Can you imagine being Allen last night?

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

That Beane drafted very well in his first 3 years and not so well in the last 3. Not sure how you could argue that overall.

 

He was a first ballot hall of famer and 3 time MVP are you saying that's not good enough and you wouldn't be happy if Josh had his career? Clearly people thought he was the best player in a season 3 times. Your argument sounds a little revisionist. 

 

A couple thoughts, Beane wasn't here for that first of the first three drafts (2017).  After that, I'd disagree with you on 2019, Day 1 was not good at all.  But I understand that there's a huge degree of subjectivity in the Drafts, I think that how people evaluate those often comes down to experience.  

 

But let's be real, at the end of the day the single draft pick that stands out among all others, entirely indisputably, is Allen.  

 

I will say this, over the "Last 20 Years" we've had a litany of coaches and GMs.  Fans argued in defense saying similar things about Whaley and Donahoe, and about Levy, Nix, and Brandon to a lesser extent.  But they didn't last long, but put Allen on their teams, and the same conversations would arise.  I even think that Gailey would have done better than McD with Allen.  Perhaps Williams too, he had Van Pelt and Bledsoe, the latter one of the worst playoff QBs in NFL history.  

 

Same for coaching.  I don't see our team having been any different during that "Last 20 Years" than it is now, other than having NE challenging for the division every season, if Williams, Gailey, possibly even Ryan or Jauron had had Allen.  None of those coaches would navigate us through the playoffs to win it all, but with Allen they'd likely have made the playoffs, thereby relegating that "Last 20 Years" to nonexistence.  I don't see much of a difference now, besides Allen.  

 

Here's the thing, some people see that McD's missing something, something critical.  It's obvious in several ways.  

 

First, on gamedays he runs up and down the sideline clapping like one of those chime monkeys, what, apparently thinking that if in good participation-ribbon style everyone's a winner and "they'll do better next time" during games when we're clearly not cutting the Webers.  This is particularly noticeable in the playoffs.  

 

He preaches character and accountability, the latter which is a trait of the first, but we can write the summaries for all of his future post-game pressers right now;  ...

 

'We need to do better.  This falls on me, I'm ultimately responsible.  We'll look at the tape and see what we can change.  [blah blah blah]" 

 

Here's the problem with that, nothing ever changes.  Nothing.  And if we're going to be honest here, his biggest failures are hardly of the "yeah, we should have gone for it on 4th ..." type things, they're incredibly egregious breakdowns in tactics and strategy that even well-seasoned fans know better than to do or not do.  

 

But again, nothing changes.  Accountability?  So we fire the Safeties Coach?  The position coach that had one of his two starters out all season, the other injured most of it, with questionable backups, and whose unit still outperformed most of the other units on the team?  THAT'S accountability?  

 

This doesn't go unnoticed, by fans, media, etc.  In fact, it goes very very noticed.  And just like Brady won Belichick 4-6 extra games every season, so too Allen clearly is the reason for most of our wins.  But let's do a simple exercise, let's suppose that Allen is only responsible for a mere 4 wins/season.  That's it, just 4, when we all know it's much higher.  Here would be McD's record without Allen, and I'll only include the last three seasons because Allen was developing in his first tow, in fairness;  

 

9-7, 7-9, 9-6  

 

Suppose he had those records.  Would the support for him be the same?  For Beane?  Obviously not.  We wouldn't have even won the division, much less done anything in the playoffs, with that.  

 

Some people see that, others do not.  That's the foibles of a fan community where anyone can opine and say their piece.  OTOH, does it really matter, ... what you and I disagree on?  Not really.  OBD isn't reading these threads figuring out what to do.  LOL  

 

So it's fun to bicker and argue about, but "let's not bicker and argue over who killed who."   (Presumably you get the reference)  LOL  

 

Stay at piece my friend!!  

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by PBF81

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

How  Does this change the fact that Josh has been a bit sloppy over his career as to ball security? Earning that rep…,

What does this have to do with Allen?  I was pointing out just how terrible a play it was and yes stating after the year Allen had if it was him, it would have been discussed ad nauseum, but the announcers didn't even make a big deal about it.  

 

Take a look at the 4th comment in this thread when I did joke about "If it had been Allen".

 

Start a new thread discussing Allen's to's, because there haven't been enough.😉

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Big Turk]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

A couple thoughts, Beane wasn't here for that first of the first three drafts (2017).  After that, I'd disagree with you on 2019, Day 1 was not good at all.  But I understand that there's a huge degree of subjectivity in the Drafts, I think that how people evaluate those often comes down to experience.  

 

But let's be real, at the end of the day the single draft pick that stands out among all others, entirely indisputably, is Allen.  

 

I will say this, over the "Last 20 Years" we've had a litany of coaches and GMs.  Fans argued in defense saying similar things about Whaley and Donahoe, and about Levy, Nix, and Brandon to a lesser extent.  But they didn't last long, but put Allen on their teams, and the same conversations would arise. 

 

Same for coaching.  I don't see our team having been any different during that "Last 20 Years" than it is now, other than having NE challenging for the division every season, if Williams, Gailey, possibly even Ryan or Jauron had had Allen.  None of those coaches would navigate us through the playoffs to win it all, but with Allen they'd likely have made the playoffs, thereby relegating that "Last 20 Years" to nonexistence.  I don't see much of a difference now, besides Allen.  

 

Here's the thing, some people see that McD's missing something, something critical.  It's obvious in several ways.  

 

First, on gamedays he runs up and down the sideline clapping like one of those chime monkeys, what, apparently thinking that if in good participation-ribbon style everyone's a winner and "they'll do better next time" during games when we're clearly not cutting the Webers.  This is particularly noticeable in the playoffs.  

 

He preaches character and accountability, the latter which is a trait of the first, but we can write the summaries for all of his future post-game pressers right now;  ...

 

'We need to do better.  This falls on me, I'm ultimately responsible.  We'll look at the tape and see what we can change.  [blah blah blah]" 

 

Here's the problem with that, nothing ever changes.  Nothing.  And if we're going to be honest here, his biggest failures are hardly of the "yeah, we should have gone for it on 4th ..." type things, they're incredibly egregious breakdowns in tactics and strategy that even well-seasoned fans know better than to do or not do.  

 

But again, nothing changes.  Accountability?  So we fire the Safeties Coach?  The position coach that had one of his two starters out all season, the other injured most of it, with questionable backups, and whose unit still outperformed most of the other units on the team?  THAT'S accountability?  

 

This doesn't go unnoticed, by fans, media, etc.  In fact, it goes very very noticed.  And just like Brady won Belichick 4-6 extra games every season, so too Allen clearly is the reason for most of our wins.  But let's do a simple exercise, let's suppose that Allen is only responsible for a mere 4 wins/season.  That's it, just 4, when we all know it's much higher.  Here would be McD's record without Allen, and I'll only include the last three seasons because Allen was developing in his first tow, in fairness;  

 

9-7, 7-9, 9-6  

 

Suppose he had those records.  Would the support for him be the same?  For Beane?  Obviously not.  We wouldn't have even won the division, much less done anything in the playoffs, with that.  

 

Some people see that, others do not.  That's the foibles of a fan community where anyone can opine and say their piece.  OTOH, does it really matter, ... what you and I disagree on?  Not really.  OBD isn't reading these threads figuring out what to do.  LOL  

 

So it's fun to bicker and argue about, but "let's not bicker and argue over who killed who."   (Presumably you get the reference)  LOL  

 

Stay at piece my friend!!  

 

 

 

Sounds similar to what people said about Andy Reid for 15 years.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

I bet he was thinking how boring and easy those two QB’s have it. 😃

[Don Otreply]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

What does this have to do with Allen?  I was pointing out just how terrible a play it was and yes stating after the year Allen had if it was him, it would have been discussed ad nauseum, but the announcers didn't even make a big deal about it.  

 

Take a look at the 4th comment in this thread when I did joke about "If it had been Allen".

 

Start a new thread discussing Allen's to's, because there haven't been enough.😉

Dude, you brought Allen into the thread by wanting to compare  responses to a fumble, duh…, 😂

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Sounds similar to what people said about Andy Reid for 15 years.

 

LMAO

 

Yeah, except with one MAJOR exception!  

 

ALLEN!!!  

 

Reid had Pederson, McNabb, and Vick.  What's next, you going to explain to us all that those QBs were just as good as Allen now too?  

 

Put Allen on those teams, do you think it would have changed the perceptions of him?  

 

And still, he regularly had his Eagles in the playoffs, usually winning his division, with incredible division competition in some of those years, unlike McD, in 9 of those 14 seasons.  

 

You can't have it both ways, that Allen's so great, but other teams that don't have an Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, etc., have no excuses.  Yet, that's your position.  

 

 

[Real McClappy]

27 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Thanks. Took it from here; did they overlook Mahomes’ fumbles? 0 did look low!
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/nfl-qb-most-turnovers-2022

you're right, another link had wrong data

[4th&long]

Allen would have been bettered by the eagles defensive line. 

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Dude, you brought Allen into the thread by wanting to compare  responses to a fumble, duh…, 😂

I was making a joke about the thread title and thinking it was about the fumble.  I pointed out just how terrible it was.  

 

Wasn't meant to be a debate on Allen, more so to discuss just how bad a play it was.

 

Obviously missing the nuance. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Don Otreply]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I was making a joke about the thread title and thinking it was bout the fumble.  I pointed out just how terrible it was.  

 

Wasn't meant to be a debate on Allen, more so to discuss just how bad a play it was.

 

Obviously missing the nuance. 

Ah, didn’t read every post, my bad, 

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, 4th&long said:

Allen would have been bettered by the eagles defensive line. 

 

Yesterday?  

 

Ya think?  

[julian]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I love Josh. 

 

I think the narrative that he can do no wrong and is constantly let down by everyone around him is false.

Allen is his biggest critic, he owns his poor play every time without failure, as long as he realizes his mistakes and continues to try and improve his game then why in the hell do you care that some fans won’t criticize him ?

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, julian said:

Allen is his biggest critic, he owns his poor play every time without failure, as long as he realizes his mistakes and continues to try and improve his game then why in the hell do you care that some fans won’t criticize him ?

 

I think the concerning thing is holds up his hands and admits errors, and does beat himself up over them, but there's very little in signs of change or improvement. Is the criticism of Josh this post season any different to what was said about him before the post season in 2021? In 2019? 2018? He had a breakthrough season in 2020, but hasn't hit the same heights since then. Still elite, but the 2020 regular season/2021 post season shows him at his peak. Understandably, he can't get there all the time but he should have the ability to raise his floor.

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, julian said:

Allen is his biggest critic, he owns his poor play every time without failure, as long as he realizes his mistakes and continues to try and improve his game then why in the hell do you care that some fans won’t criticize him ?

Because it’s a football discussion board and “Josh is great SHUT UP” isn’t good discussion 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I love Josh. 

 

I think the narrative that he can do no wrong and is constantly let down by everyone around him is false.

Well FC, I do agree Josh is not infallible but of the top 5 qbs in this league,  Josh clearly has the weakest OL.  And you can't deny the propensity for turnovers is greatly enhanced by this fact.  Now add no WR2 or consistent run game and things get even more amplified.  

[PBF81]

15 minutes ago, julian said:

Allen is his biggest critic, he owns his poor play every time without failure, as long as he realizes his mistakes and continues to try and improve his game then why in the hell do you care that some fans won’t criticize him ?

 

If we got so much from McD.  ... or Beane for that matter.  Those guys quietly hide behind carefully crafted statements, preach "character," but then don't practice accountability, which is a huge component of character.  They may think that everyone's too stupid to see that, but most people see it quite clearly.  

 

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Because it’s a football discussion board and “Josh is great SHUT UP” isn’t good discussion 

 

Well taken, but Josh isn't what's holding this team up, to the contrary.  If you want to live by the big play potential of your own QB, then be prepared to die by it too.  

 

Where would McD be, and by inference Beane, if Allen were not our QB?  We wouldn't even have won the division to date ant that "Last 20 Years" would be "The Last 25 Years ... and counting."  

 

We have a fan base starving for a Super Bowl win, a Championship.  If we put up a poll as to who of us will be content to simply "making the playoffs" during McBeane's tenure, w/o ever sniffing a Championship, I'm guessing that the results stating that they'd be satisfied with that would be incredibly low, if not zero outright.  

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by PBF81

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

If we got so much from McD.  ... or Beane for that matter.  Those guys quietly hide behind carefully crafted statements, preach "character," but then don't practice accountability, which is a huge component of character.  They may think that everyone's too stupid to see that, but most people see it quite clearly.  

 

 

Well taken, but Josh isn't what's holding this team up, to the contrary.  If you want to live by the big play potential of your own QB, then be prepared to die by it too.  

 

Where would McD be, and by inference Beane, if Allen were not our QB?  We wouldn't even have won the division to date ant that "Last 20 Years" would be "The Last 25 Years ... and counting."  

 

We have a fan base starving for a Super Bowl win, a Championship.  If we put up a poll as to who of us will be content to simply "making the playoffs" during McBeane's tenure, w/o ever sniffing a Championship, I'm guessing that the results stating that they'd be satisfied with that would be incredibly low, if not zero outright.  

 

 

 

Where would Andy Reid be without Mahomes?  We already know, zero Super Bowls.

 

I disagree ENTIRELY that Josh's recent propensity for TO's have not held this team back.  In the Bills 3 losses last year (which locked them out of the 1 seed after the cancelled Bengals game), Josh had 4 picks and 2 FL.  1 less TO of the SIX that he had means we would probably have locked up the 1 seed, the bye (which this team desperately needed), and the path of Jaguars to AFCCG at home vs the winner of Chiefs/Bengals.

 

Does that mean we would have won the Superbowl or even the AFCCG?  No, we may not have. But if I had the choice of bye, Jags, then winner of Bengals/Chiefs then Super Bowl vs Dolphins, Bengals, Chiefs in Arrowhead then Superbowl, I take option 1 all day every day.

[PBF81]

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Where would Andy Reid be without Mahomes?  We already know, zero Super Bowls.

 

I disagree ENTIRELY that Josh's recent propensity for TO's have not held this team back.  In the Bills 3 losses last year (which locked them out of the 1 seed after the cancelled Bengals game), Josh had 4 picks and 2 FL.  1 less TO of the SIX that he had means we would probably have locked up the 1 seed, the bye (which this team desperately needed), and the path of Jaguars to AFCCG at home vs the winner of Chiefs/Bengals.

 

Does that mean we would have won the Superbowl or even the AFCCG?  No, we may not have. But if I had the choice of bye, Jags, then winner of Bengals/Chiefs then Super Bowl vs Dolphins, Bengals, Chiefs in Arrowhead then Superbowl, I take option 1 all day every day.

 

Well, OK, I think you're only looking at  part of the picture.  How many games have we won that we otherwise would have lost had we had any number of the QBs we've had prior to Allen.  How about Peterman?  Do you think that we'd have even posted a winning record with him, McD's endorsement?   Does that make any kind of impact regarding your respect for McD?  Just sayin'. 

 

How about Tyrod Taylor?  Fitzpatrick?  Manuel?  Orton?  Bledsoe?  etc.  

I don't think we'd even have won a division title with them under McD.  

 

Besides, we have Allen, Reid has Mahomes.  Are you saying that we're forever incapable of beating Reid/Mahomes with McD/Allen then?  Sure seems like it.  And if so, then what are we waiting for.  And we're not getting rid of Allen.  

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

Those QBs were experiencing pressure yesterday. Schemes got the ball out quickly and the QBs mobility helped them out too. The threat of a run game slowed the rush down also

[PBF81]

... and BTW, just as with Levy, if we had had Johnson or Parcells as our coach instead of Levy, yes, I think we'd have at least 2 Championships under our belt now.  

 

Same for McD.  If Reid were the coach of this team, or Zac Taylor, I think we'd have won one by now as well.  Same for several other coaches of offensive miind.  

 

Using that argument to suggest that all that McD needs is 15 more years and he too can win a SB is ridiculous.  Particularly since Reid didn't have Mahomes or Allen back then.  If he had, yeah, I'm sure he'd have won one back then.  

 

He made the playoffs regularly, usually winning the division back then, with three QBs none of which was better than above-average.  He was in one SB and lost by 3 points.  Yeah, I think that had he had an Allen or Mahomes back then, that yes, he'd have won that one and likely another or two.  

 

Reid was still a good coach back then and didn't make the blundering tactical errors that McD makes.  

 

"The Process" has run its course.  

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by PBF81

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Without a defensive TD the Chiefs would have lost. 

 

And one handed to them on a platter.

[Manther]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

Agreed

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

Agreed

[Solomon Grundy]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

"The Process" has run its course

McDermott changed the culture at OBD. Can he "lead the charge" to a SB win??

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, OK, I think you're only looking at  part of the picture.  How many games have we won that we otherwise would have lost had we had any number of the QBs we've had prior to Allen.  How about Peterman?  Do you think that we'd have even posted a winning record with him, McD's endorsement?   Does that make any kind of impact regarding your respect for McD?  Just sayin'. 

 

How about Tyrod Taylor?  Fitzpatrick?  Manuel?  Orton?  Bledsoe?  etc.  

I don't think we'd even have won a division title with them under McD.  

 

Besides, we have Allen, Reid has Mahomes.  Are you saying that we're forever incapable of beating Reid/Mahomes with McD/Allen then?  Sure seems like it.  And if so, then what are we waiting for.  And we're not getting rid of Allen.  

I think we can beat Reid/Mahomes if Allen plays better, McD and the gang coaches better, and the team gets better. All things I believe are possible.

 

McD posted a winning record and a playoff berth with Tyrod so I’m kind of unclear on what point you’re trying to make.

 

Reid had more success without Mahomes than McD had without Allen, but Reid had better QB’s. Reid had McNabb, Vick, and Alex Smith. All infinite better options than Peterman and EJ and the gang. But he still never won a Super Bowl without Mahomes. And he had A LOT of Mahomes-less years, where McD had 1. 
 

Where we differ is, yes, obviously McD wouldn’t have as much success without a top 5 QB. There is no team in history that has. BB hasn’t been rattling off Super Bowls without Brady. Arians never won without Brady. Reid never won without Mahomes. Payton and Brees. Kubiak and Manning. The list goes on and on. 
 

But that doesn’t mean your QB can’t play better to give you a better shot. Big Ben, Brady, Manning, Mahomes, Brees etc have all vacillated year to year in terms of performance to a certain extent. They didn’t put up 5k yards and 50 TD’s EVERY SEASON. They ebb and flow. So the solution is to put the best possible team around your QB, hope that your QB has a better performance than their average, and hope that it’s enough to beat the other contenders and superstars when it matters.

 

Patrick Mahomes is a better QB than Joe Burrow. But if Mahomes had 3 OL out instead of Burrow for the AFCCG, I believe there’s a REALLY good chance that Burrow is the one playing yesterday. 
 

This season, I believe that Josh Allen didn’t elevate his game like he did last season in the postseason. That’s okay. It happens. It’s okay to admit. The team played poorly, coaching wasn’t great and the QB didn’t elevate to a point to overcome that. All things that happen to all great players. The Chiefs won’t continue to run the table in the playoffs for the next decade. Bad breaks will come. The history of the NFL tells us this.

 

In summary, the answer is not “trade Allen” or “fire McD” or whatever. The answer is, “do the best job possible building around your franchise QB, and when the lights are brightest, hope he plays closer to 2020 regular season or 2021 postseason form than 2022 postseason form.”

[Mark Vader]

Can I imagine being a multi-millionaire QB in the NFL? Living in southern California, and having a superhot girlfriend?

[BullBuchanan]

3 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

If It wasn't "I need to play as good as these guys if I want to win a Super Bowl", then it isn't worth wondering about.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

He is just mad looking at the 2023 Futures NFL MVP Odds where Allen has a massive lead on Mahomes and everyone else.

 

Bills boards: Allen is a massive problem!! He isn't good enough! He turns the ball over way way too much!  He is a liability!  Wah! Wah! Wah!  

 

Vegas:  NFL MVP Favorite by a landslide.

 

Good MVP odds…. When’s the parade?

[julian]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Because it’s a football discussion board and “Josh is great SHUT UP” isn’t good discussion 

Lol… maybe more reading and less posting is order for those who’ve run out of “football discussion” and now must resort to critiquing other fans ability or willingness to critique players.

 

 Yawn

[Airseven]

Yes, I can imagine watching the game in some boujie west coast loft and laying out my gear for the AM tee time.

[SCBills]

53 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

McDermott changed the culture at OBD. Can he "lead the charge" to a SB win??

 

If we re-sign Edmunds and don't try to move Oliver, while signing some low/mid tier vets in Free Agency... I'm really going to lose faith.

 

If the Eagles (healthy) Defense wasn't able to slow down a high powered Offense in the post-season (where the style of play is different), then it's just not going to happen anymore.   

 

KC is so far ahead of us on the curve..  They invest heavy on Offense, with an Offensive genius HC, while giving Spags a mediocre Defense centered around an elite player in Chris Jones at DT. 

 

Would they re-sign Edmunds at the expense of protecting Mahomes?   Not explore trading a non-difference maker in his contract year so they can use his money for another Mahomes weapon?

 

Well, they hit on their Day 2 picks, so perhaps they never get in that situation, but they likely wouldn't.  They understand the modern NFL.  They don't have an outdated philosophy holding them back from allowing Mahomes to consistently have the best of everything they can provide. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

McDermott changed the culture at OBD. Can he "lead the charge" to a SB win??

 

That is the quintessential question, although I would argue that Allen changed the culture.  Cart/Horse thing.  McD would be history by now w/o Allen.  Remember, he "saw something in Peterman."  

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

I think we can beat Reid/Mahomes if Allen plays better, McD and the gang coaches better, and the team gets better. All things I believe are possible.

 

...

 

In summary, the answer is not “trade Allen” or “fire McD” or whatever. The answer is, “do the best job possible building around your franchise QB, and when the lights are brightest, hope he plays closer to 2020 regular season or 2021 postseason form than 2022 postseason form.”

 

Well, belief is one thing, reality often quite another.  That's what it boils down to, who believes that he can and conversely, who believes that he cannot.  

 

Are they doing the best around Allen?   If not, why not?  Have they learned?  Are they actually correcting their issues & errors, both McD and Beane alike.  I'm not seeing it.  Apparently you are.  Hence the question.  

[The Jokeman]

56 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

If we re-sign Edmunds and don't try to move Oliver, while signing some low/mid tier vets in Free Agency... I'm really going to lose faith.

 

If the Eagles (healthy) Defense wasn't able to slow down a high powered Offense in the post-season (where the style of play is different), then it's just not going to happen anymore.   

 

KC is so far ahead of us on the curve..  They invest heavy on Offense, with an Offensive genius HC, while giving Spags a mediocre Defense centered around an elite player in Chris Jones at DT. 

 

Would they re-sign Edmunds at the expense of protecting Mahomes?   Not explore trading a non-difference maker in his contract year so they can use his money for another Mahomes weapon?

 

Well, they hit on their Day 2 picks, so perhaps they never get in that situation, but they likely wouldn't.  They understand the modern NFL.  They don't have an outdated philosophy holding them back from allowing Mahomes to consistently have the best of everything they can provide. 

Skyy Moore was a hit? Really? Sure he had a TD in the Super Bowl but that was his only catch and on the season he had 22. Not great production for a 2nd Round pick at WR. Mecole Hardman another 2nd Round  WR pick of there's that's is averaging 2.6 catches per game in his 4 year career oh and he was 8 picks before DJ Metcalf that most scream we missed out on. Oh another 2nd Rounder in 2018 Breeland Speaks is out of the NFL. KC might have had a strong draft in 2022 but they've been marginally better than the Bills at drafting when look at the whole picture. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, whorlnut said:

This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

It's been that way for a long time, that's why I wasn't so big on the Von signing.  He just doesn't do enough to come close to impacting our win total.

 

Unfortunately, the Bills administration definitely favors defense.

And on top of it, the defensive guys they made a priority aren't particularly good!
 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

He also saw good coaches, which we don't have

[Mango]

20 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Skyy Moore was a hit? Really? Sure he had a TD in the Super Bowl but that was his only catch and on the season he had 22. Not great production for a 2nd Round pick at WR. Mecole Hardman another 2nd Round  WR pick of there's that's is averaging 2.6 catches per game in his 4 year career oh and he was 8 picks before DJ Metcalf that most scream we missed out on. Oh another 2nd Rounder in 2018 Breeland Speaks is out of the NFL. KC might have had a strong draft in 2022 but they've been marginally better than the Bills at drafting when look at the whole picture. 

 

I think Mahomes does a great job of spreading the ball around. Similar to Brady (barf) they force teams to cover everybody even if they are middling depth receivers. We don't do a good enough job at that. Sure the Chiefs highlight Kelce, but they throw the ball to anybody. For reference the Bills have 7 players who average one target per game. The Chiefs have 10. KC has 4 players with 50+ catches and another 4 with 30+. The Bills have 1 player with 50+ catches and 4 over 30.

 

We don't really spread the ball around at all. 

[Ramza86]

5 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Every QB is going to be prone to a boneheaded error. The issue is Josh seems more boom or bust than the rest. He’s in the top five QBs in the league because of his physical attributes but his mentality is dragging him back. The O Line isn’t helping, no, but he does make more ‘unforced’ errors than his peers at the top.

 

Which I believe would be very much corrected with a good offensive line.

 

As you saw Mahomes had one of his most efficient years with the improvement on the offensive line.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

I think the URL injury to Josh on a blindside hit was the first wake-up call this front office needed.  If you recall Bryce Huff ran right around David Quessenberry which could have possibly taken Josh out for the rest of the season and maybe longer.   

 

Beane and McDermott whiffed on OL badly this season and it cost them.  Their biggest mistake was counting on Roger Saffold who not only had a miserable season but also forced Ryan Bates to the right side where he isn’t as effective.

 

The other mistake was counting too heavy on Spencer Brown.  Much like his rookie season he struggled down the stretch and was often injured.  
 

I am certain the Bills will grab at least one lineman high and try to find better depth than last season.  
 

 

 

[zow2]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

 

Yep. That summarizes what Beane and every other GM should be thinking.  NFL defenders can be coached and schemed to slow down guys like Mahomes and Hurts, but you're never going to stop them.   Paying a 34 year old edge rusher, with a bad knee an obscene amount of money to get you to the promised land was a swing and a miss.

[Mr. WEO]

I'm here for the fresh O-line takes...

[Beast]

<checks my bank account>
 

No, I can’t. LOL

Edited February 13, 2023 by Beast