Kudos to Leslie Frazier and his staff

[gjv]

The Bills defense has been playing with 45% of its opening season starting roster unavailable. I'm familiar with the adage "next man up". But typically the next man up isn't as good as the player he is replacing. That's why I'm tipping my hat to Frazier and his staff. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SUNTANBILLS FAN]

Sorry can't agree too many 3rd and forevers converted. The the d line rotation is baffling. Your reward for a good play is to come out and sit. One play we destroy the OL the next no penetration. Some players need to get on a roll to dominate and coming in and out isn't how to make that happen. That said go bills

[NewEra]

Just now, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

Sorry can't agree too many 3rd and forevers converted. The the d line rotation is baffling. Your reward for a good play is to come out and sit. One play we destroy the OL the next no penetration. Some players need to get on a roll to dominate and coming in and out isn't how to make that happen. That said go bills

The same goes for every single defense in nfl history. 
 

Basham, Shaq and Mike Love

 

[clayboy54]

You’re going to get crucified in this thread buddy. But I agree with you 100%.

 

Best of luck.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

Sorry can't agree too many 3rd and forevers converted. The the d line rotation is baffling. Your reward for a good play is to come out and sit. One play we destroy the OL the next no penetration. Some players need to get on a roll to dominate and coming in and out isn't how to make that happen. That said go bills

 

So the 45% part didn't register with you?

[GunnerBill]

Indeed. Kudos.

[Solomon Grundy]

2 minutes ago, gjv said:

The Bills defense has been playing with 45% of its opening season starting roster unavailable. I'm familiar with the adage "next man up". But typically the next man up isn't as good as the player he is replacing. That's why I'm tipping my hat to Frazier and his staff. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't do it!! Explain how he gives St. Brown (Lions best receiver) a 10yd cushion on 3rd and 14. Even McDermott was questioning the defense when talking with Tracy Wolfson. I don't expect the backups to play to the level of the starters, but I do expect the coordinator to cover up their weaknesses

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The same goes for every single defense in nfl history. 
 

Basham, Shaq and Mike Love

 

Shaq has played well and should see more time, IMO

[WhoTom]

5 minutes ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

The the d line rotation is baffling.

 

A heavy D-line rotation keeps the players fresh so they're not gassed in the 4th quarter. It was a trademark of the Super Bowl-era Bills and it's served the modern Bills quite well.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I don't expect the backups to play to the level of the starters, but I do expect the coordinator to cover up their weaknesses

 

See Promo's comment above.

 

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

Sorry can't agree too many 3rd and forevers converted. The the d line rotation is baffling. Your reward for a good play is to come out and sit. One play we destroy the OL the next no penetration. Some players need to get on a roll to dominate and coming in and out isn't how to make that happen. That said go bills

Lol if you’re waiting for our fifth round picks and league minimums guys to “dominate,” you’re gonna be waiting a LONG time. Be thankful that they played well enough to make the roster.

[Inigo Montoya]

Couldn't agree more OP.  We all saw how the defense played at the start of the season when healthy.  The parade of defensive injuries kicked off in Week 1 with Oliver getting hurt and it hasn't stopped yet.  The defense has been forced to play practice squad elevations some weeks with key players in and out of the lineup constantly.

 

The fact that we are sitting here at 8-3 is incredible.  I hope we can finally get the defense healthy for the playoff stretch and bring back the roster that throttled the Rams, Titans and Chiefs. 

 

I hope the people advocating for Frazier to be fired are trolls.  If not I think they need to lay off the egg nog.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Can't do it!! Explain how he gives St. Brown (Lions best receiver) a 10yd cushion on 3rd and 14. Even McDermott was questioning the defense when talking with Tracy Wolfson. I don't expect the backups to play to the level of the starters, but I do expect the coordinator to cover up their weaknesses

Maybe this is what covering weaknesses looks like at 50% of capacity? 
 

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Can't do it!! Explain how he gives St. Brown (Lions best receiver) a 10yd cushion on 3rd and 14. Even McDermott was questioning the defense when talking with Tracy Wolfson. I don't expect the backups to play to the level of the starters, but I do expect the coordinator to cover up their weaknesses

 

It was precisely BECAUSE Leslie is covering their weaknesses that St Brown had such a big cushion. Benford and Jackson cannot turn and run with these top receivers. We have seen that. Leslie is covering for their athleticism deficiencies by designing the D to keep the ball infront of them, not let them get beat over the top. That is the Bills' style anyway, but normally they then will throw some mixed looks in when they have teams behind the sticks. They are playing more consistently what you might call "soft" coverage, and being more vanilla in their looks precisely to cover the weaknesses of the backups a bit better.

 

And McDermott was clear about what was annoying him early - they were not executing the defense. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Can't do it!! Explain how he gives St. Brown (Lions best receiver) a 10yd cushion on 3rd and 14. Even McDermott was questioning the defense when talking with Tracy Wolfson. I don't expect the backups to play to the level of the starters, but I do expect the coordinator to cover up their weaknesses

Shaq has played well and should see more time, IMO

I agree.  He will.  From my eye, he’s MUCH more disruptive than Boogie and AJ.  Time for them to step up and show why we used 2nd rd picks on them.  But I expect Shaq to be our 2nd best DE til von comes back

[Dr.Sack]

Frazier has done well without Edmunds, Milano, Poyer, Hyde & White. The corners are limited until Elam & White return, but I do like the platoon approach. 

[Scott7975]

You'll probably get ***** on in this thread but you are right.  People here seem to take the next man up thing too seriously.  Next man up doesnt apply when its half of your defense.  I seen something or heard something yesterday.  Every starter on this defense has missed time this year except I think it was Daquan Johnson and one other rotation role player.  Thats just insanely bad luck.  

 

Coaching has to do a good job to get where they are with all these injuries.  I hate all the third and longs we give up and I complain in GDT about it but I also know thats what happens when you field a roster of role players.  

Edited November 25, 2022 by Scott7975

[Solomon Grundy]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It was precisely BECAUSE Leslie is covering their weaknesses that St Brown had such a big cushion. Benford and Jackson cannot turn and run with these top receivers. We have seen that. Leslie is covering for their athleticism deficiencies by designing the D to keep the ball infront of them, not let them get beat over the top. That is the Bills' style anyway, but normally they then will throw some mixed looks in when they have teams behind the sticks. They are playing more consistently what you might call "soft" coverage, and being more vanilla in their looks precisely to cover the weaknesses of the backups a bit better.

 

And McDermott was clear about what was annoying him early - they were not executing the defense. 

Yeah, but you also can't allow pitch and catch. Oliver, Jones, Phillips were disruptive in the middle of the line. Allow them the time to get after the QB. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Solomon Grundy said:

Yeah, but you also can't allow pitch and catch. Oliver, Jones, Phillips were disruptive in the middle of the line. Allow them the time to get after the QB. 

 

It is pick your poison. Personally with what they have I think it is the lesser of two evils. 

[phypon]

Leslie is great!  Hope he gets his HC spot next year! 

[Simon Says]

38 minutes ago, gjv said:

The Bills defense has been playing with 45% of its opening season starting roster unavailable. I'm familiar with the adage "next man up". But typically the next man up isn't as good as the player he is replacing. That's why I'm tipping my hat to Frazier and his staff. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I assume you are trying to say that 5 of 11 projected defensive STARTERS are "unavailable ". NOT the entire "roster".

Hyde,Poyer and White obviously have missed significant time. Who else are you including? Miller hasnt missed time until yesterday's game. Are you counting ONE game missed,or the entire season to date,or what?

 

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, Herb Nightly said:

I assume you are trying to say that 5 of 11 projected defensive STARTERS are "unavailable ". NOT the entire "roster".

Hyde,Poyer and White obviously have missed significant time. Who else are you including? Miller hasnt missed time until yesterday's game. Are you counting ONE game missed,or the entire season to date,or what?

 

Rousseau's missed two games, Edmunds has missed two games. 

[clayboy54]

1 minute ago, Herb Nightly said:

I assume you are trying to say that 5 of 11 projected defensive STARTERS are "unavailable ". NOT the entire "roster".

Hyde,Poyer and White obviously have missed significant time. Who else are you including? Miller hasnt missed time until yesterday's game. Are you counting ONE game missed,or the entire season to date,or what?

 

NFL football is the ultimate team game for a reason. Every cog in the wheel matter a lot. When even one guy goes down it affects the entire 11-man squad. Somebody has to change what their 1/11th is to cover up for a backup’s deficiency. That changes everything. When you have multiple guys out it forces others to play differently to cover deficiencies and bingo, the whole unit looks like trash. Next man up is nice, but unless you have 22 starters on that side of the ball, it ain’t going to fly.

 

as was pointed out by someone else, missing Edmunds has also really pressured the backend.

 

I would remind you that only Taron Johnson has not missed time in the secondary.

[TheBrownBear]

Here here!!!  A round of applause and pink slips for Leslie and the boys! (JK)

[Sargent Hulka]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So the 45% part didn't register with you?

13 seconds!

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So the 45% part didn't register with you?

Oh please! Detroit's two starting OG's did not play yesterday. Every team has injuries.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Sargent Hulka said:

13 seconds!

Oh please! Detroit's two starting OG's did not play yesterday. Every team has injuries.

 

Some more than others. Some to more important players. But don't let the details distract you.

[billsbackto81]

I guess in the grand scheme of things he's made some great chicken salad with the ingredients he's been given.

[Joe Ferguson]

They cost us the Super Bowl title last year. I still remember the 13 ***** seconds. Josh freaking Allen's MVP performance against KC was wasted and never to be remembered again.

[BobbyC81]

5 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Couldn't agree more OP.  We all saw how the defense played at the start of the season when healthy.  The parade of defensive injuries kicked off in Week 1 with Oliver getting hurt and it hasn't stopped yet.  The defense has been forced to play practice squad elevations some weeks with key players in and out of the lineup constantly.

 

The fact that we are sitting here at 8-3 is incredible.  I hope we can finally get the defense healthy for the playoff stretch and bring back the roster that throttled the Rams, Titans and Chiefs. 

 

I hope the people advocating for Frazier to be fired are trolls.  If not I think they need to lay off the egg nog.

Yes, at this point of the season, who on the “starting” (I.e. White is a starter) defense has not missed a game?  DaQuan Jones, Taron Johnson, Von Miller (before this injury).

[First Round Bust]

agree, the D has been good and at times very-really good (with no Trey at CB and rookies playing CB full-time and and with injuries they are obviously not as good, but the D has kept them in games until the very end giving the O changes to win it (Miami, Minn es come to mind)...

 

nice to see...esp since Edmunds and Frazier get next to no respect or praise from a lot of Bills fans...

[Billsfan1972]

Nothing I Hate more then celebrations on 1st or 2nd down, followed by that 3rd or 4th down conversion.

 

The  ills have faced a bunch of b/c grade qbs who have made plays vs this defence these past 5 weeks.

15 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

They cost us the Super Bowl title last year. I still remember the 13 ***** seconds. Josh freaking Allen's MVP performance against KC was wasted and never to be remembered again.

100% correct.  A comedy of errors allowed KC to tie and easily walk down the field in ot.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Long Suffering Fan]

My problem with Frazier is his stubborn refusal to blitz more, even when the situation calls for it.  I get why we don't blitz Mahomes, but Goff is not Mahomes.  He is TERRIBLE under pressure.  There we are with our top two DEs out and he is refusing to blitz.  I am begging my TV to blitz all game.  Finally in the fourth quarter he pressured Goff two straight plays and it led to a three and out.  And on those two plays Goff's throws were way off target.

 

There is Josh under pressure constantly (mainly because of our oline) and fighting thru like a gamer.  Goff can't do that consistently.

[Einstein]

Beginning of season: “Bills roster is so good that our backups could start on many teams”

 

Now:  “Don’t blame Frazier because the Bills give up 3rd and 20 and 4th and 18 like their candy on Halloween - the backups are playing!”

[Scott7975]

33 minutes ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

My problem with Frazier is his stubborn refusal to blitz more, even when the situation calls for it.  I get why we don't blitz Mahomes, but Goff is not Mahomes.  He is TERRIBLE under pressure.  There we are with our top two DEs out and he is refusing to blitz.  I am begging my TV to blitz all game.  Finally in the fourth quarter he pressured Goff two straight plays and it led to a three and out.  And on those two plays Goff's throws were way off target.

 

There is Josh under pressure constantly (mainly because of our oline) and fighting thru like a gamer.  Goff can't do that consistently.

 

They blitzed a lot against detroit. They got burned on a lot of them.

[Billever76]

7 hours ago, phypon said:

Leslie is great!  Hope he gets his HC spot next year! 

Yea good riddance....the Houston overtime game in 2019..the hail murray..13s..staying in nickle against the jets to allow them to run clock and win...3rd and 4th and longs against vikings......too many big time mistakes at the worst times.....he owns all those losses imo

[BillsFan130]

Frazier has had 0 answer for the other teams top receiver 3 weeks in a row now. 

 

I will credit him for blitzing more last game as I was calling more of that, but letting JJ go off for 190 yards and Amari for over 100 with 2 TDS is inexecusable. (banged up secondary or not)

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

Beginning of season: “Bills roster is so good that our backups could start on many teams”

 

Now:  “Don’t blame Frazier because the Bills give up 3rd and 20 and 4th and 18 like their candy on Halloween - the backups are playing!”

8 and 3

there are players that would be starting

[PrimeTime101]

its funny how split we are on this topic. people say well, other defenses suffering same % and doing a bit better but for me.. its the WHO not the how manny

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

10 hours ago, Sargent Hulka said:

13 seconds!

Oh please! Detroit's two starting OG's did not play yesterday. Every team has injuries.

I think the big problem we have had is Bernard/Dodson are just not nfl caliber players yet and one of Milano/edmunds has been injured pretty much every week of the season.  That’s just way too big of a weak link to overcome on the defensive side when there’s 3 or 4 other high impact defensive starters injured also.  Idk much about the lions injury situation but I doubt they’ve been missing their two starting guards all year 
 

crazy that Klein stepped in virtually off the street and took all the snaps from Bernard and Dodson.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

My problem with Frazier is his stubborn refusal to blitz more, even when the situation calls for it.  I get why we don't blitz Mahomes, but Goff is not Mahomes.  He is TERRIBLE under pressure.  There we are with our top two DEs out and he is refusing to blitz.  I am begging my TV to blitz all game.  Finally in the fourth quarter he pressured Goff two straight plays and it led to a three and out.  And on those two plays Goff's throws were way off target.

 

There is Josh under pressure constantly (mainly because of our oline) and fighting thru like a gamer.  Goff can't do that consistently.

 

A few points...

 

1. We blitzed a ton on Thursday. Probably the most blitzes we have called all season. Interesting you only spotted the ones that worked late 4th Quarter rather than the ones that led to completions earlier on.

 

2. Coming into the game Goff was 70% completion against the blitz the last 3 weeks. 

[Gunvald's Husse]

10 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The  ills have faced a bunch of b/c grade qbs who have made plays vs this defence these past 5 weeks.

 

Aaron Rogers and Kirk Cousins are back-up grade QBs? 🙄

 

[JerseyBills]

18 hours ago, SUNTANBILLS FAN said:

Sorry can't agree too many 3rd and forevers converted. The the d line rotation is baffling. Your reward for a good play is to come out and sit. One play we destroy the OL the next no penetration. Some players need to get on a roll to dominate and coming in and out isn't how to make that happen. That said go bills

Lions completed 40% of their 3rd downs

Bills completed 58%

 

Lions are an extremely underrated team and were red hot coming into this gm. 

We went to their building and got a W with 45% of our defensive potential 

 

Edmunds and White will do wonders for this D going forward in the pass D