What Heath Farwell said about Bills punter Matt Haack

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

100%.  In the NFL the holders effect the kicks more so than the kickers.

 

Mason Crosby has been off this season suddenly. Coincidence? I doubt it!

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

 

“(Haack) is coming on nicely, as far as punting. He’s been unbelievable for Bass. He is the best caddie, as I call him, in the league as far as he’s an elite holder. That helps Bass be who he is. He’s a big brother to him. And he’s coaching him up and helping him out. He has a great feel for everything. We just love him in the room. I can’t say enough good things about him,” Farwell said.

 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/12/what-sean-mcdermott-said-about-bills-punter-matt-haack/

 

I saw some people on Reddit throwing around the "elite holder" comment and I have to flat out disagree. 

 

The baseline expectation for a place holder is to make it through the year with no fumbled snaps or issues facing the laces. That's AVERAGE. There's no such thing as an "elite" place holder. 

 

I think the issue is we went from Bojorquez, by far the worst holder in the league, to Haack. People only think Haack is elite at holding because Bojo was so terrible at it. 

 

700k deadcap if we cut Haack after this season. I'd be surprised if we don't have a different punter come week 1 2022. 

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Did anyone else notice that during Haack's struggles the other day, he was attempting the "Aussie" style punts for those 3 awful attempts? He then switched to the more traditional "Reggie Roby" style spiral punts and they cut right threw that wind for his final 2 (I think it was 2...) punts. I found that very interesting.

The other kicks have a smaller margin of error.  Also why he forces so many fair catches.  I prefer Haack type over Bojo.  Both have misses.  Haack is much better pining teams inside the 10 and 5.  Bojo bombs balls but the nuance isnt there.  Mason Crosby being so shaky this year is can be blamed on Bojo imo.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

1 hour ago, dorquemada said:

Haack obv had a bad game last week, but can't completely discount conditions.  If Farwell is being strait with us, the calculation is, does Haack's holding ability outweigh his lack of punting ability?  His punting hasn't been terrible and I'm not sure it's made a difference at any point this year.  I think we're more likely to see a game decided by a field goal rather than punting?

I saw some advanced analytics on The Athletic that actually ranked Haack as the worst punter in the NFL. 

The same article also said that punting is becoming less and less relevant in today's NFL as teams score more often and go for it on 4th down more often.

[JGMcD2]

29 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have never seen a team that values special teams enough to waste all of these game day roster spots on guys that can ONLY play STs…you can not waste a spot on a guy that can just hold and use another guy to punt. Make Trubitsky the holder, or a WR if you are going to use the other punter. I don’t care how great Haak is as a holder. If he can’t punt, you can’t waste a spot. Other guys can hold if need be but someone needs to punt. A hell of alot better then last weekend.

Have you actually sat down and dissected rosters and players that were just core special teamers? 
 

I have a post somewhere looking at the Patriots under Belichick and they had as many “ST only” players as we generally roster. 
 

I’m sure it’s not as extreme across the league as you’re perceiving it to be. 

[34-78-83]

1 minute ago, Mat68 said:

The other kicks have a smaller margin of error.  Also why he forces so many fair catches.  I prefer Haack type over Bojo.  Both have misses.  Haack is much better pining teams inside the 10 and 5.  Bojo bombs balls but the nuance isnt there.  Mason Crosby being so shaky this year is can be blamed on Bojo imo.

right right but did you notice the change in style mid-game? Worked much better for him cutting into the wind. Was interesting. Those were my points and question...

[HOUSE]

Mat Haaks bobbled punt completely faked me out.

[Mat68]

5 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

right right but did you notice the change in style mid-game? Worked much better for him cutting into the wind. Was interesting. Those were my points and question...

Yes, that is the style he uses.  Very hard to field.  Mix with some wind and can get a muff. The style he went to was more effective for the elements but puts more on the coverage unit.  The first is why he was brought in.  

[buffaloaggie]

24 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Mason Crosby has been off this season suddenly. Coincidence? I doubt it!

Mason Crosby is 37 years old. That could have something to do with it. Also, Crosby has had an up and down career. 100% made, 75% made, 64% FG made seasons. Seems to be a question of which Mason Crosby shows up each year. Bass was doing a lot better at the end of last year after gaining confidence in his first season. It's more than just about a holder. Georgia's punter would also be a good 7th round pick.

[26TrapDraw]

When our Offense is clicking We don’t need a punter.

breasts on a Bull.

[hondo in seattle]

2 hours ago, jletha said:

meanwhile:

 

https://larrybrownsports.com/football/mason-crosby-laces-in-holder-corey-borjorquez/586773

 

 

Bojo was significantly better than Haack in both punt average and net average. 

 

But his inability to learn how to be a good holder is puzzling.  It's going to hurt/kill his career.

 

 

[JGMcD2]

11 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

Bojo was significantly better than Haack in both punt average and net average. 

 

But his inability to learn how to be a good holder is puzzling.  It's going to hurt/kill his career.

 

 

Bojórquez at 40 yards net average vs Haack at 38 yards net average is significantly better? 

[billsfan89]

Haack outside of the Jets game has in my opinion been a mid-level punter. But if he is having a positive impact on the kicking game I would take having better field goal kicking and living with average punting. However Haack can't have another Jets like game in the playoffs. He has to have learned his lesson to just boot punts in the wind.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Have you actually sat down and dissected rosters and players that were just core special teamers? 
 

I have a post somewhere looking at the Patriots under Belichick and they had as many “ST only” players as we generally roster. 
 

I’m sure it’s not as extreme across the league as you’re perceiving it to be. 

Having 1 punter to hold and 1 punter to punt is ludicrous. Having a kick off specialist was the same deal. And having guys that are just gunners or coverage guys Is silly. You can use backups to do these jobs and get the most out of your roster. If you are a strictly ST guy…you better be a K/P/LS or excellent Return guy. Special teams has never been less important then it is right now. There are barely any Kick returns and almost everything is a penalty anyway. In other decades fine. Now STs is almost phased out. It’s not worth wasting spots you can use for offense or defense. It’s not 1/3 of the game. It’s more like 1/6 at this point. You can just fair catch almost everything and get the same as you get now honestly.

[Pete]

I was listening to Bills podcast- they said the Jets offensive MVP in Bills game was Haaack.  He kept shanking punts to try and get the Jets back in the game LOL

[RyanC883]

4 hours ago, Pete said:

Notice he didn’t say anything about Hacks punting ability.  I’m continuing my crusade banging the table that we overdraft Azaria

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32591242/why-college-football-see-attraction-punter-san-diego-state%3fplatform=amp

 

I'd draft a punter.  6th or 7th.  I think we got Bass in the 6th?  

[HOUSE]

In Haaks defense, he was using a different technique for punting in the wind, after a few laughers McD obviously told him to knock off that ****

He was OK after that...

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Having 1 punter to hold and 1 punter to punt is ludicrous. Having a kick off specialist was the same deal. And having guys that are just gunners or coverage guys Is silly. You can use backups to do these jobs and get the most out of your roster. If you are a strictly ST guy…you better be a K/P/LS or excellent Return guy. Special teams has never been less important then it is right now. There are barely any Kick returns and almost everything is a penalty anyway. In other decades fine. Now STs is almost phased out. It’s not worth wasting spots you can use for offense or defense. It’s not 1/3 of the game. It’s more like 1/6 at this point. You can just fair catch almost everything and get the same as you get now honestly.

Well we don’t have one punter to punt and one punter to hold? Not sure where that’s coming from. 
 

Our ST only guys are Tyler Matakevich, Matt Haack, Tyler Bass, Reid Ferguson and Taiwan Jones. That’s it. 
 

Our 4th string RB and 4th string LB. What’s the problem? 

[TheBillsOrDie]

McDermott said via video conference. “There were plays we all obviously want back. I’m sure that he wants some of those back. I love the fact that he’s a resilient competitor and I can’t wait to watch him moving forward.”

 

[ColoradoBills]

Well in a perfect world Haack would stop shanking punts and not get anymore blocked but the world isn't perfect.

It seems to me you got to bring in some good competition for training camp next year.

It's the playoffs and I don't see any changes coming soon.

[ArdmoreRyno]

FYI: 

 

Bojo is averaging 46.5 ypp (40 yard net) this season with Green Bay.  

Haack is averaging 42.9 ypp (37 net). 

[Nextmanup]

I'm surprised the act of holding the ball is complex enough that some are considered "elite" at it but others are not.

 

It seems to me like either you can do it or you can't, and those that can are pretty much all the same.

 

I often watch holders during games and admire how well they do their job.

 

Aside from the odd mistake, it seems like ALL OF THEM are very good at it.  They calmly catch the ball, place it down, rotate the laces away and get their holding hand/arm out of the way.

 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

37 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Well we don’t have one punter to punt and one punter to hold? Not sure where that’s coming from. 
 

Our ST only guys are Tyler Matakevich, Matt Haack, Tyler Bass, Reid Ferguson and Taiwan Jones. That’s it. 
 

Our 4th string RB and 4th string LB. What’s the problem? 

I have heard the idea floated around to bring up the other punter to punt and keep Haack active to hold

[LABILLBACKER]

6 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have never seen a team that values special teams enough to waste all of these game day roster spots on guys that can ONLY play STs…you can not waste a spot on a guy that can just hold and use another guy to punt. Make Trubitsky the holder, or a WR if you are going to use the other punter. I don’t care how great Haak is as a holder. If he can’t punt, you can’t waste a spot. Other guys can hold if need be but someone needs to punt. A hell of alot better then last weekend.

What happened to an athlete doing 100% of his job. Haack is a great holder but mediocre punter. Tremaine is an amazing pass cover mike but struggles at run support. Everyone is a specialist now.

[DCofNC]

I honestly would roll with another punter off the street for the playoffs and let Hack be the holder.  One player at the end of your bench isn’t going to make or break you. 

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

What happened to an athlete doing 100% of his job. Haack is a great holder but mediocre punter. Tremaine is an amazing pass cover mike but struggles at run support. Everyone is a specialist now.

Umm since when is Edmunds even good at pass coverage?  That’s just the crap they try to say because he’s fast, he gets looked off so easy it’s pathetic.

12 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

What happened to an athlete doing 100% of his job. Haack is a great holder but mediocre punter. Tremaine is an amazing pass cover mike but struggles at run support. Everyone is a specialist now.

Umm since when is Edmunds even good at pass coverage?  That’s just the crap they try to say because he’s fast, he gets looked off so easy it’s pathetic.

[Ralonzo]

7 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

 

 

 

“Hi, I’m calling for Holder? First name Anita.”

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

 

“Hi, I’m calling for Holder? First name Anita.”

"Is there a Hugh Jass here?"

[frostbitmic]

He's much better in games we don't need him to punt the football.

[LeGOATski]

He's gonna mess up a hold on Saturday. Just watch.

 

 

[HurlyBurly51]

Cool.  Designated roster spots for a holder and a punt catcher.

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have heard the idea floated around to bring up the other punter to punt and keep Haack active to hold

By the Bills or by fans on this message board? 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

4 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

By the Bills or by fans on this message board? 

Fans and WGR. Sal. A few places 

[without a drought]

I'm beginning to think that he is actually right footed.

[JGMcD2]

42 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Fans and WGR. Sal. A few places 

Well that’s not the Bills actually doing it. 
 

You message made it seem like they had or were planning to do something like that. Complaining about ST only players. 

[Doc]

8 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have heard the idea floated around to bring up the other punter to punt and keep Haack active to hold

 

I thought of that myself, but having 2 punters active is crazy.  Is Gillan not a good holder for FGs?

 

And if they do keep Haack punting, I'd have him set-up a few yards back.  The extra yards given up in field position might be worth not getting blocked.

[Patrick Duffy]

Wonder if any Punter has ever shanked 3 punts in a row before? 

[Patrick Duffy]

Was funny after 3 shanks he finally had a normal punt and fans celebrated 

[Victory Formation]

He’s a punter and you’re applauding him for being an elite holder? smh. He’s gone in the offseason.

[Mr. WEO]

23 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Just don't punt. Problem solved.

 

yeah, when fans are crying about how bad the punter in a game where they covered a 16 point spread.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[Orlando Tim]

19 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

FYI: 

 

Bojo is averaging 46.5 ypp (40 yard net) this season with Green Bay.  

Haack is averaging 42.9 ypp (37 net). 

This is why they overpaid for Haack- he might not be great at punting professionally speaking, but we rarely need it but even so it is 4 yards of field position on average. if he gives us one field goal in the playoffs due to his holding he is worth itAs for the shanks I think it was him learning how to kick in Buffalo. I expect him to just kick it hard from now on and not try and place it so much.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Buffalo Timmy