were at the near bottom of rookie playing time. Yet we kept trotting out Dane Jackson time and time no matter how bad he was getting abused. 
 

I honestly don’t even get the Super Bowl or bust this year mentality. With what’s looking to be a crazy difficult schedule, a D missing two pieces and having to replace and an offense that has certain questions marks we are no longer that much better than than a handful of teams. 
 

So I think this is a critical year for the Top Brass and Mcd. Surely they know the pressure is on. But they all need to hit it big before you have a guy like Diggs check out completely. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregg]

This is/was expected. Poyer is north of 30 anyway. I would rather get rid of player even if he has a year or two left of good play rather than hold on to them too long. Edmunds is going to get a big pay day somewhere and it shouldn't be from the Bills. Build the offense around Allen and find decent replacements for Poyer/Edmunds at a cheaper price. It's a salary cap world so you can't pay everyone. Beane gets paid the big bucks to figure this stuff out so let's see if he can. Don't forget we get Hyde and Tre back. Tre should(hopefully) be back to his old self as a shutdown corner this year.

[RochesterLifer]

The Bills front office and coaching staff don't leak information or show their hands. Since the advent of McBeane, we have never known what they were going to do, until they did it. Adam Schefter and the NFL talking heads are just making up things to talk about. I do not believe we have gained any insight from their comments.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

He's gone. It was obvious even before Schefter's report. The second Edmunds said he's going to test the market, he was gone.

 

He's going to command a $100 million deal - maybe a little less, maybe a little more. We were never going to pay that, even if we could. Which we can't.

 

 

Yeah, I get it. 

 

You've got something you want and you look at all the data through that lens. It's a really good way to make your thinking inaccurate. 

 

I mean, you're simply wrong if you think that's a fact. It's not. It's an opinion. Unless you're actually Tremaine or his agent operating under cover, it's an opinion.  Certainly could happen, though. Definitely a possibility.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

23 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

Good. Spend the money on the offence.

your lips to God's ears

 

[Bruffalo]

I'd love to keep Edmunds around but not for the price he's going to command on the open market.  If you could get him on the Milano deal + inflation it's a no brainer, for 17-20 mil a year, no thanks, best of luck to him though.

 

Poyer is whatever.  He's been great, and he's excellent when healthy, but that healthy designation is getting less and less likely as his career goes on. 

 

[ngbills]

Teams starting to free up space. What is the hold up in BUF? Allen and a few others are no brainers. 

[ColoradoBills]

Edmunds is going to get paid.  I predict at least $15M per year.

 

The Bears have nobody at LB and $100M in cap space.

Other teams with money who will be interested in a MLB are ATL, LVR, NE and maybe even the Bengals.

HOU has cap and Kirksey (wrong side of 30) and is on his last year of his contract with only a $1M dead cap if cut saving $5.25M.

 

Edmunds and his agent will be having a fun time in FA.

[TheBeaneBandit]

27 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Teams starting to free up space. What is the hold up in BUF? Allen and a few others are no brainers. 

Wondering the same. Jets already made a damn trade.

[Loyal BF]

The Bills have to do all they can to retain Edmunds.

 

I don’t buy the crapping on him from too many Bills fans.  Around the NFL, with professional experts, they know that he is a vital part of the Bills defense and is one of the best MLB’s in the NFL.

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

8 minutes ago, Loyal BF said:

The Bills have to do all they can to retain Edmunds.

 

I don’t buy the crapping on him from too many Bills fans.  Around the NFL, with professional experts, they know that he is a vital part of the Bills defense and is one of the best MLB’s in the NFL.

 

 

I don’t think they have to go all out. They will be able to find capable replacements for Poyer and Edmunds for the price of Edmunds.

Edited March 9, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, Loyal BF said:

The Bills have to do all they can to retain Edmunds.

 

I don’t buy the crapping on him from too many Bills fans.  Around the NFL, with professional experts, they know that he is a vital part of the Bills defense and is one of the best MLB’s in the NFL.

 

 

 

He is and will get paid like one.  The average of the top 5 ILBs currently is $18M per year.

[DrDawkinstein]

26 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Edmunds is going to get paid.  I predict at least $15M per year.

 

The Bears have nobody at LB and $100M in cap space.

Other teams with money who will be interested in a MLB are ATL, LVR, NE and maybe even the Bengals.

HOU has cap and Kirksey (wrong side of 30) and is on his last year of his contract with only a $1M dead cap if cut saving $5.25M.

 

Edmunds and his agent will be having a fun time in FA.

 

It would be a very Bears-y thing to do to sign Edmunds for same/more money than Roquan Smith, who was already on the team and they traded away because they didnt want to pay him. Especially with Smith being the better player.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It would be a very Bears-y thing to do to sign Edmunds for same/more money than Roquan Smith, who was already on the team and they traded away because they didnt want to pay him. Especially with Smith being the better player.

 

LOL true.  It was a part of the tank IMO.  The Bears won't play without a big name LB.  They either get one in FA or the draft.

[Punching Bag]

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-free-agent-jordan-poyer-targeted-new-york-giants-weather-taxes-dolphins-dallas-cowboys

Quote

ills Free Agent Jordan Poyer 'Targeted' by New York Giants

“Add the Giants in as a team with interest in Jordan Poyer,'' an NFL team exec says of the Bills safety. "He’ll have a long list of offers to choose from, but New York is a team to watch.”

 

Buffalo Bills standout Jordan Poyer has stated, maybe playfully, that he might want to escape northern weather and New York State taxes as he makes his free agency decision.

 

Are the New York Giants aware that they are in the north? And in New York?

 

Actually they are in New Jersey.  He would be substituting NJ taxes and higher prices for NY taxes and lower WNY prices.

 

Quote

Obviously, Poyer's proclamations will not stop bidders from attempting to lure him away from Buffalo, and the Giants - projected to have plenty of cap space in the league (at least previous to what they might do with Saquon Barkley and Daniel Jones) - are being reported as being among the likely suitors once talks can begin with "legal tampering'' on March 13.

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

18 hours ago, Beast said:

Yeah, it was on Edmunds. Clearly it was his fault with the extreme pressure our defensive line was putting on the QB

I did not say it was all Edmunds fault.  Obviously not the case.  But I certainly would not pay him upwards of $15 million/year to be a decent player at best.  

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It would be a very Bears-y thing to do to sign Edmunds for same/more money than Roquan Smith, who was already on the team and they traded away because they didnt want to pay him. Especially with Smith being the better player.

It makes total sense actually.

 

They get a good player (who can fit a 2-3 year timeline) and a decent pick instead of a great player. It's not like they are up against the cap. They gotta pay someone.

Edited March 9, 2023 by FireChans

[billsfan89]

11 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

He's gone. It was obvious even before Schefter's report. The second Edmunds said he's going to test the market, he was gone.

 

He's going to command a $100 million deal - maybe a little less, maybe a little more. We were never going to pay that, even if we could. Which we can't.

 

Unless the market for Edumonds is not there for some reason and the Bills can hop in on a more reasonable deal yeah he is gone. Good for him to get his money. Hopefully the Bills realize that they should be investing more in the offense. 

[ColoradoBills]

Tom Pelissero on NFLN right now predicting Edmunds gets a Monster Contract.

FWIW.

[TheBeaneBandit]

28 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Tom Pelissero on NFLN right now predicting Edmunds gets a Monster Contract.

FWIW.

He is. The overpaying is only gonna get crazier. All these guards people on here want who say their market value is like 7M per year.....these guys are gonna get 12M or more per year. Seamalu, Powers, Risner, Davis.....watch.

[billsfan89]

15 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

He is. The overpaying is only gonna get crazier. All these guards people on here want who say their market value is like 7M per year.....these guys are gonna get 12M or more per year. Seamalu, Powers, Risner, Davis.....watch.

 

NFL free agency is hard to predict. I would have predicted a guard like Alex Cappa who was a starting guard for 3 seasons including being on a Super Bowl-winning team while grading out very highly at age 27 would have gotten a 10+ million dollar contract. He signed for 8.75 million aav. Not cheap but not some massive contract either.