Gonna throw this out there and then duck lol. Pass rush.

[machine gun kelly]

My thought is we may be picking 31st or 32nd.  If this is the case I’m hopeful we can trade up to get a stud WR  at our first pick.  Guards after.  As long as Mitch is ok, we have our Tackles and Center.  
 

We upgrade our G’s and a WR, we also might look for depth at Safety.  D Line is more about extending a bunch of our current guys.  I like our crew.  They were the glue when we for the first time had secondary injury issues.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

27 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

Agreed. Sign or Trade for an impactful WR AND Draft a WR in Round 1.  

Diggs

______  Impactful WR via Sign/Trade
______  1st Round WR
Davis
Shakir
McKenzie
 

I like this approach at WR.

 

I think the team is coming to the end of the road with McKenzie, Kumerow, Crowder. 
 

I still think Davis is an important piece to the team, but I am still onboard with 1st Round WR. Skill/speed/size is a must add, in that order.

 

In a traditional team building mode, I’d think #2 TE would be a target, but Tight End in this offense is not targeted high enough to warrant top investment in another, i.e. Mike Mayer from ND for example. 
 

I think coaching is going to have to take place of more investment in the defense in high value areas.

 

Bills are going to have to get more out of Elam, Rousseau, Basham and Epenesa and Oliver. Those are all top flight assets. Coach them up, improve the off-season workout planning. 

 

But this team has been mediocre on the OLine at LG, RG, RT for years, and Morse concussion history factors in as well. 
 

Interior OLine and we’ll need better than Quesenberry and Doyle at OT. 

 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

Don't be surprised if a DT is picked in the 3rd or 4th round to take Phillips spot and understudy for Jones. All this stuff will depend on value=need of course. You can sometimes score a DJ Reader type DT in that range who just needs a year or two of seasoning.

Edited January 12, 2023 by TheBeaneBandit

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Don't be surprised if a DT is picked in the 3rd or 4th round to take Phillips spot and understudy for Jones. All this stuff will depend on value=need of course. You can sometimes score a DJ Reader type DT in that range who just needs a year or two of seasoning.

I could definitely see this and wouldn’t mind as long as the offense is addressed in 1 and 2. 

[TheBeaneBandit]

Just now, whorlnut said:

I could definitely see this and wouldn’t mind as long as the offense is addressed in 1 and 2. 

Same. I'm pretty much offense in the first two rounds unless a blue chip defender had some crazy slide. But barring that it's time for an anti Aaron Rodgers approach here lol

[Peace Frog]

When we draft 32nd in the first round, I'd say the best OG or C available.  We have to protect 17 and won't find great value for an OT. Plus, OG needs an upgrade and/or 60 is one concussion away from retiring.

[MrEpsYtown]

48 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

So you would spend a first round pick on a DE to cover for Von the first half of the season?  Sorry…that philosophy seems way off to me. Meanwhile…Davis has been a huge disappointment and there isn’t anyone behind him as a boundary receiver. That’s more of a need than a fill-in DE IMO. 

 

BPA is what I am saying. And it's early but BPA is going to be a defensive player at the end of the first this year. What position that might be is debatable, but the OL isn't there and the good WR will be gone imo. To me, having little pass rush for 8 games is the poor plan. It's going to be the Tre white situation all over again. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

No way for next year. Groot is developing nicely. 

They need WR, OL, and probably safety. And that is if Edmunds stays.

Honestly I'd be happy if they just brought back Lawson and Hughes to go with Basham, Miller, and Groot. Epenesa is gone. Maybe get a 7th round pick for him but probably not even that. They probably give Basham another year but he's closer to a bust than he is a contributor at this point. 

Another veteran pass rusher besides Hughes would be fine. But next year's draft had better be a minimum of 4 if not 6 offensive players.

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

BPA is what I am saying. And it's early but BPA is going to be a defensive player at the end of the first this year. What position that might be is debatable, but the OL isn't there and the good WR will be gone imo. To me, having little pass rush for 8 games is the poor plan. It's going to be the Tre white situation all over again. 

It’s early, but you “know” BPA is going to be defense?  This is very contradicting. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Offensive line is THE biggest need in 2023... Mitch will probably retire and we have serviceable guys but most are BY NO MEANS suited as starters.

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

No way for next year. Groot is developing nicely. 

They need WR, OL, and probably safety. And that is if Edmunds stays.

Honestly I'd be happy if they just brought back Lawson and Hughes to go with Basham, Miller, and Groot. Epenesa is gone. Maybe get a 7th round pick for him but probably not even that. They probably give Basham another year but he's closer to a bust than he is a contributor at this point. 

Another veteran pass rusher besides Hughes would be fine. But next year's draft had better be a minimum of 4 if not 6 offensive players.

Well we only have 6 picks, and I can guarantee they won’t all be spent on offense. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

7 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t think that beane is a cross your fingers and hope type of guy

 

I would be happy with fourth round picks for guys like basham at this point

 

That's fair enough. I think this will be a very challenging offseason for Beane. With Allen's contract kicking in we're already over the 2023 cap with only 39 active roster players. 

 

We have 4 basic routes for the pass rush 

 

1) Free Agency - this would require a ton of contract restructuring to bring in a difference maker. Particularly if we keep Edmunds and/or Poyer. 

2) Draft - can we really afford to allocate more draft capital to the defense? Our offense has been neglected for years and is bad outside of Allen/Diggs. If we replace those 2 guys with league average players this would easily be a bottom 10 offense

3) Trade? - this is a tough option. We don't have extra draft capital and I don't want to trade any of our quality players. Getting mid round picks for our rotational guys isn't going to move the needle in obtaining a quality pass rusher. 

4) Stand pat and hope Von Miller returns at 100% and/or other guys currently on the roster (IE Basham, Epenesa) improve. 

 

Personally I'm leaning option 4, but it does depend on who is available at our draft picks. I'd like to see our draft picks heavily weighted towards O-Line or WR but if there's a fantastic pass rusher there we should pick that guy. I don't think anyone would complain if we draft another Groot late in the 1st.

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

21 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

When we draft 32nd in the first round, I'd say the best OG or C available.  We have to protect 17 and won't find great value for an OT. Plus, OG needs an upgrade and/or 60 is one concussion away from retiring.

All the interior guys rated in that range are not scheme fits for the Bills. They are power scheme guys not the zone or pin and pull that the Bills favor.

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Line and WR… IMO another WR across from Diggs is the #1 priority. 

 

For me, OL is #1, WR is #2.

[TheBeaneBandit]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Here is my argument for WR in 1. There likely will be someone there that is worth the value…if not, trade back to the top of 2 if another team wants to jump to get a player on the fifth year option. Where do a lot of the top WRs go?  Either in the first or early second round.
 

Guys like Tee Higgins, AJ Brown, Michael Thomas all went early 2. The point is…once our second round pick comes around, we might not have anyone to choose from. Early 2 seems to be the sweet spot for top offensive players that fell out of 1.  I’d hate to wait till the 60-something pick to get the leftovers at such a key position for this team. 

I like and agree with this approach 100%. Maybe with some restructuring a free agent interior lineman can be added with a development guy later in the draft.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

No option behind Edmunds?  Did you forget about the third round pick that they wasted this past draft?

 

I suppose he's an option.  I wouldn't consider it wasted - he just looked overwhelmed when inserted into the lineup.  

[BillsShredder83]

10 hours ago, special-teams said:

Von was NOT a big time player this season.  Mostly coverage sacks and not good against the run/

coverage sacks? lol wheeeeeen. not once.

not good against run? absurd

 

whos your fav team lol

[Scott7975]

There is always that BPA thing but I think this team needs to start investing its top assets into the offense.  They have some decisions to make on the D but this team needs some protection and or another top receiver for Josh.

[MrEpsYtown]

43 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

It’s early, but you “know” BPA is going to be defense?  This is very contradicting. 

likely, probably were the words I left out. Not guaranteeing anything. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

There is always that BPA thing but I think this team needs to start investing its top assets into the offense.  They have some decisions to make on the D but this team needs some protection and or another top receiver for Josh.

 

Top receiver is going to cost you a trade up, which likely means a 2024 1st rounder which is a tough sell when the team is now becoming quite expensive.  Need picks to include on rookie deals. 

 

I'd rather see what it would take to trade for Godwin or DJ Moore, especially if you include davis in the return.  

 

2022 - 6 went in the first - and the next tier was watson, robinson, metchie, thornton and pickens.  Combination of low statistical production, off field issues, injuries, and slot WRs.  Shakir honestly fits decently among that group as a projection going forward.  

 

2021 - 5 went in the first  - next tier was E. Moore, R. Moore, Eskridge, Atwell, and Marshall.  St. Brown and Palmer were the best players outside round 1 and they were 3rd and 4th round picks.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[Logic]

Haven't read through all six pages, but...

I'm officially in the "please just devote one offseason to improving the offense for once" camp.

 

I'm not on the same level of frustration with this front office's continual investment in the defense as some posters on this board. I think that having both a top 5 defense and top 5 offense show that they've done pretty well building the team overall and having some semblance of balance. I also recognize that as long as Sean McDermott is the head coach, they're never going to stop caring about having a quality defense.

With all of that said...

It's time to invest some serious draft capital into restocking the cupboards on offense. They're in good shape at QB, LT, C, TE1, and WR1. Nothing else should be off the table. Get a serious WR prospect (or two). Take a swing on a TE2. If one of the really talented running backs fall (and they don't re-sign Singletary), take a swing there. And most of all, draft some capable offensive linemen.

People will be able to make legitimate arguments for safeties, defensive linemen, etc, and they won't be wrong, BUT...Please, please, please, build around Josh Allen. Work towards making his life as easy as Mahomes' is. You want to keep the Bills' championship window open for as long as possible? Then protect Allen and give him weapons. A healthy, productive Allen is the best, most direct, and -- over the the long haul -- most logical way to win championships.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

Top receiver is going to cost you a trade up, which likely means a 2024 1st rounder which is a tough sell when the team is now becoming quite expensive.  Need picks to include on rookie deals. 

 

I'd rather see what it would take to trade for Godwin or DJ Moore, especially if you include davis in the return.  

 

2022 - 6 went in the first - and the next tier was watson, robinson, metchie, thornton and pickens.  Combination of low statistical production, off field issues, injuries, and slot WRs.  Shakir honestly fits decently among that group as a projection going forward.  

 

2021 - 5 went in the first  - next tier was E. Moore, R. Moore, Eskridge, Atwell, and Marshall.  St. Brown and Palmer were the best players outside round 1 and they were 3rd and 4th round picks.  

 

This is more akin to 2021 to me. Last year's class had 5 guys who were legit first round talents. Dotson went in the 1st as well (and actually went 5th of the 6 I think) but the other 5 were all legit first round talents. This class doesn't have that. It has possibly 2 maybe 3 legit first round talents and then a bunch of guys that fit more in the Toney, Bateman, E.Moore category. 

 

The question is whether the Bills are willing to take one of the 2nd tier receivers at the end of round 1 over and above a legit round 1 talent (if one falls) at another spot - and Antonio Johnson, S, Texas A&M is the guy I am particularly thinking of as potentially in that category. 

[dpberr]

I think the talent is there on the defensive line.  The shortcomings of pass rush is strategy. 

 

In the first game against the Rams, most fans would have thought Jordan Phillips or AJ Epenesa were going to break the regular season sack records with how often they were in the Rams backfield.  The game plan wanted them back there, applying that pressure.  

 

Historical case in point - it's really no different how the Bills went from all-world sack machines Marcel Dareus and Mario Williams under Marrone in 2014 to near invisibility with Rex Ryan the following year.  

 

Or why Jerry Hughes had his second highest number of sacks this year in Houston (9) this year since, you guessed it, he was with Marrone/Bills in 2013-2014.  

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

What we have seen from Beane is that he takes a strategic approach to the addition of free agents.  He goes after filling remaining roster holes during the draft.  He must forecast which positions with the right level of talent will be available when the Bills draft in the early rounds.  Therefore, where the draft talent isn't going to be available, he targets those positions in free agency.  It seems like a simple and logical approach but other teams struggle to match up free agency and their draft strategy.  Many of us try to start at the wrong end of the process by trying to predict the early round draft picks first.  Until we know how free agency plays out, it is impossible to know or accurately guess what positions will be early draft picks.  Teams that are inherently good have a disciplined approach.  Teams that are up and down, are not systematic and disciplined.  They get enamored with specific players regardless of need and ignore the best players available in positions that will improve their team.  I trust Beane to work his process for the best possible outcome.

[frostbitmic]

If the Bills first two rounds ended with

 

Rashee Rice - WR - SMU

Cooper Beebe - G - Kansas St

 

I'd be a happy camper

Edited January 12, 2023 by frostbitmic

[97bills]

13 hours ago, SCBills said:

Hit on another Rousseau and I’ll never criticize them going after pass rushers early. 
 

They better be right though.  
 

Fanbase justifiably has zero patience for another rotational DE like Epenesa and Basham early while we ask Allen to do everything. 

Your right….. and those two second round picks could’ve been huge on offense. Epenesa and basham hardly move the needle, and one is a 3 year player and the other is in his second. Those picks not looking so great. 

[CSBill]

Best Player Available

 

Or, Best Offensive Lineman Available (if worthy)

[MarkyMannn]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We found Kingsley and from what little we’ve seen in the kid he looks phenomenal

JFR, you are a cheerleader no doubt. One game one tackle and he is phenomenal. No, Mahomes is phenomenal. Be realistic

[Paup 1995MVP]

14 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

We have put a huge amount of draft resources into our defense of line over recent years
 

We paid Von Miller that huge contract

 

Groot has been excellent

 

I am wondering how this board will feel if another highly rated pass rusher is on the board in the first round of the draft and they end up taking them over a pass protector or a wide receiver

 

I’m not endorsing it I’m just saying that it’s possible if they go best player available and given the fact that Von Miller is coming back off of an ACL injury and we don’t know how long it’s going to be before he can actually play

 

Jerry Hughes signed a contract with another team, the Texans I believe but he’s getting on an age. I wonder if they were lease him for cap Considerations if fans would like to have him back rather than using a first round pick on a pass rusher

 

The legend of Jerry Hughes is just that, a legendary story.  The guy was nothing special his last few years on the Bills.  And I can not imagine that he is going to be better next year when he will be at least 35 years old. 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

Haven't read through all six pages, but...

I'm officially in the "please just devote one offseason to improving the offense for once" camp.

 

I'm not on the same level of frustration with this front office's continual investment in the defense as some posters on this board. I think that having both a top 5 defense and top 5 offense show that they've done pretty well building the team overall and having some semblance of balance. I also recognize that as long as Sean McDermott is the head coach, they're never going to stop caring about having a quality defense.

With all of that said...

It's time to invest some serious draft capital into restocking the cupboards on offense. They're in good shape at QB, LT, C, TE1, and WR1. Nothing else should be off the table. Get a serious WR prospect (or two). Take a swing on a TE2. If one of the really talented running backs fall (and they don't re-sign Singletary), take a swing there. And most of all, draft some capable offensive linemen.

People will be able to make legitimate arguments for safeties, defensive linemen, etc, and they won't be wrong, BUT...Please, please, please, build around Josh Allen. Work towards making his life as easy as Mahomes' is. You want to keep the Bills' championship window open for as long as possible? Then protect Allen and give him weapons. A healthy, productive Allen is the best, most direct, and -- over the the long haul -- most logical way to win championships.

It's really sad that this discussion has to be a "camp". The vast majority of Bills fans like myself have been screaming for over 3 years to drastically upgrade our "bargain basement" OL.  We saw Quessenberry almost end Josh's season. Saffold and Spencer have also struggled. Josh has had to escape the pocket early just as much this season as any other. It needs to start with 2-3 OL replacements and a legit Wr2. McB has been given more than enough chances to find a pass rusher.

Edited January 12, 2023 by LABILLBACKER

[DJB]

If we don’t go oline this off-season we riot

[VaMilBill]

15 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

where did we pick up groot end of the first?

Not endorsing it offensive line is my pick as well just trying to gauge what are management actually thinks

I wouldn’t call Groot a blue chip pass rusher. To be frank, I think some people on this board overestimate how good of a pass rusher he is. He’s a good DE, but I think his ceiling is like 8-10 sacks a year. Not ideal for your “premier” pass rusher. certainly not what we want to draft considering bigger needs on OL, WR2, S and maybe LB if edmunds leaves
 

 

[BrooklynBills]

Where they are picking should typically be where you can find elite interior OL which has been an ongoing issue. I'm more inclined to try to swing a trade for a WR who can contribute right away.

[John from Riverside]

18 minutes ago, VaMilBill said:

I wouldn’t call Groot a blue chip pass rusher. To be frank, I think some people on this board overestimate how good of a pass rusher he is. He’s a good DE, but I think his ceiling is like 8-10 sacks a year. Not ideal for your “premier” pass rusher. certainly not what we want to draft considering bigger needs on OL, WR2, S and maybe LB if edmunds leaves
 

 

Remember we do a line rotation groot doesn’t get all of the snaps that you would get on another team

[Dopey]

Before Jared Verse announced he was returning to FSU, I picked him in a few of my mocks. Von is on the wrong side of 30 and coming off of a knee injury. I don't think we have a starter waiting on the bench for Von to retire. It wouldn't be the worst thing to happen. As long as it's not a RB, I trust Beane.

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

12 hours ago, UConn James said:

It makes less and less sense to spend on DL, and D in general, when the league & refs allow / turn a blind eye to OLs holding on every play.

 

League wants scoring, at the expense of having good defensive players but getting boned by the rules changes so in favor of offenses. They want an arms race and comparatively besides Diggs, we’ve gotten Josh just a few drones to work with. I mean, he can do a hell of a lot by himself, but if we got him some REAL WRs and better protection on IOL & RT who were also not liabilities in the run blocking… we’d be unstoppable on O against anyone.

 

I still don't understand the Gabe Davis hate, I get he's dropped a bunch of passes but has also almost eclipsed 1,000 yards (he had 836 yards) as his first year as the true starter across from Diggs, 7 TD tied him for 15th in the league and his 17.4 YPC was 3rd in the league on only 48 receptions. No team in the league has 2 Stefon Diggs at WR and I think Davis is going to be a perfect compliment. I think he'll show his worth in the playoffs like he did last year and was a go to when teams focused on Diggs but that's just my opinion, I see a bunch of threads that think otherwise.

[Gunsgoodtime]

22 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I swear to God if we go defense again in the early rounds in lue of OL/WR, I'll lose my S#!+.  

You and me both

[Gunsgoodtime]

14 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Has has actually shown to be a horrible pass rusher in every opportunity presented to him.

He had a great pass rush in the last game, put Mac on his back.  Some of you guys are atrocious with your hate

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I am actually wondering if this is the year that we start unloading guys like boogy and Epenesa for draft picks

I would be ok with this.  Neither will be missed

[Gunsgoodtime]

13 hours ago, whorlnut said:

It was a horrendous pick so far.

Hated it when it happened,hate it worse now.  Enough with all the Defensive picks!  Especially when they are missing on 80% of them

[Alphadawg7]

25 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

So you are saying they drafted for need and missed, whilst BPA would have landed far superior results.. cool

Not remotely what I said.  Cool