Who has been the biggest disappointment?

[Milanos Milano]

For me it’s a tie between Davis and McKenzie. If it wasn’t for Diggs being the dawg that he is, we’d be in deep trouble. When we face good secondaries, we have nobody that can take over a game when Diggs is taken out. It’s depressing because I though Davis could be that dude after the KC game last year. What is even more maddening is Shakir has shown flashes and yet he doesn’t get the playing time he deserves over McKenzie. It blows my mind that you have an elite QB and you can’t even get 50 yards a game. McKenzie has been an absolute soul crusher. 

[Virgil]

1 - Davis

2 - Cook

3 - Knox

4 - Edmunds

5 - Shakir

Edited November 7, 2022 by Virgil

[BruceVilanch]

I had pretty big expectations for Gabe and he's been pretty non existent outside of the Pittsburgh game. Knox has been disappointing but I give him a pass considering what he went through over the summer. 

[May Day 10]

Davis and Knox.  Also Crowder

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

1 - Davis

2 - Cook

3 - Edmunds

4 - Shakir

How in the world has Shakir made this list over McKenzie. You are more disappointed in Shakir vs McKenzie? How? McD has weird vendettas against offensive rookies for some odd reason, Shakir can ball and has not been given the chance. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by IronMaidenBills

[SoCal Deek]

Not even close…McKenzie is completely worthless in this offense. What happened to the Beasley role where Josh could always count on a quick eight yards? You cannot play offense without a slot receiver, no matter how good your QB or #1 WR are. It’s like we’re down a man. 

[Einstein]

Gabe Davis.

 

I thought after that breakout KC game he would take off this year.

 

Instead he has cost us many drives (and even a TD) due to his drops. He can’t be relied on as a true #2.

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

I had pretty big expectations for Gabe and he's been pretty non existent outside of the Pittsburgh game. Knox has been disappointing but I give him a pass considering what he went through over the summer. 

He drops like 50% of passes his way. It’s maddening to me. It’s soul crushing. Thank goodness we have Diggs, the only WR we can count on. We need a solid #2 WR that can take over games when we face good secondaries like we will have to do against the Jets going forward. 

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not even close…McKenzie is completely worthless in this offense. What happened to the Beasley role where Josh could always count on a quick eight yards? You cannot play offense without a slot receiver, no matter how good your QB or #1 WR are. It’s like we’re down a man. 

Imagine having a top 2 QB and arguably a Canton destined QB at that and failing to get 50 yards a game. McKenzie is an utter embarrassment for his speed skills. 

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Not even close…McKenzie is completely worthless in this offense. What happened to the Beasley role where Josh could always count on a quick eight yards? You cannot play offense without a slot receiver, no matter how good your QB or #1 WR are. It’s like we’re down a man. 

We have seen Shakir excel in limited playing time, which is even more mind boggling why we continue to plug McKenzie in. I don’t get it. 

[SCBills]

1) Davis - He was poised to be a top end #2.  He's not even an average #2.  He's a luxury high end big play WR3 at the moment.

 

2) McKenzie - We have next to zero slot production unless we move Diggs there.  This was a big part of Allen's evolution with a guy like Cole Beasley providing a safety valve to move the chains.  McKenzie needs to be replaced, now..  Whether it's by signing OBJ or giving Shakir a true opportunity.  McKenzie is killing the Offense by causing to play with a hand tied behind out back in 11 personnel.  He's a solid gadget player.. let him be that. 

 

3) Defensive Contract Guys - This may be unpopular, but Edmunds, Oliver and Poyer.  None of them are making the case to be re-signed. 

 

Edmunds looks great when the DL looks great.. struggles when the DL struggles.. still rarely any splash plays.  You don't pay guys like that.  Nick Bolton was more noticeable last night than Edmunds has been all year.  I know Edmunds has a different role, but you can't convince me that's worth 18M per year.

 

Oliver has been hurt, and maybe he's still working his way back... he's good, not great... you don't pay a good DT big money.  We'll see how the season progresses..

 

Poyer is a stud.  We all love the guy.  He's showing why you can't pay older players big money.  Availability.  At this point, the plan should be to simply manage his health to have him ready for the Playoffs. 

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

1) Davis - He was poised to be a top end #2.  He's not even an average #2.  He's a luxury high end big play WR3 at the moment.

 

2) McKenzie - We have next to zero slot production unless we move Diggs there.  This was a big part of Allen's evolution with a guy like Cole Beasley providing a safety valve to move the chains.  McKenzie needs to be replaced, now..  Whether it's by signing OBJ or giving Shakir a true opportunity.  McKenzie is killing the Offense by causing to play with a hand tied behind out back in 11 personnel.  He's a solid gadget player.. let him be that. 

 

3) Defensive Contract Guys - This may be unpopular, but Edmunds, Oliver and Poyer.  None of them are making the case to be re-signed. 

 

Edmunds looks great when the DL looks great.. struggles when the DL struggles.. still rarely any splash plays.  You don't pay guys like that.  Nick Bolton was more noticeable last night than Edmunds has been all year.  I know Edmunds has a different role, but you can't convince me that's worth 18M per year.

 

Oliver has been hurt, and maybe he's still working his way back... he's good, not great... you don't pay a good DT big money.  We'll see how the season progresses..

 

Poyer is a stud.  We all love the guy.  He's showing why you can't pay older players big money.  Availability.  At this point, the plan should be to simply manage his health to have him ready for the Playoffs. 

I agree with your list. I’d like to include an honorable mention with Knox. Not sure what happened to him this year, he’s been a ghost at times when we need him to take a game over. So jealous of KC having Kelce. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

HOUSE.  Never has his wallet when we need it. 🤨

[Brandon]

I'll cast another vote for Gabe Davis.  I expected him to be a solid second WR,  and so far,  he's just nowhere near consistent enough. 

 

The runner up would be the defensive front.  They've played well at times,  but for the investment,  I feel like they should be getting more from this group. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Biggest disappointment - The fan base. People are freaking out and the team is 6-2 still in the AFC lead.  Have some courage.  It's a long season.  

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, Brandon said:

I'll cast another vote for Gabe Davis.  I expected him to be a solid second WR,  and so far,  he's just nowhere near consistent enough. 

 

The runner up would be the defensive front.  They've played well at times,  but for the investment,  I feel like they should be getting more from this group. 

What happened to Settle? He’s been so underwhelming when he played so good in preseason. It’s like the dude hit the off switch. Just sad to see. 

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Biggest disappointment - The fan base. People are freaking out and the team is 6-2 still in the AFC lead.  Have some courage.  It's a long season.  

62 years Ethan. Don’t you dare pin this on the fans after the BS we’ve put up for years. 

[whorlnut]

I’m not even disappointed in McKenzie. I NEVER liked that signing and completely hate it now. No one could ever convince me that he was a viable replacement for Beasley. In fact, I think so many fans only like him cause he has a catchy nickname. He’s just not good. so I guess you could say I am disappointed that he got resigned. 
 

That said…for me it’s Davis and Knox. Davis has really seemed to have regressed. He let Alexander get in his head last week and has dropped some very catchable balls. He may have cost us both games that we lost with drops. I think last years playoff game gave a lot of us false hope with him. He’s solid, but not what we were hoping for. 
 

Knox has dealt with a lot.  Most of us can’t imagine what is going in his head and we should be thankful for that. But…we did pay him big money and he has to figure it out soon cause he’s been dang near invisible all season. 
 

 

[Repulsif]

Frazier

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

What happened to Settle? He’s been so underwhelming when he played so good in preseason. It’s like the dude hit the off switch. Just sad to see. 

62 years Ethan. Don’t you dare pin this on the fans after the BS we’ve put up for years. 

Sadly there are no good therapies for PTSD. You just need to work through your demons.  

We have the best QB this franchise has ever had.  I have my doubts about the coaching staff as I have documented for several years, but the organization is as good as it has ever been.  I don't think Beane is the genius people say he is, but he is probably better than average. And better than average with a league MVP candidate QB is good enough to win the SB.  

[LABILLBACKER]

Pretty much every pass catcher except Diggs.  Gabe, Knox & Isaiah have led the charge of disappointment.  And yes Dorsey start using Shakir and stop dicking around.  OL is always underwhelming. 

      5-6 defensive injuries have really hurt us. Along with Frazier's stubborn unwillingness to occassionally move out of the nickel (when appropriate).  Josh will reset and fix the head scratcher int's.

[Mango]

The last two weeks? 

QB has been the biggest disappointment. I would like Shakir to get more snaps. But what was the stat yesterday? 4 passes in the second half to receivers not named Diggs? That isn't a Diggs, Davis, Knox, McKenzie, Singletary, Cook, Hines, Shakir, Kumerow, problem. 

Josh is super star, but he isn't immune to bad stretches. This is one. It is what it is. 

[Big Turk]

I'd say the slot WR in general...Crowder only had 6 catches before going down for the year most likely with a broken ankle(maybe he can return late in the year), McKenzie has been nowhere and Shakir has had a few bright spots, but is still a rookie.

 

This played a huge role for us on offense the last few years and we are getting almost nothing from it now.

[BuffaloRebound]

Gotta be Knox and Davis.  

Mckenzie is a gadget guy and paid accordingly.  

Knox is paid like a top end Tight End and is putting up JAG production.  

Davis’s drops have killed possessions.  

[BananaB]

Davis, McKenzie and Knox.. How can it be anyone else? Not sure how anyone can put Shakir on the list, he’s lining up in numerous positions and seeing the field very little. You ain’t replacing Knox and Gabe with anyone so the only change can be Shakir and McKenzie. Let the rook play and focus on one position. 

[Bruffalo]

McKenzie has to be the top of the list.  He's not just been ineffective, he's been actively bad outside of some goaline stuff.  He's a situational player at best and and it feels proven now.

 

Gabe Davis is disappearing for huge chunks. I don't know if he just can't get open or if his route running needs work, he needs to do more though. 

[Virgil]

56 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

How in the world has Shakir made this list over McKenzie. You are more disappointed in Shakir vs McKenzie? How? McD has weird vendettas against offensive rookies for some odd reason, Shakir can ball and has not been given the chance. 

I have zero expectations of McK and almost expect a mistake from him every other game. 

[BillsFanSD]

Davis

Cook

Whoever is making decisions about which slightly-injured players sit or start

Spencer Brown

[RichRiderBills]

Mackenzie for sure.

 

His flashing last year was part of the decision making with moving on from Beasley. We are seriously dying from slot production. 

 

1st Honorable mention was Crowder. Who's injury limited him, but who even when healthy added virtually nothing.

 

2nd Honorable Mention Spencer Brown

 

3rd is Gabe Davis . Don't have much to add to what's been said. 

 

Everybody calling for OBJ ...part of me thinks calling Beeze or Sanders out of retirement should by a backup plan.

Edited November 7, 2022 by RichRiderBills

[ShakAttack]

It's funny to me how as recently as 2 weeks ago it was like "Odell Beckham... Yeah... We don't really need him..." and just like that Beckham seems like the missing ingredient for the offense.  What a difference 6 quarters makes, eh?
 

[May Day 10]

31 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Gotta be Knox and Davis.  

Mckenzie is a gadget guy and paid accordingly.  

Knox is paid like a top end Tight End and is putting up JAG production.  

Davis’s drops have killed possessions.  

 

I wondered at the deadline...

 

If they didnt pay Knox, could they have gotten Hockenson?  That guy could be a terror in this offense with this QB and turn into a generational TE as he was billed.

[MJS]

The past two games it has been Allen. Where is Josh Allen from the Rams game? He was so focused. He got the ball out quick. He took the easy passes. He took calculated risks and put his play makers in positions to succeed. He sustained long drives. Then add to that his ability to escape pressure and make off script plays, plus his ability to run it. He was absolutely unstoppable.

 

Allen needs to get back to that. He needs to come out next week and get the quick pass game going again. Dump it off to Singletary and Cook. Yes, take a shot here and there. Then the deep stuff and impactful plays will open up. But Allen needs to be more focused and read the defense.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

58 minutes ago, SCBills said:

1) Davis - He was poised to be a top end #2.  He's not even an average #2.  He's a luxury high end big play WR3 at the moment.

 

2) McKenzie - We have next to zero slot production unless we move Diggs there.  This was a big part of Allen's evolution with a guy like Cole Beasley providing a safety valve to move the chains.  McKenzie needs to be replaced, now..  Whether it's by signing OBJ or giving Shakir a true opportunity.  McKenzie is killing the Offense by causing to play with a hand tied behind out back in 11 personnel.  He's a solid gadget player.. let him be that. 

 

3) Defensive Contract Guys - This may be unpopular, but Edmunds, Oliver and Poyer.  None of them are making the case to be re-signed. 

 

Edmunds looks great when the DL looks great.. struggles when the DL struggles.. still rarely any splash plays.  You don't pay guys like that.  Nick Bolton was more noticeable last night than Edmunds has been all year.  I know Edmunds has a different role, but you can't convince me that's worth 18M per year.

 

Oliver has been hurt, and maybe he's still working his way back... he's good, not great... you don't pay a good DT big money.  We'll see how the season progresses..

 

Poyer is a stud.  We all love the guy.  He's showing why you can't pay older players big money.  Availability.  At this point, the plan should be to simply manage his health to have him ready for the Playoffs. 

 

WGR today said contracts coming up that Oliver is on that list. 

 

In what world? 

 

He's been 'ok' and that's all. 

 

Any rookie DT could fill in for Ed. 

 

He's a JAG. 

 

[RocCityRoller]

Ken Dorsey - Daboll did much better than Dorsey scheming guys open. Loads of posts about Knox, Davis, McKenzie etc disappearing in games, Josh Allen is regressing etc.

 

Did Knox just forget how to run routes and get open? Why are so many of Davis targets so contested? Why is McKenzie an afterthought? Why does such a higher percent of passes look like they are into tighter and tighter windows? Daboll is genius level at designing plays that puts a defense off balance and get guys open, even if a defense knows an offense will be pass first.

 

All of the players above have had forgettable plays and have been sloppy at times. Absolutely true. But I'm just not seeing the dynamic routes and play design. Where is the motion? Motion helps a QB understand the defense being played by how they react. I want to give my QB all the help I can whether it is Heineke or Mahomes.

 

When the run game stalled and defenses were teeing off on the pass, Dabs would call a Jet Sweep, end around or bubble screen, or he would go 4-5 wide and use a quick hit to slow a pass rush down, or generate a semblance of a run game. We don't see that this year.

 

This offense is terribly one dimensional and it is not innovative enough to impose it's will on better defenses. The hardest thing for a defense to do is make an offense one dimensional and then shut it down. The Bills do that for opponents on its own. Very little is being done to keep opposing defenses off balance.

 

Lastly, If a team brackets Diggs and spies Allen, there is no steady third option. Like the guy's point of view or not, Beasley was always a steady option to go if a D tried to take Diggs out and slow down Allen's run threat. Many many games that happened and Dabs went to quick hits to Beasley in the slot to get things going. Bease is not here, and I am not advocating he should have been here, but no replacement has stepped up. Some of that is on the players. Some of that is on the OC not utilizing what he has and using it more effectively.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

For me it’s a tie between Davis and McKenzie. If it wasn’t for Diggs being the dawg that he is, we’d be in deep trouble. When we face good secondaries, we have nobody that can take over a game when Diggs is taken out. It’s depressing because I though Davis could be that dude after the KC game last year. What is even more maddening is Shakir has shown flashes and yet he doesn’t get the playing time he deserves over McKenzie. It blows my mind that you have an elite QB and you can’t even get 50 yards a game. McKenzie has been an absolute soul crusher. 

 

For me, it would be Davis.

 

Davis is rocking a 47.4% catch %.  He's had 2 good games where he really put up good receiving yards, Rams and Pitt, playing I think against lesser DBs.  When we're playing against healthy top secondaries, he seems to get taken out.

 

He's had 4 games where he contributed less than 40 yds receiving: 37, 13, 35, 33.  Last 4 games 3 of 6, 3 of 6, 2 of 7, 2 of 5 receiving. 

 

He has 3 scored drops (8%) and has 4 INT on passes where he was targeted.  Some of that is on Josh, but some of that is on Davis not coming back to the ball and letting the DB get between him and the ball un-molested.

 

He plays over 94% of the offensive snaps, in part because we ask him to block downfield and even chip in the backfield, but he's not contributing proportionally to his snaps. 

 

We were counting on Davis to step up and assume the role of the #2 WR and it's not happening.

 

I don't get the Shakir clamor.  As I've said elsewhere, I see a TON of potential - looks smooth running routes when he's not being pressed, soft hands - but the guy has been on the field for 111 snaps, he's had 57 snaps from the slot, in the last 3 games he's been on the field 41 snaps and had 4 targets and 1 reception.  He's got 2 scored drops in 13 targets.   The coaches see him every day in practice, the coaches grade every play in  every game.  They have GPS data to look at the actual route he ran on every play.  They get data showing how open he is and when.  Same goes for McKenzie.

 

Yet somehow there is this fan conviction that stupid coaches are "keeping a good man down" and not giving Shakir "the playing time he deserves".  unless it's the old "when the starter is struggling, the backup QB is the most popular guy in town" phenomenon.  He's been replaced at PR by Hines, and one of the things mentioned was Hines could "play a game at slot" if need be. 

 

IDK, maybe they're giving Shakir playing time based upon what they see in practice and in games?  Or maybe they're just dumber about football and less observant than fans, IDK.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Beck Water

[PayDaBill$]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

1 - Davis

2 - Cook

3 - Knox

4 - Edmunds

5 - Shakir

How can you have Shakir & Cook on this list? Both have performed pretty well in extremely limited touches.

 

McD needs to get these guys more run.

 

Knox is another. It’s hard to tell because we never utilize the TE.

 

Biggest disappointments have to be Davis and McK.  Both are extremely inconsistent.

 

 

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said:

Ken Dorsey - Daboll did much better than Dorsey scheming guys open. Loads of posts about Knox, Davis, McKenzie etc disappearing in games, Josh Allen is regressing etc.

 

Serious question. 

 

Is it that Dorsey isn't scheming guys open?  Or is it that Josh Allen isn't seeing them/pulling the trigger but instead is always trying to take the most aggressive deepest option? (or maybe he doesn't trust his underneath guys).

 

I haven't watched a lot of all-22 this year, since NFL broke the interface (anyone know how I can get it with the old interface LMK).  But when I have watched, or when I watch some of the film breakdowns guys like Kurt Warner and Cover1 put out there, what I see is that there are often several guys who are open or coming open, but Josh seems fixed on taking the deepest option even if it is well covered or if the safety is in position to get over and double the coverage.

 

 

[ddaryl]

Davis and McKenzie are definitely underwhelming this year. I'm done with McKenzie, he is a gadget player on his best days and that is pretty much it.

But to be honest the New kids have flahed very little as well Shakir and Cook. No consistent contributions from either.

and we've already lost Crowder who wasn't doing much before the injury... 


Now  Josh hasn't been accurate or in the zone for the last 2 games so that plays into it a little, but when Josh is having off days others have to rise up, that has not been happening the last 2 weeks.

[Process]

How the hell can McKenzie be a disappointment when we knew he wasn't a good WR? And Davis is a former 4th round pick that has been very inconsistent throughout his career and did nothing before this year to show he can be a capable, every down #2 WR?

 

When talking about our WRs the only disappointment is Beane/McDermott. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Davis had a chance, a perfect chance to help tie or even win the game yesterday.  

 

Davis and Oliver have been my biggest disappointments.  

[Donuts and Doritos]

Davis

Brown

Butler

Saffold

Edited November 7, 2022 by Donuts and Doritos

[May Day 10]

I expected Ed Oliver to emerge this season as a dominant DT in the NFL, and the Bills to be unable to sign him.

 

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Biggest disappointment - The fan base. People are freaking out and the team is 6-2 still in the AFC lead.  Have some courage.  It's a long season.  

Easy to see it coming. So many people acted like the Bills were going to go 20-0 with nothing but blow out wins along the way to a championship. The Bills are going to have to earn it against some other good teams.