Can you imagine being Allen last night?

[whorlnut]

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

[Big Turk]

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

[The Jokeman]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

Without a defensive TD the Chiefs would have lost. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by The Jokeman

[Billsfan1972]

I thought this would be about Hurts Fumble TD, which hasn't been discussed enough and one of the worst plays I've ever seen.

 

If that was Allen people would lose it about his issues "holding on to the ball". 

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Without a defensive TD the Chiefs would have loss. 

 

Their defense didn't force that, Hurts simply dropped the ball untouched. Let's not pretend they did something other than being in the right position to pick up an easy fumble with nobody but 3 Chief players around it.

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I thought this would be about Hurts Fumble TD, which hasn't been discussed enough and one of the worst plays I've ever seen.

 

If that was Allen people would lose it about his issues "holding on to the ball". 

 

Funnily enough Mahomes had a very similar play against the Bengals.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Big Turk

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Their defense didn't force that, Hurts simply dropped the ball untouched. Let's not pretend they did something other than being in the right position to pick up an easy fumble with nobody but 3 Chief players around it.

Without it KC would have needed there defense to get a stop for them to have a chance, hell they still did need that and got that.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Their defense didn't force that, Hurts simply dropped the ball untouched. Let's not pretend they did something other than being in the right position to pick up an easy fumble with nobody but 3 Chief players around it.

 

Funnily enough Mahomes had a very similar play against the Bengals.

Every QB is going to be prone to a boneheaded error. The issue is Josh seems more boom or bust than the rest. He’s in the top five QBs in the league because of his physical attributes but his mentality is dragging him back. The O Line isn’t helping, no, but he does make more ‘unforced’ errors than his peers at the top.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Without it KC would have needed there defense to get a stop for them to have a chance, hell they still did need that and got that.

 

Let's stop playing hypothetical "what if" football.  You can't make assumptions on what "would have happened" from that point since the entire game would have been played differently. Those type of plays don't exist in some vacuum, they exist in the totality of the game.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Big Turk

[McBean]

51 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

Beane has no choice? Lol, you mean McDermott.

 

Beane looks at the books and the cap. McDermott runs this entire organization.

[FireChans]

51 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

 

This should clear his head from throwing his teammates under the bus.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

 

This should clear his head from throwing his teammates under the bus.

😆 You’ve really got it in for Josh. 

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Let's stop playing hypothetical "what if" football.  You can't make assumptions on what "would have happened" from that point since the entire game would have been played differently. Those type of plays don't exist in some vacuum, they exist in the totality of the game.

I do believe I still said they needed a stop and got one, or did you forget that they were down by 10 at half?

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

Every QB is going to be prone to a boneheaded error. The issue is Josh seems more boom or bust than the rest. He’s in the top five QBs in the league because of his physical attributes but his mentality is dragging him back. The O Line isn’t helping, no, but he does make more ‘unforced’ errors than his peers at the top.

 

It's not some major gap between him and the other QBs as some would want us to believe...did you watch Mahomes in the first Denver game? He singlehandedly let them back into the game down 27-0 with 3 terrible INTs. Mahomes has led the NFL in dropped interceptions over the past 3 years as well. Burrow against the Steelers with 4 INTs?  Let's stop pretending these other QBs play mistake free football.  

[PBF81]

Just now, McBean said:

Beane has no choice? Lol, you mean McDermott.

 

Beane looks at the books and the cap. McDermott runs this entire organization.

 

Agree, but that's what happens when you how a coach and allow him too how good own GM, and one that hasn't earned the role.  

 

I've been saying the same, something stinks here, and I bet that it's in McD's contact.  

[Not Applicable]

There were zero real sacks in that game, correct? I think Hurts ran out of bounds one time before the line of scrimmage, so that technically counted, but no real pocket sacks.

 

Allen would feast in that environment. As it stands, either one of those teams' defensive line would've steamrolled us.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

😆 You’ve really got it in for Josh. 

I love Josh. 

 

I think the narrative that he can do no wrong and is constantly let down by everyone around him is false.

[PBF81]

55 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I can’t even imagine what was going through our star qbs head last night while he was watching that game. He saw 2 dominant OL’s completely handle the other team’s defensive front and give their qbs the time they needed to do their jobs. Allen is a team first guy and would NEVER throw his guys under the bus, but I can’t imagine for one second he isn’t envious of the Mahomes and hurts.

 

This is why Beane has no choice this off-season other than to overhaul the wall in front of Allen. His defensive heavy offseasons haven’t been the answer in the playoffs. This is an offense first league and good offensive lines can negate a good to great defensive line. 

 

Don't worry, "Trust the Process," be patient, and let the youngsters at HC & GM have another decade to learn.  

[Big Turk]

Just now, Patrick Fitzryan said:

There were zero real sacks in that game, correct? I think Hurts ran out of bounds one time before the line of scrimmage, so that technically counted, but no real pocket sacks.

 

Allen would feast in that environment. As it stands, either one of those teams' defensive line would've steamrolled us.

 

Did not realize KC was second in the NFL in sacks.

[KDIGGZ]

Yes, I can imagine being a 26 year old with $250 million watching the super bowl with my hot gf in my mansion. Must be nice 👍

[LABILLBACKER]

This organization had every opportunity to build a dominant OL in front of Josh in 2019 and beyond.  They've failed him, plain & simple.  They choose defensive failures over protecting and supporting your greatest asset.  Let McD wrestle with that.

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

It's not some major gap between him and the other QBs as some would want us to believe...did you watch Mahomes in the first Denver game? He singlehandedly let them back into the game down 27-0 with 3 terrible INTs. Mahomes has led the NFL in dropped interceptions over the past 3 years as well. Burrow against the Steelers with 4 INTs?  Let's stop pretending these other QBs play mistake free football.  

No. The issue is Mahomes or Burrow seem to have a hideous game and move on. Josh’s errors seem to permeate across a run. Maybe fewer in a single game but they build up across a number.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Don't worry, "Trust the Process," be patient, and let the youngsters at HC & GM have another decade to learn.  

 

Sounds similar to people trying to run Rosen out of Philly in 2020...all his picks sucked, he had no idea what he was doing, etc etc etc...pretty much the same nonsense we hear about Beane now.  A year and a half can change a lot.

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

No. The issue is Mahomes or Burrow seem to have a hideous game and move on. Josh’s errors seem to permeate across a run. Maybe fewer in a single game but they build up across a number.

 

Do they? Mahomes and Burrow had 2 less than Allen who was "terrible".  Sounds like a made up narrative by people who don't watch many of their games.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Big Turk

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I love Josh. 

 

I think the narrative that he can do no wrong and is constantly let down by everyone around him is false.

Agree to an extent. I definitely think that out of Mahomes, Burrow and himself he has the worst offense to play with and the weakest OL. But he doesn’t help himself.

 

My basic take is he’s physically the best QB in the league but, mentality wise, he trails behind those two. And that’s why it’s irritating - he has it all but he can’t quite compute how to get the best out of himself more often than not.

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Sounds similar to people trying to run Rosen out of Philly in 2020...all his picks sucked, he had no idea what he was doing, etc etc etc...pretty much the same nonsense we hear about Beane now.  A year and a half can change a lot.

 

LMAO, you comparing Philly's drafts to ours now?  

 

Hope about Philly's OL?  

 

DL?  Front-7?  

 

Good one.

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by PBF81

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Sounds similar to people trying to run Rosen out of Philly in 2020...all his picks sucked, he had no idea what he was doing, etc etc etc...pretty much the same nonsense we hear about Beane now.  A year and a half can change a lot.

 

Do they? Mahomes and Burrow had 2 less than Allen who was "terrible".  Sounds like a made up narrative by people who don't watch many of their games.

Turnover wise, so fumbles as well as interceptions, Josh had 19, Burrow 15 and Mahomes 12 across the regular season.

[Big Turk]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

LMAO, you comparing Philly's drafts to ours now?

 

Over the last 6 years?  Sure, I'd take that bet.  Over the past 1 or 2?  Eagles have done better. Please stop pretending that teams consistently have top 5 drafts every year because we see time and again teams have a few good years in a row and then a few bad years with drafts.  Someone already broke down the drafts for teams over the last 6 years, Bills were the top drafting team by a wide margin in the first 3 years of that.  

[Billz4ever]

33 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

As we have seen time and again, defense doesn't really matter in the playoffs against elite teams.  They are gonna score their points. Bills had the #6, #1, and #2 defenses in the NFL and got smoked all three times in the playoffs against elite offenses. 

 

Eagles had the 3rd most sacks in NFL history next to 84 and 85 Bears and got 0 last night. 2nd best D in the NFL, allowed 38 points(31 if you don't count the Defensive TD by KC). KC moved the ball and scored at will on every possession in the 2nd half. 

 

Defense only has to be around league average to be good enough. Bills need to allocate 90% of resources to offensive line and offensive weapons. The rules are simply tilted too far in the offenses favor for it to matter with defense, unless your DLine can maul the other team's OLine and usually that isn't going to happen unless multiple starters are out. 

The old adage "Defense wins Championships" is a thing of the past and no longer relevant in today's NFL.  Between rules changes and offensive schemes that take advantage of them, offenses have the clear advantage now. The league wants to see points scored and lots of them.  

 

I don't even know if the 85 Bears D would be able to do much to stop the high-powered offenses of today.  

 

The defensive-minded dinosaurs need to understand this, or they will just become fossils of a bygone era.

[PBF81]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Over the last 6 years?  Sure, I'd take that bet.  Over the past 1 or 2?  Eagles have done better. Please stop pretending that teams consistently have top 5 drafts every year because we see time and again teams have a few good years in a row and then a few bad years with drafts.  Someone already broke down the drafts for teams over the last 6 years, Bills were the top drafting team by a wide margin in the first 3 years of that.  

 

There's no comparison in the lines.  Give it up.

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Sounds similar to people trying to run Rosen out of Philly in 2020...all his picks sucked, he had no idea what he was doing, etc etc etc...pretty much the same nonsense we hear about Beane now.  A year and a half can change a lot.

 

Do they? Mahomes and Burrow had 2 less than Allen who was "terrible".  Sounds like a made up narrative by people who don't watch many of their games.

Lmao what

 

Allen led the league in TO's by a decent amount.  Led the league in RZ TO's. 

 

These are bad statistics for your QB to be the worst at

[Big Turk]

Just now, PBF81 said:

 

There's no comparison in the lines.  Give it up.

 

I didn't know that's the only thing that counted in drafts.  Idiotic take if that's your full argument.

Just now, FireChans said:

Lmao what

 

Allen led the league in TO's by a decent amount.  Led the league in RZ TO's. 

 

These are bad statistics for your QB to be the worst at

 

And yet they still won 13 games and were 2nd in the NFL in point differential.  Allen is going to be like Favre in some ways, he is going to make some boneheaded plays, but he is going to make far more good ones than bad ones.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’m sure being Josh Allen was very good last night. 

[PBF81]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

I didn't know that's the only thing that counted in drafts.  Idiotic take if that's your full argument.

 

You're right, Beane's drafts have been nothing short of solid.  

 

As you were.  

 

I really don't want to argue this anymore, you obviously have an immovable position, whatever it is.  🙂

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

The old adage "Defense wins Championships" is a thing of the past and no longer relevant in today's NFL.  Between rules changes and offensive schemes that take advantage of them, offenses have the clear advantage now. The league wants to see points scored and lots of them.  

 

I don't even know if the 85 Bears D would be able to do much to stop the high-powered offenses of today.  

 

The defensive-minded dinosaurs need to understand this, or they will just become fossils of a bygone era.

 

Defense needs to be focused on generating turnovers, that's how these teams with average defenses become "good enough" to win.  Bills are very good at this already.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

I didn't know that's the only thing that counted in drafts.  Idiotic take if that's your full argument.

 

And yet they still won 13 games and were 2nd in the NFL in point differential.  Allen is going to be like Favre in some ways, he is going to make some boneheaded plays, but he is going to make far more good ones than bad ones.

And that's why Favre isn't in anyone's top 5 QB's ever, and why he only won 1 SB, and isn't even close to being the best QB of his era.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You're right, Beane's drafts have been nothing short of solid.  

 

As you were.  

 

I really don't want to argue this anymore, you obviously have an immovable position, whatever it is.  🙂

 

That Beane drafted very well in his first 3 years and not so well in the last 3. Not sure how you could argue that overall.

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

And that's why Favre isn't in anyone's top 5 QB's ever, and why he only won 1 SB, and isn't even close to being the best QB of his era.

 

He was a first ballot hall of famer and 3 time MVP are you saying that's not good enough and you wouldn't be happy if Josh had his career? Clearly people thought he was the best player in a season 3 times. Your argument sounds a little revisionist. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Big Turk

[UKBillFan]

I realise I’m showing a split personality over Josh so to try and clear things up - he’s low in the list of things that are wrong with this team but he has issues which needs to be sorted out. People blame Dorsey for schemes but there have been several occasions where players have been open and Josh has overlooked them. For a guy with his strength he has a surprising issue holding on to the ball, with too many fumbles against his name. He has a disposition for the big play which over-rides common sense.

 

But he has no little to no protection from his O Line and, outside of Diggs, our wide receivers aren’t in the same league as the Bengals and Kelce and Pacheco are or have shown more to their play than Knox and Cook, both who I rate. He has a head coach who is a DC at heart, and has focused the building of the roster on that side of the ball, without learning the lessons of Green Bay. Recalibrate the O Line and get a proper WR2 and we’d see an improvement in our offensive play, about that I have no doubt.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Defense needs to be focused on generating turnovers, that's how these teams with average defenses become "good enough" to win.  Bills are very good at this already.

Yep, even more so now with the high-powered offenses, the number of possessions is key.  If a defense can force a mistake and generate a turnover, that's really all you need to win now because you will just outscore them.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

That Beane drafted very well in his first 3 years and not so well in the last 3. Not sure how you could argue that overall.

 

He was a first ballot hall of famer, are you saying that's not good enough and you wouldn't be happy if Josh had his career?

I'm saying that Brett Favre had no right to sit there and say "man I wish I got help like Brady did" when Brady was a much better QB.

 

If Josh Allen is a first ballot HoFer, and doesn't ever win a SB, I won't be happy. If he wins one, he could steal $60M annually from the Bills and show up to camp 300 lbs and I would still love him.

[Gregg]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m sure being Josh Allen was very good last night. 

 

In his 20's and making millions of dollars. He is financially set for life unless he is an idiot with his money like Tyson was. He will lead lifestyle that most of us can only dream of having.

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I'm saying that Brett Favre had no right to sit there and say "man I wish I got help like Brady did" when Brady was a much better QB.

 

If Josh Allen is a first ballot HoFer, and doesn't ever win a SB, I won't be happy. If he wins one, he could steal $60M annually from the Bills and show up to camp 300 lbs and I would still love him.

 

Favre was a 3 time NFL MVP in 3 straight years between 1995-1997, are you claiming the voting was rigged or something.  C'mon man, let's stop pretending he wasn't among the best of his time. This sounds really revisionist.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Big Turk