Our RBs Receiving totals

[Big Blitz]

Moss:

 

Week 1: DNP

Week 2: 8

Week 3: 31

Week 4: 0

Week 5: 55

Week 6: 15

 

Motor:

 

Week 1: 8

Week 2: 9

Week 3: 0

Week 4: 7

Week 5: -2

Week 6: 16

 

 

Horrendous.  And I don't think it's just bc Josh is wired to take shots downfield.  Settling for the 2 FGs in the first quarter against the Titans this just seemed so glaring an issue.   

 

We all see what the defenses are doing.  2 deep.....rush only 4 or 3.  Make us dink and dunk.  

 

This becomes much easier if we have an outlet that's a bit more of a threat out of the backfield.  Of course a running game will also address that.  Especially in the green zone.  

 

I like Motor and Moss.  But I also want to win the SB.  If we can't utilize RBs in the run game and passing game we aren't helping ourselves - run game been ok...dual threat not remotely.  Of all the issues to address (there aren't many) this could be the most fixable.  The Patriots had White.  The Bucs have Fournette.  The Chargers Eckeler.  The Browns have Hunt.  You want this dimension of your offense to be legit.  Ours isn't.  I want the O to have this check down threat for Josh.  It isn't good enough.  

 

 

In short, go get Miles Sanders.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Big Blitz

[78thealltimegreat]

23 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Moss:

 

Week 1: DNP

Week 2: 8

Week 3: 31

Week 4: 0

Week 5: 55

Week 6: 15

 

Motor:

 

Week 1: 8

Week 2: 9

Week 3: 0

Week 4: 7

Week 5: -2

Week 6: 16

 

 

Horrendous.  And I don't think it's just bc Josh is wired to take shots downfield.  Settling for the 2 FGs in the first quarter against the Titans this just seemed so glaring an issue.   

 

We all see what the defenses are doing.  2 deep.....rush only 4 or 3.  Make us dink and dunk.  

 

This becomes much easier if we have an outlet that's a bit more of a threat out of the backfield.  Of course a running game will also address that.  Especially in the green zone.  

 

I like Motor and Moss.  But I also want to win the SB.  If we can't utilize RBs in the run game and passing game we aren't helping ourselves - run game been ok...dual threat not remotely.  Of all the issues to address (there aren't many) this could be the most fixable.  The Patriots had White.  The Bucs have Fournette.  The Chargers Eckeler.  The Browns have Hunt.  You want this dimension of your offense to be legit.  Ours isn't.  I want the O to have this check down threat for Josh.  It isn't good enough.  

 

 

In short, go get Miles Sanders.

Oh I agree …I doubt we get any upgrade now they’ll ride with these guys but if a team like the Jags want to keep stockpiling draft picks go get me James Robinson and I’ll see you in LA at the end of the season since he’s all this offense is missing 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I don't understand why we don't give Bredia some reps on passing downs. Instead of making 3 rb's active we insist on having McKenzie and Kumerow active

(Who combined had 5 snaps vs the Titans!)

[GoBills808]

Miles Sanders: 20.2 yards/game receiving

 

Zach Moss: 21.8 yards/game receiving

 

 

[Blank Stare]

They make it look really difficult to run a RB screen. I feel like it is rarely successful. Like they’ve never done it before. Seriously, it’s painful to watch. 
 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Panthers should be willing to move on from McCaffrey now that he's been injured two years in a row...

[Big Blitz]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Miles Sanders: 20.2 yards/game receiving

 

Zach Moss: 21.8 yards/game receiving

 

 

 

 

What's Gainwell's?  Targets and yards.  

 

Different offenses.  

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Moss:

 

Week 1: DNP

Week 2: 8

Week 3: 31

Week 4: 0

Week 5: 55

Week 6: 15

 

Motor:

 

Week 1: 8

Week 2: 9

Week 3: 0

Week 4: 7

Week 5: -2

Week 6: 16

 

 

Horrendous.  And I don't think it's just bc Josh is wired to take shots downfield.  Settling for the 2 FGs in the first quarter against the Titans this just seemed so glaring an issue.   

 

We all see what the defenses are doing.  2 deep.....rush only 4 or 3.  Make us dink and dunk.  

 

This becomes much easier if we have an outlet that's a bit more of a threat out of the backfield.  Of course a running game will also address that.  Especially in the green zone.  

 

I like Motor and Moss.  But I also want to win the SB.  If we can't utilize RBs in the run game and passing game we aren't helping ourselves - run game been ok...dual threat not remotely.  Of all the issues to address (there aren't many) this could be the most fixable.  The Patriots had White.  The Bucs have Fournette.  The Chargers Eckeler.  The Browns have Hunt.  You want this dimension of your offense to be legit.  Ours isn't.  I want the O to have this check down threat for Josh.  It isn't good enough.  

 

 

In short, go get Miles Sanders.

 

 

Yardage totals don't prove that our outlets aren't a threat.

 

All it proves is that we're not throwing to the RBs. Doesn't show why. Maybe Josh just wants to throw to TEs or WRs instead, as a preference.

 

Singletary has only been targeted 18 times. He's been open one whole hell of a lot more than that. Same with Moss who's been targeted 14 times. Again, open much much more often than that.

 

If we get an RB who's a terrific pass catcher, what will likely happen is that we'll have an RB who is a terrific pass catcher not being targeted much.

[LeGOATski]

The answer is absolutely Josh Allen, in my opinion. They run the plays that he likes to run and he now has more command of the offense than ever. He's not inclined to dink and dunk. The best players on the offense are the WRs and he wants to give them the ball.

[GunnerBill]

I mean I love Miles Sanders. I think he would be an exponential upgrade and great in this offense. But I am not throwing more resources after a running back. That is not the missing piece. 

[JoshAllin]

The rb's always look open to me when watching, josh just doesn't usually go to them which isn't that much of a problem according to the scores

[Doc Brown]

I think it's really as simple as Josh hates checking down.  Wouldn't have it any other way after watching a Bridgewater/Keenum game.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Man, I see where you’re going here. But lest us not forget, the Bills are second in the league with PPG at just under 34.

 

They’re okay. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Moss:

 

Week 1: DNP

Week 2: 8

Week 3: 31

Week 4: 0

Week 5: 55

Week 6: 15

 

Motor:

 

Week 1: 8

Week 2: 9

Week 3: 0

Week 4: 7

Week 5: -2

Week 6: 16

 

 

Horrendous.  And I don't think it's just bc Josh is wired to take shots downfield.  Settling for the 2 FGs in the first quarter against the Titans this just seemed so glaring an issue.   

 

We all see what the defenses are doing.  2 deep.....rush only 4 or 3.  Make us dink and dunk.  

 

This becomes much easier if we have an outlet that's a bit more of a threat out of the backfield.  Of course a running game will also address that.  Especially in the green zone.  

 

I like Motor and Moss.  But I also want to win the SB.  If we can't utilize RBs in the run game and passing game we aren't helping ourselves - run game been ok...dual threat not remotely.  Of all the issues to address (there aren't many) this could be the most fixable.  The Patriots had White.  The Bucs have Fournette.  The Chargers Eckeler.  The Browns have Hunt.  You want this dimension of your offense to be legit.  Ours isn't.  I want the O to have this check down threat for Josh.  It isn't good enough.  

 

 

In short, go get Miles Sanders.

I love me some Miles Sanders. I do believe he would upgrade the RB room and would love to have him.

 

That said, our offense doesn't believe the RB position exists. We DO have checkdown options (Beasley and Knox fill this role in many plays). We also have a offensive coordinator that hates calling run plays unless it's a QB run. Motor is averaging a sleek 5.2 yards a carry. That's not bad at all. But we go long stretches where it's all pass all the time...except for a few Allen deaigned runs in there. And a lot of the run plays that do happen take place because Allen audibles into them. 

 

I would love to have Sanders but I feel like he would be another toy that Daboll wouldn't use.

[DeltaDigital]

We're the only team in the league that cant execute a RB screen. It's utterly ridiculous. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

I'm sorry this is on 17. One of the reasons we beat KC is because he threw it to Moss a ton. It kept the D honest and moved the chains. Hero ball came back in the 4th qtr against TEN and cost us a chance to ice it. 

[Apocalypse Nuts]

Personally, I think the OP has a good point.  Josh is always looking to push the ball down field, and I don't mind that at all really.  It's really fun to watch.  But everyone knows that about him so the defenses are obviously always trying to stop that.  One would think that would naturally open up the little dump offs to the RB's a lot more.  Would it not make sense to check down more often and use that to try to open up the longer passes?  So often it looks like the RB's are open or at least only covered by one guy at the most.  Why not hit look downfield then hit the RB right away and have them make a guy miss and try and make a decent play?  Isn't that what Brady would do so much with all those pass catching RB's he had in NE?  It's probably not natural to Josh given his competitive nature and that Howitzer of a throwing arm he has.  But if it could actually help open up the longer plays......

[Solomon Grundy]

9 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Miles Sanders: 20.2 yards/game receiving

 

Zach Moss: 21.8 yards/game receiving

 

 

The guy in Philly don’t use Miles

1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said:

I love me some Miles Sanders. I do believe he would upgrade the RB room and would love to have him.

 

That said, our offense doesn't believe the RB position exists. We DO have checkdown options (Beasley and Knox fill this role in many plays). We also have a offensive coordinator that hates calling run plays unless it's a QB run. Motor is averaging a sleek 5.2 yards a carry. That's not bad at all. But we go long stretches where it's all pass all the time...except for a few Allen deaigned runs in there. And a lot of the run plays that do happen take place because Allen audibles into them. 

 

I would love to have Sanders but I feel like he would be another toy that Daboll wouldn't use.

Daboll likes to go back and replicate plays from Bills past a la Pittsburgh game 4th and 1. Why won’t he go back to Kelly era Bills and see how successfully they ran the screen pass with Thurman? Utilized him as a passing threat?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Moss:

 

Week 1: DNP

Week 2: 8

Week 3: 31

Week 4: 0

Week 5: 55

Week 6: 15

 

Motor:

 

Week 1: 8

Week 2: 9

Week 3: 0

Week 4: 7

Week 5: -2

Week 6: 16

 

 

Horrendous.  And I don't think it's just bc Josh is wired to take shots downfield.  Settling for the 2 FGs in the first quarter against the Titans this just seemed so glaring an issue.   

 

We all see what the defenses are doing.  2 deep.....rush only 4 or 3.  Make us dink and dunk.  

 

This becomes much easier if we have an outlet that's a bit more of a threat out of the backfield.  Of course a running game will also address that.  Especially in the green zone.  

 

I like Motor and Moss.  But I also want to win the SB.  If we can't utilize RBs in the run game and passing game we aren't helping ourselves - run game been ok...dual threat not remotely.  Of all the issues to address (there aren't many) this could be the most fixable.  The Patriots had White.  The Bucs have Fournette.  The Chargers Eckeler.  The Browns have Hunt.  You want this dimension of your offense to be legit.  Ours isn't.  I want the O to have this check down threat for Josh.  It isn't good enough.  

 

 

In short, go get Miles Sanders.

 

When you have 4 WR and TE who can likely gain more yards than the RB, more likely to throw to them.  Plus if running 3 WR and one TE on most plays and all going out into passing lanes, someone needs to stay in and block, particularly since O line isn't great.

 

 

10 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I don't understand why we don't give Bredia some reps on passing downs. Instead of making 3 rb's active we insist on having McKenzie and Kumerow active

(Who combined had 5 snaps vs the Titans!)

 

Yeah I agree, was hoping this year when they signed him for his speed, they'd make him active every week and have three RB available.

 

But we're not seeing him in practice either and maybe the player they see doesn't provide very much and if either RB were to get hurt and Breida was active, we'd be worse off.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

I'm sorry this is on 17. One of the reasons we beat KC is because he threw it to Moss a ton. It kept the D honest and moved the chains. Hero ball came back in the 4th qtr against TEN and cost us a chance to ice it. 

It's not on 17, as far as the RB targets are concerned, it's on your memory of the 2 games lol. What if I told you Josh threw more passes to the RBs in the Titans game than the KC game. Moss had 4 targets in both games while Singletary had 2 in the KC game and 5 in the Titans game. It's not that Moss had more targets against KC, it's that the plays had a bigger impact & were more successful. 

 

I think the success of throwing deep in the KC game might have got into Josh's head a bit, but then again against that Titans secondary it might have been the gameplan to attack them deep.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401326408

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401326422

 

[JGMcD2]

We need a guy like Cordarelle Patterson.  He’d be perfect in this offense and he’s really the only guy in the league who has been used this way. 
 

He can run the football but can also split out wide and function like another WR - because he is a WR being used as a RB. He’s also an All-Pro return man. You get a ton of value out of him. 
 

If we’re just running to keep the other team honest… have your running back be another WR. 

[BigDingus]

20 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Moss:

 

Week 1: DNP

Week 2: 8

Week 3: 31

Week 4: 0

Week 5: 55

Week 6: 15

 

Motor:

 

Week 1: 8

Week 2: 9

Week 3: 0

Week 4: 7

Week 5: -2

Week 6: 16

 

 

Horrendous. 

 

I know, if Tyrod was still QB these guys would be both be the team leaders in receptions & yards!

Bench Josh, trade for Tyrod, and let's get the RBs their catches dammit!

[ehfeuh57]

It is somewhat alarming how little its used.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

22 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I don't understand why we don't give Bredia some reps on passing downs. Instead of making 3 rb's active we insist on having McKenzie and Kumerow active

(Who combined had 5 snaps vs the Titans!)

 

Kumerow had 19 snaps vs the Titans.  McKenzie had 13 snaps vs. the Titans.  If our defense could have stopped the Titans, they would have had more.

 

Just because you don't count ST snaps, doesn't mean they don't count or that our coaches don't consider them

 

18 hours ago, motorj said:

The rb's always look open to me when watching, josh just doesn't usually go to them which isn't that much of a problem according to the scores

 

It was a problem a couple of times vs. the Titans and has been a problem in a couple of other games where we didn't have good success sustaining a drive.

 

There were times vs. the Titans when Moss had so much freakin' green around him he could have planted a Christmas tree farm.

[Chicken Boo]

From a talent perspective, I'd put Miles right behind Diggs as the 3rd best weapon.  Singletary and Moss ain't that, BUT Sanders value is dependent on how Daboll would use him and Buffalo doesn't have the greatest screen game. 

 

I feel his talent wouldn't be fully utilized here.

[Nelius]

It's kind of interesting when you pull up the backs that have the most receiving yards in the league right now -  a lot of them are on teams that aren't good.

 

D'Andre Swift? Patterson? McKissic? Wonder if there's some correlation with poorly functioning offenses and the need for a constant check-down option...

 

It is all about the offense agreed, so I feel like we need to now compare TE stats next, or WR 2 and 3 stats, or average rushing yards per carry, for this complaint to hold any water.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Nelius

[Nelius]

10 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

We need a guy like Cordarelle Patterson.  He’d be perfect in this offense and he’s really the only guy in the league who has been used this way. 
 

He can run the football but can also split out wide and function like another WR - because he is a WR being used as a RB. He’s also an All-Pro return man. You get a ton of value out of him. 

 

But in all fairness outside of his return skills, it either took Cordarelle himself and/or the entire league multiple years to figure out that he can contribute like he currently is on offense. The guy was an afterthought on the Pats for example and even that was years ago. He's kind of a unicorn, so I don't know if you can just go get a guy like that. Who's another solid return man that could potentially harness serious offensive skills 8 years into their career? I think our best shot at anything like that is probably McKenzie.

[DrPJax]

On 10/23/2021 at 4:31 AM, motorj said:

The rb's always look open to me when watching, josh just doesn't usually go to them which isn't that much of a problem according to the scores

It is when you’ve lost two games already to talent inferior teams. Was 31 points enough, or 20?  The problem is too many points are still being left on the field , and Most of that is on Josh. As Jonn Fina just said on his podcast w Joe miller , Josh is looking off many wide open shorter route receivers, and esp did that during the Titans game.  Yes his completion % was high at 77% or so , but there is no reason it could not have been 80% or more, and it cost us two fg in the red zone early. If we get tds there , 14-0 , makes it harder to keep using Henry.   It felt like Josh wanted to prove he was the qb to expose the backup cbs of the Titans deep , ( Finas assessment, who btw is excellent to understand our line play and game plans in general) , rather than go to frequently open receivers like the backs.  The next ti the last drive while leading and a chance to go up 2 scores was an example of hero Josh mindset rearing it’s head and he should be past that in his 4 th year now. He is capable of better , like against the WFT, and he has been great against weak teams with big margins fir error ( KC was a good game against a horrible defense )   Just need him to take the open backs when there during playoff time and not contribute to losing any more winnable games that will put us on the road for the playoffs

 

Josh is an amazing talent, he just needs to remember it’s not all about going deep, it’s about efficiency and scoring and getting the backs involved adds another red zone threat. Will admit tho , I don’t trust motor very much in the passing game yet. I also think Daboll need to simplify all the packages in the red zone. No consistent identity and it seems no one is getting consistent reps to become proficient yet. Check out Finas podcast, it’s new, well done. Off tackle with John Fina I think! His rookie year was super bowl 27 in Pasadena. He was only called for 7 holding penalties in 9 years with the Bills, something amazing and proves how good technique is lacking on our current line! It’s a stat he is very proud of ! 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

On 10/23/2021 at 12:10 PM, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

It's not on 17, as far as the RB targets are concerned, it's on your memory of the 2 games lol. What if I told you Josh threw more passes to the RBs in the Titans game than the KC game. Moss had 4 targets in both games while Singletary had 2 in the KC game and 5 in the Titans game. It's not that Moss had more targets against KC, it's that the plays had a bigger impact & were more successful. 

 

I think the success of throwing deep in the KC game might have got into Josh's head a bit, but then again against that Titans secondary it might have been the gameplan to attack them deep.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401326408

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore/_/gameId/401326422

 

On point assessment 👌 Nice job

[Mr. WEO]

Only chumps dump it off to RBs.  Go downfield...

[Hebert19]

On 10/22/2021 at 11:38 PM, Big Blitz said:

Moss:

 

Week 1: DNP

Week 2: 8

Week 3: 31

Week 4: 0

Week 5: 55

Week 6: 15

 

Motor:

 

Week 1: 8

Week 2: 9

Week 3: 0

Week 4: 7

Week 5: -2

Week 6: 16

 

 

Horrendous.  And I don't think it's just bc Josh is wired to take shots downfield.  Settling for the 2 FGs in the first quarter against the Titans this just seemed so glaring an issue.   

 

We all see what the defenses are doing.  2 deep.....rush only 4 or 3.  Make us dink and dunk.  

 

This becomes much easier if we have an outlet that's a bit more of a threat out of the backfield.  Of course a running game will also address that.  Especially in the green zone.  

 

I like Motor and Moss.  But I also want to win the SB.  If we can't utilize RBs in the run game and passing game we aren't helping ourselves - run game been ok...dual threat not remotely.  Of all the issues to address (there aren't many) this could be the most fixable.  The Patriots had White.  The Bucs have Fournette.  The Chargers Eckeler.  The Browns have Hunt.  You want this dimension of your offense to be legit.  Ours isn't.  I want the O to have this check down threat for Josh.  It isn't good enough.  

 

 

In short, go get Miles Sanders.

I love moss as a receiver.  Need to use him more. 

[Don Otreply]

On 10/23/2021 at 1:31 AM, motorj said:

The rb's always look open to me when watching, josh just doesn't usually go to them which isn't that much of a problem according to the scores

It’s not a problem per say, as you pointed out, but mixing it up is a good thing, as to keeping the Defenses guessing, that and Josh by and large throws one of the ugliest screen passes in the league, if we are being honest about it, he’s not very good at it, timing and ball placement wise, that -2 yard screen pass to Singletary was particularly ugly, and is why Motor was tackled for a loss on that play, just more refinement in Josh’s game that could stand to be worked on. I am certain Josh is painfully aware of this short coming in his game. 

 

Go Bills!!!

[LABILLBACKER]

Singletary has terrible hands and his career receiving stats reflect that. Moss is at least serviceable. Neither RB amazes but neither does our pathetic run blocking. For the Bills to be truly a SB contender they must fix this issue eventually?.....Ya think

10 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

It’s not a problem per say, as you pointed out, but mixing it up is a good thing, as to keeping the Defenses guessing, that and Josh by and large throws one of the ugliest screen passes in the league, if we are being honest about it, he’s not very good at it, timing and ball placement wise, that -2 yard screen pass to Singletary was particularly ugly, and is why Motor was tackled for a loss on that play, just more refinement in Josh’s game that could stand to be worked on. I am certain Josh is painfully aware of this short coming in his game. 

 

Go Bills!!!

Couldn't agree more....it looks like a damn shot put...what is he doing?

[DCofNC]

On 10/24/2021 at 6:02 AM, DrPJax said:

It is when you’ve lost two games already to talent inferior teams. Was 31 points enough, or 20?  The problem is too many points are still being left on the field , and Most of that is on Josh. As Jonn Fina just said on his podcast w Joe miller , Josh is looking off many wide open shorter route receivers, and esp did that during the Titans game.  Yes his completion % was high at 77% or so , but there is no reason it could not have been 80% or more, and it cost us two fg in the red zone early. If we get tds there , 14-0 , makes it harder to keep using Henry.   It felt like Josh wanted to prove he was the qb to expose the backup cbs of the Titans deep , ( Finas assessment, who btw is excellent to understand our line play and game plans in general) , rather than go to frequently open receivers like the backs.  The next ti the last drive while leading and a chance to go up 2 scores was an example of hero Josh mindset rearing it’s head and he should be past that in his 4 th year now. He is capable of better , like against the WFT, and he has been great against weak teams with big margins fir error ( KC was a good game against a horrible defense )   Just need him to take the open backs when there during playoff time and not contribute to losing any more winnable games that will put us on the road for the playoffs

 

Josh is an amazing talent, he just needs to remember it’s not all about going deep, it’s about efficiency and scoring and getting the backs involved adds another red zone threat. Will admit tho , I don’t trust motor very much in the passing game yet. I also think Daboll need to simplify all the packages in the red zone. No consistent identity and it seems no one is getting consistent reps to become proficient yet. Check out Finas podcast, it’s new, well done. Off tackle with John Fina I think! His rookie year was super bowl 27 in Pasadena. He was only called for 7 holding penalties in 9 years with the Bills, something amazing and proves how good technique is lacking on our current line! It’s a stat he is very proud of ! 

You are going to get lit up for saying Josh isn’t playing the best he can, but you are exactly right.

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, DCofNC said:

You are going to get lit up for saying Josh isn’t playing the best he can, but you are exactly right.

 

 

nope.  

 

Has anyone here said Allen is playing the best he can?

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

nope.  

 

Has anyone here said Allen is playing the best he can?

Yeah would I'dlike to think he always plays the best he can and gives all he's got on the field. Just because everything doesn't go as planned and/or a mistake or miscommunication etc doesn't mean he's not doing the best he can. lol

[In Summary]

The problem is that this not passing to RBs makes Buffalo predictable. RBs won't be running around anyone to the outside coupled with not being significant receiver threats. A few more effective passes per game to the RBs could loosen the deeper downfield coverages. This is a good week for the Bills to experiment and develop this part of their offense but I think Daboll/Allen will try and set passing records instead.