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Shaq is back! A one-year deal


Roundybout

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3 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

This tells me that they aren't 100% sold on AJE and Boogie. They are bringing in serious competition that could cause them to not make the roster, or be healthy scratches (like Boogie was a bunch last year).

Boogie got more time as the season wore on......McD tends to do this with rookies

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32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well..the point was they have to hedge their last 3 draft picks with these temps.  

 

You think they will be benchwarmers behind those other 3 guys?

The fact is, those guys have a total of four year’s experience between them.  It’s smart to sign cheap veteran depth when we have no idea what we’ve got.

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5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Boogie got more time as the season wore on......McD tends to do this with rookies

Right Jordan Phillips told a story about how he had a big game then had a ***** practice and Frasier laid into him. Made me think of how in Ed Oliver's rookie season he had some good games and it was like pulling teeth to get McDermott to acknowledge it in the pressers. McDermott and this coaching staff demand consistent solid play for anything they give.

Edited by Warcodered
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45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Would it shock people to see a trade in this DE stable?

 

It would shock me more if there was NOT a trade. That’s Beane’s style, pick up extra draft picks, even late ones, to use as chips to move around in the draft. We’ve got a LOT of DL options, and we haven’t drafted yet. 

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2 hours ago, SCBills said:

I completely disagree.  
 

This isn’t Nick Bosa.  It’s Von Miller at age 33.  
 

We have a team that shouldn’t be relying on him in most of our games.  
 

We want him to be the difference maker in the playoffs for the next 2-3 years.  
 

You make damn sure he’s healthy, rested and ready to go every year come playoff time. 
 

We’re paying him 17.5 per to win Super Bowls, not beat the Dolphins in October. 

Totally idiotic post. They need to get the playoffs, with home field advantage first. That won't happen if Miller is being "rested" for the hoped for post season that might not happen if were relying mainly on mostly unproven defensive line players. What owner in their right mind would pay $70M guaranteed, for a player as you say "They shouldn't be relying on for most of the regular season games"! Maybe you should lay off quoting drunken WGR callers comments for your talking points.          

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3 minutes ago, Ross Murdock said:

Totally idiotic post. They need to get the playoffs, with home field advantage first. That won't happen if Miller is being "rested" for the hoped for post season that might not happen if were relying mainly on mostly unproven defensive line players. What owner in their right mind would pay $70M guaranteed, for a player as you say "They shouldn't be relying on for most of the regular season games"! Maybe you should lay off quoting drunken WGR callers comments for your talking points.          


A smart owner who wants to win Super Bowls… which we have. 
 

We’ll see who’s right.  I guarantee we don’t play him anywhere close to the percentage of snaps he’s used to in the regular season.  
 

With the AFCW becoming a nuclear war, AFCN tough as well, there is zero reason this team (even without Von) shouldn’t be a 1 seed favorite. 
 

Edited by SCBills
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3 hours ago, H2o said:

Our defensive line is NEVER going to be tired with the rotation we'll have going on. We are going to EAT opposing QB's this year. 

 

They might get tired running on and off the field doing their rotations.

 

3 hours ago, SCBills said:


I completely disagree.  
 

This isn’t Nick Bosa.  It’s Von Miller at age 33.  
 

We have a team that shouldn’t be relying on him in most of our games.  
 

We want him to be the difference maker in the playoffs for the next 2-3 years.  
 

You make damn sure he’s healthy, rested and ready to go every year come playoff time. 
 

We’re paying him 17.5 per to win Super Bowls, not beat the Dolphins in October. 

 

You're right. Miller's value will be: 1) on passing downs 2) in the 4th quarters of tight games 3) in the playoffs.

 

I think Ed Oliver led all Bills DLs in % of snaps played at just over 50%. They need to save and ration out Miller over the course of a long 17 game season.

 

3 hours ago, FLFan said:

He is not a great football player.  He largely underperformed his first three years, had a big year in McD's rotation system in year 4, cashed in and proceeded to revert to form.  He could be a useful rotational piece for the Bills in their system if he is motivated to play.  That is his ceiling.  Not great.

 

Shaq Lawson is not a great player. He's a solid all-around end who is a better run defender than pass rusher, though he can break through for sacks on occasion. Lawson's value to a team (like all players) is dependent upon how much he is making. At Miami he was overpaid (3 years $30 million).

 

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

I don’t know…Shaq Lawson of 2019 would be a great signing.  He hasn’t played very well the past two seasons and has been released three times over the past year.  He’ll be a reserve this season so maybe the scheme will help him out.  Not a bad player to have as your 5th DE

 

It's not that he hasn't played well. The problem was that Shaq was over-signed as a free agent and then acquired by teams hoping he was someone he's not. In the right scheme at the right price with the right expectations he's a solid veteran player.

 

24 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Too smallish?  He lost like 20lbs from his weight in college because that is what the Bills asked him to do.

 

Yes the Bills blew it with Epenesa by asking him to lose weight. His greatest asset at Iowa was his strength and ability to hand fight and defeat blocking with leverage. In his senior year against USC he manhandled Miami 1st round OT Austin Jackson.

 

Epenesa needs to play at 275-280. The Bills will never make him into a speed rusher. Denver tried doing the same thing with Robert Ayers and failed miserably.

 

By asking him to lose weight the Bills took away Epenesa's greatest strength... his strength.

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16 minutes ago, mannc said:

The fact is, those guys have a total of four year’s experience between them.  It’s smart to sign cheap veteran depth when we have no idea what we’ve got.


it’s unfortunately necessary.  
 

with Epinesa, I think they realize what they got…

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5 minutes ago, SCBills said:

We’ll see who’s right.  I guarantee we don’t play him anywhere close to the percentage of snaps he’s used to in the regular season.  

Miller played 63% of the defensive snaps last year between the Broncos and Rams. That is slightly below his average, and sounds about right. 

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12 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Yes the Bills blew it with Epenesa by asking him to lose weight. His greatest asset at Iowa was his strength and ability to hand fight and defeat blocking with leverage. In his senior year against USC he manhandled Miami 1st round OT Austin Jackson.

 

Epenesa needs to play at 275-280. The Bills will never make him into a speed rusher. Denver tried doing the same thing with Robert Ayers and failed miserably.

 

By asking him to lose weight the Bills took away Epenesa's greatest strength... his strength.



This...this I agree with.

They drafted a 5T and tried to turn him into a speed rusher. Doesn't make any sense.

His path to a successful career, in my mind, was to build on his strength -- which, as Sierra pointed out, is his literal strength -- and become a Justin Smith type player. 

Instead, unless things change drastically or he bulks back up, he appears to be on the path to Bustville, which is a shame, because he's got talent.

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well..the point was they have to hedge their last 3 draft picks with these temps.  

 

You think they will be benchwarmers behind those other 3 guys?

I think they will rotate in and learn valuable lessons from guys that have been in the league for more than a year. 

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22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:


it’s unfortunately necessary.  
 

with Epinesa, I think they realize what they got…

Not sure if that's the case..imo they believe he has more and will keep him around a bit longer. You know how they are with 2nd round picks lol, like Ford, one would think they know what they have in him....but he's still there and still pretty bad

Edited by Sheneneh Jenkins
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Happy Shaq is back in general. Not his fault that he was drafted in the 1st, and then got overpaid by Miami. Good for him actually.

 

He is an excellent run defending DE and has enough juice to get about 4 sacks a year and push the pocket. 4 sacks would have tied as 2nd most sacks on Buffalo last year with Rousseau and Oliver.

 

Buffalo had issues against the Tennessee's and Indy' of the AFC. Shaq allows a nickel to be played as a base, and play better run defense.

 

I feel that way about adding Jones, Settle and Miller too.

 

Welcome back!

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4 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

While the whole Phillips/Lawson reunion storyline is great, there's no guarantees either of them are going to be on the roster beyond training camp because of how deep this line is all of a sudden.

This is true, Beane likes a lot of competition, its gonna be interesting to see who makes the team, 

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41 minutes ago, Logic said:



This...this I agree with.

They drafted a 5T and tried to turn him into a speed rusher. Doesn't make any sense.

His path to a successful career, in my mind, was to build on his strength -- which, as Sierra pointed out, is his literal strength -- and become a Justin Smith type player. 

Instead, unless things change drastically or he bulks back up, he appears to be on the path to Bustville, which is a shame, because he's got talent.


It was total mishandling. I think they were just so desperate for sacks that they made that move. And now he just had another meh wasted year. I am holding out hope that he just needs a minute. It took him a while at Iowa. But hope is starting to wane. 

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1 hour ago, SCBills said:


A smart owner who wants to win Super Bowls… which we have. 
 

We’ll see who’s right.  I guarantee we don’t play him anywhere close to the percentage of snaps he’s used to in the regular season.  
 

With the AFCW becoming a nuclear war, AFCN tough as well, there is zero reason this team (even without Von) shouldn’t be a 1 seed favorite. 
 

I think this is right and playing him in a rotation can extend his potential window 

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I was not a fan of the Philips and Lawson signings at first, they may not even make the team with this deep group but it says something that these guys have all stayed close and don't mind coming here for less money to give it another go and both probably never wanted to leave in the first place. People say culture doesn't matter and I say to hell with that, dudes have been coming in here with their kids talking about raising families and being a tight knit group, this team has come a hell of a long way!

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2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Would it shock people to see a trade in this DE stable?

Not really, or at least it shouldn’t, Beane might turn a couple of them into a CB, he is a Wizard after all…

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8 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I was not a fan of the Philips and Lawson signings at first, they may not even make the team with this deep group but it says something that these guys have all stayed close and don't mind coming here for less money to give it another go and both probably never wanted to leave in the first place. People say culture doesn't matter and I say to hell with that, dudes have been coming in here with their kids talking about raising families and being a tight knit group, this team has come a hell of a long way!

this really interests me that.. Lawson and Phillips wanted to come back after being let free to make the bigger coin

 

And that McBeanes actually wanted them back.
 still pondering these two moves
:)
 but for now ? Hell yes.

lets Go Buffalo !! 

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1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:


it’s unfortunately necessary.  
 

with Epinesa, I think they realize what they got…

Probably, but it’s not unusual for edge rushers to take a while to develop…especially a tweener like AJ

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12 minutes ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I was not a fan of the Philips and Lawson signings at first, they may not even make the team with this deep group but it says something that these guys have all stayed close and don't mind coming here for less money to give it another go and both probably never wanted to leave in the first place. People say culture doesn't matter and I say to hell with that, dudes have been coming in here with their kids talking about raising families and being a tight knit group, this team has come a hell of a long way!

 

Let's be honest. Lawson and Phillips signed silly contracts elsewhere when due. Good for them getting the $$$. It wasn't here.

 

If I recall correctly that year Buffalo signed Addison, Butler, Jefferson to replace them. This board was so happy.

I can't recall if Star and/or Murphy was the same year or not, but honestly, how much better was Buffalo with those signings and all that tied up FA money than with Lawson and Phillips?

 

Addison was a success by sack numbers, but how many times did we see QBs and RBs run through his tackles?

Jefferson was a non-positional bust

Butler showed flashes here and there but never held down any position

Star is a solid 1TDT when healthy and motivated (almost never), and we are still stuck with that contract

Murphy was not an answer to any question.

 

That is a lot of money spent to not improve off of Lawson and Phillips.

 

With Lawson you have a run stopping DE who can generate 4 sacks (Time in Buffalo - Mean 4.1, median 4, mode 4), that is handy vs TN/ INDY/ SF

With Phillips you have a definitive 3T guy. When motivated he is a mess to deal with. He was never more motivated than in Buffalo.

Both guys love the team and have defined roles, something Jefferson and Butler never had.

 

Happy to have both back TBH.

 

Just wish other positions were addressed. Signing Miller, Jones, Settle, Lawson, Phillips is a hell of an indictment of prior DL FA spending, and 4 premium draft picks in the last 3 drafts on DL. Buffalo lacks in identifying and developing DL play. It should be obvious now. I hope Miller can point out a few things. The DC was a Safety on the 85 Bears, and McDermott was a S in college. Frazier and McDermott can make chicken salad out of chicken sh!t in the secondary. (Wallace UDFA and 7th round Dane Jackson being CB#1 and #2). They suck at the front 6/7. This is why IMO Buffalo plays a Nickel base. It is what our coaches are good at.

 

The continued attention to DL is coming at the deficit of OL, WR and other positions. I hope this is the right mix and that the draft is spent fixing OL, DB and WR.

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3 hours ago, gordong said:

Let me guess your one of the guy that want 50 probowlers on a team...right.   he's not a great pass rusher everyone knows that... he is good however at stopping the run.... maybe just maybe, the team as a plan how to use the guy....   all these guy are not being signed to start... take a breathe... enjoy the ride. 

 

Of course I want 50 pro bowlers on the team.... who doesn't!!

I'm not posting on here about how much I dislike the signing(even though I don't like it)... it's the love-fest for the guy..

My main issue is the $$$ people on this board wanted to fork out for him 2 years ago... And I decided to bring it back up. The stupidity of $12M+ to a player that was worth maybe $6M at the time. And based on the past 2 years, he's worth less than that!

Here's my post below. 

 

5 hours ago, costrovs said:

LOL

I can't believe the love-fest for this guy.

Do any of you remember 2 years ago when it seemed like half this board thought that it'd be a great idea to give this guy 12M+ a year?

Then he went to MIAMI AND THE JETS for 2 years!

This guy is average at best. 

 

I think half this board is confusing Shaq Lawson with Shaquille O'neal.

Just because they have the same first name, doesn't mean they'll have the same results.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:


it’s unfortunately necessary.  
 

with Epinesa, I think they realize what they got…

 

 

I don't think there's any way they can realize what they have with Epenesa. It's been two years. That's not enough.

 

And the second he'd been asked to lose weight but apparently had trouble holding the lower weight they'd asked him to maintain. 

 

Does he need to eat differently? Be five pounds heavier than he was last year? Just learn an extra pass rush move or two? It's too early to know. 

 

Not too early for fans to have strong suspicions, but it really is too early to know.

Edited by Thurman#1
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7 hours ago, SCBills said:


Star is getting cut and we likely carry 9 DL. 
 

For once, I love the deep rotation, because if I’m McDermott - my sole focus for Von Miller these next 2-3 years is too simply make sure he’s rested & healthy for the playoffs. 

Yup.  Keep his snap count from 55-62% during the regular season and amp it up for the playoffs 

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3 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Let's be honest.

 

Starting a post with "let's be honest" seems to imply that you doubt the honesty of the people on this board, or at least the person to whom you're responding.  Is that your intent?

 

3 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Lawson and Phillips signed silly contracts elsewhere when due. Good for them getting the $$$. It wasn't here.

 

If I recall correctly that year Buffalo signed Addison, Butler, Jefferson to replace them. This board was so happy.

I can't recall if Star and/or Murphy was the same year or not, but honestly, how much better was Buffalo with those signings and all that tied up FA money than with Lawson and Phillips?

 

Lotulelei and Murphy were both signed here in 2018, Beane's first off-season.  Murphy had been a promising young pass rusher with 9 sacks the year before his ACL injury.  We had him the first year he was back, and he never returned to form. 

 

Phillips and Lawson both left in FA after 2019, so Murphy, Lotulelei, Phillips, and Lawson played together for 2 years.  It takes a couple seconds to look this up. 

 

I'm not quite sure what your point is here?  You seem to have the sequence of arrivals and departures and the roles players were intended to fill/actually asked to fill  a bit blurred, and your intended point is blurred with it. 

 

Is it that the guys who arguably were signed to replace Lawson and Phillips (Addison and Butler) cost the same as Lawson and Phillips?  Can you back that up?  (I don't have energy in researching it for you, but I think it was less)

 

Are you trying to say that McDermott should philosophically "step away from the DL rotation" so he doesn't keep 10 or 11 DLmen on the roster every year?  It's a point, but it would require a fundamental change in philosophy.

 

McDermott believes in a DL rotation, so it's not like Murphy was signed to replace Lawson (even if the dates lined up, which they don't) and a 1T DT role differs from a 3T DT role, so it's not like Star was signed to replace Phillips (even if those dates lined up, which they don't) or vice versa.

 

 

3 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Addison was a success by sack numbers, but how many times did we see QBs and RBs run through his tackles?

 

Actually, Addison did not achieve as expected by sack numbers.  He had 11, 9, and 9.5 in the 3 years before he was signed along with 15,12, and 14 QB hits.

 

In his 2 seasons here, he averaged 6 sacks and 7.5 QB hits.  By his previous numbers, he was expected to  be an improvement on Shaq, and he wasn't.

 

3 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Jefferson was a non-positional bust

 

I'm not sure what "non-positional bust" means.  Pretty sure Q Jefferson was signed as a partial replacement for Zo Alexander, a guy who could be a bit of a "joker" and play either inside or outside. Once Lotulelei opted out in 2020 no one on the inside of the line was used as they were intended; Jefferson was asked to eat a steady diet of 3TDT snaps and he didn't do well.

 

3 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Butler showed flashes here and there but never held down any position

 

Butler was signed as a 3TDT and played better in 2021 when he was allowed to be a 3TDT.  In 2020, he was asked to play 1TDT when Lotulelei opted out and we were left with just Harrison Phillips coming back from ACL surgery on the roster.  It wasn't his gig and he struggled.  He got better towards the end of the season, which helped us down the stretch.

 

3 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Star is a solid 1TDT when healthy and motivated (almost never), and we are still stuck with that contract

Murphy was not an answer to any question.

 

That is a lot of money spent to not improve off of Lawson and Phillips.

 

Again, you seem to be implying that Murphy and Star were signed to replace Lawson and Phillips.  They were not.  They were signed in 2018, and played alongside Lawson and Phillips for 2 seasons. 

 

There are a bunch of sites on the Interwebs where this kind of thing can be looked up very quickly.  Pro-football-reference.com is one such.

 

3 hours ago, RocCityRoller said:

Both guys love the team and have defined roles, something Jefferson and Butler never had.

 

See above regarding roles.

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  An opinion is stronger when it's supported by correct info.

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5 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel said:

I was not a fan of the Philips and Lawson signings at first, they may not even make the team with this deep group but it says something that these guys have all stayed close and don't mind coming here for less money

 

Do we know what their money is yet?

 

Shaq Lawson struggled in Miami and with the Jets.  There may be other factors there, but it's not like he likely had other suitors beating down his agents door to pay him the big bucks.

 

Jordan Phillips was a big disappointment in Arizona, in part due to several injuries.  Again, it's not likely he had other suitors beating down his agents door

 

Depending on the money spent and the energy/attitude they bring, it may be great moves for us, but it's not like it's out of the great love and goodness of their hearts.

 

It will come at a cost of not being able to keep younger developmental players on the roster, even if we pick a couple up in the draft or as UDFA.  Wyatt Teller would be an example of that pitfall; we traded him away just before the start of his 2nd season because Morse was out all preseason with a concussion, and we wanted to ensure we had an OLman who was proven to be able to play C on the roster in the 6 year veteran Spencer Long.  I can't argue the move in the short run, but in the long run it wasn't to our roster development benefit.

 

PS that will prolly be taken as a "Debbie Downer" thing but I don't say it to poop on the signings, just pragmatically.   Because of the cap and roster limits, there are some zero-sum games here: while the Steelers are sticking with Big Ben, they can't invest a high draft pick in a young QB and develop him etc.

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8 hours ago, costrovs said:

O'Neal at 50 years old would probably play better than Lawson did last season. So I'm all for it!


I don’t care how big an OT is, they would not be able to stop him.   As an OL, he’d also be impossible to get past.

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13 hours ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:

Now we can use less nickel against the run. This might help that look get fresh again for opposing OC’s. 

I am at a loss here.  Does this mean we play a 4-3 as our base now because our front 4 is better?

 

Wouldn't we be inclined to stay with our base nickel even more so?  

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1 hour ago, freddyjj said:

I am at a loss here.  Does this mean we play a 4-3 as our base now because our front 4 is better?

 

Wouldn't we be inclined to stay with our base nickel even more so?  


I don’t know? To me, adding Lawson, allows you to put Miller in sort of a stand up spot, and still keep Edmunds and Milano on the field. You may lose something in pass protection, but you are better suited against the runs. 
 

I don’t know…

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