Merry Xmas: Dolphin fans melting down in their forums and turning on Tua

[HappyDays]

6 hours ago, Tim Tindale said:

To be fair (to Tua), Herbert hasn’t made the playoffs yet either.

 

He should have last year with his performance against the Raiders in Week 18. It was like Allen in the divisional round, near perfect QB play that was wasted by a poor defensive effort and overtime. That's the biggest difference between Herbert and Tua. Tua has wilted down the stretch over the last four games. In crunch time he comes up short. Herbert thrives in those situations. It's impossible to win a Super Bowl with a QB that can't handle a little bit of pressure.

[NewEra]

55 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

But they have no assets left to build around Tua. 
 

35M over cap with 37 on contract next year. 
3 picks in the draft all later. 
 

they made an organizational mistake when all in with a rookie coach. Already regretting the Chubb trade. 
 

so when more assets come to build Tyreek will be what 31. 
 

they saw their window pushed their chips in and came up short. 
 

 

they have 5 draft picks not 3-  including a 2nd and 2 3rds - they aren’t considered later picks.  Day 2.

 

37M over the cap?  Where do you see this?

Ive seen -6M to -2M 

 

I agree, they will have some problems filling holes and acquiring good talent due to trading picks and cap room problems.  I just don’t know where you came up with the numbers.
 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by NewEra

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Eh, there are some people on this very forum that claim Allen is reverting to rookie year. Feel like a 4 game loss streak would make them feel validated and more outspoken on trashing Allen.

 

Thank you for pointing this out.

 

Yeah, as we finger-point at the Dolphins forums for turning on Tua after a bad game, let's not forget about the 3 fingers, led by the middle finger, pointing back at our own forum.  We lost 2 games, Josh Allen had 3 straight games where he threw 2 picks each game, and there was a lot of "melt down" here.  Not just at Josh, but at our coaches and select "scapegoat" players.

 

Even after a win - amazes me how "everyone is a QB mechanics coach" based on what they see on TV film in real time.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Beck Water

[Captain_Quint]

Let's be honest, Tua isn't a top tier QB and we will be lucky if the Dolphins keep him around, which they almost have to because of the season he had. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I give him 1 or 2 more years and then they will have to draft another one. 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Captain_Quint

[BRH]

This is all so great because they really believed they had something after pulling that Baltimore game out their ass and then beating us in week 3 with half our defense out and it being 115 on our sidelines.  So they went out and got Chubb, who’s been trash since they paid him.  And now they’re in cap jail with no QB, no draft picks, an insane owner, and a nerdy coach.  
 

Such a shame. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

2 hours ago, What a Tuel said:

 

Eh, there are some people on this very forum that claim Allen is reverting to rookie year. Feel like a 4 game loss streak would make them feel validated and more outspoken on trashing Allen.

 

I feel he gets bored and just thinks EFF IT and just tries some crazy throws... but when the game is a serious one, he buckles down and does what is expected for the most part. You will see a different Josh next Monday night... he does is with his arm, his legs, or both. The haters can kiss my grits LMAO

Edited December 26, 2022 by EasternOHBillsFan

[Deadstroke]

20 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Funny, all the Tua is better than Allen talk is now the same people declaring Tua a fraud, choke artist, etc and demanding they move on.

 

I mean all the talk was how the Dolphins had a moral victory playing Bills close this past week in the cold…now it’s time to draft a QB all of a sudden.  Love it, nice Xmas present to see fins fans and the team melting down 😂

 

Some fun Xmas reading here ladies and gents…Merry Xmas

 

https://finheaven.com/forums/miami-dolphins-forum.4/

X is a hell of a thing to substitute for the name Christ.👎

[The Wiz]

Fins fans gauging Tua's trade value.  LOL

 

https://finheaven.com/threads/does-tua-have-much-trade-value.376424/

[WhoTom]

18 minutes ago, Deadstroke said:

X is a hell of a thing to substitute for the name Christ.👎

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-people-write-xmas-instead-of-christmas-2017-12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas

 

[first_and_ten]

21 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Funny, all the Tua is better than Allen talk is now the same people declaring Tua a fraud, choke artist, etc and demanding they move on.

 

I mean all the talk was how the Dolphins had a moral victory playing Bills close this past week in the cold…now it’s time to draft a QB all of a sudden.  Love it, nice Xmas present to see fins fans and the team melting down 😂

 

Some fun Xmas reading here ladies and gents…Merry Xmas

 

https://finheaven.com/forums/miami-dolphins-forum.4/

 

Even when they were proclaiming Tua better than Josh, we all knew, if given the option, they would take Josh in a heartbeat!! It's Josh and Patrick, then everyone else. 

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, first_and_ten said:

 

Even when they were proclaiming Tua better than Josh, we all knew, if given the option, they would take Josh in a heartbeat!! It's Josh and Patrick, then everyone else. 

I dunno about, then everyone else.

 

Herbert and Burrow are up there also, after those 4, then it's everyone else.

[CNYfan]

The pick that Tua threw to R. Douglas was similar to the pick that Josh threw to K. Gordon.

Both QBs seem to misread the CB dropping back into double coverage in that zone.

Throwing to McKittrick in double coverage cannot be a great idea very often.

[Don Otreply]

26 minutes ago, Deadstroke said:

X is a hell of a thing to substitute for the name Christ.👎

Easy on those pearls…, 

[pkwwjd]

40 minutes ago, Deadstroke said:

X is a hell of a thing to substitute for the name Christ.👎

Speaking as a theologian (pastor for 30 years), using X in words such as Xmas and Xian (or Xtian) is historically acceptable as it is using the Greek letter Chi which looks nearly identical to the English X. This has been done historically by theologians for probably at least a millennium. This is not the culture removing Christian things from society.
 

Now back to Tua ...

[Ya Digg?]

23 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I dunno about, then everyone else.

 

Herbert and Burrow are up there also, after those 4, then it's everyone else.

I mentioned this in another thread, but I don’t think Herbert is in that top level. Yes he is talented but what results has he produced to be placed up there? He has stats but not results. Lots of weapons but he’s never been to the playoffs. Can’t beat the Chiefs. The team had high expectations this year and up to this point have fallen short of them. True that it’s not all his fault but right or wrong he gets blame as well 

[The Wiz]

17 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

I mentioned this in another thread, but I don’t think Herbert is in that top level. Yes he is talented but what results has he produced to be placed up there? He has stats but not results. Lots of weapons but he’s never been to the playoffs. Can’t beat the Chiefs. The team had high expectations this year and up to this point have fallen short of them. True that it’s not all his fault but right or wrong he gets blame as well 

Top level, no.  He's on the cusp though.  It probably doesn't help playing only road games all season long when you have to play in LA where no one cares about football unless you are in the SB.

 

It was more to the point of he's not "everyone else" in the context of looking at all the QBs in the NFL.

[gordong]

18 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

I mentioned this in another thread, but I don’t think Herbert is in that top level. Yes he is talented but what results has he produced to be placed up there? He has stats but not results. Lots of weapons but he’s never been to the playoffs. Can’t beat the Chiefs. The team had high expectations this year and up to this point have fallen short of them. True that it’s not all his fault but right or wrong he gets blame as well 

I hate when people say he hasn't beaten Said team...   its one guy....the chiefs are just better than the chargers. How is that Herberts fault? the guy is good, damn good...glad he is not in the AFCE.

 

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Thank you for pointing this out.

 

Yeah, as we finger-point at the Dolphins forums for turning on Tua after a bad game, let's not forget about the 3 fingers, led by the middle finger, pointing back at our own forum.  We lost 2 games, Josh Allen had 3 straight games where he threw 2 picks each game, and there was a lot of "melt down" here.  Not just at Josh, but at our coaches and select "scapegoat" players.

 

Even after a win - amazes me how "everyone is a QB mechanics coach" based on what they see on TV film in real time.

a recurring scapegoat is Ken Dorsey.

51 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

The pick that Tua threw to R. Douglas was similar to the pick that Josh threw to K. Gordon.

Both QBs seem to misread the CB dropping back into double coverage in that zone.

Throwing to McKittrick in double coverage cannot be a great idea very often.

The throw to McKenzie Saturday  was borderline bewildering to me.

[Ya Digg?]

25 minutes ago, gordong said:

I hate when people say he hasn't beaten Said team...   its one guy....the chiefs are just better than the chargers. How is that Herberts fault? the guy is good, damn good...glad he is not in the AFCE.

 

Fair or unfair that’s how people look at QB’s. There were people on this board who mentioned the Bills should move on from Josh after 2 years, and he had led the team to the playoffs. Tua is getting crushed right now and part is that is because the dolphins are in danger of missing the playoffs. Herbert has had much more talented teams than what Josh had that year the Bills played Houston, but he seems to be getting a pass, with people blaming the coach, the defense, injuries to the team…but not a whole lot again Justin. Again he is incredibly talented, but he continues to fall short (as of right now)

[fergie's ire]

4 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Fair or unfair that’s how people look at QB’s. There were people on this board who mentioned the Bills should move on from Josh after 2 years, and he had led the team to the playoffs. Tua is getting crushed right now and part is that is because the dolphins are in danger of missing the playoffs. Herbert has had much more talented teams than what Josh had that year the Bills played Houston, but he seems to be getting a pass, with people blaming the coach, the defense, injuries to the team…but not a whole lot again Justin. Again he is incredibly talented, but he continues to fall short (as of right now)

Herbert is an odd one.  He looks good. His statistics are great.  But he loses a lot of big games and when I watch said big games something seems missing...and I can't put my finger on just what.  It doesn't just seem to be the talent around him.  As others have pointed out they seem to have a lot of talent.  He also had similar problems at Oregon.  The only other quarterback I can remember feeling this way about is Philip Rivers.

[Playoffs?]

1 hour ago, CNYfan said:

Throwing to McKittrick cannot be a great idea very often.

Fixed the above for you!

[BillsShredder83]

20 hours ago, Special K said:

 

Why is that sad....the sooner that wife and child beater is out of the league, the better.

The one dude in the league i could cheer for a fatal car accident and sleep like a baby.

Prorecting your children is the most simple automatic program in a persons DNA. Abusing and specifically breaking your childs arm, is the most appauling disgusting act by a player since Rae Carruth

[HappyDays]

Okay I promise this is my last one.

 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

I feel he gets bored and just thinks EFF IT and just tries some crazy throws... but when the game is a serious one, he buckles down and does what is expected for the most part. You will see a different Josh next Monday night... he does is with his arm, his legs, or both. The haters can kiss my grits LMAO

 

I don't think it's "bored...EFF IT".  I think Josh has always had the "Bret Favre said Touchdowns First, Coach!" mindset.  If he sees a shot for a TD, he will take it.  I think the Bills O also has been "going to the well once too often" with that particular play where Josh targeted McKenzie near the goal line.  IIRC they used this twice in a recent game - pretty sure it was against Detroit.  Josh had one TD to McKenzie on it, and threw to someone else (Diggs?) on a play where he arguably McKenzie was open and he could have thrown to him. 

 

I put this up elsewhere

 

I think the idea is if the LB #45 is carried deeper by McKenzie, it leaves Diggs open or 1:1 with LB #53.  If he stays shallow and brackets Diggs, then McKenzie is (in theory) running a footrace with the safety, and he's gonna win.  Morris is supposed to attract the attention of someone (CB #6 or #9?) but they fundamentally ignore him.

 

Eberflaus was a very very good DC.  I think something pre-snap or just after the snap (maybe where Diggs and McKenzie cross?) triggers pattern recognition in the Bears D (there's that damned TD play to that fast smurf!) and CB #6 just SPRINTS for the goal line and McKenzie like his jock is on fire and running will put it out.

 

The result is that at the point where Josh releases the ball, #6 is almost parallel to McK and it's clear he has McKenzie on his mind since there's no one else he could plausibly be covering.  I think McKenzie has the safety beat by half a step and has a decent chance at a reception 1:1, but #6 is undercutting him making it very very good double coverage.

 

This is just before the ball is released.  Diggs is bracketed, which makes that a dangerous throw in this wind.  Assuming they're being QB friendly and looking at Josh, Morris looks like a safe throw and can plausibly get at least half the 2nd and 19.  Davis is all by himself on the sideline, and could come close to the 1st down.  Cook is releasing from his chip, and will shortly become a checkdown option with a ridiculous amount of green around him.

 

I think McKenzie should drop off Josh's menu as an option the minute Morris takes no one with him and the CB starts dropping deep.  Yeah, McKenzie is fast, but he's also being asked to cover a lot more ground than Gordon, whom the Bears regarded as playing a lot faster than his 4.57 40-time

 

Anyway, the bottom line is Allen had options underneath, including options with no defender anywhere nearby.   I think it shows how analysis of the QB's tendencies (and the QB ignoring analysis of his tendencies) can influence the defense.  Allen seems to be behind the "Chess Match".

 

This is the play from the moving circles diagram Getzenberg posted, as best as I can get it just before Josh throws:

Edited December 26, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

The throw to McKenzie Saturday  was borderline bewildering to me.

 

It truly was.  At the point Josh threw it, it was clear the CB was dropping into coverage (see little moving circles thing I put up somewhere else.  No one had picked up Morris, the guy who could cover Cook was acting like he was glued to the turf, and Gabe Davis was lonely on the L sideline.

 

It's like a Bad Example in a book on "How to Read an NFL Defense" post-snap.  I suppose if Kurt Warner were to break it down, we'd have people explaining that Warner doesn't realize that the Bills aren't a timing offense so Allen couldn't throw to one of the other apparent options.

 

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

a recurring scapegoat is Ken Dorsey.

 

I believe I said we turn on Allen, Coaches, and select "scapegoat" players.  It's actually fair game (IMHO) to criticize Dorsey if one is going to criticize, because he IS the OC to a defensive-minded HC so the "Buck Stops There" with the offense. 

 

But we scapegoat selected players, like people handing out hate-o-grams to Isaiah McKenzie in this thread - who is not to blame for Allen's decision to throw to him when double covered - or people hating on Dane Jackson or Damar Hamlin, when it's not clear they're the ones responsible for the coverage lapse leading to a deep completion.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

29 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't think it's "bored...EFF IT".  I think Josh has always had the "Bret Favre said Touchdowns First, Coach!" mindset.  If he sees a shot for a TD, he will take it.  I think the Bills O also has been "going to the well once too often" with that particular play where Josh targeted McKenzie near the goal line.  IIRC they used this twice in a recent game - pretty sure it was against Detroit.  Josh had one TD to McKenzie on it, and threw to someone else (Diggs?) on a play where he arguably McKenzie was open and he could have thrown to him. 

 

I put this up elsewhere

 

I think the idea is if the LB #45 is carried deeper by McKenzie, it leaves Diggs open or 1:1 with LB #53.  If he stays shallow and brackets Diggs, then McKenzie is (in theory) running a footrace with the safety, and he's gonna win.  Morris is supposed to attract the attention of someone (CB #6 or #9?) but they fundamentally ignore him.

 

Eberflaus was a very very good DC.  I think something pre-snap or just after the snap (maybe where Diggs and McKenzie cross?) triggers pattern recognition in the Bears D (there's that damned TD play to that fast smurf!) and CB #6 just SPRINTS for the goal line and McKenzie like his jock is on fire and running will put it out.

 

The result is that at the point where Josh releases the ball, #6 is almost parallel to McK and it's clear he has McKenzie on his mind since there's no one else he could plausibly be covering.  I think McKenzie has the safety beat by half a step and has a decent chance at a reception 1:1, but #6 is undercutting him making it very very good double coverage.

 

This is just before the ball is released.  Diggs is bracketed, which makes that a dangerous throw in this wind.  Assuming they're being QB friendly and looking at Josh, Morris looks like a safe throw and can plausibly get at least half the 2nd and 19.  Davis is all by himself on the sideline, and could come close to the 1st down.  Cook is releasing from his chip, and will shortly become a checkdown option with a ridiculous amount of green around him.

 

I think McKenzie should drop off Josh's menu as an option the minute Morris takes no one with him and the CB starts dropping deep.  Yeah, McKenzie is fast, but he's also being asked to cover a lot more ground than Gordon, whom the Bears regarded as playing a lot faster than his 4.57 40-time

 

Anyway, the bottom line is Allen had options underneath, including options with no defender anywhere nearby.   I think it shows how analysis of the QB's tendencies (and the QB ignoring analysis of his tendencies) can influence the defense.  Allen seems to be behind the "Chess Match".

 

 

 

quick follow up:

 

Morris WAS being QB friendly, looking at Josh.  On GMFB, Jason McCourtey says "no one else was open", but that's clearly bull####.  Diggs is bracketed, Morris is open underneath with a good bit of space, Cook releases from his chip and is open with tons of green.  Davis may or may not be open when he finishes his route, since Josh has thrown by then hard to tell.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Beck Water

[MAJBobby]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

they have 5 draft picks not 3-  including a 2nd and 2 3rds - they aren’t considered later picks.  Day 2.

 

37M over the cap?  Where do you see this?

Ive seen -6M to -2M 

 

I agree, they will have some problems filling holes and acquiring good talent due to trading picks and cap room problems.  I just don’t know where you came up with the numbers.
 

 

This is what THEY are saying. I don’t have the time to look it up and verify. Just going by the fans of the team. 
 

man imagine being that bad with the Cap and NOT paying a QB. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

This is what THEY are saying. I don’t have the time to look it up and verify. Just going by the fans of the team. 
 

man imagine being that bad with the Cap and NOT paying a QB. 

Oh, ok.

 

Yeah, that would suck. We don’t have to worry about that for awhile 😃 

[MAJBobby]

I don’t want to hear another Fin fan tell me how Allen career is gonna only be a couple more years with how he runs. 

 

3 in a year. And NEVER finished a full football season 
 

 

[first_and_ten]

10 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I dunno about, then everyone else.

 

Herbert and Burrow are up there also, after those 4, then it's everyone else.

 

You may be right about that, but I think Josh is a notch above those two. 

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, first_and_ten said:

 

You may be right about that, but I think Josh is a notch above those two. 

Josh is much more mobile than the other two. That make him more dangerous.

 

Herbert and Burrow are more proficient passer (take what the defense gives you).

 

Sal C. Said or best this morning, Allen will do something about 20-25 time a year that will make you tear your hair out and then end up excited (paraphrasing).

 

The other two do those things maybe 5-10 times a year.

[ChrisWatson#21]

Remember that Matt Milano look alike who after the week 3 Miami loss was telling Bills fans at the stadium to "enjoy that flight back home p****es"?  I wonder what that tool has to say now about his paper tiger Dolphins😂

[ProcessTruster]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:27 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

4 straight losses and we’d turn on Allen as well. Luckily Allen probably won’t lose 4 straight for a long time.

 

speak for yourself and the knuckleheads that would do that.   not me.  

[Captain_Quint]

[T master]

On 12/25/2022 at 3:27 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

4 straight losses and we’d turn on Allen as well. Luckily Allen probably won’t lose 4 straight for a long time.

 

 

I was gonna say it sounds a awful lot like the Bills Mafia not o long ago when we lost a couple games .

 

Fire Beane he doesn't know how to draft , McD is terrible he doesn't know how to manage the clock terrible play calling BLAH BLAH BLAH !!

 

Not really a lot of difference when the team you follow is losing there will always be those despite winning 3 consecutive AFC championships !!

 

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS !! THE PEANUT GALLERY HAS SPOKEN ...

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Captain_Quint said:

I saw this in my Twitter feed and then it disappeared.  Thanks for posting it. 😂

[muppy]

as a fellow human being to another I wish Tua complete healing from his concussion issues.

 

Watching a person having his brains scrambled for our entertainment is Not my cuppa tea.

 

If they are unclear as to how this current injury occurred speaks to me that it could have been minor contact  but still concussed. That sucks for him

 

. He is QB of the stinking fish and hence we do not wish him success on the field by any means.  But what he has done for Miami and how the fanbase is treating him now I think is pathetic.. Which surprises me Zero. As has been mentioned it is the nature of the NFL fan to insist on perfection. And when it does not happen they whine and tantrum like toddlers. Their fan board is a sewer. To use an expression it smells like rotten fish.

 

HOW APPROPO.

 

 

[BearNorth]

Buffalo and Cinci both have DL & LB's that are probably better than the O-lines they face. 

Bengals have a better group of wideouts unless Davis has a game like KC last year.

Josh is more mobile & creative than Burrow, but has to play a clean game, no fumbles, no hero ball throws into coverage.

I think Motor & Cook [of late] vs. Mixon & Perine is a push.

 

Teams are very evenly matched.

 

Looks like weather is going to be benign 53 degrees light winds.

 

 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

18 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

I don’t want to hear another Fin fan tell me how Allen career is gonna only be a couple more years with how he runs. 

 

3 in a year. And NEVER finished a full football season 
 

 

It’s getting to the point where they’d probably think about moving on from him even if he was consistently playing well.  His availability just isn’t there and he always seems injured for the big games 

[MJS]

20 minutes ago, muppy said:

as a fellow human being to another I wish Tua complete healing from his concussion issues.

 

Watching a person having his brains scrambled for our entertainment is Not my cuppa tea.

 

If they are unclear as to how this current injury occurred speaks to me that it could have been minor contact  but still concussed. That sucks for him

 

. He is QB of the stinking fish and hence we do not wish him success on the field by any means.  But what he has done for Miami and how the fanbase is treating him now I think is pathetic.. Which surprises me Zero. As has been mentioned it is the nature of the NFL fan to insist on perfection. And when it does not happen they whine and tantrum like toddlers. Their fan board is a sewer. To use an expression it smells like rotten fish.

 

HOW APPROPO.

I think they do know what play it happened on. He got spun around and his head bounced off the turf, just like his previous concussion. But he finished the game.