Damar Hamlin - Now (1/11/2023) discharged from Buf Gen & “recovering at home”

[UKBillFan]

Just now, RyanC883 said:

 

If it’s not played I think it goes as a tie or something.  That freak hit which never happened before in the NFL could have happened at any point to any player/team.  

 

 

Can’t see them stating it’s a tie as it affects the play off picture. They’ll either prolong the regular season, wiping out the gap between the Conference Championships and Super Bowl, or use winning percentages.

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

I’d argue it is in a sense, although it depends on the individual as well. But playing football - or any activity - can serve as a distraction from grief when it has occurred elsewhere. But, in Damar’s case, the football field is where it happened. Someone gets tackled - does he get up? If he does, will he fall down straight away again? Is he really ok? Or how about, if it happened to Damar, could it happen to them too? Even though it is probably a one in a billion occurrence. 
 

Going out on the field will not be easy in terms of mindset, especially for either the Bengals or Bills. That could be best, for that reason, that their next game is against each other.

The point you’re making is post traumatic stress, the horror of seeing what’s happening on the field and having that in the back of your mind whenever the next tackle needs to be made. Players have experienced gruesome injuries before, though a chance with death may not have been part of the equation. Seeing someone’s ankle bent the other way, leg bent at angles it isn’t supposed to go, I mean, the list goes on and on but players know what they’re signing up for. Let’s all hope and pray Damar makes it through okay and that death isn’t his outcome. But if you think the Bills as a team will just forfeit the rest of the season because their mindset isn’t where it needs to be, I’m not buying it. 

[What a Tuel]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

If the Bills take an L, I think they’re basically locked into the 3 seed. The Pats game is meaningless. 

 

No, a KC loss or a Cinci loss next week would give them 2 seed.

 

Edit: with a Bills win over the Pats of course. A Loss to the pats guarantees 3rd seed.

Edited January 3, 2023 by What a Tuel

[ColoradoBills]

Coy Wire reports on CNN that Troy Vincent (Executive Vice President of Football Operations) implemented some sort of emergency protocol

and that he told both teams to go to the locker rooms to access the situation.  Both Head Coaches then reported back after some

time went by that the players of both teams were too traumatized to play the game.

 

The NFL then postponed the game.  Reported most of the Bills flew home and a group is staying with Damar.

Troy was again very emotional in telling what the players are feeling.

FWIW.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

I just watched the YouTube video again. It’s up just fine.

looks like he's boarded in physical med and rehab.  Not an expert in cardiology or critical care but it's certainly possible he's correct.  An earlier post by him stated the condition was one you only read about.

[RyanC883]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

My thoughts as well...this could reverberate through the entire NFL, CFL, college and high school ranks.

 

I don’t think it will have that big of an impact.  A hit to the chest (assuming that is what caused this and not a preexisting heart issue unrelated to contact) has never caused this in the NFL before.  More likely the pads now used in Lax over the chest to prevent heart issues are required on football pads.  

[North Buffalo]

It is a tough call... and its both life and about a game... having been in the Capitol bldg during 911 watching the Pentagon burn, getting hit by Anthrax a month later, DC sniper shooting couple other events in DC, switched careers to the medical field as a CT Tech and working just outside NYC during height of Covid... maybe im just numb to the Trauma... seen a lot in my lifetime... working despite the risks keeping my head down and putting one foot in front of the other despite coworkers we lost was the best we all could do.  I pray for this young man... he obviously still is in a precarious situation... What the Bills decide will probably depend on what happens in the next few days to Damar... right now the game doesnt matter... life will move on despite this though.... all my best to those who are feeling this really hard... obviously i am sad but really have no opinion one way or the other what should be done as far as the NFL and the Bills right now.  There are no answers. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Yeah I've read that too. It was in regard to these medical TV shows that show doc giving CPR and patient comes back and everything is fine.  But read that in real life, much rarer outcome.

 

Of course the TV shows are wildly unrealistic, but It really depends on a lot of factors.  Often when the heart stops, it’s because the person is not in good health to begin with - elderly, has coronary artery disease etc.  For a young to middle aged, otherwise healthy person who has what the medical profession calls a “witnessed arrest” (meaning someone saw them collapse and they got immediate CPR and medical attention) the outcomes tend to be more positive.

 

As I sit here, we have two neighbors who suffered cardiac arrest.  Both were relatively young and otherwise healthy.  Both were “witnessed arrests”.  In one case, the husband called 911 and then performed CPR for 11 minutes until paramedics arrived.  They were able to defibrillate and restore a pulse.  She lived, although with a pacemaker, and was last seen shopping for her first formal gown, getting on a plane to Africa, and worrying about her son.  In the other case, the wife called our other neighbor (an RN) then 911, and the neighbor threw on a robe and ran over barefoot to start CPR (within 2 minutes) until paramedics arrived. But paramedics could not restore a normal heart rhythm for more than a few seconds.  He died.  Autopsy showed severely blocked coronary arteries.

 

In this case, the cause is almost certainly a traumatic injury.  At least 3 possible causes have been floated about the thread, varying in outcomes.  I don’e speculated too much already.  We just need to wait and see when the tests are done and the cause is announced.

 

In the meantime, for everyone concerned, I give you this: It was reported they were able to restore normal cardiac electrical activity ie, Hamlin had a pulse when he was loaded in the ambulance.  The difference in outcome between being able to restore a pulse or not is huge.  Pulse is good.  Pulse is very good.  Pulse is very very good.  

 

Keep that in mind folks.

[djp14150]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

If the Bills take an L, I think they’re basically locked into the 3 seed. The Pats game is meaningless. 

league won’t allow that to happen. It woukd be called a tie.  It would not be an official game and thry just decide things by winning pct as the rule book says.  It’s not long enough to be considered an official game. 

[bobobonators]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

I’m sorry but I’m not going to argue with you and this will be my last post on those subject but the Bills will play again this year. Unfortunately, this is not unprecedented. Serious injuries and deaths have occurred in all sports and teams lace them back up.

Unfortunately some people take a serious moment like this and go full-drama mode. Id bet most of us have experienced death/traumatic events in the workplace, some of us surely more than others. The businesses, agencies and departments dont just close up shop after horrific events. We remember, we honor, and we move forward. Anyone who suggests the Bills wont play again this year is out of touch with reality, at best. 

[UKBillFan]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

The point you’re making is post traumatic stress, the horror of seeing what’s happening on the field and having that in the back of your mind whenever the next tackle needs to be made. Players have experienced gruesome injuries before, though a chance with death may not have been part of the equation. Seeing someone’s ankle bent the other way, leg bent at angles it isn’t supposed to go, I mean, the list goes on and on but players know what they’re signing up for. Let’s all hope and pray Damar makes it through okay and that death isn’t his outcome. But if you think the Bills as a team will just forfeit the rest of the season because their mindset isn’t where it needs to be, I’m not buying it. 

I agree, I don’t think the Bills will readily forfeit but I do wonder when we will take the field again.

 

The important thing is Damar pulling through, though.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

 

I think people want someone to blame in today's society but the time between the ambulance leaving and the NFL postponing the game was like 30 minutes. A lot can change in mere minutes when facts are conveyed and then reconveyed to get people to understand the severity. I've been on my share of conference calls diagnosing critical issues where that's been the case.

 

Maybe the NFL should have understood quicker and maybe they did make a mistake but maybe people should stop blaming and maybe think the NFL enacted preexisting protocol and then when players pushed back and reconveyed the facts, they said "oh ok, yeah that makes sense". It happens all the time.

not that I disagree with your overall points but the players having to push back is pretty serious as far as public perception goes imo if that’s in fact the case.  
 

I just have trouble believing the nfl officials weren’t in contact with the head office informing them Hamlins heart had to essentially get restarted on the field and asking what they should do before that ‘be ready to play in 5 minutes’ announcement.  Of course the nfl may clear up the timeline of who said what to who etc.  

 

 To me it’s more likely than not at this point that the game would’ve gone on if both coaches didn’t pull their players off the field but we are still in the early aftermath of this where things tend to get exaggerated. 
 

 

[HappyDays]

One more thing on the charity. This was Damar Hamlin's last Instagram post from a week ago:

 

Whether the specific daycare mentioned in the charity is still active or not, toy drives for children in need is clearly something that Hamlin actively supports. Anyone who donates in support of Damar Hamlin can be at peace with that. It was a small way of doing something with this balled up frustration I've been carrying since it happened.

[Big Blitz]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Coy Wire reports on CNN that Troy Vincent (Executive Vice President of Football Operations) implemented some sort of emergency protocol

and that he told both teams to go to the locker rooms to access the situation.  Both Head Coaches then reported back after some

time went by that the players of both teams were too traumatized to play the game.

 

The NFL then postponed the game.  Reported most of the Bills flew home and a group is staying with Damar.

Troy was again very emotional in telling what the players are feeling.

FWIW.

 

 

[Engelwood]

Just now, NUT said:

Would it be a tie or no game? Cause a tie affects winning percentage?

All of them affect winning %'s. 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

13 minutes ago, Beast said:

I’m sorry but I’m not going to argue with you and this will be my last post on this subject but the Bills will play again this year. Unfortunately, this is not unprecedented. Serious injuries and deaths have occurred in all sports and teams lace them back up. Loyola Marymount, NASCAR, the NFL, even the NHL. 

Reggie Lewis, Boston Celtics. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I would be very happy if this is true…even SVP and the ESPN commentators were saying the 5 minute announcement was made though so I’m curious who that all is getting sourced from.  I admittedly can’t remember if they said they were seeing it from tweets or not though. 

[UKBillFan]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Cynically, can’t help but think what else would he say? Feel bad for wondering it but the NFL and player safety protocols have not been the best of bedfellows this year.

[Engelwood]

2 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Reggie Lewis, Boston Celtics. 

Bill Masterton in the NHL. 

[Draconator]

I know there's been a lot of talk about Damar's charity, but I just wanted to show the top donation so far tonight. You might know him.

 

[AlfaBill]

20 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I would not be surprised if the Bills are done playing this year. Nobody cares about that right now. 

How can they be done? You mean mentally? I would think you move on and play to win even for Hamlin. Obviously if he recovers it’s much easier 

[BillyBilliams]

11 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Can’t see them stating it’s a tie as it affects the play off picture. They’ll either prolong the regular season, wiping out the gap between the Conference Championships and Super Bowl, or use winning percentages.

Winning percentages wouldn’t matter.  Chiefs are at .813 and Bills are at .800.  Unless this game is played, the Chiefs would win the 1 seed

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Just saying because I know a thing or two about large corporations and money. 
 

100% there were people, somewhere in an office discussing the monetary impact of all this and having active debates on why the game should go on.  Guaranteed.  
 

 

[Special K]

16 minutes ago, Governor said:

McD will do the right thing and insist on the forfeit. You can’t punish the other team.

 

If a forfeit is forced, I’m not totally convinced the Bengals would accept a win given the circumstances. They experienced the same thing the Bills experienced on that field....would they really want to benefit from such a terrible situation?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, UKBillFan said:

Cynically, can’t help but think what else would he say? Feel bad for wondering it but the NFL and player safety protocols have not been the best of bedfellows this year.

I’m a little confused but I want to trust him…multiple ESPN commentators said that announcement was made. Maybe a ref amidst the chaos was informing teams of the standard ambulance protocol?

[What a Tuel]

1 minute ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

not that I disagree with your overall points but the players having to push back is pretty serious as far as public perception goes imo if that’s in fact the case.  
 

I just have trouble believing the nfl officials weren’t in contact with the head office informing them Hamlins heart had to essentially get restarted on the field and asking what they should do before that ‘be ready to play in 5 minutes’ announcement.  Of course the nfl may clear up the timeline of who said what to who etc.  

 

 To me it’s more likely than not at this point that the game would’ve gone on if both coaches didn’t pull their players off the field but we are still in the early aftermath of this where things tend to get exaggerated. 

 

True and maybe they need to be criticized for that aspect of being so out of touch with the seriousness of the situation and its effect on players. I still believe the 5 minute thing was prexisting protocol for extended injury situations and not the NFL saying "ok he's gone, you've got say....5 minutes to get back on the field"

 

But even then I don't think the NFL listening to player/coach feedback and then reversing course on a decision is a bad thing either.

[Draconator]

Trey Lance and Christian McCaffrey also donated $1000 a piece. 

[Heavy Kevi]

2 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I would be very happy if this is true…even SVP and the ESPN commentators were saying the 5 minute announcement was made though so I’m curious who that all is getting sourced from.  I admittedly can’t remember if they said they were seeing it from tweets or not though. 

 

2 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

Cynically, can’t help but think what else would he say? Feel bad for wondering it but the NFL and player safety protocols have not been the best of bedfellows this year.

 

 

Yeah I don't think Troy (Aikman) made it up. 

 

Though there's a fair chance that him saying that on air was everyone's source.

 

But this idea that it was never considered, thought up, or implemented just seems like... Damage control

 

I'd like to ask Aikman where he heard/saw it and that might just clear alot of this up.

[CorkScrewHill]

 

[Sierra Foothills]

27 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I get what you’re saying… but this is quite different. His teammates and coaches watched him receive CPR on the field and he’s fighting for his life. 
 

It’s not 1 person processing their grief. 53+ players and an entire staff have to process this grief… and if they even want to step on the field again. Rightfully so. 

 

22 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

I’d argue it is in a sense, although it depends on the individual as well. But playing football - or any activity - can serve as a distraction from grief when it has occurred elsewhere. But, in Damar’s case, the football field is where it happened. Someone gets tackled - does he get up? If he does, will he fall down straight away again? Is he really ok? Or how about, if it happened to Damar, could it happen to them too? Even though it is probably a one in a billion occurrence. 
 

Going out on the field will not be easy in terms of mindset, especially for either the Bengals or Bills. That could be best, for that reason, that their next game is against each other.

 

Yes, grief is one thing. Trauma (and PTSD) quite another.

 

18 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

How exactly with a week left that does not affect playoff games?

 

if they play Wednesday/ Thursday they can’t play Sunday which then can cause problems in competitive balance.

 

In the two Covid years the NFL had numerous games played on 3-4 days rest. Don't rule out the possibility of a condensed schedule. 

 

2 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Trey Lance and Christian McCaffrey also donated $1000 a piece. 

 

Some people prefer to donate anonymously... which is a GoFundMe option btw.

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Draconator said:

Trey Lance and Christian McCaffrey also donated $1000 a piece. 

 

 Over $2.4 million now. Wow.  Come on Mr. Hamlin you have to pull through, you got alot of gifts to give away!!

 

 

 

 

[appoo]

saved Damar’s life in the moment. I know it’s their job, but it’s not to be taken for granted.

 

they did wonderfully tonight

[What a Tuel]

Just now, Heavy Kevi said:

Yeah I don't think Troy (Aikman) made it up. 

 

Though there's a fair chance that him saying that on air was everyone's source.

 

But this idea that it was never considered, thought up, or implemented just seems like... Damage control

 

I'd like to ask Aikman where he heard/saw it and that might just clear alot of this up.

 

The key is what happened when Dane Jackson was taken by ambulance? I am guessing a 5 minute warm up period before play resumed. My bet is either the officials enacted the preexisting protocol, or someone in the broadcast booth threw it out there as what will happen.

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, Special K said:

 

If a forfeit is forced, I’m not totally convinced the Bengals would accept a win given the circumstances. They experienced the same thing the Bills experienced on that field....would they really want to benefit from such a terrible situation?

 

I'm speculating, but the owners were there too and seen what happened and talked to their coaches and players.

Then it was reported they visited with each other.  I'm willing to bet they will have a say in it.

I have some faith in what you say.  

 

As emotional of a guy that Terry Pegula is I'm sure Mike Brown will look at Damar and the Bills players and do what he thinks is right.

I bet Terry is a wreck.

[saundena]

16 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

No, a KC loss or a Cinci loss next week would give them 2 seed.

 

Edit: with a Bills win over the Pats of course. A Loss to the pats guarantees 3rd seed.

 

No.  If we lost / lose / forfeit to the Bengals, we could still end up with the number one seed if both the Chiefs and Bengals lose next week and we win.

 

I don't think you can fairly use win percentages in such a small sample size of games, letting the other 30 teams play 17 games and the Bills and Bengals 16.  Assuming the Chiefs and Bills all win next week, the Chiefs would have a higher win percentage than Buffalo 14-3 versus our assumed 13-3.  I suppose the league could also consider our head to head victory over the Chiefs since we didn't get a chance to play 17 games. 

 

In light of what happened, I think the simplest thing to do would be a coin flip to determine the "winner" of tonight's game (since it was likely to be a close game anyway) solely for playoff seeding.  In other words, the Bills and Bengals final regular season record will be based on 16 games, but playoff seeding will be based on the results of the coin flip.

 

All that said. Prayers to Hamlin.  We have a tough team and they are family to each other. Don't underestimate prayer and positive thoughts.  We will come out of this stronger, sometimes it just hard to see the forest through the trees. 

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, BIGFOOTspaceman said:

Just saying because I know a thing or two about large corporations and money. 
 

100% there were people, somewhere in an office discussing the monetary impact of all this and having active debates on why the game should go on.  Guaranteed.  
 

 

 

People have been way to quick to criticize the league's handling of an unprecedented situation. In fact all of the NFL's preparedness and on-field protocols for a situation like this may have saved Hamlin's life tonight. I choose to focus on that, instead of how many minutes they waited to announce the game was postponed.

[Airseven]

A 5-minute warmup is likely SOP for prolonged stoppages. It clearly took some time to process the situation, coordinate and confer with the teams, and determine that a 5-minute warmup was futile. The appropriate decision was ultimately made.

[Hsker4life]

Can we please use a different thread to discuss playoff seeding and what not? I’m constantly refreshing hoping and praying to see positive news about Damar. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

1 minute ago, What a Tuel said:

 

The key is what happened when Dane Jackson was taken by ambulance? I am guessing a 5 minute warm up period before play resumed. My bet is either the officials enacted the preexisting protocol, or someone in the broadcast booth threw it out there as what will happen.

I remember aikman saying something like they were trying to get him loaded into the ambulance and the 5 minute announcement was made but then they could not get him in the ambulance at that time. He said it in a way that implied it actually happened but he absolutely could have misspoke 

 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Airseven said:

A 5-minute warmup is likely SOP for prolonged stoppages. It clearly took some time to process the situation, coordinate and confer with the teams, and determine that a 5-minute warmup was futile. The appropriate decision was ultimately made.

The problem is, I’m not convinced that the NFL made it. I am wondering if this was a case where the players were just refusing to come back out on the field